The Nineteenth Byte - 2022-09-17

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2:14 AM

Do we have any consensus on answers whose validity is not known?

(extreme example) say I had an answer that only worked if the collatz conjecture was true, would it be valid?

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA Yes: if you can't prove it valid, it isn't valid

Lemme find the meta consensus

17

A: Do we really want to delete undecidable answers, even if they were declared non-competing?

Yes Non-competing doesn't allow an answer to do what it wants, and not meet the questions specifications. If a question has a specific scoring system, answers whose scores can't be calculated shouldn't be marked non-competing, they should be removed from the question. In short, if I posted an ans...

Even if you can't prove it invalid?

caird coinheringaahing

Taking your Collatz example, I'd say that it should be deleted, and, if even proven to be valid, flag for undeletion

It isn't perfect with such "conditional" answers, but I like to err on the site of caution and only allow answers that are proven to be valid

@peterh if it can't provably complete the task, and can't have an objective, determinable score, it isn't a valid answer — caird coinheringaahing Sep 24, 2017 at 16:19

2 hours later…

caird coinheringaahing

3:52 AM

CMC: Given n, and assuming Collatz, output the largest value in the Collatz chain of n

example?

caird coinheringaahing

14 -> 52

4:23 AM

@cairdcoinheringaahing ngn/k, 26 bytes: |/{x>1}{$[2!x;1+3*x;x%2]}\

@thejonymyster it's outside the codepage

@Adám yes, 1,2 -> (1 2)

@Neil oh oops forgot to negate ⁿ lol

$(-2)^{-n}$

@thejonymyster they render for me

CMC Given a year as input, print “God save the King” or “God save the Queen” as appropriate.

4:50 AM

-1

Q: God Save the King (or Queen)!

Input A calendar year from 927 to the present year. For example 2022. Output “God Save the King!” or “God Save the Queen!” depending on which was right in England on the first day of that year. If there was no King or Queen on that date, your code can output anything that is not one of those two ...

~~vtc as dupe~~

@NewPosts rip deleted by author lol

@AidenChow it was about to be closed :(

Why is codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721 so terrible?

@emanresuA ah yes …I hope you don’t mind

@graffe one problem i see is that most ppl will probably find it more convenient to have all the years which have kings/queens all compiled into one list, preferably in the question body itself, or at least provide a link to such a list.

@AidenChow lazy toads but ok

5:04 AM

@graffe The reason I posted it as a CMC was that I thought it wouldn't make a good challenge.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Huh, I was thinking about this exact idea a few days ago.

-2

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Title God Save the Queen (or King)! Input A calendar year from 927 to the present year. For example 2022. Output “God Save the King!” or “God Save the Queen!” depending on which was right in England on the first day of that year. If there was no King or Queen on that date, your code can output an...

5:27 AM

@emanresuA why wouldn’t it make a good challenge?

5:42 AM

@AidenChow dates added

It must be perfect now :)

5:55 AM

@lyxal Uh, hate to break it to you but your CMC is actually 51 shades of gray. "Git rekt nerd" or something like that.

@graffe i cant guess as to why emanresu thinks its not a good challenge, but for me, i feel like the challenge might come down someone figuring out some "black magic formula" that will somehow distinguish between the two different types of years, which has been done many times before already and isnt anything particularly new (interesting and ingenious for sure though, dont get me wrong :P).

^

or maybe some compression shenanigans that will somehow store which years is which type, but compression has already been seen in a bunch of other kc challenges and this doesnt seem to add anything new to that aspect as well.

now that i think about, its kinda like decision-problem but with an annoying output format

like instead of outputting truthy/falsey value for if its a king or not, you have to output "God Save the (King/Queen)!"

@AidenChow you can of course compress the two strings

So it’s not ground breaking….but I still hope it’s fun!

It’s such a simple question I might post it soon unless anyone has any improvement suggestions

6:13 AM

@graffe i highly suggest that you leave it in the sandbox for at least 2 or 3 more days, especially since ur sandbox post has a negative score rn, which will only be amplified on main

@AidenChow ok…I think the negative score was due to not having listed the dates

But I’ll leave it there for at least 24 more hours

It has to be posted before Monday of course

6:41 AM

@DLosc git: 'rekt' is not a git command. See 'git --help'.

CMP: How about ‟ for a comment character?

Unrelated String

kinda counterintuitive

also what kind of language

flax

@UnrelatedString it looks like you are quoting something

‟ Sum of n terms of the series:
‟      1-½+¼-⅛+···
‟ nth term is just (-½)ⁿ
Σ¯.*ι

6:57 AM

Vim uses " for comments

i use " for string delimeters

Unrelated String

it's still precedent for ‟ making sense

2 hours later…

9:23 AM

code-golf question rules are very strict!

9:50 AM

Why does codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/251885 have an undelete vote?

idk

OPs can't do that rihgt?

