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12:00 AM
getting a job from a reference on my favourite site
 
Oh right, I once learned Haskell, Idris, Agda, Coq
 
@Adám Are there remote APL jobs up for grabs?
@Bubbler I've always wanted to learn those last three
 
@user same
 
@user Yes. RGS did an internship, and is now scheduled to start regular work very soon.
 
@Adám Cool. Is there a website for this? (When I look up "apl jobs", I get weird results)
 
12:03 AM
@user For Coq, you can start with this awesome textbook
 
@Bubbler Thanks!
@Adám Thanks!
 
and you can find some theorem-proving problems on codewars.com
 
@user Sure, although I'd recommend going the competition → internship → job route.
 
@Bubbler I'll be sure to check that out
@Adám Yeah, I'm definitely not competent enough in APL yet to land a job - I'm still struggling to write code golf answers, but I'd love to work with APL at least part-time some time
 
12:07 AM
@Adám what difference does registering the Dyalog APL download make?
As in, what benefits are there over just downloading it unregistered?
 
@Lyxal Easy access to updates for a while.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:38 AM
0
Q: Is this an L-shape?

BubblerBackground An L-shape is defined as a polyomino which can be made by extending two rectangular legs in orthogonal directions from a full square (called a pivot). The size of the square should be at least 1, and the lengths of the two legs should also be at least 1. These are some examples of L-sh...

 
2:17 AM
@RedwolfPrograms do you mind if I create a chat room for your golfing language?
 
Sure, go ahead. Just add me as an owner.
 
There's some things I want to discuss without cluttering tnb
 
2:29 AM
I forgot how stressful it is to hurriedly hack together a JS answer to a new question, frantically checking after every line you write to make sure someone hasn't sniped you
 
laughs in uses a language no one else uses
 
It's so tempting to just write First as the explanation
> Last time I was this early GolfScript was still competitive
 
B get in the unnamed room
 
But...but it's not unnamed anymore
 
3:27 AM
In retrospect, codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/… is probably inspired by the C preprocessor.
(it's almost the only way the preprocessor can do conditional.)
I kind of want to post the explanation for the technique in codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/204896/69850 somewhere, but apart from the "usefulness" proof, it remains not easy to prove that it's deterministic.
perhaps it's not that hard.
 
I guess, if the input method is from #include, external nondeterminism from something like #include"/dev/urandom" should be a non-issue
 
There's a full list of predefined macros at gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/…
 
yeah, I was just about to suggest that
 
@Bubbler Is it?
 
Erm, the language being bash might be a problem
 
3:33 AM
@Bubbler Why? There's no way the program can invoke bash.
 
I mean, the source code can #include arbitrary files to introduce external nondeterminism
Or can we treat all #includes as inputs?
 
The question says "takes a program and an input", but it would be a little weird to say "the input is the hard drive plus the content of the RAM"...
Nevertheless include a sed command to take out the include is trivial.
 
^
and anything else that accesses the disk (I think I've seen something like #import)
so basically we need to pre-sanitize the source and then feed it to cpp
 
the technique is pretty interesting, but it might not fit in this question.
Perhaps I can post to stackoverflow.com/questions/3136686/… instead, but... weird.
 
That doesn't exactly fit the SO question either
 
3:41 AM
Nevertheless there's an answer that explains the defer/obstruct mechanism there.
Although many people misinterpret it as that the C preprocessor is Turing-complete.
I'll draft the explanation here.
 
3:56 AM
Regarding the other sandbox challenge: currently there are only 5 voters on that meta answer; nevertheless if someone actually posts it on the main site people might notice the meta post and vote on it, which makes the result invalid.
(I think I have a 20-ish-lookup a-bunch-of-instructions solution, by the way. Doubt it's t would be possible to get smaller than that.)
On the other hand, minimum number of instructions is obviously 1.
That having said, implementing that is prohibitively difficult. Perhaps specialize it for this year will make it easier for most people.
 
4:13 AM
the explanation is unexpectedly long.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:14 AM
@RedwolfPrograms wydm we're no longer friends?
Can people not have preferences?
 
Your chat bio
Gosh does no one remember what they write?
 
