The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

8:00 PM

It's its own bytecode and platform

aditsu

oh, the twitch thing?

orlp

@aditsu yes

Downgoat

@Mego okay, now we're just going in a loop

Geobits

Great, now JS will lock up. It doesn't like loops :(

aditsu

@orlp why do people watch some guys playing tetris?

Downgoat

8:01 PM

@Geobits it'll exit cleanly with a Maximum call stack size exceeded error though rather than lock up your computer

orlp

@aditsu you'll see :)

Downgoat

@quartata I don't think you understand what asm.js is. It isn't a language that's compiled to JS.

orlp

these are not just 'some guys'

Quill

@Downgoat there's another caveat of JavaScript: you can't simply screw some guy's computer

Geobits

@Downgoat If it's increasing the stack maybe. I can definitely write a loop that will lock up a browser, or at least I have accidentally in the past >_>

aditsu

8:03 PM

@quartata @Downgoat that's what wasm is

Geobits

> Q. Is asm.js a new language?
A. No, it's just (a subset of) JavaScript.

Quill

We all need to use Fortran for web

Downgoat

@Geobits yeah?

@Quill screw it just use punch cards

quartata

@Downgoat f f s

That isn't what I'm saying

You're saying that we can use any language we want just by compiling to asm.js

I'm explaining why that's not good enough

(and why that's not really true)

aditsu

wait, are these guys playing and talking at the same time?

quartata

8:05 PM

@aditsu The couch commentators are talking, the speedrunner is just playing

aditsu

no idea who's who :p

Downgoat

@quartata I'm saying the issues you've brought up have solutions but you're saying they're not good enough because of speed concerns and asm.js solves that. What else?

aditsu

@orlp are they some of those guys who played tetris for 7 months non-stop instead of going out? :p

mınxomaτ

@quartata Because asm.js is a terrible hack and Mozilla can't be arsed to get together with the llvm and chromium devs to standardize PNaCl?

quartata

@mınxomaτ yesssss

PLS

Quill

8:06 PM

I think the true solution is to stop using the browser

quartata

@Downgoat asm.js is about 1.5x faster than JS

Quill

let's all go back to pure terminals

LegionMammal978

@mınxomaτ What's asm.js?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

kehehe

quartata

In exchange for this tiny boost you're given this incredibly difficult to transpile to target

Downgoat

8:08 PM

@quartata what giant scientific simulations are you doing that requires machine-code fast execution?

LegionMammal978

^

mınxomaτ

@quartata Not that difficult. LLVM does a good job, and asm.js is awesome. I recently managed to learn how to perf tune it correctly. But it is a hack. Like using a toaster to make coffee. PNaCl is awesome but where it's missing the standard and a decent documentation.

LegionMammal978

And what's PNaCl?

Anonymous

@aditsu The players are actually talking a fair amount. That will change with TGM2 and TGM3, which are much harder and require a whole lot more concentration

Quill

@Downgoat meh, if most "client side" rendering were 1.5 times faster, we could actually feel good about using said libraries

quartata

8:09 PM

Basically assembly for Chrome

mınxomaτ

@quartata What? No.

aditsu

wasm guys, that's where it's at

mınxomaτ

It's a sandboxed environment for C/++ native code. Demos are here (if you have chrome): gonativeclient.appspot.com/demo

quartata

@mınxomaτ You use the pNaCl toolchain to compile C to a bytecode that chrome can run

mınxomaτ

@quartata But that is not Assembly.

quartata

8:10 PM

> Basically

mınxomaτ

Not even basically.

quartata

Sorry, I didn't realize we were being particularly precise about terminology here.

Downgoat

@Quill if you're talking about graphics WebGL and all work fine for most thingsl ike space toy. If you're trying to make a 3D game A) use game engine B) why are you making a 3d game in Javascript C) see B.

quartata

Assembly to me usually implies some form of machine code for a platform

Not sure how that fails here

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

g'bye guys. have fun

mınxomaτ

8:11 PM

Assembly is a readable language that compiles mnemonics to bytecode. AFAIK there is no assembler for NaCl.

quartata

There is

Quill

@Downgoat I meant like Angular and React

orlp

@aditsu that was the warm up :)

mınxomaτ

@quartata Where?

quartata

Well, not in that sense. it's llvm

mınxomaτ

8:12 PM

LLVM IL is not Assembly.

It's IL.

It posses concepts not present in Assembly, like Phi-nodes.

