The Nineteenth Byte

Mr. Xcoder

4:00 PM

Really? :P

DJMcMayhem

@Mego What's a non-fireteam teammate?

Poke

Lunch time

J. Salle

@Mego That happens a lot in CS as well. Someone tries to make a play by themselves, get killed, team loses, blame the team.

Pavel

@DJMcMayhem In Dota it's almost entirely automated, and yeah, ingame notifications when action is taken against someone you've reported.

People don't generally get suspended from Dota, they get put into Low Priority Matchmaking so you get to play with all the other people that got reported.

In order to get out, you have to win a certain amount of games, so it encourages people to not throw.

J. Salle

@Pavel when I stopped playing, there was a kind of glitch where you could play vs. bots to get out of LP. Did they fix that?

Pavel

4:02 PM

Yes.

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem Someone on your team via matchmaking rather than manual teaming up

Pavel

They also changed it from all random to single draft

DJMcMayhem

I probably forgot a million games, but What online game is the most toxic?

Anonymous

Destiny 2 PvP is 4v4. You can queue with a fireteam of up to 4, and matchmaking handles filling out your team to 4 if you have empty slots.

J. Salle

@Pavel I stopped playing back in '13, LP meant you just took longer to find a game. Like 15 minutes or something.

Anonymous

4:04 PM

@DJMcMayhem Definitely LoL

AdmBorkBork

Definitely CoD. Everyone is like 12 and acts like they just discovered cursing.

Pavel

@J.Salle That's still true, but now you can only queue for Single Draft. (One random strenght, int, agi hero, pick one to play)

DJMcMayhem

@Mego That's my impression from the outside, but I haven't played enough of it to tell for sure

Anonymous

Out of those choices, I'd say TF2 and Destiny are the two least toxic

J. Salle

@Pavel nice. I used to play SD a lot back in dota 1 times.

AdmBorkBork

4:05 PM

TF2 definitely. You get like conga lines and banjo bands in random games.

Pavel

Queueing for it now is actually faster to do in low prio. No one does it normally.

Everything has changed since '13

7.0.0 got released, among other things.

Anonymous

Destiny (both games) players are pretty non-toxic towards each other because Bungie's unintentional skill at playing the heel and making everyone pissed off means that all the toxicity gets directed in Bungie's direction

J. Salle

Hahahahah I think that's because AP is now kind of a draft, isn't it? I mean, sentinels pick a hero, then scourge picks a hero and so on?

Sentinels = radiant and scourge = dire btw

Pavel

Wew, not many players left that call it sentinels and scourge

"Throne" just means ancient now, not necessarily dire ancient.

J. Salle

When I started playing dota Invoker had 27 skills >.>

Pavel

4:08 PM

Probably for the best that they cut it down.

J. Salle

lol yeah the hero was completely unplayable back then, if you missclicked any of the QWE skills you'd be screwed

Pavel

You should check it out.

Although you'll probably be confused af without reading 4 years of patch notes.

AdmBorkBork

@Mr.Xcoder By your logic, almost every code-golf ascii-art challenge should be KC. I'm not sure that's what we'd want for the KC tag.

Well, maybe not "almost every" but certainly a sizable chunk.

J. Salle

@Pavel I actually read most of the patch notes until a couple patches before the last TI, I just haven't played in a long time hahahah

Pavel

@J.Salle Did you see 7.0.0 then?

J. Salle

4:13 PM

@Pavel See it? Yeah. Haven't played it yet though.

Pavel

Purge had a 10-hour long livestream of patchnote analysis for 7.0.0.

J. Salle

I still have my Cluckles and my Timebreaker, though!

Pavel

Ok, I don't know what that is.

J. Salle

I dropped the TB in a game hours before the patch that made it impossible to drop. Timebreaker is a skin for Void's mace which was made by the community, but it happens that the guy who made it ripped it off another game. Valve changed the skin and made it undroppable.

Pavel

Ah. I didn't rerally care about any cosmetics until TI16 battle pass.

J. Salle

4:15 PM

And cluckles is a courier, a chicken with rockets attached

Pavel

nice

Mr. Xcoder

@AdmBorkBork Umm, then what should be tagged KC?

> In the context of code-golf, Kolmogorov complexity is a challenge to compress a specified string or dataset, so a post should be tagged kolmogorov-complexity iff the bulk of the challenge is to produce a string or a subset of a dataset which is given in the question.

