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12:11 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

N3buchadnezzarWill the hydra finally die? Part II Background This is a follow up question to the question: Will the Hydra finally die? As before a dangerous A Medusa have released a dangerous Hydra which is revived unless the exact number of heads it have is removed. The knights can remove a certain number of ...

 
@SandboxPosts Wow, look at this champ. Using the sandbox like a grownup
 
Vyxal is so hyper-optimized to do FizzBuzz that "buzz" and "Buzz" appear twice each in the compression dictionary :P
 
@hyper-neutrino shhh... we don't mention that here
 
@lyxal We have to make a little buzz about it before the conversation fizzes out
 
don't worry, yuno also has a pretty significant amount of flags, so you won't get all the hate (if my language ever gains ground, which it seems to have not)
 
@hyper-neutrino youno why
 
@hyper-neutrino tbh yuno seems to be very in-dev to use it well, and it mostly looks like a Jelly port
 
true. also it's probably a good thing nobody's interested in developing; my code is too cursed for human consumption
also fair enough; yuno probably adds less over jelly than vyxal does over the 18 other stack golf langs
although i have made a crap ton of built-ins not error on strings and instead do something helpful, and implement a bunch of features dennis never got around to, like stacking unparseable nilads :p
 
12:31 AM
See, I'm working on both Jam (a separate tacit lang, aimed to improve on Jelly) and a fork of Jelly, and I'm wondering, at what point do I abandon the fork and move it all to Jam?
 
does Jam have a new tacit system or is it also the same rules as jelly?
 
It's entirely in concept at the moment
 
If and when I start work on it, I'm either going to start from my fork and make significant modifications, or rewrite from base
 
it seems that every time i get significant progress on a project, i think of ideas i wish i'd done and want to redo the whole thing, but then i'd never get anything done lmao
 
12:33 AM
Be like me, never start
 
Currently, my fork only adds new builtins or modifies behaviour of existing builtins where they are currently equal to identity (or a useless constant) in all cases
 
i guess i need to actually beat jelly at least once instead of just having a port on a few of my answers :P
 
I think when I make a significant change, or if I remove any builtins, then I'll spin it out
Either that, or I modify my fork to be backwards compatible, then make the current, breaking version into Jam
 
Just bump the version number on Jelly to 1.30 :p
 
I'd never make significant changes (versions, code page, removing builtins etc.) to Jelly
I'd suggest additions/modifications to atoms/quicks, but Jelly isn't my Lang, so I wouldn't make significant modifications, and I'd never make any changes without someone double checking them (ideally, Dennis)
 
1:02 AM
CMC: Output [[[...], [...], [...]], [[...], [...], [...]], [[...], [...], [...]]]
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing nice
 
darn, python outputs Ellipsis for whatever reason
 
There's a very elegant and short Python program :P
 
@hyper-neutrino ???
@cairdcoinheringaahing Does it involve a self-reference?
 
likely
Python, 33 bytes: x=[];x.extend([x]*3);print([x]*3)
 
1:06 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Vyxal (the lazy option), 43 bytes: Try it Online!
 
@hyper-neutrino Very nice :P
 
Python, 26: a=[];a+=[[a]*3]*3;print(a)
 
I had:
l=[0]*3
for i in[0,1,2]:l[i]=l
print(sorted(l))
 
idk why i did extend
am i dumb or smth
 
Yes, as you have said on multiple occasions /s
 
1:08 AM
@user try print(...)
 
@hyper-neutrino no, you are hyper-neutrino
 
@hyper-neutrino Huh, interesting
 
i think it's for numpy
along with the @ operator
 
Interestingly, it doesn't work if you remove sorted
And, more interestingly, it doesn't work if you do l.sort() instead of sorted
 
1:28 AM
JavaScript is so horribly cursed. You move some js into an external file and all of a sudden you have permalink decoding working on the desktop version of the site but not on the mobile version
On desktop, the link loads fine
 
this is what you get for not having your JS in an external file like it's supposed to be the whole time :P
 
To quote Dennis:
in Jelly, Dec 13 '15 at 20:07, by Dennis
@quartata I've never written production code before, so sorry 'bout that. Anything in particular you want me to decipher?
 
