The Nineteenth Byte

00:00

Changed it to

> You can't use the words "is" or "are" within the first 40 characters in a tag wiki. I genuinely cannot think of a solid reason behind this. It just seems non-sensical to me.

Redwolf Programs

I'd remove "to me", it's a small change but I think it puts more of the focus onto the problem rather than specifically your opinion of it.

kops

@lyxal

oops

caird coinheringaahing

Fun fact by the way: the prefilled SE tags, such as status-review are even caught by this regex

kops

i still have no idea what to output in non-deterministic cases in your befunge chess

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms Good call

Lyxal

00:02

@kops so the idea is that you run the board as a program each time

And each time the program result might change

So you output the result of running the program each time

kops

ok so that makes it sound like the result of the simulation has to have the correct probability of outputting each result then

caird coinheringaahing

@Lyxal I'd suggest avoiding non-determinism in the first place

kops

which is what I was proposing

caird coinheringaahing

Unless the challenge is built around it

Lyxal

@kops no, the output is always either A, B or Tie

kops

00:03

yes... with some probability of each

like the board _AB has 50% chance of outputting A and 50% chance of outputting B, right? So any program which simulates it must do the same?

Lyxal

Yes

kops

and a program which always outputs A is invalid, as is one that outputs A with, say, 25% chance and B with 75%?

Lyxal

It depends on the board

Here's an example implementation: tinyurl.com/287hne83

kops

the board i just gave: _AB

Lyxal

@kops yes

caird coinheringaahing

00:08

Please stop mangling tag wiki excerpts

4

New Main Posts

0

Q: Duplicates in "n × hamming weight of n" sequence

Background The sequence in the title is A245788 "n times the number of 1's in the binary expansion of n" ("times" here means multiplication), which starts like this: 1, 2, 6, 4, 10, 12, 21, 8, 18, 20, 33, 24, 39, 42, 60, 16, 34, 36, 57, 40, 63, 66, 92, 48, 75, 78, 108...

Lyxal

@kops okay so I've removed the randomness

caird coinheringaahing

+40 in 3 minutes. MM is a rep farm :P

Lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing that is a good idea

Lyxal

00:25

Ight going on main in 5 minutes if there's no objections

New Main Posts

0

Q: Execute a Befunge Chess Board

Befunge Chess is an esolang mini-game I invented that is centered around the Befunge esolang. The general gist of the game is to make the instruction pointer land on a specific target cell while avoiding the opponent's target cell. Today's challenge isn't to play the game, but to simply execute a...

code-golf interpreter befunge

Lyxal

Wow it went quick today

Very impressive

Redwolf Programs

Can't FGITW because I have to go >:|

Why is the timing on new challenges always so inconvenient

user

00:41

user's law of new challenges: A new challenge will always be posted when it is most inconvenient for you.

caird coinheringaahing

@NewMainPosts I suspect there is an optimal winning strategy here (for the game, not the challenge)

A more interesting variant would be that Player A places the B square and Player B places the A square rather than them being randomly generated

Bubbler

I mostly post a new challenge shortly after 0:00 UTC

user

Exactly when it's most inconvenient for me :P

Bubbler

Apparently it's convenient for Arnauld though :P

user

Any time seems to be convenient for him :P

Argh, my solution doesn't output 264

Lyxal

00:54

Hey so idk if y'all know this but shrek is 20 years old today

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: (untitled), It seems \$2^n\$?

caird coinheringaahing

01:14

@Bubbler IIRC Arnauld is in France, which makes his posting times even weirder :P

Bubbler

wat :P

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's currently 2am or 3am in France, and he's still just posting JS answers :P

Bubbler

and golfing the code like 5 times and writing a full explanation

New Sandboxed Posts

01:33

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Collatz, Sort, Repeat code-golf math sequence Background The Collatz (or 3x+1) map (A006370) is defined as the following: $$ a(n) = \begin{cases} n/2, & \text{if $n$ is even} \\ 3n+1, & \text{if $n$ is odd} \end{cases} $$ Now, let's define the sequence \$s_0\$ as the infinite sequence of posit...

hyper-neutrino

@Lyxal i saw the instagram post from discord, lol

that's the only reason I knew

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino instagram? Normie.

