The Nineteenth Byte

12:00 PM

>>> (-1)**(1/2)
(6.123233995736766e-17+1j)

UndoneStudios

oh I get it

__neg__ has high operator precedence

or is it low?

@mousetail what?

lyxal

@UndoneStudios this

PyGamer0

@UndoneStudios lower than power

UndoneStudios

I can

PyGamer0

ninja'd

UndoneStudios

12:01 PM

not seem to understand high and low

caird coinheringaahing

Just a casual reminder that mods are obligated to report underage (16 in EU, 13 most everywhere else) users to staff if users reveal that they are underage

mousetail

@UndoneStudios High but ** is even higher

UndoneStudios

@cairdcoinheringaahing I see

well gtg bye

lyxal

@UndoneStudios higher precedence means it's evaluated first (think PEDMAS/BODMAS but with a much longer acronym for all the different python operators)

mousetail

You can have some of my age

UndoneStudios

12:03 PM

@mousetail no way

caird coinheringaahing

And also, the general security concept of not revealing personal information online is always good to remember

mousetail

Caird specifically can't be trusted knowing anything

caird coinheringaahing

That's true, I'm like the fae. Tell me anything about yourself, and I'll steal it and it becomes mine now

someoneinexistence

@caird I'm watching the world cup

it's yours now, so you have to watch it too!

UndoneStudios

@cairdcoinheringaahing what?

someoneinexistence

12:05 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHA

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have student debt

enjoy the loan repayments and interest due on said loans, nerd :p

mousetail

I have a couch I need to get rid of

someoneinexistence

Is it comfy?

UndoneStudios

I've some money I could use to buy Apple iJuice

mousetail

Yes, it's quite nice but it's too big to fit up the staircase to my appartment

someoneinexistence

12:06 PM

BURN IT

mousetail

I may have no other choice

someoneinexistence

Is someone here good at puns?

UndoneStudios

I consider myself a total novice

someoneinexistence

Could you create a pun related to Braille? As in, a name?

UndoneStudios

what's a pun?

lyxal

12:08 PM

@someoneinexistence from your profile picture, I would assume that'd be you, and that you have a bone to pick with those who claim otherwise :p

mousetail

@UndoneStudios A word joke

someoneinexistence

megalovania begins playing

I was thinking... like... first name Blind.

It's a common enough last name.

UndoneStudios

I'm sweating from boredness

someoneinexistence

I'll make you unbowed.

mousetail

@UndoneStudios That doesn't sound healthy

3

someoneinexistence

12:09 PM

r

UndoneStudios

@mousetail it's not

Mithical

caird coinheringaahing

Exactly what I was thinking of :P

mousetail

Relatable

someoneinexistence

Mithical tell nobody about what I've been saying.

Especially not in the Puzzling SE chat.

mousetail

12:10 PM

I'm only / because the fae stole all my other ones

lyxal

the hell is the fae?

caird coinheringaahing

Why do you think I use he/she/they? I took them all

UndoneStudios

I'm no one/no one

someoneinexistence

Isn't "xe" pronounced /(German ch)ay/?

mousetail

oops they did it again

caird coinheringaahing

12:11 PM

@lyxal fairies

PyGamer0

fairies?

someoneinexistence

Russia is were/was

so I have no pronouns

refer to me as sans

or anything

caird coinheringaahing

But not like, tinkerbell, more like the old folk story fairies

UndoneStudios

@cairdcoinheringaahing what?

someoneinexistence

@caird murderous?

PyGamer0

12:12 PM

i don't know any old folk story fairies

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, from time to time

PyGamer0

nor do i know tinkerbell

mousetail

Some are murderous, but the stories are not really consistent with eachother

someoneinexistence

@PyGamer0 you don't know tinker bell?

PyGamer0

what i do know is that rust isn't working on wsl2 and i am sad :(

someoneinexistence

12:12 PM

get a life outside of talking to internet... oh wait. I can't say anything...