Calibri looks so much nicer though!
Arial's kerning is weird on most monitors I've used
 
Arial Unicode where it at
For all my serious school work, I used arial
@RedwolfPrograms you've'n't used a mac book then
Because you always have long ctrl and alt keys
 
5:39 AM
arial sux
that is a universal truth
 
Arial's fine for headings I guess, but I prefer Calibri's appearance for smaller text like in documents. It just feels...softer? Smaller? Not sure.
 
@Razetime et tu brutus?
@RedwolfPrograms then rename it
you're the room owner
so you can change it
 
Wait, why'd you un-owner yourself?
 
because it's your golfing language
It didn't feel right being ro of not my own lang
and a lang I haven't significantly contributed to thus far
 
Might be useful since we're in different timezones
 
5:51 AM
It's up to you
 
It's fine for now though
 
I figured I'd let you be the one to control the room
 
 
4 hours later…
9:56 AM
0
Q: How long to paint this house?

Simon RochwergHere is the problem, for which I can only think of an iterative solution and have not found a closed formula. You need to paint a house with R rooms. For each room there are four walls and one ceiling, which all have the same dimensions and need C coats of paint. You can't paint the next coat ...

 
10:21 AM
I'm so nervous after posting my first x86 machine code answer!
I'm afraid that something might go wrong in that answer.
And most importantly, it's too short.
It just doesn't feel right to post such a short answer like this.
 
@2x-1 you can always make it longer if you want
 
@Lyxal No I can't, I'll be downvoted if I do so, for not golfing my programs well on purpose.
 
@2x-1 not if you make it look like it can't be shortened
 
Q: What's your CGCC.SE question record? This is a calculator thing that takes 5 numbers (labels in the link) and outputs your record. I think you have to be 10k+ to see your deleted questions, using this search
 
@Lyxal Remember that x86 machine code is golfier than most other practical languages. People will see whether it's golfed or not.
 
10:31 AM
@2x-1 It's good preparation if you ever start using golfing languages :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing 0.75
 
@Lyxal Mine's still at 0.44 :/
 
And I have to ask -10 well received questions to get a positive score
 
I'm closer to getting the Socratic badge than I am the Inquisitive badge
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing Are closed & deleted counted for both c and d?
 
10:35 AM
@Lyxal Go delete a bunch then :P
@Adám Yes
 
How on earth do I even ask -10 questions?
 
A negative, closed, deleted question really knocks your record
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing but that'd make it worse!
 
@Lyxal Well, if you delete 10 questions, you'll have a record of 0.5 :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing 0.89
 
10:37 AM
Which is my goal :P
 
@Adám wait so how many deleted/closed questions have you asked?
There must be some to not have a score of 1.
 
I remember some of Adam's earlier questions were closed as dupes
A trap all too easy to fall into
 
@Lyxal 5 closed of which 2 deleted.
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing and hth do you only have 0.44?
You must have had some bad streak of question asking
 
@Lyxal When I first joined, I didn't know about the Sandbox. Cue like 7 shitty questions, which got downvoted, closed and then I deleted them
 
10:41 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing ah. I was going to say that bad quality questions wouldn't be something I'd ever associate you with
 
Add in just a sprinkle of bad luck with actually decent questions and I've had enough closed/deleted/negative to make it a proper task to get back to 0.5
Only 12 questions away tho :)
 
Can I donate my -10?
 
@Lyxal It's one of the reasons I push so hard for new users to use the Sandbox
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing wait does the formula count tips questions?
 
Speaking of: Any feedback on this and this?
@Lyxal Yeah, any and all questions
 
10:43 AM
Okay thank goodness
 
It's taken from SE's metric on a good question record, which they use for Curious, Inquisitive and Socratic badges, so it just treats every question the same
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it seemed to have worked on me. I've been using the sandbox since my first question
Although admittedly I only started asking questions about 3 months after actually getting serious about code golf
Actually it's 5 months
CMQ: what was it like posting your first challenge?
 
I was actually going to sandbox mine today but then I just sort of didn't
 
Let me just find my first challenge :P
 
@UnrelatedString you totally should
All this activity and you're yet to ask a single question
 
10:48 AM
@Lyxal This question, it was fun :P
 
part of it is I'm trying to get my needlessly complicated prime-based solution to it to work first
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing why the account deletion?
 