 
4 hours later…
5:31 AM
One week has passed without a single ARM answer, so I figured I'd start it off by solving Hello World
 
@lyxal wow vyxal with syntax highlighting looks really cool
 
0
A: "Hello, World!"

BubblerARM (Thumb), 29 bytes Assembly: .section .text .global _main .thumb _main: mov r7, #4 // 2704 syscall #4 (write) mov r0, #1 // 2001 fd #1 = stdout add r1, pc, #8 // a102 string address = (pc+4) + 8 (msg) mov r2, #13 // 220d string length = 13 ...

 
6:03 AM
Is this any interesting? Any ideas to make it better? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/23631/55372
 
6:34 AM
Is there a vanilla typing challenge?
 
@Ausername What is a vanilla typing challenge?
 
Like, you're given a value and have to test whether it's a string / int / array
 
That's... simply impossible in lots of languages
 
True
 
either that or it's a native builtin
 
6:49 AM
It can be an interesting problem to solve for individual languages (especially JS where things are wonky), but I don't think it's a good code golf challenge (which should be open to all languages as much as possible)
 
@Ausername Dyalog APL, 9 bytes: ≡+2×2|⎕DR Try it online! (1: string, 2: int, 3: list of ints)
(btw also distinguishes char from string, with char giving 0)
 
7:27 AM
in my C code I am using pthreads which seems somehow to interfere with rand() even though I never call rand() in the multithreaded part of the code. Does pthreads call rand() internally?
 
@Anush How exactly does it interfere?
 
@Bubbler you no longer get a deterministic sequence from the calls to rand()
If I set a seed the calls to rand() always give the same answer except if I used pthreads even though rand() is not called in the multithreaded parts
it's as if pthread calls rand() internally
maybe it does?
 
I have no idea why it happens, but it's likely you can solve the issue with this SO answer
 
"rand_r is obsolete since POSIX 2008. I don't know why, but would love to. " ?
@Bubbler I will give that a go, thanks
 
8:18 AM
@NewPosts this is NP-hard, right?
I think it must be
 
@pxeger I'm 90% sure it is
 
I haven't found the exact problem on wikipedia but the Bin packing problem seems basically the same and is well-studied
 
Yeah, specifically the 3rd problem
Decision problem is NP hard, and the optimization version is at least as hard as that
 
9:29 AM
is APL pronounced as Apple?
 
@PyGamer0 Only for puns. See apl.wiki/Humour#Apples
 
@Adám so is APL pronounced as the letter A-P-L
 
In all other contexts, yes. And always has been.
 
9:45 AM
Anyone want my epic profile pic? I found it somewhere on the dark web
 
no
 
I made it a year ago with my awesome photo editing skills
still no?
 
no
 
10:37 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly is now on staging.ato.pxeger.com
 
@pxeger You may have Jelly, but how many deadfishes do you have?
 
@Ausername why does it say "Do Stuff Online" three times lol?
 
@pxeger Those are fillers - I'll add permalinking later.
And no it doesn't count your bytes - always 0 bytes...
Now I'm going to see how many different HQ9+ dialects I can get...
 
11:41 AM
@Bubbler Python, 25: a=[];a+=[a]*3;print([*a])
 
11:51 AM
anyone know how to update codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22116/9534 with details of how to do the thing in the challenge?
^ I absolutely cannot words today
 
@pxeger woo
Omg, sorry for messing stuff up <.< I was unsure what to put as the docker version yeah, and we already discussed the options. What does the fun bit do?
 
If you run Jelly at the command line it will show you the command line usage:
Usage:

    jelly f <file> [input]    Reads the Jelly program stored in the
                              specified file, using the Jelly code page.
                              This option should be considered the default,
                              but it exists solely for scoring purposes in
                              code golf contests.

    jelly fu <file> [input]   Reads the Jelly program stored in the
                              specified file, using the UTF-8 encoding.

    jelly e <code> [input]    Reads a Jelly program as a command line
jelly fun executes a file in unicode and appends a trailing newline to the output
I think I should have used fu not fun actually; that's what TIO does at least
 
Ah, I miseed the _Append an `n` to the flag list to append a trailing newline to the
program's output._ bit!
Man git rebase is so sweet
 
12:10 PM
sure is lol
2 days ago, by pxeger
git rebase is seriously OP
Jul 3 at 12:13, by pxeger
git rebase is op
 
I was like Hmm, need to update me fork. Oh, I can do that in one command using rebase
 
I think for that you'd have to use merge, wouldn't you?
 