INTERNET PEEPULZ BUDDEHS

PyGamer0

@someoneinexistence i know the character the green dress fairy?

caird coinheringaahing

Main things: anything a fae says is literal ("may I have your name?" Literally gives them your name), never accept or offer gifts, never eat anything from a fairy

mousetail

@PyGamer0 F

Ginger

Greetings, eukaryotes

someoneinexistence

@PyGamer0 yes

Greetings, prokaryote.

Or, well, I'm the prokaryote.

PyGamer0

12:14 PM

@Ginger bold of you to assume that i'm an organism :P

:/

Ok I'm actually out

Greetings, anerobes

My stuff is spread everywhere. I'm in English SE, Code Golf SE, Puzzling SE, Math SE...

Ginger

I don't recognize you

PyGamer0

12:15 PM

i feel like this room is off topic now :P

someoneinexistence

I've been stalking this SE

Ginger

are you new here or just a returning visitor?

someoneinexistence

new here

but I'm from math and puzzling

Ginger

well, welcome to TNB! I'm Ginger (like it says over there)

someoneinexistence

hello!

lyxal

12:15 PM

@Ginger hi

someoneinexistence

welcome back!

Ginger

I assume you read the chatiquette :p

someoneinexistence

yes

Ginger

cool and spicy

someoneinexistence

but I have no punctuation

my caps lock is bound to the arabic keyboard

Ginger

12:16 PM

that's a common affliction; I don't usually have uppercase letters

someoneinexistence

so I can type in that when im not coding in english

Ginger

hm

mousetail

I HAVE ONLY UPPER CASE LETTERS BECAUSE OF LOWER BYTE VALUES

someoneinexistence

I only have so many English words in me

VUVUZUELA! VIVACITY! VARICOSE! VAR!

Ginger

hey @mousetail wtf happened in the [Duration] I was gone

PyGamer0

12:17 PM

mousetail

@Ginger I DON"T KNOW

lyxal

@Ginger at least 3

maybe even 4

someoneinexistence

It's probably because I am afflicted with wanting to spell words.

Ginger

have you all collectively gone insane??

mousetail

I"VE ALWAYS BEEN INSANE

Ginger

12:18 PM

@lyxal wow, that's a lot

someoneinexistence

no

Ginger

probably not healthy

lyxal

@Ginger only on tuesdays

someoneinexistence

we're sane, and you just don't know what dimension of string theory we're sane on

Ginger

@lyxal I go insane on Thursdays. Never could get the hang of them

someoneinexistence

12:19 PM

Mondays.

I'm gonna be gone for a whole week tomorrow.

Ginger

ok

someoneinexistence

boomer

OK BOOMER OH MY GOSH I WOULD NOT LET THAT SLIDEEE

jk you're nice!

Ginger

I...

ಠ_ಠ

someoneinexistence

even evil someoneinexistence wouldn't harm you

lyxal

anyhow, I just spent the last 10 minutes misreading a compiler warning thinking it was referring to another section of the code I thought I could safely ignore despite the fact that it was actually referring to the section of code that would stop a whole bunch of infinite recursion happening

Ginger

12:21 PM

I feel like I'm in pre-OTTNB TNB

someoneinexistence

I forgot to tell you all: I get more insane as it gets close to Monday.

@lyxal that's saddening

what was the warning?

PyGamer0

@Ginger yes

someoneinexistence

do you have a screenshot?

Mithical

I don't think anybody in this room knows what day it is.

lyxal

@someoneinexistence "unreachable code"

mousetail

12:22 PM

@someoneinexistence So Tueseday is the most sane or thursday night?

Ginger

@lyxal "THERE IS A DANGEROUS PROBLEM IN YOUR CODE ON LINE 679" and then you spend 10 minutes looking around on line 619

someoneinexistence

@Mithical no

PyGamer0

@Mithical pretty sure it's monday?

someoneinexistence

@mousetail it's thurbday

that's the most non-crazy

Ginger

@Mithical It's Judgement Day

lyxal

12:22 PM

@someoneinexistence not anymore

because I fixed it :p

Ginger

as in me, I'm doing the judging

someoneinexistence

@Ginger Things fall apart. The center cannot hold. Turning and turning in the widening gyre.