@Lyxal Because I got bored with the site after posting 2 questions so left and deleted my account cause I didn't think I'd come back. Then got reintroduced to it as an answerer instead of an asker so made a new account
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing and that's where the rabbit hole of esolang creation started I suppose! ;)
 
I think my first answer was on some kind of guest account, but then I came back after doing something on SO
 
10:52 AM
This was my first challenge back on the site, and I'd been answering for about a month before I posted that. Don't think I used the Sandbox for it tho :/
 
@Lyxal Well, this was my first answer :P
 
I've seen and had worse account names :P
 
10:55 AM
Arguably, I have a worse username :P
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing examples?
@cairdcoinheringaahing I beg to differ
It's unique and stands out
 
Everyone knows caird :P
 
Exactly
 
Lyxal on the other hand? Isn't that the language that beat Dennis at Fizzbuzz? :P
 
Hey don't judge my absolute lack of ability to name things
 
10:57 AM
"Naming things is hard, okay!" - An ancient programmer's proverb
5
 
Unoriginality is cool sometimes...
@cairdcoinheringaahing reintroduced from hnq or from somewhere else?
 
@Lyxal From a friend whose a user here
 
when did the Vyxal FizzBuzz answer become so huge
 
Since I edited in the explanation that I typed in 2020,didnt think to add to the answer, and realised I should to have a shot at winning a best of CGCC award
Why else?
 
which award?
 
11:01 AM
...
 
Best Explanation
 
Awww fizzbuzz doesn't have a specialised tag
Because I'd get it pretty soon
Currently I've answered in 10 different languages
 
You mean this tag?
For that, you're the 16th top answerer
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing 😶
How'd'n't I see that.
 
do the high throughput fizzbuzz
 
11:09 AM
Yesnt
It is far too late to do it today
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing this language always cracks me up
 
What are you an egg or something?
 
@Lyxal I posted it and got a billion comments asking for clarification
and then I check it after a week
and choose an accepted answer cause I thought that sounded right
it's still going +1 -1 +1 -1 even now
@cairdcoinheringaahing 0.833333333333
 
11:28 AM
@Razetime I tried to break maths with my first question
Funnily enough my broken maths seemed to be broken in itself
There were only a few clarification comments. The rest were all just debating the logic of the question
And I thought that getting it into the hnq list was something special... Ha
Every question asked here that isn't closed and is code golf gets onto the hnq list
Change my mind
 
fairly many non-trivial code-golf questions don't get there
 
11:47 AM
@Lyxal Better still, use two languages that no one else uses!
 
@Neil you sir have clearly bested me
I tip my hat in respect
 
12:09 PM
@Lyxal actually, make that three
@Razetime that's just the generic HTTP response on that address, my "website" only exists on HTTPS
 
@Neil hm, your profile goes to the http response.
and the https response is a pokemon site?!
 
oh right, I did have an HTTP site at one point
it was held together with duct tape and Perl and I gave up maintaining it
ponders adding a redirect for the HTTP site
 
@Neil so your homepage is a pokemon battle website
 
yeah, I started archiving all of the formats from the main website so now I've got about 500 or some such
and I still contribute bug fixes from time to time
 
wow
 
12:33 PM
latest one was a fix for ground immunity via magnet rise during an inverse battle
 
I don't play enough pokemon for that
I've played most of the titles till about
X&Y
 
12:57 PM
@Razetime Platinum's the best Pokemon game and you can't convince me otherwise :P
 
well, you're correct, so I don't need to convince you
 
1:16 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing not seen a proper let's play of it myself but I hear it's the one with the distortion world so it can't be bad
 
1:34 PM
My first question got auto deleted it seems :(
It was closed as a dupe with +2 score and no answers, so not really worth keeping, but it was still kind nice to be able to see my first question and compare it to my new ones
 
CMP: How many times have you got 200 rep in a single day? (You can find it from your progress towards Epic or Legendary bagde)
 
For me it's 68 including today, though I just lost an opportunity because I got 20 upvotes and a bounty on the same day
 
