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5:00 PM
y can't I have variable-length lookbehinds ;-;
In Retina you can
Most flavors complain
.NET lets you though
@WheatWizard How do the multiple spheres work? What makes 111 different from 211?
@Riker I don't know what to call them
5:02 PM
Most flavors are okay with bounded-length lookbehinds. Unbounded-length lookbehinds are a different beast.
@Phoenix The difference is where the poles of the sphere are located, there are 4 corners but only 2 of them are poles, so that means there are two ways to make spheres.
CMC: Given an integer, compute 2*n-1
@BusinessCat I think you can use array block # to shorten it.
Oh that's true I totally forgot about that
5:04 PM
@mbomb007 n->2*n-1
I used var-length lookbehinds.
@BusinessCat CJam, 34 bytes: q3/_"AUG"a#>{"UGAUAAUAG"3/\f=:|}#)
I think I can do better...
5:08 PM
CJam, 32 bytes: q3/_"AUG"a#>{"UGAUAAUAG"3/\e=}#)
@mbomb007 τD
Actually or Jelly?
Can't tell when only two bytes
The one I know how to use :P
That could mean either one.
Also the Jelly codepage doesn't have τ
5:09 PM
@Phoenix I would assume Mego knows the language he wrote, which implies that he doesn't know Jelly
@ETHproductions That's a strong assumption :P
I would make no such assumptions.
I am assuming that I am assuming I am assuming.
Still probably 2 bytes in Jelly
5:11 PM
@Phoenix yes it is
and also in Pyth
@Phoenix It is but I don't feel like opening the docs to copy-paste
It's H-with-dot-below, opening-single-quote in Jelly
not the opening one?
CMC: given n, output if the nth Mersenne number (2^n-1) is prime or not.
@LeakyNun I always get them mixed up :P
5:12 PM
Brain-Flak, I think
@betseg ╙Dp
(({}){}[()]) eliminate push-pop redundancy
@betseg CJam: 2ri#(mp
Brainfuck, i/o by char code: ,[->++<]>-.
@Phoenix That's Nx2-1. Is that a valid formula?
5:16 PM
Q: Try to make a cube!

A AlexBased on this: Try to make a square! You need to output this: #### # # # ### # # # # #### Where "#" is replaced with the input. If you input "A", you should get AAAA A A A AAA A A A A AAAA If you input "&", you should get &&&& & & & &&& & & & & &&&&

@DJMcMayhem ?
Your program will push n times two minus one. Does that really work to determine if the n-th mersenns number is prime?
I was doing the previous CMC
@programmer5000 do you agree that this is a dupe of the daft punk one?
Q: (The other day) I met a bear

programmer5000Your challenge is to output this text: The other day, The other day, I met a bear, I met a bear, A great big bear, A great big bear, Oh way out there. Oh way out there. The other day, I met a bear, A great big bear, Oh way out there. He looked at me, He looked at me, I looked at him, I looked ...

Q: Work it harder, make it better

TreFoxIn this challenge your goal will be to output the lyrics to Daft Punk's Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger. Specifically, output this text: Work It Make It Do It Makes Us Harder Better Faster Stronger More Than Hour Our Never Ever After Work Is Over Work It Make It Do It Makes Us Harder Better ...

and/or anybody else
IMO it's an even better dupe than rickroll
I'd love to hammer it, but I VTC'd it before the code golf tag got added
5:19 PM
But I can edit the dupe location once it gets closed
Oh nvm it did get closed correctly
I'd suggest adding the rickroll to it also, with your gold badge
it's really a dupe of both
It is closed already, is it too late?
well, it was going to get closed anyway
I was just asking your opinion
I'm fairly certain neither of us can vtc/reopen, we've both already voted
5:21 PM
@Riker I disagree. I think just having the Daft Punk one as a dupe target is better.
I think it is a dupe, but can we still add another duplicate (both rickroll & Work it harder, make it better)?
Oh wait no I did hammer it, but that was 3 reopens ago
At this point it should be mod-locked for content dispute
So that the close/reopen war will stop long enough for a meta discussion to take place
@Mego I was suggesting both, but eh
@Mego .. it has >_> but yea I see what you mean
5:23 PM
Meta discussion here:
Q: Is "(The other day) I met a bear" a duplicate?

