The Nineteenth Byte

> Consider buying sublime text so I don't feel bad using it
> 80 dollars
> Nope

6

@AdmBorkBork i.e. It converts the code to Jelly code, then runs it as Jelly

Double transpilation. That will be slow :-) Not that it matters in code golf, though

@LuisMendo Jelly isn't transpiled, is it?

6:20 PM

To Python, I think

IIRC, it's interpreted, not transpiled

I feel like this topic could quickly escalate into a lot of sentences that start with the word "technically"

Technically, it could

Not a technicality. Transpilation is vastly superior to what the Jelly interpreter is doing.

@Dennis I have a feeling that transpilation would be much harder to create than the current interpreter, due to the weird nature of dyads

Not to mention quicks

6:26 PM

Sorry for the confusion :-) Interpreted, not transpiled, then

The end result would be much faster though. Jelly's way is very slow.

MATL is transpiled and it's very slow, probably more than Jelly. I guess that says something about my transpiler writing abilities :-P

@Joe I love your profile picture, given that apparently "I'm a freshman" (from your profile)

Or we could blame the Octave interpreter, which runs the "transpiled" code, haha

@cairdcoinheringaahing Thanks, glad I updated my profile a few minutes ago to reflect that :)

6:30 PM

Anyway, if MATL code is transpiled to MATLAB/Octave and that transpiled code is run by the MATLAB/Octave interpreter, I don't know what to call that: is MATL code transpiled or interpreted?

Hallo all

Hello

world

!

I'd say that MATL is transpiled, and only the MATLAB/Octave code is interpreted

6:31 PM

Haha collaborative chain of "Hello World!"

Transerpreted

@Joe That's my view too. But I'm never sure. Thanks!

Hehe ^^

CMC: Output Hallo all Hello world!

@cairdcoinheringaahing "Hallo all Hello world! (Pyth)

@AdmBorkBork Or maybe MATL identifies as language-fluid

6:33 PM

@Mr.Xcoder That's one character away from the Jelly solution (not the shortest though)

@cairdcoinheringaahing ~~Actually~~ In fact, Pyth, 23 bytes: ." wíZÌ73àÐ4!¸v.a"

Compressed string?

Yup

which only saves 2 bytes?

And it really is 23 bytes. Pyth uses ISO

6:34 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing SOGL, 14 bytes

@LuisMendo Yup again :)

@LuisMendo 2 bytes is better than none :P

... It would benefit from a port to 05AB1E

ಠ_ಠ The 05ab1e compressor is broken

@Mr.Xcoder In what way?

@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly, 12 bytes: Try it online!

6:37 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing It removes all occurrences oft the first character iff it is the character with the lowest code point...

HUH???? SOGL loses at compression????

@Dennis How in the world did you compress it that much... Explanation please?

hacks imo

@Dennis Wait, is "Hallo" in the dictionary?

@cairdcoinheringaahing SOGLs compression doesn't contain capitalized letters, so it wasted 4 bytes on h -> H

6:38 PM

Hey Flip

H.PWiz

@cairdcoinheringaahing Husk, 12 bytes: TIO!

@Mr.Xcoder Compress().dictionary('Hallo').dictionary(' all').dictionary(' Hello').dictionary(' world').string('!').go()

ಠ_ಠ .dictionary does not work with the Jelly compressor on my machine

Using Lynn's compressor.

why does this mini challenge exist

6:38 PM

@Dennis .dictionary() does not work for some reason here.

doesn't work is not a bug report.

4

@FlipTack Because of the Hello, world chain Xcoder started :P

I am using MacOS, if this is relevant

@Mr.Xcoder Yeah, I think that bug has been reported on the tips page

A permalink would have been easier. :P

6:41 PM

Oh, I now see Riker's comment...

@Dennis -1, permalinks are too mainstream :P

How's everyone been? I haven't been on for quite a while

-1 permalinks are way too long and not even goo.gl helps.

@FlipTack Things were good around here. Welcome back!

