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2:04 PM
4-way multiplexer still hasn't loaded into my domino program, I might have to manually edit the file and feed it straight into the command line one, I might have not told the GUI to not try to print dominoes that arn't on screen
 
@Rainbolt?!
hai :D
 
HE'S BACK!
 
at first i was gonna post ":O" but then i didn't
2
 
0
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIV

William BarbosaGolf a Venn Diagram generator In order to properly celebrate John Venn's 180th birthday, today your task will be creating a program that outputs a Venn Diagram based on user input. Input: The user will input three sets. Use stdin (or whatever your language's equivalent is) to get the values. Y...

 
2:09 PM
Are you guys Rainbolt's personal fanclub?
 
@overactor <333
 
personal harem?
 
:S
lol
eheheh, quiet in here for such a big event happening
rainbolt is back
 
He hasn't said much since he's gotten back though
maybe it's just an alien inhabiting his skin account
 
@overactor maybe this is one giant buildup for a bad "raining on your parade" pun
 
2:13 PM
I'm starting to think maybe the domino playground has died, because the printer managed to create a dictionary of dictionaries of the same data in less than 3minutes, and this has taken over 5minutes to /not/ read the same data into a fixed size array
 
in chat it's a giant octopus 3 dashes
 
Thanks
 
:D
 
Ah, Sparr, just who I was looking for
 
good morning
 
2:15 PM
good morning!
 
@Sparr Good morning!
 
How does select.poll and interruptingcow.timeout fix the IO issues?
 
wow it's full in here... I'm starting to feel claustrophobic
 
@MartinB├╝ttner so many people, so few messages
 
@NathanMerrill the select.poll MIGHT be redundant with simply having the timeout. I didn't test what happens if you just wrap write and readline in a timeout.
 
2:18 PM
ah ok
well, if it doesn't throw any errors, that's awesome
 
all three of my example bots that I posted work fine with my controller :)
 
also, I totally didn't expect it to get so popular
 
including the IO changes and a few fixes to match your spec
 
I saw that, thanks for the fixes :P
 
Oh hey guys
 
2:19 PM
Hi @Rainbolt
 
@Rainbolt yes, hello
 
you should edit your post to remove mention of sending the maze size, or change your controller to send the maze size
 
welcome back! ;)
 
Your harem has been awaiting your return
it seems
 
@Rainbolt Hi!
 
2:19 PM
Yea, I'm back. But I wish I wasn't. I would rather still be here.
 
;o
 
also, I've encountered one maze with a closed room in it. something is wrong with your generation algorithm. I was not able to suss out the problem.
 
a completely closed room?
or 3 sides?
 
it wasn't just one square
it was a room of perhaps 10 squares
 
oh, I know why that happens...
 
2:20 PM
in the top left corner of the maze
 
@Rainbolt Can't tell whether those are buildings or just really improbable litter.
 
@Trimsty Tents
 
@Rainbolt oh so both!
 
And umbrellas too I guess
And fat people
 
@NathanMerrill I keep getting confused about the coordinate system and the map sending at the beginning. Something is weird there.
 
2:22 PM
@Rainbolt the legendary fatmen
 
I'm going to track that down now
 
sending the coordinates step by step is intense code
 
so i was trying to write a search engine the other day and I didn't know what sorting algorithm to use, so I wrote a random expression generator and a bunch of unit tests to score a sorting expression, and ran it repeatedly
 
@NathanMerrill could I convince you to put the controller on github so I can fork it and send you pull requests with improvements?
 
Yeah, I use Git all the time
 
2:24 PM
even if it's just a gist and not a full project
 
@Trimsty did it start selling advertising space?
 
@Trimsty What language?
 
YES, the random paintings have finally caught up with mandelbrot!
 
@githubphagocyte i didn't run it long enough ;3
@Rainbolt Python as usual
 
@Sparr, what confuses you about it?
 
2:27 PM
@Trimsty What do you need a custom sorting algorithm for?
 
@Rainbolt it's a web search engine :P
 
@NathanMerrill you send the map columns first! I can't figure out how/why in the controller code, but you do
somewhere there's a x,y / y,x mistake in the controller
 
I just ran the gen and it made this, among a bunch of others;
e-(d-(((((a+a)^(~b^(((f+f)+(d-(b+a)))+(c*e))))-b)*b)//-b))|-a
a, b, c, d, e, and f would be things like exact word count, document html conformance, measured visual appeal, mobile functionality score etc
 
hehehe
I'll fix it
 
X,Y coords are sent correctly
but the full grid at the beginning is sent transposed
 
2:31 PM
wait...I do?
 