isaacgThe challenge (The other day) I met a bear is a kolmogorov complexity question about the text of a song. As can be seen by looking at its edit history, it has been closed three times as a duplicate of We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I . It's been reopened three time...

both answers still have 0 score though
Both answers are at net 0. That's not even close to a consensus.
Which means there's still more discussion to be had.
I also added another answer to that discussion:
A: Is "(The other day) I met a bear" a duplicate?

programmer5000Dupe of both I am the original author and I think it should be closed as a dup of both. Currently it is just a dupe of Work it harder, make it better, but this question really has alot in common with both. I regret making that question now. It should be closed as both (but not deleted, people sp...

that's basically mine tbh
5:30 PM
> It's definitely a duplicate, but maybe not of the rickroll question.
You don't seem like you think it's a dupe of the rickroll.
that's not what I intended, let me clarify
your answer can definitely stay up though
I'm not saying it can't
@NewMainPosts This one would be really fun in brain-flak
@Mego I mod-flagged it for a lock, but after no response for over 24 hours and no close/reopen for over 24 hours, I retracted the flag on the basis that I thought it had stopped
apparently not
5:40 PM
@ais523 I just mod-flagged it a few minutes ago
But 24 hours with no response is a long time
I wonder if Alex not really being able to be active is causing a strain on the other three mods
oh, is that the problem? I've noted some strange moderation decisions recently
flags not handled for ages, and when they are, they get declined with a reason that's either nonsensical or entirely missing
it's making it very hard for me to know whether I'm flagging correctly or not, and if not, what I should change
Yeah flags tend to go a while without being handled, especially on meta
I'm wondering if there's some sort of "decline all flags" button on the mod side for if the load gets too high
5:43 PM
@ais523 If you have a particular flag that you're wondering about, it might be worth asking about on meta
I see that on SO all the time
@Dennis @MartinEnder @Doorknob Is the moderation workload too much for you three? Is there anything we non-mod users can do to help?
@ais523 I really hope not
I don't know why Alex isn't relinquishing his moderator position. Him not being available for the site is obviously not a temporary situation at this point
B³S‖O↗ it may very well be close to a 10 byte answer in charcoal though... I just don't know the language well enough to do it, there really needs to be a page like this but for charcoal. — carusocomputing 4 mins ago
@ASCII-only cough
@Fatalize I was under the impression that he will be done with school soon, and thus will have more time for the site. I don't know how accurate that is.
5:44 PM
I haven't gotten the impression that the mods aren't able to keep up.
It would be worth hearing their opinions on it though
@Fatalize prolly because there's no real benefit to him not having the mod position. Most sites this size have 3 mods anyway, the 4th slot was requested by the mods so they could continue to have the nice 4 person group
Why would anyone ever stop coming here because of school? looks at LeakyNun
@Riker And also because our rules being different from Q&A sites means there's more work for the mods to do (like handling custom flags about invalid answers, or handling NAA flags on answers from users who don't realize this isn't a Q&A site).
ouch ;p
@Mego hm, true. didn't think about that
? what do you mean about the last part?
why would new users flag things as NAA
@Riker That's not what I meant. We occasionally get answers from new users who think this is a Q&A site like SO, and so they write up SO-like answers rather than challenge solutions.
5:47 PM
ah, sorry
I read "flags on answers" as "flags from answers"
meta SE got annoyed with me for mentioning that PPCG flags incorrect answers
there's a difference for ppcg and not ppcg
basically thinking that SO rules should apply everywhere…
@ais523 How are we "supposed" to deal with incorrect answers?
@DJMcMayhem When I flag stuff, it can sometimes take 8+ hours for the flag to be handled. That's kind of a long wait time for flag handling.
5:50 PM
@WheatWizard under SO rules? downvote and leave them on the post
@WheatWizard According to SO, downvote them to oblivion
@Mego It's longer on SO. Much longer on other sites I've flagged stuff on
that doesn't work on PPCG, they frequently get upvoted instead
I've waited on a flag on infosec for like 2 days before
@DJMcMayhem that could depend on how many accepted/declined flags you have; the sort order of flags is IIRC based on the flagging record of the people who made them
5:50 PM
@ais523 Also on PPCG it's much easier to tell when an answer is invalid.
If we did that I could put 3 random unicode characters, say they're jelly and the upvotes from people who don't bother to check would completely cancel out the downvotes.
@WheatWizard And that doesn't even begin to touch on the not-a-serious-contender joke answers
@ais523 I have almost 300 with 97% helpful rate
Like suicidal KotH entries and bowled code
@Mego You can flag joke answers on other sites though right?
5:53 PM
@ais523 I don't think that's true. I have 447 helpful flags, but I still see long waits
@WheatWizard yea, as NAA (I think)
@WheatWizard Sure, but other sites don't have community-curated lists of reasons to flag posts like our Loopholes post
user image
@WheatWizard to be honest, that sort of blatant cheating/dishonesty might arguably qualify for an offensive flag
@Mego Threaten sandbox skippers with horrible violence. The vast majority of flags concern comments on these challenges.
5:55 PM
@ais523 eh, I'm not sure
@Riker Please don't post off-topic nonsense during serious discussions.
@Dennis what kind of flag on the comments?
not constructive flags, or obsolete?
Probably obsolete?
Just a guess
@Dennis Do or don't? Because if you're saying do, I will take that to heart.
@Riker Mainly Community's too many comments.
5:56 PM
So what you're saying is that we need to ban Community.
Which is a pain to handle, since you have to go through all comments.
@Riker Unfortunately NAA flags on SO usually get declined (IME)
I hate the "do you want to move this discussion to chat" link, because it's frequently clicked by mistake (once the conversation is over)
and leads to yet more useless comments, also useless chat rooms
I've made good use of it on occasion but it really needs to be less prominent
Q: If code fails to compile, but runs anyway, does that count as executing without error?

