The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-07-05 (page 4 of 5)

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El'endia Starman

8:00 PM

I think there's a way to use Chrome's dev tools to check on that. Google it.

I've been looking

you can look at an entire page

@NathanMerrill I ran a Telerik report over a data set that had 1000 rows, and my virtual machine's server ran out of memory. I removed a couple of containers that were "per row" (translated to thousands less DOM elements) and the memory footprint went way down.

so DOM elements do have a significant impact

good to know

But it probably depends on the page. Your's may not have thousands of elements on it

I'm more asking theoretically, I'm not actually working on a page

8:05 PM

user image

Now it's more complex

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat your userscript just died on me

Maybe add some perlin noise to the overlay objects to make them faded

What are some old tech things you guys had to suffer through? (e.g. floppy disks)

cords

still do :)

blowing game cartridges

8:09 PM

@HelkaHomba Pressing "Safely remove USB device" button everytime I remove a pendrive. Pendrives are technically outdated

@NathanMerrill I tried running var n = 200000000; var arr = []; for (var i = 0; i <= n; i++) { arr.push(i); } on jsfiddle to see if making a huge array in javascript impacted memory, and it did. The browser crashed between n = 100000000 and n = 200000000.

So I couldn't keep increasing the size but from 1 to 100000000 it kept growing in task manager

oooh, that gives me an idea

create divs in a loop

@Rainbolt Well, use a typed array.

@mınxomaτ In order to accomplish whaT?

@Rainbolt Why woudln't creating an array, wich needs memory impact memory?

8:11 PM

@Rainbolt Greater dimensions.

Sorry, I should have said significantly impact memory

Creating a huge array doesn't impact memory, filling it up does

also, how is this deleted answer empty

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@NathanMerrill ZWSP, my friend :)

-.-

8:13 PM

@Bálint I meant created in the English, not programming, sense.

@Rainbolt Let's count, a number is 4 bytes, 100000000 * 4 bytes is 400000000 bytes, wich equals to 381 KB + indexing

@HelkaHomba loading programs from cassette tapes, and difficulty of making accurate copies

+ the additional cost of allocating memory

Let's test the technological age of TNB users

@Bálint the term "pendrives" (never heard of it) may be outdated, but the devices are very much not

8:15 PM

@aditsu Wait, maybe that's only pendrive in my language

No, it isn'

> a non-Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo video game console

So, atari?

> dial-up internet

Dial-up internet still exists

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@HelkaHomba does grandma's home count for the tv?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Not if its not your home

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

k

@Bálint Probably. But point is many people have had to use it in the past

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba I checked off most of the things on that list. Wow, I'm old.

8:17 PM

If you're 15 or younger, then just remember that it's nevertheless probably too late to be a child prodigy.

Just add 5 years

@Bálint There are others. e.g. sega dreamcast

@Rainbolt my computer is struggling to handle 1 mil elements (page isn't loading, and is swapping to a standstill)

@HelkaHomba Yeah, sega

that said, I can't get the page to actually crash

forgot about tha

El'endia Starman

8:19 PM

SEEEGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Didn't that animation take up like half the cart or something?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman hi XD

@NathanMerrill Why do you have 1 million elements

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

8:21 PM

bruh

I don't know what's an 8-track tape, never used a game console, I always had a choice not to use a stinky mac (and usually made that choice), other than that I think I used them all

El'endia Starman

@muddyfish I can imagine it'd take a significant amount of memory, but half the cartridge? No way.

> not to use a stinky mac

23 mins ago, by Nathan Merrill

hey, if I'm looking to reduce the memory impact of a page, what portions would you target? JS? Too many DOM elements? Complex CSS layouts? (Obviously, all of these have an impact on memory, but what usually takes the majority)

Finally someone

@NathanMerrill Animations mostly

Static page gets rendered once

Then it mostly throws away the non-necessary stuff

8:22 PM

@Bálint cousin to the big mac

well, sure if you have a video on your page, that's going to be memory intensive

but on your typical webpage, is the majority of RAM used with the DOM or the JS?