Downgoat

@Quill they are plenty of solutions for that though. You can even roll your own in 15 minutes

and they are like hundreds if not thousands of alternative, much more lightweight libraries

Quill

@Downgoat just because you can roll a solution fast doesn't mean it's a good solution

quartata

@Downgoat You seem to be focusing on the speed part of my argument even though that's not all there is to it

mınxomaτ

^^

Downgoat

@quartata what else?

quartata

8:13 PM

The fact that asm.js is a massive hack that JS was not meant to do and that it involves significant effort?

Sherlock9

Dangit, I missed the first half of the Tetris run

quartata

Imagine trying to compile JS to a subset of Python

Anonymous

@Sherlock9 TGM1 was fairly uneventful. 4/4 clears.

Downgoat

@quartata which is why you use another language which compiles to it?

quartata

It's like trying to coerce an apple to an orange so you can compare them

Sherlock9

8:14 PM

@Mego Thanks

quartata

@Downgoat How does that change anything???

Quill

@quartata sounds like JavaScript's type system

Anonymous

@Quill Damnit you beat me to the joke

quartata

@Quill I actually realized that while I was typing it....

Anonymous

It doesn't start getting interesting until TGM2-3

Quill

8:14 PM

@Mego I'm sure you'll have another chance to make that joke

@quartata ;-) it has truly scarred us all

Anonymous

Oh no they're playing Clock Town Days 1-3

Anonymous

I can feel the stress level rising

Downgoat

@quartata this is still about speed? Why would you be using asm.js if you didn't care about speed?

LegionMammal978

So PNaCl isn't sodium chloride phosphate?

Poke

@Mego 2 should be starting soon

quartata

8:16 PM

@Downgoat Are you actually legitimately suggesting I try to transpile to regular JS

Anonymous

@LegionMammal978 That's Chrome's plugin API

Anonymous

PPAPI

quartata

@Mego That's Pepper

LegionMammal978

@Mego I know, jk

mınxomaτ

@Downgoat Watch some intro videos on PNaCl or read the docs. You are definitly missing huge chunks of technical information.

Geobits

8:16 PM

@LegionMammal978 No, it's a dumb way to write pinochle.

Anonymous

@quartata Oh whoops, whatever

Anonymous

@Geobits pinochle is also a dumb way to write pinochle

Geobits

True

Sherlock9

@Geobits Dangit. Was thinking of a good way to frame that joke :D

Downgoat

@quartata what? are you trying to write your own transpiler? I have no idea where you're going with this.

Geobits

8:17 PM

@Sherlock9 Let me know if you find one. I couldn't, obviously ;)

quartata

@Downgoat In order to not use JS I have to use a transpiler. I'm not saying I'm going to write it myself, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous the making and usage of one is

Quill

Downgoat your chatbot is broken

quartata

spooky

Downgoat

@Quill use the terminal. online REPL is borked

Quill

and why does it like to watch CSI so much

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

8:18 PM

@Quill That's not a chatbot.

Cool rant though.

Downgoat

@Quill I specifically left a comment in the source that this._csi is not crime scene investigation

2

quartata

@Downgoat hahahahahahaha

GH Link?

Downgoat

@quartata it's in C9 >_> you'll need to dig through history

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@Downgoat Then what it is? Or where is the comment?

Anonymous

@Downgoat Is that because even the forensics team doesn't want to look at it?

Sherlock9

8:19 PM

@Downgoat Yeah?

aditsu

cheddar silly interpreter?

Downgoat

quartata

@Mego Oh man that was just cold why would you do that

Downgoat

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 call stack index.

@Mego ;_; no

mınxomaτ

Mar 12 at 16:34, by mınxomaτ

Downgoat

8:20 PM

@mınxomaτ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

mınxomaτ

I pushed that right after the Paris attacks without even realizing.

2

aditsu

go go gadget TError

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@Downgoat What is the GUI? :3

orlp

zzzzz

so much setup time

Downgoat

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 GUI?

mınxomaτ

8:22 PM

Editor?

Downgoat

C9

orlp

yay it continues

mınxomaτ

Your font size is set to damn high.

TùxCräftîñg

to prove you that homemade parsers are the best i am going to create a programming language

Anonymous

@quartata I saw the opportunity and I took it

Downgoat

8:22 PM

@mınxomaτ its default font size

Anonymous

@TùxCräftîñg Good luck with that

mınxomaτ

@Downgoat It's too damn high.