ais523Here's a situation that came up recently in chat, and I realised I'm not sure what our rules are. A few challenges require code to run without crashing/erroring. As such, a runtime error would make the answer ineligible. For example, here's a requirement from the "add a language to a polyglot" c...

5:57 PM
I hate that move doesn't actually move anything.
I remember one question that was how do I do XYZ in vim? Someone answered Use this IDE instead, so I flagged NAA and it was declined.
(not to mention it normally requires a mod anyway to clean up the post afterwards)
@DJMcMayhem it's interesting that we use VLQ rather than NAA for invalid answers on PPCG
that fits more in with SO's way of doing things, in that NAA has quite a specific meaning
but actually casting a VLQ flag is a pain, there are so many requirements on it
I don't. I absolutely hate VLQ flags because of the stupid edit-downvote.
@DJMcMayhem I had one declined on Math SE where I showed the answer asking how to get it and someone answered the answer is this and repeated what I said.
That desperately needs to be fixed
5:58 PM
@ais523 We use custom mod flags, actually.
@DJMcMayhem NAA is for "not an attempt at an answer"
parenting.se has a policy for mod flags for answers like that, that challenge the OP's original standpoint
i.e. bypassing the actual question they're asking
This is probably a good time to re-mention that I made a bookmarklet for a canned "use the Sandbox" comment: javascript:$.post("//codegolf.stackexchange.com/posts/"+window.location.pathnam‌​e.split('/')[2]+"/comments",{comment:"Please consider using the [Sandbox](http://meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/sandbox-for-prop‌​osed-challenges) in the future to get feedback on your challenges before posting them to the main site.",fkey:StackExchange.options.user.fkey});
@Mego I believe the current policy is to use VLQ if you can, otherwise delete votes or mod flags
But I fail to see how Use an IDE is even close to an attempt to answering How do I do XYZ in vim?
VLQ is the best solution when you're allowed to use it because it throws the post into low quality posts review
6:00 PM
@ais523 And then it punishes the users for fixing their posts.
@DJMcMayhem "don't do it in vim, use an ide" is definitely an attempt
VLQ is horribly broken and should be avoided at all costs.
A: Definitive policy about answers not meeting the challenge specification