@FlipTack Well, Jelly has a competitor aside from 05AB1E and Xcoder has got a ton of rep between you leaving and now, and Tetris GoL has been answered :P

Oh shit, Tetris GOL solved???

that's mental

6:43 PM

Yup

brb need to see this

That will take a while :-)

@FlipTack Yeah, people have been bountying it since the answers were posted

@FlipTack ... And became the most upvoted challenge... 744 votes

@Mr.Xcoder Someone added a permalink to the code for no good reason. It doesn't work on its own, without importing the Jelly dictionary.

6:44 PM

@Dennis Is Jelly's dictionary an importable module on Python TIO?

Oh ok... Right how can I be that dumb?

I managed to install JDK in such a way that javac.exe doesn't exist on my computer, and this confuses me greatly. I can compile java from IntelliJ but not from the command line.

@cairdcoinheringaahing i don't think so

@Dennis is there a difference between y and string replacement in Jelly?

I truly didn't think I'd ever see a solution to Tetris GOL

amazing things happen on this stachexchange

have we graduated yet? hahaha

6:48 PM

@FlipTack November 1st is approaching

^^ We have the new nav bar

@FlipTack We have kinda semi-graduated...

I come back 9 months later and we're still waiting

classic PPCG

@Mr.Xcoder It is. I fixed the link.

@Dennis Ok... I just rolled back, thanks anyway!

Q: Should Output a number bigger than TREE(3) be edited an reopened?

6:50 PM

@FlipTack Yeah. A Over a year ago, if memory servers. No design yet though.

New Meta Posts

0

The question output a number bigger than TREE(3) was closed as unclear what you are asking. I like the idea behind the question and would like to edit and reopen it. To start I'm not even fully sure why it was closed. I get the phrasing was confusing, but the idea behind it is pretty simple. W...

\o/ A meta review! First time in ages

@Pavel memory servers :-P

7:07 PM

CMC: Given a list, nest the elements, with the first two nested the most and the last one nested the least. Example: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10] => [[[[[[[[[1, 2], 3], 4], 5], 6], 7], 8], 9], 10]

jelly, 2 bytes: ,/

I have 2 bytes in Jelly

that's what you waited for right

ninja'd :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pyth, 2 bytes ,F

7:10 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing SOGL, 4 bytes. Open the console to see the actual array representation

So what does F do? Presumably , is similar to Jelly's ,

@cairdcoinheringaahing Reduce.

@cairdcoinheringaahing , is exactly like jelly's ,, and F is reduce

Wait, why is F reduce?

Fold

also

05ab1e, 4 bytes: R.«‚

7:12 PM

Boo-urns. PowerShell flattens arrays and inserts newlines between elements by default during the implicit Write-Output, so @(@(1,2),3) is visually the same as @(1,2,3).

@cairdcoinheringaahing Because it was the only available character and it's F old

And because assigning letters/symbols to functions in a code golf language is hard

DJMcMayhem

@cairdcoinheringaahing V, 8 bytes: JûÉ[Íî/]

... especially if they are ascii-only (cough MATL, cough)

Giuseppe

@cairdcoinheringaahing R, 25 bytes: function(l)Reduce(list,l)

7:13 PM

Talking about Fs :P

Oh there is a contact game going on

@Mr.Xcoder :-D

Neil

7:53 PM

@Pavel javac used to be just a thin wrapper around java com.sun.tools.javac.Main anyway

Hmm... wonder how they compiled com.sun.tools.javac.Main without relying in Java. By hand?

That sounds impractical.

Prolly had a compiler in C, but it would make sense to still have a compiler in C for performance.

ATaco

@cairdcoinheringaahing ARBLE, 19 bytes reduce(a,list(a,b))

Proton, 13 bytes: reduce(&list)

\o/ finally the & syntax trick comes into use

8:13 PM

So many challenges seem to be solved in a short number of bytes by golfing languages. I'm talking about roughly 1..4 byte solutions. I'm wondering, could we create a class of challenges (aka a tag) strictly of the form "Do what this Language X program does", where the given program is very short and produces some sensible output? "Sensible output" is meant to exclude performing operations that have no apparent effect, such as multiplying a number by two and then dividing it by two.