Depends on the changes and whether I want to overwrite or actually merge
 
Also I didn't expect to be able to push to your fork, but I could and did, which was a bit weird
 
4771
A: How do I update or sync a forked repository on GitHub?

Mark LongairIn your local clone of your forked repository, you can add the original GitHub repository as a "remote". ("Remotes" are like nicknames for the URLs of repositories - origin is one, for example.) Then you can fetch all the branches from that upstream repository, and rebase your work to continue ...

So the short end of it is that rebase leads to a cleaner git history, unless someone has cloned / forked my fork and is working on it.
 
12:20 PM
but your changes there have already been merged in to upstream oh they were on the jelly branch but you want to update the main branch
I get it now
 
Yeah, I always work on branches
 
I normally do, but not always for projects that only I work on
I've got contributors now, so I guess that'll have to change
:)
 
In some school projects years ago, people just forced push straight into master. It was a nightmare.
 
at least they used git...
 
@N3buchadnezzar laughs in Vyxal
where we pretty much always push straight to main
 
12:22 PM
> a nightmare
 
Yeah, force push into master is not a problem if you are working alone
or do not know how to use git
 
it's just more convenient though
 
Explains why Vyxal is the way it is. Oooooohhhh
 
rekt!
 
ah yes, another person riffing on vyxal
that would make you about the 4th or 5th person to do so
very unoriginal
 
12:24 PM
> only cool people get hate mail
 
like seriously though, get a different joke.
 
- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
"Vyxal bad" is getting old
because I've heard it way too many times
 
ok boomer
 
I'll send a PR for a better joke =)
 
12:25 PM
see now that's creative
good job
@pxeger shut up zoomer
 
I'm probably older than you :0
 
@pxeger that's why it's funny
 
CMC: shortest Ruby snippet to evaluate to an empty string without using the same character twice in a row
probably too easy
 
But yeah I do not mind you pushing my forks lol
 
@pxeger - Technoblade
- Wayne Gretzky
- Michael Scott
 
12:31 PM
@pxeger ??? Try it online!
 
there's shorter
 
Best I can do is 8 bytes
 
I've got 5 bytes
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

simonalexander2005Transdeletion Transdeletion is the process of removing a letter from a word and forming another word by creating an anagram from the remaining letters. If you can do this repeatedly, all the way down to a single letter ("A" or "I", usually, in English), you have formed a "Transdeletion Pyramid". ...

 
Seems I got my solution down to 6 bytes
 
12:38 PM
@N3buchadnezzar doesn't work? lol
 
But yeah, no idea about 5. I do not know any Ruby :p
 
@N3buchadnezzar hint: it contains no numbers
 
Wait, how can you tell it does not work? Output is empty, and no crashes.
 
@N3buchadnezzar at least you learnt about source control at school :D
 
@N3buchadnezzar Try it online!
the snippet needs to evaluate to an empty string, not just output nothing
 
12:40 PM
Ahh
 
@AncientSwordRage you can delete it if you feel that's better. That's just what I thought of when I saw the word
 
@AncientSwordRage More like I forced it upon them. But it was a fairly large project so git was appropriate.
 
@pxeger done
@N3buchadnezzar I mean some source control is better than none
 
Indeed
I give up, Ruby is not my jam :p
 
"#{}"
 
12:48 PM
10
A: What is the # (sharp, number, pound, hash) sign used for in Ruby?