DennisScope As I see it, there are five types of invalid answers: Answers that produce incorrect results. This is the most common type, and usually an accident. Answers that produce correct results, but break a rule of the challenge, ignore parts of the spec or violate a loophole. For example, ans...

I'm out of the loop what is VLQ?
6:01 PM
@Dennis I agree about the horribly broken bit; however, when it happens to work, it's normally the best solution
@WheatWizard "very low quality" flag
For starters, VLQ gets dismissed automatically if the post is edited. That means a mod might never get to see it.
Oh yeah, that.
its effect is: a) if the post has never been to low quality review, send it to low quality review; b) if the post has ever been to low quality review, raise a mod flag
The auto VLQ psuedoflags that Community casts on short answers to put them in the queue are annoying as well. I'd estimate that 98% of the reviews in the VLQ queue are "Looks Ok".
user image
Proof that dennis is telling the truth
6:02 PM
Wait I have 413 LQRs?! Thats a lot
@Mego I usually dismiss them even if the post is low quality to avoid the irreversible downvote.
This seems broken
@Mego that's technically LQA ("low quality (auto)"), not VLQ
6:04 PM
Given all this discussion, maybe a Year In Review retrospective from the mods for the first year of post-semi-graduation might be a good idea.
but they go to the same queue
LQA is much more broken than VLQ is, which is saying something
e.g. if the post gets edited while an LQA flag is on it, the post gets downvoted by Community and there's no way to remove the downvote
Almost every first post also ends up as an LQA as well
(whereas IIRC, if a VLQ post gets edited, the downvote is removed if anyone upvotes the post)
It's supposed to be, but it doesn't actually do that.
I've seen it happen many times, never once seen it actually reversed after I upvote it
6:06 PM
It seems to work for user-raised VLQ flags.
Oh, that's probably the difference. I'm just seeing the LQA
LQA and VLQ flags look slightly different in the low quality posts review queue
the text is very similar, but if you pay attention you can tell them apart
some music I wrote this morning: soundcloud.com/phinotpi/2015windsj
reminds me a bit of the braid soundtrack
mixed with christmas music
I could see it being the soundtrack to a fantasy RPG
6:13 PM
I should make a fantasy RPG to go with my music.
Do you have Game-making experience?
@DJMcMayhem That sounds like the intro to a terrible daytime TV ad.
6:32 PM
Why can't Windows keep my windows in one place? >_>
@WheatWizard Why does it take 2 args? And why is the result 31?
The first arg is the topology, its a mandatory arg for all programs. 2**5-1=31?
@DJMcMayhem Does a 100% science-based dragon MMO count? </meme>
> Do you have experience walking through doors? Well, Aperature Science needs you!
@WheatWizard Times n. Not to the power of n...
thats way eaiser
6:38 PM
@LuisMendo I'd much rather you make the change to your own answer. I don't know MATL that well, and I'd feel bad for claiming credit for the rest of that answer. My own contribution isn't terribly novel, and it's only 3 bytes. :)
Hey, @LeakyNun is in HNQ, and not with PPCG!
@ConorO'Brien Ok, I'll change that later. And thanks again!
my pleasure!
@Dennis ahem
@HelkaHomba how about we make you an honorary sandbox user
@mbomb007 cave just needs people to fight mantismen :P
7:07 PM
@Dennis could you link this here? (Ideally in the post in a special header, but a comment would work.)
:zip|:map.&{|d,n|d.to_r/n}|:/&:+ 7 symbols in a row! New record! (J-uby)
@ATaco for chat commands: /check -> ✔
what is chat
A Alex. I remember an Alex A. What's going on.
7:21 PM
@Phoenix sock?
Alex A hasn't been here in a long time though.
I'm not sure you're allowed to impersonate a moderator
Possibly coincidence
@HelkaHomba Yeah, yeah, not the best wording. I sometimes skip the sandbox myself. Some people shouldn't though.
7:25 PM
@ConorO'Brien AKA Windows is deleting your entire hard drive
eventually you get a feeling for a) which challenges should be sandboxed to get improvements for them; b) which challenges should be sandboxed to have something to point to to shut down arguments when they're posted, even though the sandbox won't do a thing to help them; and c) which challenges don't need sandboxing
@programmer5000 Sure. Since you're proposing on meta that is this a dupe, should I also remove the last paragraph?
(if you're cynical, there's also a group d: challenges that you know will eventually get closed, so you post them outside the Sandbox to get drive-by upvotes in the meantime)
meh, dupes can be almost impossible to find on PPCG
the sandbox increases the chance, but to a value well below 100%
7:34 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Beta DecayFind the Oxidation State code-golf chemistry Challenge Find the oxidation states of each of the atoms in a given molecule. Oxidation states The total oxidation state of a molecule will always be zero. The following molecules have constant oxidation states: Hydrogen always has state +1 Oxy...