1 hour later…

11:10 AM

Can't wait to get 10K to have opinions on these things

11:21 AM

how much rep you have now

wait you only got 2k?

I only started actively participating recently

same

my first question, people were like, what was that and all

so was kind of discouraged

so... yeah, joined back in summer vacation

It's a lot easier to gain rep here than on SO though so I think this will overtake my SO rep soon even though I started here much later

guesso

i joined SO recently

to answer a question

that later got closed

@py3programmer A question being closed is great for answers. No possible competition

11:28 AM

true

but my rep is frozen

at 101

Sad

cuz i dont have much more to do there

than here

11:44 AM

@emanresuA apparently they can?

@py3programmer heh i have less than 2k and i have been here for 1 year and 4 months

12:33 PM

I guess having py in your name isn't great for rep

2 hours later…

2:14 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal, 10 bytes: ‡₍½‡T›iİJG

uses a neat little 8 byte collatz snippet written by lynn

1 hour later…

3:43 PM

ugh, why does git stash push -k save the changes in the index

4:26 PM

any comments on my simple challenge ? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721

4:40 PM

@user hi

@user did I misunderstand xnor's advice?

I guess I can change it so that you choose what you want to output

@graffe i think what xnor expects is something like "two distinct values to denote king/queen"

@graffe yeah this or boolean probably

@Razetime right.. actually three distinct values in my case. I'll do that later

thanks

ah three

@graffe when will you upload a profile picture?

@graffe I know it was previously more fun, but it's currently still a fixed string that isn't even fun

4:44 PM

@mousetail thousands of people on this site use an identicon

I know and it makes it hard to recognize them

That's actually what graffe looks in real life

graffe is actually a graph, plotted in Desmos, come to life

@mousetail then use their name to recognize them

@Razetime There's a ton of people with very similar names though

^^ pfps can be hard to tell apart too

4:46 PM

@user Does that mean Desmos is a void which spits out life?

@mousetail You can use custom CSS to make the usernames' font size larger, perhaps?

@user You both have the most generic name and PFP :/

@mousetail that's a you problem :)

@mousetail That's the point :)

I know but it's annoying because whenever I see user353215 talking or something I think it's you

4:47 PM

user is the most creative epic person in the world

Yes, my real life name is actually Original Original Original VI

Anyway, you won't have to bother with distinguishing me from others much longer, I'm probably leaving CGCC today

da what

What why?

@user cya

o/

@mousetail Being a dramatic emo

4:48 PM

lol dramatic exit

user will be replaced with a newer model

Maybe "Participant"

Or "Customer"

5:25 PM

@user I understand now

@mousetail what do you suggest?

@graffe Search "graffe" on google and use the first image result

Radvylf Programs

user image

This is what I get, apparently it's a type of Italian pastry

Actually those look pretty good, would be a solid pfp

@mousetail don't I have to worry about licensing?

They do look great

@graffe I don't think SO cares

pfp?

@mousetail :)

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25123/108721 must be perfect now

Radvylf Programs

5:28 PM

@graffe Short for Profile Picture

I have followed all my instructions :)

@RadvylfPrograms thanks. What is the long one?

(sorry)

Radvylf Programs

What long one

@RadvylfPrograms you said it was Short for Profile Picture

It was a weak joke and I apologized for that immediately

Radvylf Programs

ohh lol

:)

@user is it better now?

5:43 PM

oops i missed the ping sorry

@mousetail hi

@att Hi

@RadvylfPrograms done

I have never had a profile picture before. It's a revolution!

All revolutions that don't involve guiotines are good revolutions

Radvylf Programs

Idk, depends on who you're guillotining

I think in any revolution I'd be the one they'd be guillotining since I'm always a bit contrarian

5:55 PM

@mousetail this sounds very french

Also I hate the french

@mousetail thanks! :)

They have the worst language

@mousetail that's why you will be guillotined!

@mousetail in what sense? Worse than C?

Let me strech my neck first

5:56 PM

:)

@graffe Only in french can more than half the letters be silent

and the actual sound have no relation at all to the spelling

@mousetail whitespace?

@mousetail try danish! It's unreadable

@graffe At least the letters correspond roughly to sounds

I know there was the whole german vs swedish spelling thing if I'm correct

@mousetail maybe but which sounds? There is no way to guess in Danish

Are you danish?

If not I'll make something up

otherwise I'll need to do some research

5:58 PM

I mean just look at babbel.com/en/magazine/danish-pronunciation

@mousetail no but I lived there for 6 months and still couldn't read anything out loud

Ok Danish is terrible too

"The discrepancy between what’s written and what’s actually said is difficult for many learners to grasp"

Can we all just speak Spanish?

"“But what’s with all the extra letters? Don’t you have to pronounce them?” The discrepancy between what’s written and what’s actually said is difficult for many learners to grasp"

Of all languages I know it has the most consistent spelling

Esperanto?