Anonymous

whydoesitsuck.com/public/why-does-php-suck/comparison

mınxomaτ

@TùxCräftîñg Been there. 1/80 chance it'll work.

Anonymous

Why is the table not symmetric?!?!?

TùxCräftîñg

8:23 PM

i have already created a parser for a mathematica-like programming language using a homemade parser

orlp

@aditsu @Mego now it gna be good

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg parser source?

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Sorry for late reply; here you go:

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat i am going to github it

Anonymous

TGM2 hype :D

Maltysen

8:25 PM

@Downgoat look at this demo: gonativeclient.appspot.com/demo/earth its literally leveraging multithreading in a browser. How the hell can you do things like that with asm.js?

orlp

HYYPE

quartata

@Maltysen Serious question: how do you sleep in JS?

mınxomaτ

@Maltysen I just posted that link.

quartata

That's up there on my list of things that drive me nuts

Downgoat

 let to_execute = this.body;

unfortunate naming is unfortunate

mınxomaτ

8:26 PM

shake(this.booty)

Quill

@quartata node has a sleep library, but browser js doesn't support it

@mınxomaτ let that = this

ev3commander

remember this

29

Q: Oneboxing OEIS entries

In math.SE as well as in codegolf.SE we quite often use OEIS (Online Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences), which the standard reference for sequences in combinatorics and number theory. I think - and apparently I am not the only one - this would be an excellent addition of sites that do get onebox...

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@El'endiaStarman It's a private beta? D:

aditsu

@orlp don't see anything interesting so far

El'endia Starman

@zʏᴀʙiɴ101 Sorta? Seems like they're rolling it out gradually to get feedback.

Downgoat

8:27 PM

@quartata setTimeout

mınxomaτ

@quartata Make your own scheduler and run it as a worker. Innit great ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)?

aditsu

@El'endiaStarman thanks, huh, no picture?

quartata

@Downgoat ehhhh ok

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat github.com/tuxcrafting/ultimath

Maltysen

@Downgoat except that its inaccurate, of course

so people have to write third party libraries for it

Anonymous

8:28 PM

The GM challenge in TGM2 is interesting :P I remember it blowing my mind at AGDQ last year

quartata

Can you have multiple timeouts active at once?

Maltysen

@quartata yeah

Downgoat

@quartata yeah that's why they are async

mınxomaτ

That'll eventually block your browser if you're doing intensive calculations. Some browsers (e.g. Edge) will outright refuse to even load pages with bad/blocking *Timeout / interval functions.

El'endia Starman

@aditsu Oh there is. I just chose not to include it in the screenshot to maximize the number of new/different things included in my screen's area.

quartata

8:29 PM

@Downgoat Oh, OK. That's not terrible then

orlp

@aditsu it'll happen at the end

besides, this is already insane speed

quartata

@mınxomaτ oh ew

Maltysen

1 min ago, by Maltysen

@Downgoat except that its inaccurate, of course

1 min ago, by Maltysen

so people have to write third party libraries for it

Downgoat

@Maltysen yes, it sucks that the delay on my Hello, World alert is 1ms off. users are gonna hate my product

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat so homemade parsers sucks ?

mınxomaτ

8:30 PM

1ms is so long.

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg link to your parser?

quartata

@Downgoat A 1 MS delay is incredibly bad if you're doing something networking or graphics related

1 min ago, by quartata

@mınxomaτ oh ew

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat github.com/tuxcrafting/ultimath/blob/master/ultimath/_parser.py

Maltysen

@Downgoat are you kidding, you get max like 50 ms prescision

mınxomaτ

Oh shit, Germany's loosing >.>

quartata

8:30 PM

@Maltysen Oh my.

Downgoat

@quartata in almost all cases in JS you don't need to use setTimeout

for graphics requestAnimationFrame exists

Maltysen

@quartata well in most cases is more accurate than that, but doesn't work for smaller intervals at all

mınxomaτ

TùxCräftîñg

@quartata 60 fps is 16 ms

Downgoat

@Maltysen no?

Maltysen

8:31 PM

@Downgoat srry

meant 50 fps, 20 ms

still terrible

TùxCräftîñg

2 mins ago, by TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat so homemade parsers sucks ?