I believe its the DOM

@NathanMerrill If you use chrome, press F12, press the 3 vertical dots, "More tools"->"Rendering settings", then in that window, select "Enable paint flashing"

Now, make the flashing area smaller

I'm not actually working on reducing the memory impact of a webpage

@NathanMerrill An easy fix would be to use a non-visible 3d CSS transform on it

Is reading input from the program’s filename allowed?

8:25 PM

You wouldn't think, but 3d transforms are faster on most computers than 2d ones

anyways, this chat is currently at 54,200K in memory, but 18,372K in JS memory

@Lynn Nope, loophole

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat Is there a better way to do this?:

class Thing {
    constructor(){}

    bar(v){
        Thing.staticProperty += v;
    }
}
Thing.staticProperty = "foo";

I thought the loophole was for code

@NathanMerrill Yeah, but it also uses PHP and such

8:26 PM

I mean as an alternative to STDIN

how is that relevant

@NathanMerrill That takes up some memory too

I'm not running the PHP

php is server-side..

@aditsu But it still communicates with you

8:27 PM

but my gmail page is at 94,000K in memory but 164,000 in javascript memory

wat?

I'm guessing its storing a bunch of emails in JS memory

@NathanMerrill That simply means, that page memory =/= JS memor + elements

correct

I'm not sure what the equation for memory is, but it doesn't include JS memory

this tab is using 429,684K here

8:29 PM

@NathanMerrill Again, using a (0,0,0) 3d translate on it transfers all that on the GPU

@aditsu Chrome?

Chromium

@aditsu Almost

@NathanMerrill M = E/(C^2)

lol

m = rise / run

8:30 PM

@aditsu how long has your tab been open?

maybe about a day since the last crash, I'm not sure

if it didn't crash, it would have been several weeks probably

so, I just refreshed, and it wen to 33,000K

meaning that appx 400,000K memory has been allocated in the past day

@El'endiaStarman 1/8 reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zretu/… ("reportedly")

and, giving that a super rough estimate, that means 300K of memory every minute

I refreshed and it didn't change, I think I need to close and reopen it

8:35 PM

yeah

I found that out too :)

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba That's pretty substantial. Wow.

um... and I just noticed I might have been checking the wrong tab :/

El'endia Starman

@aditsu What about a hard refresh?

this tab is grouped with 3 others..

codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/31433

I don't want to be mean to a noob :(

8:36 PM

lol

@aditsu F12 to open console -> right click reload button -> hard reload (in chrome)

I think shift+f5 does it

anyway, I reopened this tab and I can't find it yet in the task manager :p

I'm up to 58,000K already

argh, I think it got grouped again.. dammit Chromium, how can I make it stop doing that :(

I found a new technique to secure images on the internet against copying

Pure CSS images: jsfiddle.net/8ujz7os0

El'endia Starman

8:39 PM

Watermarking?

@El'endiaStarman You can photoshop that out

@Bálint print screen :p

El'endia Starman

@Bálint How do those compare in file size to regular images?

@aditsu ._.

the best way to prevent somebody from copying an image is to not post it

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

8:40 PM

@Bálint lies, there is some html

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ._.

@Bálint and a way to infuriate people who just want to save an image for personal use

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

A 50*50 image becomes 99602 bytes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

code (curling|bowling)

8:41 PM

user image

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

wow, that looks much better than the one on my browser

@Geobits ._.

Huh, it wasn't too hard to copy after all.

I think I've seen (some years ago) a site that used flash and was hiding the images except within a certain area around the mouse cursor

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

user image

8:43 PM

Ok, then I just found a way to make pure CSS and HTML images

you could reduce the size of the image if you generate the CSS using JS

...but then you'd need the image :)

codepen.io/mcdorli/pen/pbwOAG

yeah, just put that on your page, and auto convert all images to CSS

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ on mine there are little gray circles if i zoom slightly

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

huh

8:45 PM

@HelkaHomba Because I put it together from pixels

And the browser doesn't like the idea

oooh, the other problem with CSS images is that they don't stretch like normal images

maybe I do want a really fat man

4

I can't seem to make this tab go in a separate process T_T.. I wish I had a browser that did that

@NathanMerrill don't worry, you'll find someone

I may have to write that browser myself, since it doesn't seem to exist :(

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I will use it

8:47 PM

Use a separate browser?

then it will use a separate window

@El'endiaStarman You're one of today's lucky 10,000 I guess

@AlexA. Should I feel weird that I've literally never done anything involving fireworks or firecrackers before

El'endia Starman

@quartata I don't think #P is known that widely. :P

I actually detest fireworks (although I find them interesting chemistry wise)

the city I grew up in has a "community" fireworks show. They lift quite a lot of firework restrictions for the night as long as you do them at a particular park

so there are lots and lots of people launching fireworks

its so much better than any other show I've seen

8:54 PM

@aditsu I may be mistaken, but doesn't Chrome use separate processes for each tab, and then some?