@Joe Well you can turn any challenge into that. Just make a reference implementation (I do this occasionally), and then the challenge could become "Do what this program does". However, that is not sufficient for a specification because one cannot expect all users to know that language.

@HyperNeutrino What does the & syntax do?

&f := (*a) => f(a)

essentially auto-un-splat

Wait, its argument repacking?

yeah

8:17 PM

fun fact: in SOGL multiplying a number by 2 and then dividing by 2 doesn't do that: online (compare that with replacing the twos with other numbers)

wait with 3 it gives 3*3/ as output???

whoa what is this

@dzaima Huh? What does / do?

@HyperNeutrino docs

thanks

I just made some useless stuff do useful stuff

8:20 PM

oh lol you overrode mul-div with the same number :P

cool

"pointless-string overloading"

Hey, getting the letters of the QWERTY keyboard isn't pointless.

@AdmBorkBork Yes, but multiplying a number by 2 and then dividing it by 2 is.

Oh, I see. "(Pointless string) overloading" as opposed to "Pointless (string overloading)"

> push [".com", ".net", ".co.uk", ".gov"]

So that's why SOGL wins string challenges

:P

8:24 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing honestly I don't know why I added that

The FOLDOC used to live at foldoc.doc.ic.ac.uk which always struck me as amusing to say out loud.

DJMcMayhem

Dock-ick-ack-ook

Precisely

Like something out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.

@HyperNeutrino oh wow I had forgotten I had a source code built-in in SOGL :o

My profile picture is convinced that I have cheese in my fist, while typing with both hands :P

8:27 PM

:P

@AdmBorkBork Didn't you know that "string" takes precedence over "overloading"? It's because "string" is defined as a noun, whereas the gerund "overloading" is actually a verb cast as a noun, which reduces its z-index attribute in the sentence.

@dzaima Doesn't count as a valid quine though :(

@Joe Right, but when I first read the sentence, I saw the hyphen as an emdash, hence where my confusion originated.

@AdmBorkBork Ah, I see you differentiate between types of dashes. I applaud you for that.

Huh? There's more than one type of dash?

8:35 PM

yes, em and en and I think hyphen is different. not sure

Giuseppe

Dash

The dash is a punctuation mark that is similar in appearance to a hyphen or minus sign, but differs from both of these symbols primarily in length and function. The most common versions of the dash are the en dash (–) and the longer em dash (—), whose names historically were loosely related with the length of a lower-case n and upper-case M, respectively, in commonly used typefaces. Usage varies both within English and in other languages, but the usual convention in printed English text is as follows: An em dash (or an en dash) denotes a break in a sentence or to set off parenthetical statements...

Okx

any feedback on codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14054/26600

I don't see how the difference in the part integrity of "string" and "overloading" affect the situation. Really, it's the precedence between "pointless" and "overloading"; is the overloading done on pointless strings or is the overloading done on strings pointless? I believe that "string overloading" is one object phrase because in this case "overloading" is a verb gerund (which is effectively a noun), and "string" describes what's overloaded, effectively making it act like an adjective. This makes "pointless string overloading" an Adj-Adj-Noun phrase, making the overloading both done on st…

Although, this whole conversation is rather pointless. ;-)

We just like getting buried into the pedantic components as much as possible here in TNB.

I have a history of being overly pedantic about grammar. I stopped that after I stopped chatting online with the one person remaining who was as pedantic as me, so I usually speak without capitalization or punctuation now (because it's the internet; not many people really care much anymore). :P

8:42 PM

I care a great deal about being completely corret when typing

4

@HyperNeutrino Well said. I couldn't follow the last sentence, but I agree that without the hyphen the phrase "pointless string overloading" would best be interpreted as string overloading that is pointless.

@Joe Thanks :) I would probably have favored saying "overloading of pointless strings" because now with the "of", it turns "pointless strings" into the object where "overloading" is a verb gerund, thus converting the 4 word sequence into an object.

Boy, natural language is fun. It's so much like programming in some ways.

@HyperNeutrino I stopped being so pedantic about grammar when I started making friends. I'm not sure if there was a causal relationship between the two events.

lol

I had a couple of friends in grade 8 and I'm in grade 10 now; my friend group has changed minimally if at all :P