Downgoat

> var a = performance.now();
setTimeout(function() {
	console.log(performance.now() - a);
}, 50);
< 37244 = $1
> var a = performance.now();
setTimeout(function() {
	console.log(performance.now() - a);
}, 50);
< 37250 = $2
> var a = performance.now();
setTimeout(function() {
	console.log(performance.now() - a);
}, 50);
< 37256 = $3

Anonymous

TGM2 is getting intense :D

orlp

@aditsu you do realize they play with instant gravity, right?

they have to maintain a 'pyramid'

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg sorry, I meant lexer

mınxomaτ

8:32 PM

@TùxCräftîñg No they don't. Look, I've managed to get a homemade parser, linker and assembler all in one thing working.

orlp

because once a block is down, it can't go up

Maltysen

@orlp oh shit

aditsu

it's a little bit exciting now

orlp

@aditsu and now it starts...

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat tokenizer is here

aditsu

8:33 PM

but.. it's still tetris :p

Anonymous

Aww RIP

Downgoat

@Downgoat Clearly 0.006ms will break my app

Anonymous

They didn't get S9 :(

orlp

nvm.. :(

they weren't fast enough

Downgoat

> regexs = [

so are you using regex or your own im confused

mınxomaτ

8:34 PM

]

Maltysen

@Downgoat it works for things like that, but i tried writing an emulator for something inside js, and as soon as it starts geting a little intensive it sucks ass

Quill

I feel like part of the reason the apple website has so much "traffic" is because Safari uses it as a new tab page

orlp

@aditsu they play at super super fast speeds, with instant gravity, and in the final part the blocks literally become invisible

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat i use a regex-based tokenizer and a top-down parser

Anonymous

Grandmaster mode is so much more intense than master mode

mınxomaτ

8:34 PM

@Quill Same thing with calling IE "the most used browser".

Maltysen

@Mego what's the difference?

Downgoat

@Maltysen then you're probably not doing it right. They are APIs to solve 99% of the problems you'll have

orlp

@Maltysen blocks are invisible

Maltysen

@orlp what do you mean?

Downgoat

@Quill i think they've changed it to google?

orlp

8:35 PM

@Maltysen that you can't see the playing field

you have to play in your mind

Anonymous

@Maltysen In grandmaster mode, the drop speed stays as high as it is at the end, and eventually the entire board goes invisible

Anonymous

As opposed to the slower speed and just a few blocks going invisible in master mode

Maltysen

@orlp wait, only we're seeing it?

orlp

@Maltysen no, they didn't reach grandmaster mode :(

they weren't fast enough

the game deemed them not worthy

Downgoat

@TùxCräftîñg okay >_> I meant lexer not parser.

quartata

8:36 PM

@Downgoat why the fuck should I have to use a library for alarm which POSIX decreed to be one of the essential things that all UNIX platforms have

Anonymous

They didn't get S9 before 999

Maltysen

@orlp 999/999 would put them in grandmaster mode?

TùxCräftîñg

@Downgoat lexer != parser

Anonymous

They hit 999, but they were only S8

orlp

@Maltysen it has time requirements, score requirements, etc...

it's kinda complicated

Maltysen

8:36 PM

S8?

Anonymous

They each needed one more tetris (4x line clear) before hitting 999 to go grandmaster mode

Downgoat

@quartata because that's not applicable in the context of a web app?

quartata

@Mego ooh is sgdq on?

Anonymous

For S5-S8, to get to the next rank, you have to beat a score threshold and get a tetris within a time limit

Anonymous

@quartata Yep, tetris block :D

Maltysen

8:37 PM

will there be another round?

Sherlock9

@quartata Yup. Been on since the 3rd :D

Anonymous

@Maltysen Not of TGM2 Grandmaster Challenge

Anonymous

They're gonna do true death mode or whatever it's called next

Anonymous

Which is even more insane

Maltysen

is it invisible from the beginning?

quartata

8:38 PM

@Downgoat About two mnths ago I set out to do something in JS (infinite scroll). The first thing I googled was how to do sleep and I had to do a shitty while loop compare date monster.

Anonymous

Watch and see :)

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@Mego Rules of that mode?