Ginger

@lyxal reference source please?

lyxal

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/start-elementing-version-3/shared/…

mousetail

Not with a bang but with a whisper

lyxal

12:23 PM

the unreachable line was case item: VAny => output = output :+ mutContent(index)

I thought it was case _ => index += 1 it was complaining about

someoneinexistence

@lyxal that's a shame

UndoneStudios

hi again

lyxal

case _ => index += 1 is the line I wanted to be unreachable. case item: VAny => output = output :+ mutContent(index)was vital for making the function actually work

Ginger

why did mithical just leave, rejoin, and then leave again within the span of half a second

someoneinexistence

@UndoneStudios you won't leave. we get that. :)

mousetail

12:25 PM

I made a neat little animation: mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

someoneinexistence

you'll never leave... dododod

PyGamer0

@Ginger mod power i guess

UndoneStudios

no

caird coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 oh yeah, we have the ability to pause and start time at will

UndoneStudios

@mousetail uh what?

mousetail

12:26 PM

It's a neat little animation

someoneinexistence

@mousetail cute!

Ginger

mfw I try to start a project and it raises an

Exception("This is where you were working on the code yesterday, I put this exception in so you wouldn't forget. -Past Ginger")

UndoneStudios

neat?

@Ginger smart

lyxal

@Ginger I'd say relateable but I have literally never done that.

Ginger

@lyxal but you understand why I'd do it right?

UndoneStudios

12:27 PM

@Ginger memory?

lyxal

@Ginger I do, but I also understand that you could also just use github commits to see what you changed last time

Ginger

@lyxal then it is in fact relatable (also bold of you to assume I'm using ~~GitHub~~ ~~Git~~ any vcs at all)

mousetail

@Ginger SVN?

someoneinexistence

@mousetail that actually is quite a fun language

><> pog

mousetail

It is, I've been wirting a lot of answers with it recently

someoneinexistence

12:31 PM

I just like making little animations in it.

playing around with the stack

mousetail

That's quite fun too

someoneinexistence

I'm trying to make a truly random coin toss

so I use your x function

Ginger

oh, I almost forgor 💀!

mousetail

excited to see it

someoneinexistence

and then, depending on which way it goes, add a number and do an operation on the stack

Ginger

12:33 PM

@someoneinexistence as a new member you are required to star this message if you haven't already

excellent

thanksyou

someoneinexistence

done

Ginger

I saw

someoneinexistence

I have something, but it's an error if it runs out of numbers

Okay, I think I finished.

Let it run, say, a certain amount of steps.

Then look at the stack.

If there are more ones, it's heads.

More zeros, it's tails.

Ginger

hey @RadvylfPrograms here's a screenshot of the new log window I added to Klein:

someoneinexistence

@Ginger It's go time.

Ginger

12:37 PM

@someoneinexistence It's go time.

someoneinexistence

mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

should lead to my project

I've been working on for five minutes

while high on apple cider

Ginger

> Something Smells fishy: Attempt to read from empty stack

someoneinexistence

You forced it to work too hard.

See, you have to stop it quick.

Otherwise it tires of this mortal realm.

Ginger

relatable

someoneinexistence

And commits error 404

UndoneStudios

12:39 PM

@someoneinexistence you're drunk?

someoneinexistence

@UndoneStudios no, it's just a lotta apple cider

UndoneStudios

@Ginger I got this

someoneinexistence

20 steps works just fine for it, Ginger

oh, it's just that @ sign

mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

UndoneStudios

bye

someoneinexistence

there we go

Ginger

12:42 PM

Klein has decided that regardless of what happens to a project the loading process is always a failure 100% of the time

thanks Klein

someoneinexistence

failure!

why did a negative three appear in a string of binary

it's four now

oh gosh

Ginger

clearly it's not binary

someoneinexistence

No, it's fine, negative numbers just pop up randomly then disappear

something is wrong here

Ginger

._.

someoneinexistence

but I refuse to fix it

Ginger

12:44 PM

lol

someoneinexistence

VIVA LA LAZY

time to do duolingo

بوب وارواد

wait...

did I just type that in the wrong chat?