@SirBidenXVII yeah, and one for the browser and one for each of the extensions

it was supposed to, but it has a very strong tendency to put multiple tabs in one process, especially when you have many tabs

Oh jeez, that made a loud noise!

and I haven't found any way to stop that horrible behavior

yeah, it merges tabs. Often if you ctrl-click a link, it'll be under the same process

8:56 PM

Ah, okay. I ctrl-click a lot...and usually have way too many tabs open.

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill Is that effectively the same as middle-click?

no idea. ctrl-click opens as a new tab

I don't have a middle button

Yeah, I guess it is. Just tried it. Today I learned something!

no clickable wheel?

ctrl-click also doesn't transfer focus to the window

I don't have a wheel

I actually prefer a touchpad in most cases

El'endia Starman

8:57 PM

So far, sounds like ctrl+click and middle click are basically the same.

I can middle-click on my touchpad :)

yeah, I could set that up too, but I find that gestures are way too easy to get wrong

I can't stand using the touchpad (or the keyboard) on my laptop

for a while, I dealt with an issue of my start menu randomly opening up, until I realized that my touchpad though I was quad-tapping it

@SirBidenXVII so don't you find that it groups multiple tabs in one process?

8:59 PM

Throwing this out there again strawpoll.me/10673742

"I've had no choice but to use" means if I grew up using a beige pc, that doesn't count because I could have just declined to use it?

The wording is weird

Wait that can't be right. Who would be forced to play video games?

I haven't studied it extensively. I just know that if I've been using Chrome for a while, the Task Manager gets really cluttered. I just opened six tabs, and not one new process appeared. Guess it's more complicated than I thought.

I was so addicted I had no choice

So addicted to a console you've never even used?

@Rainbolt I don't play video games, but sometimes I'm required to by some social convention

9:02 PM

That's a stretch

@Rainbolt nah, the first 10K games were by my choice, but that 10001st game was out of my control :)

@Rainbolt I mean you had no reasonable alternative.

Okay, that clarifies

I mainly meant to weed out "I once tried my dad's old 8-track player" things

Lol, I've opted to use a few of the things on that list

9:04 PM

I actually selected floppy disk because I would use CDs to transfer data between school and home, and ended up using floppy because it was rewritable

I once saved a paper for school on a 3.5" floppy, because I was having problems with all of my other removable media...

I had to look up whether Sega was owned by Sony. Is that sad?

@quartata I wouldn't say so, no. I like the pretty colors and chemistry and stuff but otherwise fireworks are loud, polluting, disruptive, and often scary for both war veterans and animals.

@Rainbolt No

No, I don't know it either, and I'm not sad.

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I had that problem too!

9:05 PM

I grew up with a black-and-white tv that used vacuum tubes :)

@El'endiaStarman out of curiosity, did you also have troubling disabling the quad-click?

when I was very little

@aditsu Cool story, grandpa ;P

it took a couple of minutes for the image to come on

El'endia Starman

@NathanMerrill I never disabled it, actually.

9:06 PM

(Only kidding--we had something like that as well)

ah. Well, when I would restart my computer, the settings for my touchpad would reset back to defaults. I had to make some sort of registry change to make my changes permanent

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I feel depressingly young. (Said no one ever.)