AdmBorkBork

I don't know how to describe my perspective.

I see a difference between something like Rickroll and my telephone keypad challenge, though. Don't know how to describe it.

Mr. Xcoder

Anyway, I do kinda understand what you mean. Feel free to not tag it as such if you don't consider it appropriate.

I don't know if there are many clever ways to produce it, the shortest approach might just be string compression in most golfing languages (aside from the usual tricks).

Pavel

@AdmBorkBork I think KC totally fits. Any constant output challenge is generally considered KC. Your challenge isn't even "borderline" KC where the output has a different size depending on input or something like that, it's just perfectly what KC is.

Mr. Xcoder

4:26 PM

Exactly. I agree 100% with Pavel.

Pavel

In fact, if I saw your post on main without having seen this discussion, I would think that you just forgot about the tag and have edited it in for you.

Riker

@Mr.Xcoder KC is for fixed output or for outputting a fixed string based on a given into, i.e. table lookup

so hello world is KC, so is 'print the nth pokemon'

but not 'print a string <input> letters long'

Pavel

@Riker Although that's close enough that many would tag it KC anyway, and no one would really mind.

@Riker Also, with @ATaco's chat preview and caret reply, the <input> tag in that message gets replaced by an actual text input box.

Mr. Xcoder

KC is for fixed output... Adm's challenge is completely fixed-output

Pavel

Yeah it's unquestionable KC

Mr. Xcoder

4:36 PM

^

Pavel

Any Safari users here? Dennis needs someone to test something in talk.tryitonline.net

Mr. Xcoder

Even if Dennis told me it's not KC, I would still disagree

@Pavel I use Safari

Pavel

talk.tryitonline.net

For general discussion and feature requests regarding tryitonl...

Challenger5

@AdmBorkBork I think you mean "PPCG-ers are some of the least belligerently unintelligent people I've ever had the profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid interacting with".

Mr. Xcoder

@Challenger5 ಠ____ಠ

Pavel

4:38 PM

@Challenger5 wat

Challenger5

Hitchhiker's guide reference

Adám

5:17 PM

An informal APL learning session has been scheduled by Adam for Wednesday 17:30 UTC (18:30 UK, 19:30 DK) at https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/apl

Tweeted by dyalogapl on October 24, 2017 at 1:50 PM

Mr. Xcoder

@Adám Tacit advertisement :P

HyperNeutrino

CMP: What values should be returned in Enlist for Left Argument and Right Argument when they're not present?

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino It should probably be command-dependent... Anyway, depending on the context, 0 or 1 or 10 or "". Details?

HyperNeutrino

Like ⍺ is left argument; when you call that (as a nilad) in a niladic chain, what value should it give by default?

Mr. Xcoder

0.

HyperNeutrino

5:23 PM

ok

And ⍵ is right argument, when it's called as a nilad in a monadic or niladic chain, what value should it give?

Mr. Xcoder

Just like APL...

HyperNeutrino

yes

that's where the inspiration for these symbols came from

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino How about "" or 1?

Or [], since it is Enlist?

HyperNeutrino

[] is the default for ⁸

Mr. Xcoder

Then maybe 100?

HyperNeutrino

5:25 PM

that's ^3

I think maybe "" because Jelly lacks that

Also, using 0 for ⍺ might not be a good idea because that doesn't save bytes except in the rare case where you want a numerical nilad followed by 0

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino Then what about -1?

DJMcMayhem

Fixing bugs

6

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder that's - like in Jelly

@DJMcMayhem lol true

Adám

@Doorknob Can you add write access to @MortenKromberg and @BBinWNY in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/apl?

J. Salle

@DJMcMayhem this is so true it hurts.

Pavel

5:30 PM

@Adám Dennis is active right now too, you can try pinging him.

Adám

@Dennis Can you add write access to @MortenKromberg and @BBinWNY in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/apl?

DJMcMayhem

@Adám Nope, I can't

Adám

@DJMcMayhem Sorry, wrong ping.

DJMcMayhem

No worries

HyperNeutrino

I thought ROs could but I may be remembering incorrectly.

Pavel

5:32 PM

It's only diamond mods. They can superping people in chat, which allows pinging people who have never been in the room. If the user is a low-rep user, the superping grants them access to chat.

