« first day (3998 days earlier)      last day (845 days later) » 

m90
2:27 PM
@pxeger 4-abs(2**d+1j)//.5
3
 
2:40 PM
0
Q: Make a copy machine in Conway's Game of Life

SquareootThere is a initial empty (dead cells) area called 'canvas', its form and size does not matter, but at least 8x8 cells wide or 4xY where Y is some number greater than 7. Pattern will not interact with the canvas boundaries! This is within the players responsibility. The player then puts a still li...

 
2:51 PM
Okay, Charles Fourier was a man ahead of his time, but...what?
 
Fourier?
 
Charles Fourier.
 
3:15 PM
my rep is no longer a multiple of 10 :(
 
@WheatWizard The one with the Fourier Transforms?
 
@mathcat That was Joe, not Chuck
 
are they related?
 
All humans are related if you go back far enough
 
3:17 PM
yeah I mean are they closely related?
 
Define "closely"
 
Say, within <10 generations
 
It doesn't look like they were too closely related? They were born about the same time
 
@WheatWizard I'm not totally on board with this relationship between cuckoldry and the rest of society
 
But you're on board with the lemonade bit?
 
3:19 PM
well it doesn't seem like the video essay is trying to agree with that bit
 
It seems pretty straightforward to me that if society confines people to loveless marriages that infidelity will be higher than if people are permitted to marry whom they wish.
 
@WheatWizard (and no, it just seems like typical historical thinkers being lunatics to me)
 
@WheatWizard You'd also have to allow for easier divorces though, not just for entering marriages with whomever you want
 
I would say there are multiple factors.
 
@WheatWizard Have you read We by Yevgeny Zamyatin?
 
3:22 PM
@pxeger Okay but don't you wish at least a teeny bit that the world's oceans would turn into lemonade? Imagine, free lemonade any time you want, all you need to do is drive to the beach and drink the water
 
@pxeger Probably not. I can't read.
 
Free lemonade, but full of fish excrement and oil spills? No thanks
@WheatWizard ?
 
@pxeger No you don't understand part of the plan is that it would entirely annihilate all aquatic live.
 
wouldn't fish evolve to be able to thrive in an ocean of lemonade though?
 
True, when life gives you lemonade, you make lemons
 
3:24 PM
In combination with salt, this liquid will give the sea a flavour of the kind of lemonade known as aigresel. It will thus be easy to remove the saline and citric particles from the water and render it drinkable, which will make it unnecessary for ships to be provisioned with barrels of water. This breaking down of sea water by the boreal liquid is a necessary preliminary to the development of new sea creatures, which will provide a host of amphibious servants to pull ships and help in fisheries, replacing the ghastly legions of sea-monsters which will be annihilated by the admixture of bore
 
> the boreal liquid
 
wtf is this
 
what is that referring to?
 
@WheatWizard ?
 
Is this person (Fourier?) advocating turning the seas into lemonade to get rid of "sea-monsters"?
 
3:25 PM
Yes.
Or really more predicting it would happen.
 
Ugh, I thought from the Wikipedia article he said we needed to do something about it
 
Yeah, I didn't get the impression he was advocating it
 
He seems pretty happy about it in the quote.
 
Which "vile creatures" is he talking about exactly? Nessie? Sharks?
 
Giant squid?
 
3:28 PM
"the ghastly legions of sea-monsters"
 
I'm reminded of an episode of Scooby Doo where a town is being terrorised by a monster as usual
but at the end of the episode it's revealed that the monster is literally a real sea creature
 
3:50 PM
mornin
"the ghastly legions of sea-monsters" just another normal morning at TNB :/
I'm going to make a spec for Diakrit
 
4:05 PM
So if I'm understanding this correctly, this person wants to turn the sea into lemonade to:
* make it drinkable
* Evolve sea creatures that will tow in ships (?)
* Kill the sea monsters
 
no
 
The first one is to make it easier to extract water, not to make it directly drinkable.
And it's more of a prediction than a wish.
 
@WheatWizard so it's not "I want the sea to become lemonade", it's "the sea will become lemonade"?
using jedi mind tricks on the oceans
 
4:29 PM
I interpreted it as "The sea will become lemonade, and it will be awesome"
 
4:46 PM
@pxeger the best episodes of scooby doo are when the true eldritch horrors get involved
 
5:07 PM
@PyGamer0 Somehow your font is appearing strange in Word
Is that normal?
 