1:49 PM
@Bubbler Problem for Dennis/Martin: they already have Legendary :P
 
@Bubbler 43
 
SE can't count beyond 150, that's a pity
 
Hm, I've posted "Help SE transpose tables". Maybe we need a "Help SE count beyond 150"…
 
@Bubbler 18
probably all from bounties
 
2:17 PM
@Lyxal my first question was closed pretty quickly (dupe), but it was still my largest source of rep :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing mine is exactly 0
 
@Wezl Well, it could be lower :P
Nevermind it stays at 0 :/
 
apparently it's undefined if you don't put any questions. Is that higher or lower than 0?
js says neither, but it also says it's not ==
 
2:37 PM
@pppery Thank you.
 
hi all
 
3:05 PM
@Lyxal My username is "user."
 
3:17 PM
@Bubbler I'm between Epic and Legendary... well, probably still at Epic. But I can't be bothered to start tracking my progress on my next badge, so I don't know for sure
 
 
1 hour later…
4:25 PM
My "catch the fruit challenge has been in the sandbox for a while, any feedback? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/20474/80214
 
4:48 PM
CMC Give a list of short lower case strings, count how many start with a vowel.
 
magic as ever :)
*Given
 
@Anush It translates to "ead of ach, then, for ach letter, is it in (e) Øẹ (the string "aeiou"). Sum, thereby counting the ones
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing it's very nice
 
I think my new golfing lang will be able to do that in six
 
5:02 PM
@Anush is y a vowel?
 
@Anush Scala, 26 bytes: _.count("aeiou"toSet _(0))
@thedefault. It's Schrodinger's vowel, you can decide it randomly :)
 
cool
 
@user wow, Scala as a general-purpose language is less than half my general purpose language's byte count
(sorry you can't TIO online)
 
@Wezl Eh, it's great for stuff like this where it has library functions, but not for others. What language is that, though? It looks interesting.
 
@user concurr, a functional lispy language
 
5:11 PM
@Wezl That looks like a really nice language!
 
@Anush Retina 0.8.2, \b[aeiou] 9 bytes
(sorry for the edits, no preview in chat)
 
sorry, the solution I posted was incorrect, here's a correct version
 
@Razetime Looks pretty good overall, but as SunnyMoon said, I think you're leaving a little too much to answerers (determining what visual cues to use, speed, etc.).
 
5:27 PM
@Wezl golfed
 
0
Q: How long to paint this house?

Simon RochwergHere is the problem, for which I can only think of an iterative solution and have not found a closed formula. You need to paint a house with R rooms. For each room there are four walls and one ceiling, which all have the same dimensions and need C coats of paint. You can't paint the next coat ...

 
 
> (I think concurr is a good language because (: ;) is valid syntax)
Me too ;)
@NewMetaPosts Can someone help close this?
 
6:00 PM
CMC find the 2021th number that is neither in the 3 nor 5 times table
 
Starting from where? Is 1 the first? Or 0?
 
1 is the first
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Simon RochwergHere is the problem, for which I can only think of an iterative solution and have not found a closed formula. You need to paint a house with R rooms. For each room there are four walls and one ceiling, which all have the same dimensions and need C coats of paint. You can't paint the next coat u...

 
print(30300) :p
Wait no
 
3788?
 
Yeah 3788
I had the conditions backward
 
@RedwolfPrograms Wait, I just got the same answer in Scala
Why is it printing 30330?
 
You're checking if it's divisble by 3 and 5, not neither
 
6:12 PM
Ah, I see
@Anush Scala, 43 bytes, then: Stream.from(1).filter(n=>n%3>0&n%5>0)(2020)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:13 PM
very nice answers
 
7:34 PM
@RedwolfPrograms either one or the other
 
Oh, right
 
Does any one know a nice way to work this out by hand?
 
I guess because out of every 15 adjacent positive integers there will always be 9 that have that property you could just do some multiplication or something to get a close answer
(2021/9)*15 gets you pretty close
 
8:06 PM
@Anush Use your hands to type in a program, then use your hands to use the mouse/enter key to execute that program.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

MakonedeQuines, error quines, hello world, polyglots, oh my! Introduction A quine is a program that outputs its own source code. For example, a well-known Python quine is _="_=%r;print(_%%_,end='')";print(_%_,end=''). Running it outputs _="_=%r;print(_%%_,end='')";print(_%_,end=''), therefore it is a val...