I should really stop posting my schoolwork as challenges :|
@BetaDecay outsource the means of production
.. are you a chem major? a lot of your challenges seem to be chemistry related
Uh I'm not entirely sure what a major means, but I take chemistry A-level.
'Major' is basically what degree you're trying to get.
Though A-Levels are high-school, right?
There are no interesting problems in Physics and Maths A level, so I've just been posting chemistry stuff
@Phoenix Yeah, high school
7:43 PM
I actually find its pretty helpful to write ppcg questions as a form of studying. Requiring them to be well specified helps me to understand the topic.
is steam down
not for me
the store is not down but steamcommunity.com is down though
@Dennis Sure.
i mean, i can enter the site, but steam program won't load and gives connection error and steamcommunity.com gives error
Blame caching
Somehow it's always caching
no but seriously, steampowered is actually up
not steamcommunity tho
Betseg, you live in Turky, right?
I'm in the UK, it's down for me as well
I was going to say blame-erdogan but it actually does seem to be down.
7:51 PM
oh look a dedicated website for steam steamstat.us
For the longest time I pronounced that site as Steam Stat Dot You Ess
well, if it was blame-erdogan it wouldn't have been like this, it would've been like this
@betseg yes
I found the secret to doing homework on time: log out of SE and close it and DO NOT open it at all (even when you are logged out)
opened reddit instead
7:55 PM
SE is deadly
3 2 1 stars
That's why I was gone for almost two days, I had loads of homework due today. While being logged into SE, my homework progress was almost none. Even after I logged out of SE, I was still addicted to it by keeping tabs on TNB and PPCG. So I had to close all SE tabs and force myself to homework
@Riker 3 2 1 0 stars
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Stephen SOld C Code Transmogrifier* *What is a transmogrifier? In the C programming language, there are formations called digraphs and trigraphs that are two and three characters sequences that evaluate to less common characters. For example, you can use ??- if your keyboard doesn't have ~. Given text,...

steam online people graph can you spot the sales?
tricky one
8:02 PM
8:13 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Satan's SonWhat is the Mr? Work in progress Please do my chemistry homework for me! Disclaimer: I have already completed this particular piece of homework so you aren't actually doing my homework code-golf chemistry Task Given a chemical compound formula, output the Mr of the compound. Equation Each...

@KritixiLithos What kind of person has that much self-control? You must be a robot
8:25 PM
Is replacing strings in an input with other strings by default a dupe?
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Stephen SOld C Code Transmogrifier* *What is a transmogrifier? In the C programming language, there are formations called digraphs and trigraphs that are two and three characters sequences that evaluate to less common characters. For example, you can use ??- if your keyboard doesn't have ~. Given text,...