5:21 PM
@GingerIndustries Wow now you can add custom frames to the dancing emoji generator
 
6:02 PM
Just reading about BQN, since I see it in every challenge now. I don't understand if it's a language made for PPCG, with bigger-picture goals, or if it's just a "better" APL that happens to be good for golfing?
 
@Fatalize It is just a "better" APL.
 
I don't see you in the contributors on Github, I guess it's not well-seen by Dyalog?
Or you disagree with the "better" that the creators insist on in the presentation
 
@Fatalize Well, it's a direct competitor...
 
being part of the sphere of apl things but not apl
 
To be fair I should have guessed it was not a PPCG language when I saw that there were actual efforts in documentation and implementations :p
5
 
6:07 PM
sad vyxal noises
 
every time i look at jelly internals i thank you a bit for putting brachylog in multiple files
 
Okay so I understand it's basically a branch off of APL, so yeah I understand Dyalog aren't necessarily fond of it
 
My impression of BQN is that it seems slightly self-righteous over APL, J, and K, but at the same time has some design decisions I'd consider much better than APL
 
@UnrelatedString I hope you didn't try to understand the transpiler
 
i think i did when i added the backtrackable write subscripts
thankfully i didn't have to go too deep
 
6:11 PM
@pxeger That's why I had doubts it was a very serious project, because the presentation makes it seem like other APL-based languages are evil, and BQN is the second coming of christ
Not a very professional advertisement of the language imo
 
@Fatalize Also, it lacks a few primitives that other APLs have like base conversion (although it probably has primitives other APLs don't have)
 
And it still keeps APL's worst feature, the non-ASCII character set
 
@pxeger tbf even Vyxal didn't start out with too much effort put into docs because that's just not a golflang's main goal
@pxeger Some would consider it a really good feature
 
ok but I don't care because I think it's the worst feature and I am always right
 
J going ASCII sounds cool but I just can't understand it with all the dots and colons :(
 
6:13 PM
@pxeger It has its upsides and downsides
 
@pxeger I am sorry, Your Majesty, I forgot you were the queen
 
the dots and colons are pretty visually distinctive but it still makes it kind of hard to parse
 
@user J's implementation of using ASCII only is not ideal either, I'll give you that
 
@pxeger Apl looks somehow unique with the non Ascii charset
 
To be fair I always thought that many APL symbols are far from being as descriptive as they are advertised
 
6:14 PM
"Unique" should not be a goal when writing a programming language if you want it to be popular and easy to learn
 
without actually knowing j they look just as much like they're separating things than introducing digraphs (and going beyond digraphs with both periods and colons is just kinda weird)
 
@Fatalize That is true, and a couple of BQN's primitives seemed a bit better to me, but a single symbol can only do so much to describe what it does
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but only if it's big enough, which Unicode characters aren't :P
4
 
Like iota or rho really make no sense as symbols for what they do
Afficionados would probably tell me they would but unless you're already an APL nerd, they really don't for a random programmer
 
they're sort of mnemonic but then you're just using greek letters for what words they kind of suggest instead of symbols
 
This could be one place where projectional editing would be cool
 
6:19 PM
@Fatalize BQN started as an internal project at Dyalog. I was one of the members of the working group that made the initial design. You'll find my colleagues and me mentioned many places where BQN's history is described.
 
> I don't think any other language fits [the description as clean and modern] quite so well as BQN
 
@Adám Why is it not directly "commercialised" by Dyalog then? Do you not intend to replace Dyalog APL by "Dyalog BQN"?
(For the record I also think BQN is a bad name. It's not memorable, and it doesn't flow as well as APL)
 
> Base conversion , partitioning , and matrix division are commonly asked-for primitives, but they don't match my conception of a primitive
> my conception
> my
If a language designer refuses to accommodate feedback, their language is unlikely to work out as well as it could
 
To be fair how often do you need to convert bases, let alone matrix divisions
Having too many almost-useless primitives is not necessarily good outside of PPCG
 
@Fatalize bqn=bacon
(or at least, that's how i think of it, lol)
 
6:24 PM
@Fatalize Base conversion? Hang on, let me just grep a large codebase for atoi and itoa...
 
@hyper-neutrino I read that in the docs yeah, but then why not call it Bacon directly? That's much more memorable
@pxeger What does that have to do with base conversion?
 
How are you gonna convert a number to a string without base conversion?
 
...with type conversion?
 