Steve BennerIn Perl, # is used for commenting, and since Perl is an 'ancestor' of Ruby, the role was carried over. The "#{}" syntax is called 'interpolation' and the pound was picked most likely because interpolation is similar in a sense to commenting, because you are changing the context of your code (in ...

 
alternative for 6 bytes: p.to_s
 
> If you like to alias rm to rm -rf to "save time" then maybe rebase is for you.
 
lol
 
Tuff talk
 
1:14 PM
@N3buchadnezzar that explains my preference for rebase...
 
1:25 PM
Whats the difference between disdain, and distain? Hmm
 
@N3buchadnezzar ones a word and ones either a mispelling or an archaic word for staining something
 
@N3buchadnezzar One is "distain," and the other is "distain? Hmm"
 
@pxeger Ooh, very nice!
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I saw your gelatin challange. Too bad it did not garner the attention it deserved
 
@N3buchadnezzar Which one, the interpreter or meta golf?
 
1:30 PM
metagolf
 
didn't that one get pretty much optimized
 
@lyxal Vyxal bad because bad
Yeah basically
I think Bubbler's answer is either optimal or so close to optimal that it's unlikely to be beat
Would've been nice to get more answers on it tho
 
my solution was technically theoretically optimal but then it TLEs i think >:-(
granted, having no time limit would make it kinda boring because then it's just trivial BFS
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Indeed
I think score + codelength is a good metric, even if someone finds the optimal algorithm, it could probably be golfed
 
and finding the appropriate heuristic is why bubbler beat mine by so much; i just couldn't be bothered to spend more time on it after wasting that much time writing a working BFS lol
 
1:32 PM
BFS are my BFFS
 
Anyone feel like helping me this this:
2 hours ago, by AncientSwordRage
anyone know how to update https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/22116/9534 with details of how to do the thing in the challenge?
 
I'd update it, but the only way I know how to do it is to generate all possible matrices and check which ones compress to that :P
 
@N3buchadnezzar That generally just leads to someone finding the optimal algorithm, then that being porting into Jelly/05AB1E/Husk
 
I dont see a problem with that
 
@user I mean describing how to go from compressed to uncompressed
 
1:36 PM
Unless the algorithm is crazy enough to be mad difficult to write in a golfing lang, the winner is always going to be the person who ported it, not the person who found it
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing I swear it's like someone set the temperature, frequency and presence penalty to 0 and pressed generate on the OpenAI playground.
Because repeating the same line without any change is something that would happen with those settings :p
 
@lyxal It is an irrefutable argument tho :P
 
Can't argue against an argument like that
 
How easy is it to implement BFS or something in Jelly, or any other recursive algorithm with a branching condition
 
Probably fairly easy. Jelly has builtin recursion, and simple branching
 
1:42 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing except that when the ai keeps repeating a line, there's a very high chance it's just blithering garbage
:p
 
Good thing I'm not an AI :P
 
o/
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah, right.
 
@user still feel like you can't jump in?
 
@AncientSwordRage Oh no, i was talking about caird's argument that Vyxal bad because bad
But yeah, I don't think I can help with the decompression thing
 
1:50 PM
@user np
@user I thought so
 
@AncientSwordRage I think the question is fine as is, but I am probably not the person to ask
As I in fact know every digit of Pi: 4.00...00
 
@N3buchadnezzar accurate in base pi/4
 
> Jon Skeet's password is the last 8 digits of pi
 
Chuck Norris recited every digit of pi, twice.
 
I can do that
0,0,1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9 easy
 
2:00 PM
Wow, deduplicated and sorted in ascending order! I bet even Chuck Norris can't do that
 
2:19 PM
CMQ: what color should a resource/website related to Jelly be? specifically, I am trying to make a more accessible compilation of resources for people learning Jelly because there aren't that many good available entry points right now
 
Ask Redwolf to provide some synaesthetic colour
(I can't remember what synaesthesia they have, so that might not be right btw) nvm it is right
 
lol lemme see if i can pull up their list and try to figure it out (or i'll just wait for them to show up)
 
Make it black and blink to white upon scroll or moving the page down
 
mmmm yes i too want to give people seizures
 
@hyper-neutrino i am not synaesthetic at all but for some reason jelly feels vaguely blue to me
 