 
8:25 PM
@user that's a no then :)
@RedwolfPrograms that's nice
 
9:11 PM
0
Q: Peano arithmetic at compile time

userPeano numbers represent nonnegative integers as zero or successors of other Peano numbers. For example, 1 would be represented as Succ(Zero) and 3 would be Succ(Succ(Succ(Zero))). Task Implement the following operations on Peano numbers, at compile time: Addition Subtraction - You will never be ...

 
 
1 hour later…
10:32 PM
 
10:50 PM
@Lyxal You new fangled golfing languages and your 1 byte string constant builtins :P
 
2
2 byte
 
How does it work then?
 
If you're gonna stick your tounge out at least get your facts right
ƛhkv$c
1. Over the input list,
2. Push the first character of each item
3. Push the string "aeiou" (kv)
4. Swap those two values
5. Check to see if they are contained
The s flag sums the resulting list
 
I think I can get 6 bytes no flag in Ash
 
@Lyxal How does c work?
 
10:54 PM
Analogous to a in b
 
1. Count the items that this functions returns true for:
 
Oh, so ƛ turns everything after it into a "for-each" style loop?
 
@RedwolfPrograms 2. Check if in list
3. A two byte literal for aeiou or aeiouy
 
@cairdcoinheringaahing eh kinda. Normally, one would write λhkv$c;M, which pushes a lambda and maps it over
That fancy strike through lambda is a mapping lambda
It automatically maps the lambda over the vector
 
You new fangled golfing languages and your 1 byte string constant builtins command line flags :P
 
10:58 PM
Does that make mine new but not fangled?
 
Looks at japt... You mean him?
\s
 
Idk I get the intent behind the rules, but I've never liked answers that are 2 or 3 bytes shorter because "the <> command line flag does <behaviour>", and they don't get counted as extra bytes
 
Same
Was there ever a point where they counted as bytes rather than separate languages?
 
Although, I prefer answers do that than counting extra bytes
 
Apparently so
 
11:00 PM
@RedwolfPrograms Yeah, before 2018 IIRC
 
If they were counted as bytes I wouldn't use them
 
Lemme just find the meta post about it
 
Because there'd be no point
 
44
A: Command-line flags on front ends

user45941Let's solve the flag problem once and for all Rather than dealing with inconsistent schemes for adding flags, let's just consider each separate invocation of a compiler/interpreter/whatever a separate implementation (and thus a separate language by our rules). This comes with many benefits: The ...

 
I've actually been stung once by the "flags make a different language" part
 
11:02 PM
Point 1 is the only bit of that I disagree with, because while we technically compete against the same language, I look at 05AB1E/Japt/Husk for comparison with my Jelly answers, and cmd-line flags can skew that
 
05ab1e doesn't have flags
 
@Lyxal It doesn't need them :P
05AB1E's weak type system is irritatingly good :/
 
But you can't use functions with 05ab1e
Making it useless for things like zip with
 
Well, byte counting rules for flags were even more obscure, like <space>-x being 3 bytes or whatnot
 
@Lyxal It has an "eval-as-05AB1E" function, that's good enough
@Bubbler Agreed that it's better this way, it just feels cheap when a language uses a flag to save a byte to win
Heads up y'all: I'm going to edit the Best Of nominations into the Voting phase in 2 days (Jan 30th), so you have 2 days to make any more nominations
 
11:13 PM
I'm done with nominations
As in I've nominated everything I feel to do so
I'm recalculating the language ELOs in 3 days
:( I can't find my fake charcoal explanation
There once was a CMQ or something here talking about how explanations could very well be faked
And I found a random charcoal answer and tried to give an inaccurate token by token explanation
Never mind I found it
 
11:39 PM
@Lyxal May we see it?
 
@Lyxal Permission to notify Neil of this <strike>fake</strike>alternate explanation?
 
Already have i think
But sure
 

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