I found out from reddit, the one and only good social media site

I wish you could do (x++)++ in java

because it would make the exam I'm doing rn a little bit nicer

hyper-neutrino

01:49

(x+=2)-2

Lyxal

as in very extremely fractionally easier

as in I don't want to write x += 2 because I'm really petty

hyper-neutrino

the better argument is that (x++)++ is one byte shorter than (x+=2)-2

Lyxal

the point is that I want x incremented because it's in a for loop

Bubbler

If (x++)++ works then x++++ should also work because there's no other way to tokenize that

Lyxal

but (x++)++ doesn't work

hyper-neutrino

02:04

x+++++y then becomes ambiguous as to whether it's (x++)++ + y or (x++) + (++y)

or x + ++(++y), if we allow that too

Redwolf Programs

Using ++ for increment already creates a ton of ambiguity

Like JS's refusal to accept x++y, or x+++y being either x++ + y or x + ++y

x++++y should actually be unambiguous I think

x++ + +y

hyper-neutrino

yeah

cuz postfix unary + isn't a thing

and x + +(+(+y)) would be ridiculous

Bubbler

I mean where nothing comes after x++++. I agree that it's ambiguous between two identifiers

Just tried x+++y and it is parsed as x++ +y

Redwolf Programs

I'm surprised JS is fine with that, but not x++++y

Three is ambiguous and four isn't, yet JS decides to allow the first and error on the second

Bubbler

I guess tokenizer eagerly consumes ++ which results in x++ ++<whatever>

Redwolf Programs

02:19

Yep, seems like a bit of a lazy (garfield lazy not haskell lazy) way of doing it

Bubbler

which is a syntax error right away because ++ token cannot come after ++ in any case

Redwolf Programs

x+ +y is so painful

Bubbler

---y is also invalid because it's -- -y

but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to be - --y instead

So here's a proposal: swap the functions of --y and -y, so ---y parses as -- -y and still means "negation of decrement of y"

Redwolf Programs

I hope you're joking :p

Bubbler

I'm not joking, I'm Bubbler

But yes, I'm joking :P

Schrodinger's joking

Redwolf Programs

02:28

I tried writing a language with ++ and -- once and made the same mistake, but the difference is I was 14 and not Microsoft :p

(or whoever was making JS at the time that was added)

hyper-neutrino

02:49

isn't this challenge just "determine if something is an element of a given list"?

or am I understanding it incorrectly

Lyxal

Not necessarily

hyper-neutrino

what would be a case where this doesn't work

Lyxal

Because English is weird, i can sometimes come after e in the absence of c, as one would be seeing from the word list.

hyper-neutrino

right, but if the input word is in the word list, it's not flipped, and if it's not in the word list, it's flipped, no?

New Main Posts

0

Q: I before E, except after C

You may be aware of the famous old rhyme, "I before E, except after C". It is a rule taught to aid in the spelling of certain English words. Quoting Wikipedia: If one is not sure whether a word is spelled with the digraph ei or ie, the rhyme suggests that the correct order is ie unless the prece...

code-golf string

Lyxal

02:57

Honestly I don't know

I don't even fully understand what the challenge is asking

@hyper-neutrino yeah it actually is

hyper-neutrino

in which case, surely this challenge exists already?

actually yeah do we have a challenge that's just (x,y)=>(x in y)

it wouldn't be very interesting because any reasonable language has that as a built-in and any golfing language has that as a one-byte, but do we have it?

Bubbler

@hyper-neutrino which makes C not a reasonable language :P

hyper-neutrino

it isn't :P /s

Bubbler

though of course a combination of qsort and bsearch will get the job done

hyper-neutrino

If this challenge is just that, I'm in favor of closing it as dupe of / editing it to just "x in y" since recently we seem to like setting trivial challenges that somehow don't exist yet :P

Bubbler

03:10

editing would be awesome in multiple sense

Lyxal

@NewMainPosts get hypothetically trivialised

hyper-neutrino

still, are we sure this isn't a dupe................

Bubbler

Unrelated: I love the fact that SE does not yet have a site about golf (as in real-world sport), so typing in "golf" on the site filter shows Code Golf as the only matching site

hyper-neutrino

oh, apparently you can't take the wordlist as input, you have to somehow find a way to determine if it's flipped or not using smart compressing/encoding/pattern recog/smth

@Lyxal delet

Bubbler

Now it feels like someone will surely try it in regex

hyper-neutrino

03:14

regexgolf time

Lyxal

@RedwolfPrograms you're welcome

Redwolf Programs

That was a really fun challenge

10/10

Lyxal

Not what I meant

Redwolf Programs

I know, the 11k

Lyxal

I now have screenshots of you at 10 and 11k

My collection is growing

Redwolf Programs

03:27

There are a bunch of cat hairs stuck to my screen because both of my cats seem to like rubbing their faces on the corners of my laptops

Lyxal

Wow

Bubbler

@hyper-neutrino I just made a simple check using SEDE, and there seems to be none.