2:26 PM
interesting. jelly (the substance, not the language itself) makes me immediately think of green ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
document.addEventListener('scroll', () => {document.body.style.backgroundColor = ['#000', '#fff'][window.n]; window.n ^= 1})
Oh god I just tried that and it worked first try
I don't know whether to be pleased or horrified by that
 
uh oh
 
I like ATO's colors but it might be too dark for a resource page
 
@hyper-neutrino i'm tempted to say jelly feels blue to me for some reason related to the blue default se theme so it's funny that you're thinking of the color of the new cg&cc theme
 
actually, that's far too regular; try document.addEventListener('scroll', () => {document.body.style.backgroundColor = ['#000', '#fff'][Math.random() * 2 & 1]})
 
2:29 PM
@hyper-neutrino I always think of red Jell-O when Jelly comes up
 
Jelly is definitely pink to me
I imagine none of this is helping
 
@UnrelatedString huh, interesting. jelly feels like light/lime-green so i'm not sure it has to do with the theme
 
interesting
 
it is very unproductive but it's interesting to see everyone's opinions/thoughts :p
 
Jelly feels blue to me too, but again it might be just because I like blue
 
2:30 PM
come to think of it a darkish pink could be evocative of actual jelly
 
anyone else do this with days of the week? Like Monday is red
probably stems from when I had day-of-the-week socks as a child lol
 
Maybe you have synesthesia too
 
I don't think so
 
I do it with STEM subjects, Programming is blue, math is red, chemistry is yellow and biology is green
 
@N3buchadnezzar Get out of my brain
 
2:32 PM
same for me; probably comes from the colours of my books for those subjects in school
 
Those are literally the colors I picked for my folders the last couple years
 
although maths was orange
probably the S makes it slightly different
 
i'm not sure i ever color coded subjects consistently lol
 
i think math is blue for me. science is green (i don't think i have color coding for sub-subjects), english is red maybe??? yeah I don't think I color coded consistently or even that much at all
 
I am a sucker for dark websites though
 
2:35 PM
Dark as in dark or dark?
 
??
 
dark, I think
 
Had to use Stylus (or the non data crawling version) for ages, but finally websites are starting to implement dark palettes
 
i think he means dark
 
@pxeger Dark as in disturbing enough to hurt your brain dark or lower brightness that hurts your eyes dark?
 
2:37 PM
> lower brightness
hurts your eyes
usually it's high brightness that kills my eyes
 
Dark websites are usually dark though
 
Conversely, dark websites aren't necessarily dark
 
Is there a dark theme for chat?
 
@hyper-neutrino Well, too much of anything, including high brightness, sucks
@N3buchadnezzar You could try Dark Reader, but that keeps the star button black, which means you can't see it :/
2
 
@N3buchadnezzar on some servers, yes, but no built-in one here; you'd have to find an extension/stylesheet loader/userscript or make one
 
2:43 PM
Since many golfing languages build on his work:
 
@hyper-neutrino Blue
 
ah
thanks :p
 
@user I can't tell if these stars happened because two people tried to flag me :P
 
?
 
@user Imagine not using the dropdown menu to star :P
 
2:53 PM
"I can't tell if (these stars happened because two people tried to flag me)" or "(I can't tell if these stars happened) because (two people tried to flag me)"?
 
@pxeger It's not funny or particularly interesting, so I can't tell why it was starred
@hyper-neutrino Yes :P
 
@user I tested if I could star a message using dark mode. Worked just fine. Forgot to remove it before 5m was gone
 
Oh
 
@hyper-neutrino What is the difference there, and did you find a color?
 
FYI Jelly is orange because of SCP-999
 
3:04 PM
@N3buchadnezzar in the former, it means user proposes that two people tried to flag their message and missed, thus starring it, and they are unsure if that is correct. in the latter, user says that two people tried to flag them, and thus they don't know if the stars actually happened
a) the latter doesn't make sense b) i know for a fact that nobody flagged user's message c) if someone did, caird would've sent their default "stop abusing flags" message :p
@AncientSwordRage ooh SCPs. i think i've seen 999 before
 
Here is some flag abuse
 
Those are just pirate flags in silhouette :P
 
You'll be suspended now
 
@user from a flagpole
 
Better wave a white flag before that happens
 
3:08 PM
Maybe we can use a strawpole to decide it
 
strawpoll
 
Just draw straws
 
@user pencil or ink?
 
ngn
what colours is the boolean flag?
 
black and white?
 