One time, our TV broke, so we got the CRT with a built-in VHS player out of the garage, and we watched I Dream of Jeannie on a 14" screen.

apparently, synaptics was thinking the computer was a fresh install every time I booted my computer

hey, have any of you played Spellweaver

Why do cool sounding things come with red flags :/

New Sandboxed Posts

9:11 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Homework Question Challenge codegolf Hello! My name is Stud Dent. My professor gave me an exercise and I want you to make it for me. Lets take a number in any way you want and print or return all the Smile! needed in the correct output. I will have to write your program byte by byte in a mail,...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@HelkaHomba brb

@HelkaHomba I'm disappointed. I tried opening up the MS-DOS console and got uncaught exception: SimulateInfiniteLoop

@HelkaHomba it seems snappier than the real thing :) and about your question, because of money and greed

@HelkaHomba its not even that slow

@Maltysen Can you get online in it?

@HelkaHomba like open ie?

9:19 PM

yeah

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I try opening up internet explorer and get uncaught exception: SimulateInfiniteLoop

Even back then IE wanted to be your default browser.

@HelkaHomba gimme a second, i tried to use alt-f4 on it and closed my browser

here it says "Emulation aborted due to nested emulation timeout."

> In some cases, Em-DOSBox will abort when the emulator is taking too long, to avoid freezing the browser. There's not much that can be done about this, unfortunately. Even with a higher timeout, you still see this message and have it abort on you when trying to do certain things (open Internet Explorer, for instance). That being said, I am looking into this.

It doesn't do anything here

Now it started

oh yeah, and Uncaught SimulateInfiniteLoop in the browser console

hmm, a virtualbox image would be more practical..

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

9:26 PM

@NathanMerrill no, but looks cool

Does it only take ages to boot up for me?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

user image

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Is that your post?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

I have one with a perfect 30 though?

@Bálint That's a question on LaTex.SE about making a tilde.

Ok, I don't have time to wait for this to boot up, maybe if I have something else to do

BTW, can you guys help me? Wich is better?

user image

user image

9:36 PM

I'm installing windoze 95 ^_^

@aditsu On what?

vbox

@aditsu Good luck

thanks :)

But I don't know what you could use it for

El'endia Starman

9:37 PM

@Bálint This one's better, I think.

@Dennis Can you pull MATL? No hurry at all. Also, thanks for the correction!

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ just an FYI, no PR's have been merged/updated for Five.js since 2015.

ugh, I hit a bug

making progress..

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Generate partitions of an integer mathsequence Given a positive integer n generate all partitions of n. Partitions of an integer are all multisets of positive integers that sum to n. Multisets are set that allow for multiple copies of the same entry, but are still unordered, so following mul...

@AlexA. This basically summarizes all the reasons why don't like them

9:46 PM

Oh no, there is a tie in Distinct Sieves...

Unfortunately I live close (well, not that close but close enough to hear them) to a place that does a fireworks show every 4th :/

1

Q: Dig to Australia - antipodes

Background Countless generations of children have wondered where they would end up if they dug a hole directly downwards. It turns out that this would, unsurprisingly, be rather dangerous, but anyway... Antipodes are points that are directly opposite each other on the Earth's surface. This mean...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@miles Dennis wins, his is earlier answer? Or just wait.

@Bálint This would be great except our tour page is trash

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

9:48 PM

Maybe when SE makes it better

@quartata This was discussed before, I only post it if the currently pending text gets confirmed

Suever's answer from 6 bytes to 4 bytes is the same (minus the filtering step), since Dennis helped them understand that rule I tried to use about truthy/falsy definitions

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Isn't that the joke Node JS library?

Don't think it needs anything more

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

yeah

conor made a pr for five.imaginary = 5i, with math.js compatibility

Ooh, new podcast. Judging by the title it's about yak shaving

9:55 PM

it works! \o/

@aditsu Yeah, but what can you do with it?

I can play freecell :D

@aditsu I thinjk you can play freecell on any windows computer regardless of version

It's kind of funny how few names I recognize of PPCG's twitter followers

my windoze 7 vm doesn't have it

9:57 PM

Only recognize about 5 + Dyalog

very memories, wow

@aditsu Install DOS, then you can actually play games AND run win 95

I am already playing games and running win 95

@aditsu Sorry, fun games

it's quite fun :)

10:01 PM

@aditsu Trugg and Jill of the Jungle are fun

@aditsu Solitaire?

nah, solitaire sucks

@aditsu Then what do you play

@HelkaHomba never heard of those

6 mins ago, by aditsu

I can play freecell :D

@aditsu I don't think you understand what fun means

10:03 PM

freecell is solitaire, no?