Maltysen

@quartata I wonder if people just start using NaCl and just ignoring FF, whether or not they'll catch up

Anonymous

I find it entertaining that we're discussing SGDQ more than The Bridge

TùxCräftîñg

what is NaCl ?

quartata

8:39 PM

What if i want a button to do something networking related two seconds later? Do I just swallow the potentially late packets because of settimeouts inaccuracy? These are totally relevant to webapps

@Maltysen Possibly

Maltysen

also multithreading in a browser!

still can't wrap my head around that

Quill

Oh hey, Redux is really nice

Downgoat

@quartata I think you don't understand that some languages are different from others and JS is one of those languages. You'll have to actually bother to learn the APIs, and that understand that things aren't done the in the exact same way as C but with different function names. Your solution is a completely incorrect way for accomplishing infinite scolling in JS, where rather you're supposed to use event listeners.

Using while loops to do infinite scolling is just asking for the browser to crash

quartata

Actually had nothing to do with that. I just needed a sleep for populating the page with the new content so that it didn't appear all at once

Downgoat

@quartata most promise libraries have a sleep/delay function.

quartata

8:43 PM

You can't know everything an end user will do. Why not just give them all the tools?

@Downgoat which goes back to me saying why on earth would i need a library for something that basic

Downgoat

@quartata you do get all the tools?

quartata

Well clearly not since i need a library

TùxCräftîñg

i have found this in my github ._. github.com/tuxcrafting/surprise

Anonymous

It's the same problem as C and C++: there's a whole lot of basic, necessary stuff missing from the standard library

Downgoat

@quartata browsers have built-in promises and you can do what you said pretty easily using:

quartata

8:45 PM

Except even C has alarm. It's a POSIX call that is accurate

Downgoat

function populate() {
    document.blah.innerHTML += foo;
    setTimeout(populate, 100);
}

document.onload = populate;

Anonymous

@quartata I meant like std::string::split not existing

quartata

sure in this case. but what about my button example?

orlp

@aditsu ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

Downgoat

@quartata so something like?:

Anonymous

8:47 PM

Wow that was insane on the time

mınxomaτ

Nah ghad. We actually lost. ;_;

aditsu

@orlp not really.. :p

15 mins ago, by aditsu

but.. it's still tetris :p

orlp

so when usain bolt runs 100m in <10sec

you say

"but... it's still running"?

Geobits

-0==

Downgoat

function sendpackets(packetlist) {
    packetlist.map(packet => new Promise((y, n) => {
        // send packet asynchronously
    });
    Promise.all(packetlist).then(success => {
        // do something with success
    });
}

quartata

8:50 PM

Wasn't my example also that's an es6 feature

at least I thought

Downgoat

so? that's like complaining python doesn't have full unicode support, and when you learn python 3 does, complaining that's python 3.

most browsers support promises and you can use a polyfill it by inserting a single line in your html.

Anonymous

@Downgoat Your argument is invalid because Python 2 has unicode support, since 2.0 (in 1999!)

aditsu

running is boring too, yes, but at least it's more practical

quartata

No that would be if the only interpreter for python 3 was hidden at the bottom of a filing cabinet behind an unused lavatory with a sign that said beware of the leopard

2

Downgoat

@Mego it was an example and I don't know shit about python :P

Anonymous

8:53 PM

@quartata Wait you mean I didn't have to go through all that to get my interpreter?

Anonymous

149 rep for today, only 51 more for a b2b cap :D

Anonymous

My rep graph is... interesting...

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@Mego Back to back rep cap?

Why the back to back?

Downgoat

@quartata That's irrelevant and absurdly exaggerated

aditsu

@orlp besides, an AI could do it twice as fast

Anonymous

8:55 PM

Anonymous

@aditsu AIs can run now? Crap, the robot revolution is here!

quartata

@Downgoat A quote from Hitchhikers. You get the point though. My boss would scream at me if i told him our webapp required Chrome Canary

Downgoat

@quartata remysharp.com/2010/10/08/what-is-a-polyfill

orlp

@aditsu get ready to not be entertained at all in 50 years anymore then

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

@Mego You have transgressed the rep cap twice? :O

aditsu

8:56 PM

@orlp if I want to be entertained, I'll watch entertaining stuff :)

mınxomaτ

@quartata Learning JavaScript is like finding a scalpel when thus far you've been trying to dissect frogs using a chainsaw. Except then later you learn that most of the things you have to dissect are whales and the chainsaw was better after all.

3

quartata

@Downgat this doesnt even load

@mınxomaτ this is 100% accurate

zʏᴀʙiɴ101

Why the back to back in back to back rep cap? :/

quartata

It means one after another

Downgoat

@quartata okay well then reference this message instead

mınxomaτ

8:58 PM