Assumption is that "if there's such a challenge, we would surely have a Python answer in the form of lambda x,y:x in y"

Wasif

Hello, are we allowed to connect internet in the x in y challenge

Redwolf Programs

Why would you be

Wasif

Or Basically isn't it a text compression challenge instead?

@RedwolfPrograms you don't know why

If we can connect internet what we can do

Bubbler

03:30

It is a text compression challenge (at least to me)

Redwolf Programs

> Note that you are not given this list as input. You must find a way to determine, for any word in the list, whether or not it is flipped but you cannot take the list itself as input.

This implies you aren't allowed to sneak it from the internet either

Bubbler

Using internet to fetch the wordlist would be working around the entire premise

Wasif

I need to steal some ideas from http status code challenge

hyper-neutrino

stealing from internet is a standard loophole i'm 99% sure

Redwolf Programs

It is

hyper-neutrino

04:32

Apr 16 at 23:35, by hyper-neutrino

I think we should wait for the election to finish, then I will discuss with the other mods (just to confirm honestly, I don't think anyone would have a problem with any of the candidates), then we can discuss with all of the ROs what we want to do with the room in terms of community building events or ideas, and then bring a discussion to meta on whether or not we should host it in this room or bring it elsewhere to do it.

the blog seems to be on its way to starting up; I think we should definitely focus our attention on that for now but based on my suggested roadmap we can start drafting ideas for events soon (though we already have the suggestions post up, which I'll feature when the blog gets momentum)

also just posting as a reminder so if i forget to organize this someone else remembers or reminds me - this community, at least caird, is very good at not letting me forget about things i said i'd look into :p

New Meta Posts

05:05

0

Q: An update to our info box

In case anyone hasn't noticed, we have an info box in the top right corner above the official blog, meta features, and hot meta posts box. This isn't on every site and apparently isn't an easy setting to change and likely requires devs to edit it. As such, I have been instructed to post it for st...

discussion

2x-1

@Lyxal Please stop trying to make ChartZ go to sleep

It's pointless

hyper-neutrino

05:32

oh, the befunge chess challenge no longer requires the ?

that's probably a good change :P was looking forward to how to implement that well but it probably was unnecessary complication

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino it was causing a bit of confusion

@2x-1 it's not if we try hard enough

StackMeter

07:43

@2x-1 wth is a ChartZ

Bubbler

ChartZ was a temporary username of caird

StackMeter

ok

also I swear I missed so much of the good stuff yesterday and the day before then

Unrelated String

chartz was like a week or two ago

hyper-neutrino

caird changed their name back on april 6th (17 days ago)

StackMeter

ok

I mean the things that happened on april 21st

so @RedwolfPrograms really is a hivemind?

I can deal with that

we just have to overlaod it with too much information

hyper-neutrino

08:05

if you think about it (but also don't really think that hard), SOV languages are just stack-based languages

nouns push an item to the stack and verbs pop two items and apply an action dyadically

Wasif

@StackMeter welcome back after 300+ rep!

StackMeter

yes

Wasif

your next milestone?

500 rep?

StackMeter

yes#

StackMeter

08:20

why are all of the bounties for APL answers all of a sudden

Bubbler

APL bounty is not a new thing

hyper-neutrino

has the popularity of APL on CGCC gone up recently? or is it steadily increasing and nothing abnormal, or is it pretty stable

Bubbler

Slightly up I guess

Adám

Thank you for reminding me to award those…

StackMeter

About to earn myself 500 rep today

-a * -a will be beaten

Adám

08:30

What is "-a * -a"?

hyper-neutrino

there's a proof golf to prove that -a * -a => a * a (or vice versa, i forget which is which though i think all of the axioms are invertible)

rak1507

@StackMeter :O

Adám

CMC: Given a number a answer with (− a)⁻ ᵃ.

rak1507

*⍥-⍨

Adám

Huh, you can golf that more.

rak1507

08:35

oh *⍨-

Adám

Yeah.

hyper-neutrino

Jelly, 3 bytes: N*N (look ma, no unicode!)