At the time, I didn't know that a major member of the working group, and the only implementer there, had already given notice. When that member of the group eventually left the company, they did some final design work, and re-implemented it (to avoid IP issues).
At this point (without a major designer and implementer, and now short-staffed in general, especially due to the discovery of many faulty optimisations that had been done over the past couple of years, which set back development a year or so) Dyalog's chances of launching a successful BQN implementation were not convincing.
 
I'm back
 
6:29 PM
@Adám That employee left specifically to implement a concurrent language to its former company, with IP that he worked on while at Dyalog? Seems fishy
 
@mathcat that is the defining feature
 
@Fatalize No, I wouldn't claim that. They were unhappy at Dyalog for various reasons, but I don't think they left specifically with BQN in mind. In fact, I believe the BQN design work and prototype implementation was one of the things that developer thoroughly enjoyed at Dyalog.
 
Don't know much about language design IP, but it still seems weird that he can walk away with specifications that were made while being employed
Anyway, thanks for all the answers
 
But hey, we at Dyalog believe array languages have something valuable to bring to the world, and if what comes out of this story is that BQN takes over the world and runs away with all our customers, then we've achieved what we wanted.
 
@Adám That's commendable but I doubt your boss would agree completely :p
 
6:35 PM
I actually have that from him. Dyalog and its employees are not in this for the money. If we wanted to maximise profit, we'd do like our former competitor MicroAPL, and shut down the APL language side of the business, instead focusing on paid support. If you ask Dyalog employees what they would consider "success" for Dyalog, they'd say having APL running for free everywhere; in browsers, on calculators, shipped with OSs etc. Basically, our success is putting ourselves out of business.
 
I've decided to make an APOL SE bot because why not
 
a what?
 
like Vyxal Bot
 
do you mean APL or is APOL a different language i don't know about
 
I'm actually using Vyxal Bot's SE chat library, which is called chatbot.py but I have renamed to LyxaLib because that sounds better
@hyper-neutrino APOL is a language I made
 
6:37 PM
oh cool
@GingerIndustries as long as you just use chatbot.py that's fine
don't look at bot.py
 
we don't talk about bot.py
 
actually bot.py is fine, it's the hooks/ that you should avoid cuz the code there sucks :P
 
On another topic: did Dennis ever come back? Who's maintaining TIO?
 
No, but he does seem to make sure it comes back up when it goes down
 
other people are working on TIO replacements
 
6:39 PM
he hasn't yet. TIO is still maintained by him (or at least, I don't think anyone else has access); the couple of times it's gone down or run into issues it's been fixed very quickly
a lot of languages are using their own hosts for now like vyxal's pythonanywhere interpreter, and we have some others like RTO and ATO in dev
 
@GingerIndustries like ato.pxeger
 
We should ask SE to make a replacement for us, surely they'll do it /s
Who developped Vyxal btw? What are its specificities? Also a language that didn't exist when I stopped contributing
 
@mathcat yup
 
@Fatalize lyxal started with 2x-1
lyxal being the main developer
 
@mathcat for a moment I thought you meant 2x-1 created lyxal
 
6:42 PM
@mathcat (i think)
 
which would be interesting
 
yeah
 
@Fatalize SE did actually offer to fund/help with hosting TIO, though IDK if dennis ended up getting in contact with them since I just forwarded the message to him and left it at that
 
@Fatalize It's a stack-based language that's supposed to be easy to learn and understand
 
@hyper-neutrino That's the most surprising thing I'll have read in 2022
 
6:43 PM
@hyper-neutrino Is there a link to RTO?
 
@Fatalize designed for epic gamers
 
"Vyxal is a golfing language with a unique design philosophy: make things as short as possible but retain elegance while doing so"
I feel like I've read that about half of PPCG's languages
 
@Fatalize Hey that's not completely true ... I've written pages and pages of documentation for my Haskell golfing library. I'm actually running into issues where I have so much documentation it becomes hard to find stuff. ;_;
 
@WheatWizard You should write metadocs about the docs
 
I really need to set up Hoogle so I can have intelligent search for the docs.
 
6:47 PM
@Adám I think it's still in beta
 
Closed?
 
I probably should have a little explainer of how to at least use the docs effectively.
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ idk
 
now to create an account for APOL Bot
 
@GingerIndustries You could just make a feed for it. :-P
 
6:51 PM
@wizzwizz4 ???
 
You can get a (negative ID) chat user “for cheap” by making an RSS feed. However, every post is on an up-to-several-minute delay, because it's coming from the RSS feed and Stack Exchange only polls that sometimes.
 