`c//(-e*d)^((a+(e^c))&-b)`
looks complicated :D
wait a sec, wth me? I can use this for the tweet art popcon!
 
yes. I just confirmed it by having the controller print to stdout the messages it sends to bots
then actually looking at the first message and comparing it to the actual maze on screen
 
@trimsty I'm sure those numbers mean something meaningful but the expression is too long for me to understand :(
 
Sidenote. I love pip
 
@Rainbolt ;_;
it also generates stuff like c**e and -b xD
 
2:34 PM
That's good
 
i just pick the long ones to show off, yay
 
You should Google hubs and authorities (but be sure to rename it to f and g)
 
the code's pretty simple
@Rainbolt HITS?
 
Yea
 
@Trimsy, have your code generate a scoring method every time you have to sort something.
Fun times guaranteed.
 
2:36 PM
ooooh yes.
I can call it the "engine"
because it doesn't actually search
 
Consistency is for wusses.
 
Then there's the problem that my code might raise errors such as using a binary operator on a float or dividing by 0
 
put it in a try block
if you catch an error, generate a random score
Between the lowest and highest score so far.
 
@overactor that's genius!
 
@Trimsty It'll be better than bing, that much is clear at this point.
 
2:39 PM
@Sparr are you on Python 3?
 
@overactor ;3
 
@NathanMerrill 2.7
 
my select doesn't have a poll() function
self.pollin = select.poll()
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'poll'
I'm on 2.7 as well
 
are you on OSX?
 
no
Win8
ah, I have to be Unix
 
2:42 PM
damn. might not work on file handles there. you could try ditching the select stuff, and just relying on interruptingcow to deal with timeouts during reads and writes
interruptingcow uses SIG_ALRM which should get captured even during those blocking IO activities.
 
except...
current = signal.getsignal(signal.SIGALRM)
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SIGALRM'
 
ok, if you don't even have process signals then I don't know what to say :|
 
well, good news
I have linux box
 
ok, I'm just having maze_desc() do a maze_transposed = zip(*self.square.maze.grid) before sending out the maze, and that solves the x,y problem
you know your code better than I do, so maybe you can solve it deeper
 
no, I think I found the bug
I pass in the coordinates in the wrong order to the square
so every square has y,x instead of x,y
...though...maybe that was right
I can't run the code yet though
 
2:48 PM
just swapping the coords in the constructor for the square in the grid doesn't fix it, and leads to one-way walls :p
 
well, I'm ok for hotfixes
 
While there are a couple of Python 2.7 programmers here, what are your reasons for using 2 rather than 3? I started learning 3 but I've noticed 2 is still used a lot.
 
...because its more widely used and supported
many modules don't work with 3 yet
 
Ah I see. I haven't used many external modules yet so I haven't run into that problem.
 
and it's difficult to install both on my machine (at least, my win8 machine)
 
2:51 PM
If you could have one external module ported from 2 to 3, which would you choose?
 
eh, I don't consistently use one module
Pacman uses pygame which isn't 3 yet
 
I haven't encountered a python3 programmer in the real world yet
all the professional encountered with python I've had have been 2, including this year and last month
 
@NathanMerrill your trader's sandbox game, it says near the top that "Each year, you will consume 2 of each product.", but further down it says "After all trades are over, or after you have left the market, you will consume 1 of each product, and the year starts over."
 
@Sparr Our testing department uses python 3 to run automated tests
 
@Rainbolt of python code?
 
2:58 PM
No
 
@NathanMerrill also, ghost eating scoring has to drop. the exponential growth leads to ridiculous scores occasionally
 
it doesn't seem to suggest another time for the other units to be consumed (before the trading after production perhaps?)
 
such as 400k points in an environment where 99% of the time it scores 1k-2k
 
@VisualMelon thanks
@Sparr, I'm going to max it at 1600
mmm
maybe I'll just do 200
 
200 per ghost seems reasonable
my code in shortsighted.py assumes that :)
also, tiny bug: if the last ghost gets eaten, the match never ends
I saw that happen on a map with just one pacman
 
3:02 PM
...that's not true...
if all the pellets are gone, it should end
 
oh, maybe I didn't wait long enough for that to happen
my bots aren't really smart yet
I just wanted to put some working bots out there for people to test against
 
@Sparr, on that topic
My python turned out to be too bad
I'll try and put something together in java
 
@overactor I think you should move the dogfight chat back to here, segregating the room isn't helping visibility
 
Good point
Maybe move it back if it really takes off?
 
maybe
 
3:08 PM
I can't edit my comment, can I?
Should I just mention that people can ask for help in the chat here in the question?
I've got to go home
I'll be back in a while
 
make a new comment, and change the description of the dogfight room to indicate it's deprecated in favor of here
 
bah
Pygame is not wanting to be installed on my linux
 
I had similar trouble
numpy wouldn't compile because of a problem with gfortran
 
numpy has a fortran dependency?
 
apparently
specifically, compiling numpy has a fortran compiler dependency
I don't think numpy uses fortran in operation
 
3:26 PM
and, apparently pygame needs gcc
 
that one didn't surprise me at all
I had to compile SDL
 
yeah, so did I
and now, Python.h
 
I find it humorous that my undefined behavior entry is my highest score on tweetable mathematical art
 
Welcome to pop-cons ;)
 
hey hey guys hey
i updated my profile xD
 
3:41 PM
@githubphagocyte where are you from where they spell it "minimising"?
 