John Dvorak

I believe this works in arbitrary fields: -a * -a = -1 * a * -1 * a = -1 * -1 * a * a = a * a

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Why isn't N* enough?

hyper-neutrino

@Adám the N sets the current value to -a, then the * evaluates (current value) ^ (left argument), which would just be (-a)^a

Adám

08:38

I thought Jelly would recycle a lone argument if an atom needed two.

rak1507

@JohnDvorak you're only allowed to use the ring axioms

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Ah, got it.

rak1507

@Adám no it will do implicit input afaik

hyper-neutrino

@rak1507 no, only quicks will ever take STDIN implicitly

rak1507

oh

hyper-neutrino

08:39

atoms use arguments or the current value; the way they group and which values they use is dependent on the link's overall arity/adicity

rak1507

08:50

@StackMeter have you found a shorter proof of (-a) * (-a) = a * a

Razetime

09:46

`````

hyper-neutrino

well hello there

Razetime

hi electron

hyper-neutrino

hello erasemoment (idk i just threw raze and time into thesaurus)

Anush

in python, what is a golfed way to count the number of leading zeros in a string? I.e. '00010010100000011001011111001010'

Razetime

@hyper-neutrino i am eraserhead

2

Anush

09:51

next(i for i, e in enumerate(bitstring + '1') if e == '1') is my effort but it's not short

hyper-neutrino

@Anush s.find("1") should work, no?

rak1507

no

hyper-neutrino

or if you need to handle all zeroes case, (s+"1").find("1")

rak1507

oh maybe

hyper-neutrino

actually, does your string only have 0 and 1? not clear from your example since you didn't guarantee that

Anush

09:52

@hyper-neutrino only 0 and 1

hyper-neutrino

wait, from the code you came up with, yes it's only 0 and 1

Anush

(s+"1").find("1") is nice

you get better quality code here :)

hyper-neutrino

better quality is... debatable. shorter :) (but on CGCC, short = quality)

Anush

:)

another python question. I have a 256 bit binary python string. E.g it looks like '0b1011101101001000111011101010111110000101011101111000000010111001011100100100111001111100000101001111100011101111100001101010011101001101110111000010001110011010101100110011000111000010111110101100101010111101000110111100101000010010100000011001011111001010'

I want to cut it up into bitstrings of length 32 ignoring the very annoying 0b at the front

really it comes from bin(int.from_bytes(hashlib.sha256("a".encode()).digest(), 'little')) so maybe this can be avoided?

I want to count the number of leading zeros for every 32 bit bitstring in that hash

Manish Kundu

So you're only interested in the number of leading zeroes in every 32 bits?

Adám

10:11

@Anush So 1 1 0 5 0 1 2 0?

StackMeter

I think I've done it

I think I've conquered -a * -a = a * a

rak1507

have you validated it? how many steps??! this is exciting

Adám

@Anush You really should learn APL for your data mangling needs. It is +/∧\11⎕DR⍪323⎕DR⍎¨2↓'0b101…010' Try it!

rak1507

@Adám ok, now do the sha256 hash too

StackMeter

@rak1507 min 18 is my say

rak1507

10:17

oh, so you've proved the minimum number of steps is 18?

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Write a fast-growing assembly function Synopsis Your goal is to implement the (asymptotically) fastest growing function within bounded code on a fictional CPU utilizing a quite limited, yet (probably) turing-complete instruction set. Environment The CPU utilizes unbounded RAM as well as two regis...

StackMeter

takes two steps to get a 0, two steps to transfer it, and 5 to remove the -a * 0, which must be done twice, so min 9 * 2 = 18 steps

rak1507

have you rigorously proven it?

StackMeter

yes I think so

rak1507

cool

hyper-neutrino

10:19

are you sure that method is necessarily required to solve this and no other approach is possible though? this doesn't seem like a very rigorous proof, if one at all

rak1507

yeah ^

Adám

@rak1507 The Dyalog Crypto Lib has that.

rak1507

great! let me just install it with the dyalog package manager

oh wait

@Adám I think it's 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 3, leading zeros not leading ones

Adám

Oh, yeah, then my code is missing a ~

Lyxal

@hyper-neutrino general kenobi!

StackMeter

10:35

@rak1507 I'm certain I've proved and justified my answer

rak1507

are you going to post it on the meta question or as a comment on the original one? or just in here?

StackMeter

on the original thing

as an answer post

caird coinheringaahing

Leave a comment

StackMeter

ok

where would I link the proof

caird coinheringaahing