@Fatalize i mean, given that it's pretty much precisely BQN's goal to be an improved APL, I don't think it's that weird to present it as such
 
@wizzwizz4 account already created, too late
 
The feed isn't a good solution, regardless.
 
now to get 20 rep
hmmmmmmmmmm
what is the best way to do that
 
6:55 PM
@GingerIndustries Post an answer.
Don't upvote it yourself, though. That's cheating.
 
Answer the top unanswered question.
If it works I'll upvote it.
 
okay, let's see here
one seccy
 
@WheatWizard That would get too much rep. What if the bot goes rogue with all that power?
 
@WheatWizard Tjjfvi's been working on that for the last few months...
 
6:56 PM
better idea: All I need are 2 upvotes. I will answer the add 2 ints question with APOL
 
Tips also work
Also an APOL polyglot would be cool
 
0
A: Add two numbers

GingerBotAPOL, 6 bytes +(i i) I AM BOT FEED ME BUTTER

one more upvote
nic
e
 
BUTTER TIME
 
hey look it worked
In unrelated news, this
 
@GingerIndustries They missed the oldest trick in the book.
If you want a cat to get off a box, try to get it to be on the box.
 
7:09 PM
hMMMMM
 
Case in point. Talk about getting cats to leave somewhere, and one shows up. :-p
 
{"url":"wss://chat.sockets.stackexchange.com/events/1/7fecce0242664c1098a1ba4b19a296c4"}
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
  File "/home/runner/APOLBot/LyxaLib.py", line 299, in joinRoom
    r=Room(room_id, self, onActivity)
  File "/home/runner/APOLBot/LyxaLib.py", line 124, in __init__
    self.connect_ws() # attempt to connect via WebSockets
  File "/home/runner/APOLBot/LyxaLib.py", line 141, in connect_ws
    self.ws = websocket.create_connection(wsurl, origin="http://chat.stackexchange.com")
bot did that
;-;
 
@GingerBot (cc @GingerIndustries) Just so you know, uncontrolled bots aren't allowed here. As long as you're controlling it, that's fine.
 
@emanresuA I'm going to give it its own room
at least that's the idea
for now, sandbox for testing
 
@GingerIndustries can you link Apol?
 
7:15 PM
@mathcat I can link the replit (github is desynced bc replit's github integration is garbage)
it's also on esolangs
 
@GingerIndustries How's repl.it as a development environment?
 
@wizzwizz4 eh
 
ninja'd
 
it works but github integration sucks
 
How's integration with regular git?
 
7:21 PM
@wizzwizz4 there isn't any
 
:-| I'm guessing you need a synced editor or something?
 
@wizzwizz4 idk man
 
@emanresuA controlled bots aren't allowed here either
 
@lyxal what version of websocket-client are you using for Vyxal Bot?
 
unless they get meta approval, all chatbots are not allowed here
 
7:26 PM
@hyper-neutrino I think emanresuA meant controlled as in bot accounts but which are just being operated entirely manually from the normal SE chat interface
 
oh well that's just a sock/alt then lol
 
@hyper-neutrino I am offended
 
Not just controlled as in some kind of well-managed bot
 
i thought username meant controlled as in it only acts when commanded and doesn't operate on its own
for example, TryAPL is a controlled bot because it only does anything when instructed to by a user
but VyxalBot is not controlled because it will post messages when events on GitHub happen without user interaction
 
@hyper-neutrino It's been a long time since that went badly wrong; can't we just forget the past and repeat our mistakes?
 
7:28 PM
@wizzwizz4 I think there is something wrong with that sentence
 
@wizzwizz4 :P wait was it due to particular incidents here that chatbots got banned?
i thought this rule had just been around to keep things in order proactively
 
@hyper-neutrino You don't know? Er… I said nothing.
 
@hyper-neutrino so did you have to ask SE to allow Vyxal Bot?
 
@wizzwizz4 ಠ_ಠ
 
@mathcat this is a TNB rule
vyxal bot is allowed in vyxal room because lyxal says so
 
7:29 PM
oh ok
 
Which trash room was PPCG using back in 2015?
 
we have a TNB rule that forbids bots except under approval, so currently only OSP, NP, and NSP are approved if i remember correctly
@wizzwizz4 i think we just used trash
@hyper-neutrino and all of them happen to be uncontrolled :P
vyxalbot is also approved if it's restricted to be controlled, but only when LYAL happens
 
@hyper-neutrino There are used to be several rooms named trash!
 