@Malachi I'm glad you spotted that - I was looking around for a way to mention it to you. I have no problem with any dialect of English being used, I'm just not going to approve an edit to change from the OP's dialect. I approved everything else in the edit though.
 
I think that the meaning is completely different, I am looking for it in a reputable dictionary (online) right now.
 
It's the original spelling of the word - minimize is just a 'recent' change
There is no difference in meaning
 
As Texorama on the Internet would say, "Sí, "minimise" (como otros ejemplos de palabras con "-ize/-ise") se usa en UK, "minimze" en USA. En Canada, aunque se usan allá unas formas británicas, es "minimize.""
Which roughly translates to "British people use 'minimise'. Americans and Canadians use 'minimize'."
 
Either is fine, and neither should cause any confusion. I only rejected that aspect of the edit because it could lead to an edit war back and forth. I'm just leaving it in the dialect of the OP
 
3:46 PM
I can find the first known usage date of Minimize but not Minimise
 
@Malachi I could be wrong - sometimes the US usage is the older, and the UK usage is a modern variation
Both started from a common root dialect and diverged gradually
 
this says origin 1795-1805 and minim(um) + -ize
 
Looks like minimize has always been dominant, at least in the books Google knows about since the 1800s
2
 
3:48 PM
Regardless of which is the older, my decision was based purely on the choice of the OP.
The history is interesting though - thank you :)
 
does this fall under the notion that this is an american website and that the language is (American) English?
 
Even within America language varies widely (not just dialect).
Even within the USA several dialects of English are in use, and several non-English languages
 
the General Consensus on StackExchange is that the language is English and that we should not accept if the question/answer is not legible to an English speaking person...
 
I agree that confusion should be avoided. If I thought the word was obscure I would have supported the edit.
 
39
Q: What should the standard spelling be - British or US?

Simon P StevensI just saw someone edit the title of this question to change the spelling from favourite (The British spelling) to favorite (The US-English spelling). Does SOFU have an accepted standard on language and spelling? Which is it?

2
 
3:51 PM
Just a minor spelling difference I don't see as a problem.
 
^
 
thanks @Rainbolt
For tags that makes perfect sense - otherwise we'd need loads of synonyms
 
Haha yes
 
The searchability point is interesting
 
Colors/Colours
 
3:53 PM
okay, sounds good to me. the only reason that I changed it is because I thought it was misspelled
 
@Malachi I didn't have any problem with you suggesting it - that's why I wanted to find a way to tell you so you didn't think I had a problem with your spelling of it
 
Idea: A search engine that removes all instances of u from both queries and crawl data, called "irishbandssuck"
 
I just didn't want to start something that could go back and for
 
you won't have grammar issues then ;D
 
Some common variations are synonyms already. For example, "colour" (both plural and singular) synonyms to "colors" on SO.
 
3:55 PM
Synonyms aren't a bad thing either. They serve as signs that point people in the right direction
 
@Sparr created on github
 
@NathanMerrill yay
 
I'd imagine most common ones have already come up and been implemented, so the "ton of synonyms" thing isn't much of an argument.
 
we'll get this thing working right, yet!
 
and installed on my linux machine
 
3:56 PM
I don't want to see pacman languish like dogfight did :(
 
@Rainbolt not necessarily, because there's no hint at the synonym until you post the challenge and the tag gets renamed silently
 
getting a solid controller published early seems important
 
(that's why we ditched the regex-golf synonym)
 
The search engine point also doesn't really matter for common synonyms, as most search engines will find colour given color, and vice versa
 
3:56 PM
@MartinB├╝ttner I'm talking about for future visitors. They search for the synonym and get redirected
 
aaaaand my mom forwards an article about a 12-year-old who made a game to me and expects me not to rage at her
 
oh for the search, yes
 
@githubphagocyte If they're using SO search it matters. Maybe Google can handle language variances, but...
 
I heard the same argument for closed as duplicate questions remaining closed and NOT deleted. They serve as signposts to point people to the original. Deleting the duplicate only serves to delete the breadcrumb trail for future visitors
 
@Geobits good point. I do sometimes use that too.
 
3:57 PM
@Rainbolt oh yes definitely
 
@Rainbolt I make the same argument for "bad" answers, too.
Downvote over delete in most cases.
 
well i only just got the privilege to start really moderating so i wouldn't know about these things ;D
 
@Sparr, I made you a collaborator
 
@Geobits with answers I keep forgetting that because I can still see them :D
 
Yea, it's funny that the people that don't need to be reminded/shown why answers get deleted are the only ones who can see them :)
 

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