It's not appropriate as an answer, even if it is interesting, as it doesn't answer the question. Maybe write up a gist or similar document? Pastebin maybe?

StackMeter

10:40

k

ok

Anush

@ManishKundu yes!

@Adám I think the first number should be 0 as the 32 bit bitstring is 101110110...

@rak1507 yes

Adám

@Anush 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 3 then.

rak1507

CMC: prove a*0 = 0 and validate with antony74.github.io/fol

Anush

cool.. now I just need python code!

converting to a string is clearly a silly idea

Adám

Here's the APL code. ― if you knew APL, you could translate it. Or use Py'n'APL…

Anush

10:44

@Adám :)

StackMeter

done

@rak1507 it is done

rak1507

link?

StackMeter

pastebin.com/raw/DieBKpA1

rak1507

not convinced that it is fully rigorous but someone with more knowledge would have to check

StackMeter

ok

let me explain

how else would you turn (-a) to a except by seperating the two?

Neil

10:58

@Anush len(s.split('1')[0]) ?

rak1507

@Anush tio.run/…

@Neil this is nice

Lyxal

11:14

@Adám pineapple! I get the name joke!

Adám

@Lyxal apl.wiki/Humour#Apples

Anush

@rak1507 that's great but I am not sure it makes sense to make the string at all. bin(int.from_bytes(hashlib.sha256(b"a").digest(), 'little')) is already quite long

rak1507

yeah, you could maybe use the hexdigest

Anush

@Neil that is cool

rak1507

or there might be something cleverer

Anush

11:17

I come here for cleverer!

StackMeter

the APL joke funnny

caird coinheringaahing

12:49

@hyper-neutrino login? Never been used on a question, but shows up in the tag list

Lyxal

So why do we have it and how is it still there?

Aren't tags supposed to commit self delete after a while if not used?

caird coinheringaahing

Check the message I replied to :P

Lyxal

That's what I meant

I mean why should it need nuking if it should auto delete

caird coinheringaahing

Because for some reason, there are some tags on the site that just haven't been caught by the auto-deletion scripts

I think someone asked on meta and the response was basically ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Lyxal

Then also consider data-dump

No questions yet still alive

caird coinheringaahing

12:54

That's an SE pre-created one, every site has it

It's like the red meta tags, but anyone can use it

Lyxal

Oh I didn't know that

Maybe login is one of those tags?

Looks like it is

caird coinheringaahing

Potentially. Though, I suppose that someone can use either of them if/when needed, we might as well nuke them both

Lyxal

So just nuke all with 0 asked questions and create tags as needed

caird coinheringaahing

Aside from the red ones and synonyms, that's how the system is supposed to work

Lyxal

Then that's the problem solved

@RedwolfPrograms Inb4 you get a small amount of ash work done today because I'm gonna go sleep now

o/

caird coinheringaahing

13:09

data-dump login rss openid profile-page have never been used on a question, but haven't been deleted

Because they aren't in the revision history of any question, that means that they were created outside of the normal tag creation process (posting a question with that tag)

Redwolf Programs

13:27

@hyper-neutrino But there are also verbs like run or sleep that don't have objects, so there are monads too

And ones like give can be triads: I gave the details to Tim

user

They're variadic, then

Redwolf Programs

I do like the idea of a stack based natlang though, although tacit or postfix is better IMO

user

But it isn't really stack based, especially since it's mixfix

@RedwolfPrograms You can combine stack based and postfix

Redwolf Programs

Disgusting

StackMeter

so, I'm trying to beat loader.c

in Python

any ideas

Redwolf Programs

13:31

Type declarations are the closest things to adjectives I guess

user

Use PyPi?

StackMeter

ok

user

@RedwolfPrograms Also annotations

Redwolf Programs

Adverbs would be like quicks I guess

Sort of

StackMeter

I've switched to PyPi

what's step 2

user

13:32

You'd find J interesting

It has parts of speech like English

Redwolf Programs

More interested in the reverse :p

user

ꚍ is the closest I could get to the reverse of J :P

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino that just sounds like J with extra steps :P

StackMeter

ok

anyone know how to beat loader.c without just extending loader.c

Bubbler

14:10

@StackMeter no one on the Earth has figured it out yet

caird coinheringaahing

Any feedback?

Anush

argh... why does bin(int.from_bytes(hashlib.md5(symbol.encode()).digest(), "little"))[2:] always start 0b1 no matter what symbol is?

Bubbler

@Anush Because it is nonzero integer converted to binary

Redwolf Programs