­Trash

Where the trash goes.
That's the main one
But it didn't exist in 2015
 
oh
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
7:31 PM
I'd guess they'd just have been moved to the sandbox?

Sandbox

Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...
 
No, they were binned.
 
Wow, the early Sandbox transcript is kinda bizarre
in Sandbox, Oct 20 '10 at 22:11, by Feeds
thank you Feeds, very cool
 
Oh, I see the problem! I wasn't showing frozen rooms. Four pages of results, just like I remember.
 
@pxeger Ah yes,
 
private room
must be on a different site
 
So that's it's name
@pxeger @hyper-neutrino Yes, that's what I meant
 
I have given up on trying to find the TNB bot fight. There are too many chat rooms and the search filters aren't good enough.
Therefore, it never happened. There is no reason for rules preventing us from recreating the event(s).
 
7:48 PM
@GingerBot hey
Welcome to TNB
 
@wizzwizz4 :thinking:
 
@NewPosts Glad to see a question by a new user that doesn't get VTC'd by people who forgot it's on topic :p
 
it's a pretty high quality tips question
those are rare
 
8:00 PM
^^
Is Dennis alive?
 
He's fixed any critical bugs in TIO that have come up, so yes
 
@RedwolfPrograms recent critcal bug?
 
I don't know how recent, but within the last year or two
 
@RedwolfPrograms which critcal bug?
 
I don't know many of the details, I'm just relaying what I've heard from others
 
8:04 PM
Dennis also shows as online in the TIO chat room most of the time (even though he hasn't sent any messages)
 
@pxeger why he don't post messages?
 
We don't know for certain, but he explains a lot of what's going on in the transcripts
 
I discovered TIO, then CGCC.
 
@wizzwizz4 I mean, we could make one in Sandbox, right?
 
@user Oh, there are many in Sandbox, if you look back far enough. :-)
 
8:07 PM
Cool, time to waste my evening doing that :P
 
Where advent of golf day 41?
 
Is running Vyxal as simple as importing a Python library, or are the steps much more complicated than that?
Same w/ Jelly
 
@RedwolfPrograms Use CMD, then type "python idk.py file.txt"
 
I'd be running it on Alpine, not Windows :p
But that doesn't really seem correct
What's file.txt?
 
at least last time i checked you can run vyxal just by importing a module
but things have changed a lot since then so idk anymore
 
8:14 PM
@RedwolfPrograms It is now
 
jelly is still that simple AFAIK
 
pip install vyxal
python -m vyxal ...
 
@pxeger No
 
8:39 PM
I now have a whiteboard in my room!
It's 2 by 3 feet
 
@pxeger Even vyxal ... should work, right?
 
Vyxal is cursed
(The offline interpreter, at least)
(plz don't quote ^^ out of context)
 
> (The offline interpreter, at least)
 
And... now I'm stuck on v2.6.0 'cos I don't have root access
 
> And... now I'm stuck on v2.6.0 'cos I don't have root access
 
8:49 PM
@user depends on your $PATH
 
Oh I thought the script also did that
We should maybe modify to ask if you want to add it to the path
Poetry should let us make different installation script thingies depending on the OS, right?
 
Ok turns out it was awaiting input because on offline mode the stack doesn't get zero-padded
 
Sounds like a bug ಠ_ಠ
 
It's an old bug on an old version
 
I wish Windows had a US Extended layout
 
8:56 PM
Turns out Vyxal's actually kinda fast
 
US-INTL overrides what ', ", and ` do
Which is very annoying
 
:(
Especially for programming
 
Can you design your own keyboard layouts on Windows?
There are few things in this world that I hate more than the Windows 10 settings page
It somehow has none of the settings anyone actually needs
And the ones it does have are hidden in some obscure place
 
9:17 PM
Well, I'm halfway through designing my own keyboard layout lol
 
@RedwolfPrograms Yes
@RedwolfPrograms Do you not hate having 1 spider in your food, having 2 spiders in your food, having 3 spiders in your food, having 4 spiders in your food, ...?
Because that's way more than a few hatable things
 
@user Protein :p
 
finally got around to posting my simplified steganography cop
 
My sister hates when she finds cat hairs in her food, but I just consider it added flavor
Spiders are the same
 
o.O
So that's why you have cats :P
 
9:24 PM
@RedwolfPrograms No
 

« first day (3998 days earlier)      last day (845 days later) »