@HelkaHomba I think yes

@Bálint I do, but do you? :p

@HelkaHomba different game, you can say it's solitaire in the sense that it's single-player

> never used a game console

@aditsu I think I wasted at least 30 hours in Stardew valley so far, when I got it only on last friday.

Yet you joyfully game on win 95 ._.

10:04 PM

@Bálint don't know what that is

@HelkaHomba sure :)

@aditsu Seriously, try DOS

@aditsu store.steampowered.com/app/413150

It's the current most-played game

beside minecraft

@Bálint why? I can run dos programs in windoze

But minecraft doesn't count

@aditsu I means DOS games

yes; also I don't have DOS games right now

yay, I won \o/

@aditsu It's only 4 year, and the copyright law expires for every game

If they don't renew it

10:08 PM

I'd rather try to get online

I should probably actually use my Twitter. I could recount old war stories against such notorious foes as the Stale Oyster Crackers and the Silverfish in the Linear Algebra Textbook

@Bálint Uh no Dota 2 is?

yay, I installed TCP/IP, must reboot :p

What are you doing?

@quartata Ok, then it's a recently picked up game

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@quartata o_O

pls send teh tweat links

10:12 PM

I've never tweeted anything, that's the point

oh jeez, I set the gateway ip and have to reboot again

strawpoll.me/10674900

Uhhh that's pretty obvious

What is "Google (Alphabet)"

Alphabet is the holding company thing for Google

10:14 PM

Ah

yeah

Okay my fingers aren't working for some reason

El'endia Starman

@HelkaHomba I voted Google, but Facebook and Microsoft were close contenders.

wtf, DNS is disabled by default?!

I could get by with bing and non-gmail I guess but no YouTube is the kicker

10:15 PM

You could get by without Google Search?

lmao, have you ever used Bing

There are other search engines

It's total shit. Once I typed in "centos 6" and the top recommended autocomplete was "centos 6 recipes"

@quartata not extensively

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ oh well

Actually, it might have been Yahoo. But they're the same thing now so

10:16 PM

@uoɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Any progress on your domain appraisal program?

bing is pretty good for ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

wuh?

oh

This is really tough for me. I have stock in both Google and Microsoft, but more in Google. I have an email account with both Google and Microsoft, but the Microsoft one is the one I use at work and use far more.

I'm undecided :-/

@quartata Ok. Answer this: Would you rather have no Google but yes Wikipedia, or no Wikipedia but yes Google?

@HelkaHomba No Wikipedia Yes Google

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

10:19 PM

Yes google because google googles wikipedia :P

But half (my) Google searches are really for the wiki articles

And Google has them cached already :P

Does anyone else use google to find website that you probably know the url of but don't care to type it all in?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

yes

Yes, that's what normal people do

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

10:20 PM

Or, my url bar autocompletes it

damn, this thing is hard

Uh

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

er

it's because you were using bing isn't it

10 mins ago, by aditsu

bing is pretty good for ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

not related :p

I'm talking about setting up internet access in win 95

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

are you using that emulator?

10:29 PM

no, virtualbox

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

what's that?

it's THE virtual machine environment

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

oh, I see

oh God, I can't press up-arrow to get the previous command >_<

still can't ping my own ip..

@LuisMendo Pulled. Would have been sooner if I didn't have internet issues...

10:40 PM

So, a local news channel accidentally played a piece of footage from the competitive news channel instead of a live footage from their crew.

Biggest Splashdowns From Peru | Red Bull Flugtag 2016

plane-crash

@flawr I'd jump further than some "planes" "flew"

@aditsu If you show us a screenshpot of chatting in TNB using Windows 95 I'll give you a cookie

still can't ping anything

10:56 PM

@Dennis Thanks! There was no hurry at all. I'm amazed at how quickly you always pull

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

Pop quiz: Can you spam 2 keys (e.g. ABABABABAB) in a row for a couple seconds, fast, keeping the 1212 pattern?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ How fast?

But yes, I can

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

ABABABA

And with hpw many hands

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

about ^ per second

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