@Anush What are you trying to do?

Bubbler

which does not include leading zeros

Wezl

14:15

somehow manages to create a dramatic entrance, despite being here for an hour and not having confetti

Bubbler

@Anush If you want fixed width bit string, try bin(...)[2:].zfill(n) where n is the desired length

Anush

@Bubbler ah that sounds good!

StackMeter

@Bubbler well damn

Bubbler

14:35

@StackMeter If someone managed to nontrivially beat loader.c, then they would surely have written an answer to "larger than Loader's number" already, that new number would be named "[their username]'s number", and we would have a new challenge to golf "larger than [their username]'s number"

2

StackMeter

@Bubbler i will be that person

caird coinheringaahing

"Golf a 2 meter stack" :P

StackMeter

:P

Bubbler

Under my difficulty scale, nontrivially solving it is roughly of level Legendary

Apr 21 '20 at 9:21, by Bubbler

Though I'd label it as hard, but then the difficulty scale on CGCC goes like easy, medium, hard, insane, OMG, legendary.

caird coinheringaahing

@Bubbler It'd be interesting to find examples for each of those levels

user

14:39

I'd like some examples of easy challenges /s

Wezl

hello world is easy ... for some languages

golfing it further than it has been golfed in BF for example is hard

Bubbler

Insane is for some hardcore mathy challenges (like knot theory) and extreme CS ones (like inverting regex or planar embedding of a graph)

Legendary includes Tetris GoL

I can't find a suitable challenge for OMG though

Anush

hmm.. anyone know a way to compute this for m = 8 ?

Bubbler

Is it even possible?

Have you tried WolframAlpha or Math.SE?

Anush

@Bubbler I tried wolfram alpha but maybe incompetently. I just want a numerical answer

Bubbler

14:55

If Wolfram can't, I suspect no human can

Anush

@Bubbler I don't think I used wolfram alpha properly. I am trying scipy.integrate.quad now

it gives me 0.19980540202634153

so I must have used wolfram alpha incorrectly

well 0.6256087109372573 for the whole thing

maybe it should be a golfing challenge :)

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing merged into "user-interface" (though it doesn't actually matter what i merge into)

Anush

int((log2((2+u)/(1+u)))^8, u = 0.. infinity) doesn't seem to terminate for me on wolfram alpha which is strange

Luis Mendo

@Anush I got that in Matlab too

Anush

got there in the end with the same answer python gives instantly. Python FTW

@LuisMendo thanks!

user

15:13

@Anush Not sure how much this helps, but you can turn that into $\frac{c}{\int_0^\infty(\ln(2+u)-\ln(1+u))^m}$, I think

pxeger

(for ChatJax++ users):

$$\frac{c}{\int_0^\infty(\ln(2+u)-\ln(1+u))^m}$$

Bubbler

This works

Anush

@Bubbler thanks. I got it to work in the end

@user thanks

@pxeger thanks

user

You can probably integrate by hand if you know $m$ is 8, but it'd be painful and Wolfram Alpha is always an easier option :P

Anush

@user scipy integrate did it instantly in python

user

15:19

Nice

Bubbler

I don't think there's an elementary solution to that integral. Wolfram failed to find one

user

More reason to use Wolfram, I guess

hyper-neutrino

15:38

well this formed a consensus quickly lol

+10/-0 to +0/-2

caird coinheringaahing

That might be the quickest consensus we've seen in a while :P

pxeger

I feel like, even though it's not actually site policy, the sidebar should just say "challenges must be posted in the sandbox first", to discourage victims of the Dunning-Kruger effect

hyper-neutrino

we could go with something like "Please post to the sandbox first"; more assertive than "it is highly recommended" IMO, but not inconsistent with our true policy

though maybe that would be subject to the same issues as what we have now anyway

pxeger

Drop the "please"? Or would that be too unfriendly

Anush

@Bubbler yes. I think there are only numerical approximations

@pxeger the problem is that sandbox is not a great experience quite often

you post there, a few days later there are criticisms. You don't agree with all of them but fix the ones you do then silence. Then you post to main and it gets trashed for completely different reasons

hyper-neutrino

15:46

maybe we should set up a room or some channel to prioritize and coordinate getting quality feedback to new users so they don't get a poor impression of the sandbox. not sure how practical smth like that could be

pxeger

Problem being that <20rep users can't use chat

hyper-neutrino

i meant for us to look through their proposals together to leave feedback via comments as always

pxeger

oh ok

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