Esperato is good too I hear but I don't know much about it

6:00 PM

It's the future... Well it is always the future

Italian is pretty phonetic too

I think latin languages in general are ok

Except french!

French is germanic right?

Which is oddly physically between Italy and Spain

@mousetail "French is a Romance language (meaning that it is descended primarily from Vulgar Latin) that evolved out of the Gallo-Romance dialects spoken in northern France"

It's Latin, just difficult

Damn such a good family then to ruin it like that

a shame

6:03 PM

Every family has one difficult relative

True

nah Latin was already the worst

Radvylf Programs

Latin's at least pronounced pretty normally

okay true

@mathcat will your language hatred ever end??

What about English? That's a pretty weird language when it comes to pronunciation

Radvylf Programs

6:11 PM

English is even worse than French

Since it takes all of the weirdness of over a dozen languages and combines it

French at least sounds cool

Radvylf Programs

Including French itself

why not learn chinese

you can have lots of fun trying to guess pronunciations

I love guessing games!!!

We could have a "what rhymes with" challenge but with only Chinese characters

Just to make things easy :)

6:23 PM

hi

Hello!

at least chinese grammar isn't all that cringe compared to like, french, cuz you don't have to deal with conjugations lol

(or maybe i just think that cuz i speak it. who knows)

I don't know any chinese!

is rhyming a big thing in chinese (as it is in English)?

6:50 PM

hmm. i'm not actually sure, like poetry definitely exists obviously but i'm not sure if rhyming is as valued

there definitely is rhyming i'm just not sure how prevalent of a thing it is in like literature

does the poetry often rhyme?

> Traditional forms of Chinese poetry are rhymed (Wikipedia)

seems like it lol

> Traditional forms of Chinese poetry are rhymed, however the mere rhyming of text may not qualify literature as being poetry; and, as well, the lack of rhyme would not necessarily disqualify a modern work from being considered poetry, in the sense of modern Chinese poetry.

that sounds much like English

yep

@mousetail Fig and Vyxal also have their own sites

7:03 PM

@Seggan Yea so does CellTail

@hyper-neutrino grammatically it's very similar to english, actually

that's true. i only noticed that somewhat recently (like a year or two ago?) but a lot of simpler sentences are almost word-for-word when you translate them lol

13

A: Are there poems in Chinese that rhyme?

This question really surprises me. Since you mentioned 李白 and 杜甫, clearly you were talking about classical Chinese poetry. Classical Chinese poetry is so into rhymes and rhythms that it is almost unhealthy. There are volumes of books written on rhymes and rhythms of classical Chinese poetry. Aski...

> It would probably be more difficult to write such poems, due to the lack of available syllables

would you not expect the opposite

7:31 PM

@att That is surprising, given how poorly Chinese seems to always be translated into English

Unrelated String

rhyming? in a language family most of the history of which was reconstructed from rhyming dictionaries? impossible

Is it that chinese speakers tend not to understand or remember english conjugations?

Unrelated String

chinese definitely does a lot of things differently from english grammatically
english is just closer to it in some general ways than it is to a lot of its close relatives in western europe

serial verb constructions and some of the ways of marking aspect seem kinda wild

7:46 PM

How would you do this in python? codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/251878/108721

@pxeger well the structure is often similar but like i said, there is a lack of conjugations, so going from chinese into english can be hard

also a lot of the common fails you see are just due to certain common phrases becoming strange when translated word for word

for example, 小心 means "be careful" but also means "be careful of", so for example 小心的开车 means "drive carefully" but 小心滑倒 means "be careful of slipping and falling", but if you translate it literally you might get "be careful while slipping and falling", thus giving you something like

user image

which I always find pretty funny

lol

Anyone else see an unviewable user user1717218 appear in chat?

caird coinheringaahing

Low rep users do that

Ah, I found chat.stackexchange.com/faq#avatar

8:00 PM

@pxeger Yeah, that made me lose 2 hours of my life I can never get back again

I was testing a bot with < 20 rep

8:36 PM

@hyper-neutrino 地 (:

Dang just how many of y’all speak and write Chinese here

i can't really read/write it lol

@hyper-neutrino oh but u were just typing Chinese and translating them?

well i can read/write a very small amount lol, just not familiar with the written language overall

i know how to speak it, so the words that i do know i can use

Ah makes sense

9:09 PM

On an unrelated note: How do people feel about me posting codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/25049/113573 ?

1 hour later…

Radvylf Programs

10:19 PM

→ 6 half-baked cookies moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

Radvylf Programs

10:32 PM

Okay I'm convinced Chrome is just messing with me

Now I can't get a file upload to work

Except it works fine if I copy the entire HTML file and click the file upload button there

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The Nineteenth Byte

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