@StephenS You mean gsub? I think it's a dupe.
@Phoenix no, I mean would my linked sandbox post be a dupe just because it is simply "replace these strings in the input"
That is also what I meant
It might not be.
8:59 PM
It seems this hasn't received much attention yet (except for one upvote), possibly due to the edit flood in the sandbox yesterday. Does anyone have some feedback?
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin EnderFix my notation for lists of matrices, part 1 code-golfarray-manipulationsyntax Sometimes, I have lists of constant matrices in my code: [ [[1, 0], [0, 1]], [[1, 0], [0,-1]], [[0, 1], [1, 0]], [[0,-1], [1, 0]] ] That's a terrible use of screen real estate. I'd much rathe...

@MartinEnder for what it's worth, I was the upvote; I liked the idea behind the challenge and haven't looked into the content of the post too deeply
there's nothing obviously wrong with it, at least
What you're saying is that you've missed Martin's canary? :-P
haha okay, thanks. if editors had better tools for adding "2D" text, I'd actually love to use this in real code. but maintaining text like that is such a pain.
@JanDvorak is that an idiom or a reference I don't get?
I mean, honeypot
I don't know who said that, but someone said they'd always leave something obviously wrong in their sandbox posts just to see if the reviewers would notice - and the reviewers never did.
oh right. I think I've heard of that being referred to as a duck or something
9:16 PM
the idea of a duck is a bit different
it's the thing you put in just so that the person reviewing can tell you to change it
so that they don't scour the rest of the post for something to change to make worse
(also, I think that link needs a lot of rep to view; more than I have, at least)
oh, huh, I'm at 20k rep on PPCG, when did that hpapen?
ah, no
20k rep total, it must be
I'm at 1k on Puzzling and like 500 on Meta, that's probably enough to add to 20k
TIL a brainfuck interpreter in piet:
it's also horrifying, as that's a single frame gif
@ais523 oh right, that's indeed a bit different
canary is probably the right bird to use here
@Riker Does piet support animated gifs
If not, someone should make that a language
i don't think so
9:25 PM
@Phoenix hmmm, this could actually be interesting :) (and a pain to use, but hey...)
Hmmmm... how would it work so that the animation is actually an intresting part of the language...
maybe it's a 2D lang and everytime the IP moves it switches to the next frame
That sounds overcomplicated and not useful in a normal 2d lang
the trick then is to make it a tarpit
if you put the program on a torus, it's probably Turing-complete with only fixed mirrors
wait, no
Doesn't Befunge require get/put to be TC?
9:35 PM
you couldn't tell if you were on the original copy or not, so there's no way to read back your data storage
@Phoenix Befunge-93 does
but Befunge-98 is TC even without
you use the stack stack
that lets you construct a stack with arbitrarily complex elements on it, which is enough for TCness
I think there's a command to swap the top two stack stack elements, which would be enough
;-; stack stacks are pain.
That image is so old it must have come from ninegag
9:44 PM
@Phoenix that's what I assumed
oh, hmm, I wonder if it works if the IP moves at an irrational speed?
then you have infinitely many frame vs. IP position states
I think that's too complicated, how about ipfreq=1.01/frameduration
you clearly don't have infinite storage if the IP moves at a rational speed
hmm, say you use pi as the number
then what you're effectively doing is regexing pi, although I'm not immediately certain what format the digits are in
And the frame frequency is determined by the gif.
Are irrational numbers only necessarily irrational in base 10?
no, being irrational is independent of base
9:48 PM
good to know
Is it given that for any rational number r, there exists an integer n such that n*r is an integer?
r=a/b, n=b ⇒ r*n=a
I guess it would have to be irrational.
Actually, would there be much of a point? It woudn't ever exactly loop, the same states would repeat, given there are only width * height * frames possible ip/frame states.
What is the best explanation format for J-uby? (strawpoll) (last one had wrong urls)

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