HyperNeutrino

hm ok

DJMcMayhem

@HyperNeutrino Well, being an RO isn't really a rare privelege cause anyone can just make their own rooms

HyperNeutrino

that's true

J. Salle

@DJMcMayhem but, if you're the RO, shouldn't you be able to choose who can talk in your room?

Pavel

It's only TNB where there's an entire election process.

@J.Salle You can block people, but not enable low-rep users.

DJMcMayhem

5:34 PM

Nope. You can't block people

Pavel

And by block I mean create a gallery room.

It's a whitelist not a blacklist

Doorknob

@Adám ok, did that

DJMcMayhem

Which is unfortunate because sometimes we want to revoke access to TNB but the only way is through suspensions, which apply to every room

Adám

@Doorknob Thanks!

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel Oh, true.

Dennis

5:35 PM

@Doorknob Looks like we tried to do that at the same time.

DJMcMayhem

@Pavel Some other rooms (The Bridge and Charcoal come to mind) have similar processes

Conor O'Brien

another world of hellos

AdmBorkBork

@Mr.Xcoder I added kollamallama-complexity

Pavel

:P

DJMcMayhem

@AdmBorkBork komllamaramagov-compllamexity

Anonymous

5:41 PM

@DJMcMayhem Yep, most high-traffic rooms on the network do some form of elections or similar

Mr. Xcoder

@AdmBorkBork Good choice!

HyperNeutrino

When TNB was first created, who owned it?

Mr. Xcoder

Good question...

Riker

@HyperNeutrino nobody iirc

HyperNeutrino

? huh

Riker

5:49 PM

rooms without owners are assigned owners from the most active people after 14 days

HyperNeutrino

hm interesting

Riker

Mar 3 '11 at 10:44, by Feeds

Chris Jester-Young has been automatically appointed as owner of this room.

and later:

Mar 5 '14 at 13:47, by Feeds

mniip has been automatically appointed as owner of this room. (What does this mean?)

Mr. Xcoder

Wait the room is created automatically with the site?

HyperNeutrino

Interesting

Riker

@Pavel heh, that's called a bug :P

Mr. Xcoder

5:50 PM

Jan 28 '11 at 4:35, by Feeds

Hello, world!
Welcome to chat for: Code Golf.

Riker

@Mr.Xcoder iirc yes, a room is created when a site enters beta

@Mr.Xcoder ?

Mr. Xcoder

@Riker The first message, by "Feeds". Definitely created automatically.

Riker

@Mr.Xcoder ? :p

I mean the first message was created by feeds

the current revision? not as much

Mr. Xcoder

@Riker ಠ_ಠ :P

Riker

@Mr.Xcoder I had to

HyperNeutrino

5:53 PM

D: so many stars in the beginning of the room history

First 8 messages are all starred.

Riker

apparently

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino I am afraid that is a false statement... ?

HyperNeutrino

really?

Mr. Xcoder

(The third is not.)

HyperNeutrino

oh

the oneboxes were tripping me up lol

Riker

5:55 PM

@Mr.Xcoder ftfy

lol somebody else had the same idea

HyperNeutrino

(that was me :P)

Mr. Xcoder

@Riker nnt

AdmBorkBork

Dang. Do you think this is too close that my keypad challenge is likely to be closed as dupe?

Pavel

@AdmBorkBork yeah.

Mr. Xcoder

@AdmBorkBork Just hovering over it, definitely a duplicate.

@Adm I was almost positive it was a duplicate, I just couldn't find it.

AdmBorkBork

6:02 PM

I couldn't find it either until the automatic dupe-checker on the Ask Question page found it for me.

Mr. Xcoder

Yeah thought so too.

HyperNeutrino

Any more suggestions for two semi-commonly used constants that might be helpful?

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino i (sqrt -1)

1/2

HyperNeutrino

that's already a syntactical thing :P

Mr. Xcoder

@Pavel That is .

HyperNeutrino

6:06 PM

1/2 is just . like in Jelly :P

Pavel

360

HyperNeutrino

(ninja'd)

hm 360

useful for angles or something?

Pavel

Yeah that's what I was thinking

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino I have a suggestion too, but I am not sure whether you'd agree: "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz"... I think that's also a built-in command though.

Pavel

2pi might be more useful

HyperNeutrino

6:08 PM

hm interesting idea

@Mr.Xcoder That's probably going to be a two-byte niladic built-in

@Pavel That will probably be like Øπ or something

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino so not Tau

HyperNeutrino

maybe, if I find another character to remove from the code-page

AdmBorkBork

2pi is superior to tau

fight me, bro

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino I thought about 256.