Ginger

yes

also:

someoneinexistence

cya, gotta run

Ginger

thanks klein, very cool

oh, I forgor to add a return True

:/

UndoneStudios

@someoneinexistence are you emirati?

Ginger

12:49 PM

YOOOOOOOO IT WORKED

:D

mousetail

@someoneinexistence Nice, does seem to underflow the stack eventually

Ginger

klein can now correctly set up and use Poetry projects!

and with that I'm going to take a little break

brb

UndoneStudios

hi

someoneinexistence

1:04 PM

@mousetail I know, but don't know why

@UndoneStudios no, I'm norwegian

obviously.

mousetail

Because the =- track removes one element from the stack netto

someoneinexistence

But why would it start returning negative numbers?

It only removes elements, not the elements values-

unless I missed something very obvious

-so I don't understand why it would do that. Unless I'm just an idiot.

mousetail

I haven't seen it return negative elements yet, it just underflows the stack and crashes

someoneinexistence

Here, I'll try to fix it...

it does return negatives

after like 20 steps

I got a stack of

"1 -1 1 0"

something is busted

mousetail

If the top 2 elements of the stack are both 0, they are equal so the left path would push 1 to the stack, then subtract that form 0 to get -1

someoneinexistence

1:09 PM

OHHHHH

mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

twas removed, and replaced with a docile reverse function

it still pushes a negative number after long enough

even w/o the = function

mousetail

why do you subtract 0 so often? That will never doanything

@someoneinexistence your new link still has the = though

someoneinexistence

we'll never know

mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

that one doesnt

hi @lyxal

lyxal

Howdy

mousetail

@someoneinexistence It still subtracts the top of the stack which might be 1

someoneinexistence

I'm just gonna rebuild from scratch

wheee

mousetail.github.io/Fish/…

Much more compact anyhow.

Just stop it after a certain amount of steps, say 19, and see if there are more 1s or 0s

Wait.

I don't think that's random

it's a pattern of 111001110011100 etc

yeah it creates patterns

not full randomness

mousetail

1:18 PM

It's just javascript's Math.random function

someoneinexistence

whee

mousetail

It should have a decent length period

someoneinexistence

ة

it's fine but it still makes patterns

like now, it made 001100110011 etc

bye

mousetail

1:37 PM

@someoneinexistence You always push 01 at the end no matter what. And you are very likely to push 2 1s at the same time

Wheat Wizard

2:11 PM

@UndoneStudios I would say don't do this, it's enough to promote it in chat.

I don't really think it's on topic for the meta.

Wheat Wizard

2:34 PM

Wait Caird already said not to do this. Why are you pinging all the mods to ask if Caird already told you the answer?

mousetail

3:29 PM

That might be my bad, I didn't read the full text caird posted and didn't think it applied directly to us

mousetail

4:15 PM

How do I type inline math in a post?

Sandbox Posts

4:32 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

><> numbers metagolf coding-challengemeta-golfrestricted-complexity I struggle to easily encode big numbers in ><>. If only there was a program that could find the best way for me? What is ><> ><>, pronounced "fish", is a esoteric 2dimentional programing language. We will consider a subset here, ...

hyper-neutrino

4:44 PM

@UndoneStudios No. I also agree with the post that caird linked.

When I talk about most SE things not applying to us I mean the Q&A structure, the usage of voting, how bounties work, things like that. What's on- and off-topic and allowed for Meta is not really much different, and rules most certainly still apply to us.

Radvylf Programs

4:56 PM

Worth noting that several SE sites are fine with (certain) proposals being advertised on their metas, so it's not a fully consistent set of rules, but that only tends to be the case when the two sites have a very significant overlap in users, like Anime and Japanese Language, or Latin and Greek

hyper-neutrino

5:12 PM

That's fair enough. TBH I'm not fully opposed to the idea; I do mostly agree with the post caird linked but I'd be open to discussing it.

DLosc

@emanresuA I did find it interesting. Thanks!