3:13 PM
#0000 and #111, of course
@AncientSwordRage Yeah
 
@user is the first supposed to be entirely transparent, or did you type too many 0s?
 
Typed too many 0s, but does it really matter?
Only one letter off (blank and white)
 
ngn
the cornish must be the descendants of the ancient booleans :)
(judging by their flag)
 
CMC Draw your flag
 
@N3buchadnezzar what flag
 
ngn
3:19 PM
@N3buchadnezzar 0 bytes: i surrender (white flag)
 
@N3buchadnezzar Here: they're drawn:
haha geddit funny because curtains drawn
 
Blasphemy!
 
@pxeger Honestly, given how prevalent the union jack has been recently due to the Euros, wouldn't surprise me to see these
 
I've seen a lot more England flags (St. George's cross), but very few union jacks
 
I think I've seen them at around equal amounts
 
3:24 PM
must be a regional thing
 
ngn
@pxeger the weather outside matches the curtains :)
 
Do people from England start each day by performing union jumping jacks?
 
No, the name refers to the fact that there's a secret society of people named Jack
These Jacks are jacked from performing jumping jacks and using car jacks
 
3:41 PM
Any more (SFW) meanings of jack?
 
@user *using car jacks to jack cars
 
Knucklebones, also known as snobs, astragalus, tali, dibs, fivestones, jacks, or jackstones, among many other names, is a game of dexterity played with a number of small objects that are thrown up, caught, and manipulated in various manners. It is ancient in origin and is found in various cultures worldwide. The name "knucklebones" is derived from the Ancient Greek version of the game, which uses the astragalus (a bone in the ankle, or hock) of a sheep. However, different variants of the game from various cultures use other objects, including stones, seashells, seeds, and cubes.Modern knucklebones...
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Tere's a game?
 
dammit, ninja'd
 
3:42 PM
TIL
 
There is also the saying of getting jacked, meaning working out a lot to get stronk
 
11 mins ago, by user
These Jacks are jacked from performing jumping jacks and using car jacks
> are jacked
 
ಠ_ಠ I've been working on my Jelly fork and stopped documenting every time I added a new builtin ("Oh, I'll just do them all at the end, this is taking too long"). It's now the end, and I need to look through all the atoms/quicks :/
 
3:44 PM
0
Q: Ploughed fields via moduli

Luis MendoLet \$R, C\$ be positive integers and let \$0 < s \leq 1\$. Consider the \$R \times C\$ matrix \$\mathbf M\$ defined as \begin{equation} M(i,j) = \frac{\mathrm{mod}\,(j, i^s)}{R^s}, \quad i = 1, \ldots, R, \quad j = 1, \ldots, C \end{equation} where \$\,\mathrm{mod}\,\$ denotes the modulo operati...

 
@pxeger I thought he meant they wore jackets >.<
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing lol
serves you right for not writing documentation as you go!
 
It was taking precious seconds :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing It's not going to be quick is it
 
@N3buchadnezzar Probably not
 
3:46 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing hate it when that happens
 
@Bubbler Rd3§ is a nice solution in Jelly
 
@UnrelatedString Nice :P
 
lol thanks
@Lynn ooh
 
caird you say you have been working on your fork, but last commit was 3 months ago?
I am not trying to throw shade, maybe your changes been made offline =)
 
Working locally
 
3:53 PM
and not pushing to git? ಠ_ಠ
 
Nah :P
I never bothered to figure out using git instead of GitHub
 
woo lotta people online
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Blasphemy
 
Why would I need git?
I only ever use GitHub as a code storage place :P
 
3:55 PM
To git gud obviously
 
uh, git is required to store stuff on github?
you're either using it directly or indirectly
 
I don;t care what I use indirectly :P
I don't have to learn how to use something if I only use it indirectly
 
oh well lmao
 
surely you want some form of version control
 

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