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder ⁹

Mr. Xcoder

6:15 PM

Really...

@HyperNeutrino Just another try: 10^(-1) = 1/10 = 0.1?

@AdmBorkBork Isn't Tau 2π?

AdmBorkBork

Yes

But pi is more useful than tau

Mr. Xcoder

enters confusion

HyperNeutrino

hm... 0.1 might be a good idea

It's .1 otherwise BTW

Mr. Xcoder

No main challenge today; when I had plenty of time ffs...

AdmBorkBork

I tried but I duped

HyperNeutrino

6:18 PM

that's how it always works :P

Mr. Xcoder

Maybe I'll post one myself, who knows?! :P

Anonymous

Conveniently approximated as e+2, Pau is commonly known as the Devil's Ratio (because in the octal expansion, '666' appears four times in the first 200 digits while no other run of 3+ digits appears more than once.)

HyperNeutrino

ew

Mr. Xcoder

The more expensive it is, the better it flies through the window --- my maths professor talking to a student that was chatting on their phone during class

AdmBorkBork

@Mego What the what. Why is that even a thing.

HyperNeutrino

6:21 PM

anyway gtg o/

Mr. Xcoder

\o

AdmBorkBork

@Mr.Xcoder There's a challenge for you.

Mr. Xcoder

@AdmBorkBork >___> I just moved to mobile.

caird coinheringaahing

@Mr.Xcoder If so, do a mathematical one. I've just added some updates to Add++

Mr. Xcoder

@cairdcoinheringaahing BTW, up for some JHT (bored to death, New main challenge is not too interesting IMO because I dislike quines)?

caird coinheringaahing

6:36 PM

@Mr.Xcoder Soory, I can't right now :(

HyperNeutrino

@Mr.Xcoder sure

Mr. Xcoder

ok

New Main Posts

2

Q: Output the Source, One Bit at a Time

Write a program or a function that when called outputs a single value, 1 or 0, and when called multiple times, the output numbers produce the binary representation of your program's source code (in the same code page from which your code is compiled/interpreted). For instance, if your source cod...

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino There already. :P

Anonymous

CMC: Given a positive integer n, output the smallest base where n can be expressed without any 0s in its representation in that base, excluding unary.

caird coinheringaahing

6:38 PM

@Mego Can n have 0's in its decimal representation?

Anonymous

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes

caird coinheringaahing

Well, there goes my slew of cat programs :(

Anonymous

An upper bound for b is n+1, since any positive integer n can be expressed as a single non-zero digit in base n+1

HyperNeutrino

examples?

Mr. Xcoder

^

Anonymous

6:41 PM

1 -> 2 (1)
2 -> 3 (2)
3 -> 2 (11)
4 -> 3 (11)
5 -> 3 (12)
6 -> 4 (12)
7 -> 2 (111)

Anonymous

n-1 is a tighter upper bound for n > 2, since 2 is the only number that needs n+1 (since unary is not considered)

Mr. Xcoder

I think 6 should give 4.

Anonymous

You're right

Mr. Xcoder

@Mego Pyth, 6 bytes.

HyperNeutrino

Jelly: spoiler: 10 bytes

(definitely too long lol)

Anonymous

6:44 PM

I may end up posting this to main

Mr. Xcoder

ಠ_ಠ

@Mego Oh well ping me if you do :P

Anonymous

Let me check for dupes

caird coinheringaahing

@HyperNeutrino wouldn't # help?

HyperNeutrino

maybe

Mr. Xcoder

9 bytes here in Jelly.

@Mego I really hope there's no dupe and that I'll be around when you post it...

CMC: Given a list of positive integers, output the one with the highest sum of absolute deltas to its neighbours. You may assume that such a term is unique. [1, 7, 5, 3, 10, 0, 1] -> 10

HyperNeutrino

6:53 PM

highest absolute deltas -> sum of the two or largest of the two? toroidal?

Mr. Xcoder

@HyperNeutrino Neighbours are the immediately adjacent elements ([[7], [1, 5], [7, 3], [5, 10], [3, 0], [10, 1], [0]])

HyperNeutrino

ok

Mr. Xcoder

Dang... I lost my Jelly 9-byter

HyperNeutrino

ctrl-shift-f?

Mr. Xcoder