DLosc

5:26 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing You've officially reached the highest-level math class I took. In my Complex Analysis class, there was one guy who understood everything instantly, me who understood about 70% of it, and everyone else who was completely lost. X^D

My favorite part was the part where lines are just circles with infinite radii. I like maths that I can visualize.

Sandbox Posts

5:57 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find the nth number where the digit sum equals the number of factors code-golf number (This is OEIS A057531.) Your task Given a positive integer, \$n\$, find the \$n\$th number where the digit sum equals the number of factors Explanation For example, let's take 22: Its factors are \$[1, 2, 11, 2...

graffe

6:12 PM

CMC Given two integers x > y, output the number of integers no more than x with no factors y or less.

hyper-neutrino

7:13 PM

@graffe Jelly, 7 bytes: RÆf>Ạ€S

range, prime factors, greater than, map "all", sum (1 = all prime factors > y, 0 = a prime factor <= y)

the use of prime factors is just to avoid needing extra bytes to get rid of the 1 from normal factorization, since it is still correct

emanresu A

Can be ported to vyxal for 6

graffe

@hyper-neutrino cool

now how about with big numbers?

Radvylf Programs

protip: If you want performant code for large inputs, don't make it a golfing challenge in a chat room

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms :)

I don't know if you can actually do it for large numbers

say we want the number of integers at most 2^100 with no factors smaller than 2^40

Radvylf Programs

Actually it seems like it'd be pretty easy if Y was small and X was big

As in O(1) easy

graffe

7:24 PM

@RadvylfPrograms you mean just by dividing by all the numbers up to Y?

Radvylf Programs

Well the pattern of numbers which do and don't meet the condition repeats every lcm(range(y)) numbers, so you'd just count for that many, then multiply by how much you'd need to reach x

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms interesting.. can you do that for 2^100 and 2^40?

emanresu A

What do you think?

Radvylf Programs

No, because lcm(range(2**40)) would be huge

graffe

ah yes it would indeed

I wonder how good an approximation one can get for this

Radvylf Programs

7:28 PM

I actually do think you can get an exact result though

graffe

that would be amazing!

Radvylf Programs

I believe Euler's totient function is relevant here, I know that's used in RSA to do some pretty crazy stuff almost instantly

graffe

if I could award a chat room bounty I would :)

Radvylf Programs

Given how much you seem to like random problems related to big prime numbers, you might enjoy looking into how RSA works

@RadvylfPrograms I think that unoptimized this would be O(n²) where n is the number of unique prime factors in y

graffe

hmm.. what is gamma in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…?

Radvylf Programs

7:31 PM

2**40 is approx. a trillion

It looks like we've got all known primes up to around 10**18, or 2**60, listed

So if you're really interested in finding the solution to this, checking out how many primes there are up to 2**40 would be a good first step to approximating how long it would take

graffe

I think it might be Euler's constant

@RadvylfPrograms I think that it going to be roundly 2**40/ln(2**40)

by the prime number theorem

Radvylf Programs

So around 40 billion

graffe

I don't really understand en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Radvylf Programs

O(n²) with 40 billion items probably isn't really practical unless you've got some friends over at the NSA

graffe

I mean I don't know how you would compute it in code

@RadvylfPrograms :)

@RadvylfPrograms the link I pasted looks like it might be the answer

or am I wrong?

Radvylf Programs

7:36 PM

If you want an approximation that might be related, but that article's really dense so I'm not really sure what the theorem actually says

graffe

me neither but I am just looking at the third theorem that has a formula

but I am trying to just work out what it actually means!

I mean it explicitly says An estimate of the probability of {\displaystyle X}X ({\displaystyle X\gg n}{\displaystyle X\gg n}) having no factor {\displaystyle \leq n}\leq n is given by

are those p in the product primes?

why is there no X in the formula?

does it not matter how big X is?

Radvylf Programs

7:51 PM

Okay I think I have a linear-time partial solution

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms ooh... go on!

Radvylf Programs

It requires x to be a multiple of y right now, but I think there's a workaround

graffe

interesting