The Nineteenth Byte

Maltysen

2:00 AM

@NathanMerrill post fix with D?

trichoplax

If you put the year last, you will always confuse someone

Maltysen

what about times?

and datetimes?

trichoplax

Standardise all your times and dates to light-metres since the epoch

Nathan Merrill

I don't know if adding a D will work

PhiNotPi

@Maltysen It's one of those topics I know more about than I probably should (as in, I have no reason for knowing anything about it). I just read that apparently some people can do the Valsalva maneuver without using their hands (aka using nose muscles to close the nostrils).

Nathan Merrill

2:01 AM

because my lexer is going to split the tokens at /

trichoplax

@Maltysen an answer before it hit chat? Wow...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat What is the difference between var and let?

cheddar

Nathan Merrill

maybe I allow number separation using something else than / ?

like 30:04:2015

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ let is for constants

@NathanMerrill what do you mean?

Nathan Merrill

well, / is just a seperator

I could say that user-defined literals can incorporate multiple numbers, but they need a seperator

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2:05 AM

@Downgoat ... why is everything a unprintable object whos value is undefined??

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ?

are you running t_repl

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

oh, nvm

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ oh, var isn't supported in the repl yet

only the t_repl

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

something borked

trichoplax

@Maltysen I'll upvote if there's an explanation...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2:07 AM

@Downgoat yup, stuff is borked

Rikers-MacBook-Pro:~ rikerw$ cheddar
Cheddar> r = 2
< Unprintable object of class "Object" with literal value undefined
Cheddar> print r
readline.js:945
            throw err;
            ^

TypeError: Cannot read property 'has' of undefined
    at CheddarEval.step (/Users/rikerw/.Cheddar/dist/interpreter/core/eval/eval.js:155:55)
    at CheddarEval.exec (/Users/rikerw/.Cheddar/dist/interpreter/core/eval/eval.js:259:34)
    at Interface.<anonymous> (/Users/rikerw/.Cheddar/dist/interpreter/tests/repl.js:155:38)

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ := is assignment

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

damnit, i forgot

>_> can't code at 7pm

Helka Homba

Still a chance to win: strawpoll.me/10304377/r

New Main Posts

2

Q: Mean bits: an average challenge

Given N >= 1, output the mean number of bits in an integer from 0 to N - 1 Specification The output can be calculated as the sum of the number of bits in the binary representation of each number from 0 to N-1, divided by N. The binary representation of a number has no leading zeroes in this co...

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ it shouldn't throw a JS error but atm I'm transitioning to a larger parser so stuff is borked

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ WAT, I have wasted 4 hours here already ._.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2:09 AM

lol

Helka Homba

Join us: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/36641/the-block

PhiNotPi

Nose muscle control poll: strawpoll.me/10304548 I haven't been able to find any solid resources on this.

Downgoat

@PhiNotPi You can make a multiple select poll

PhiNotPi

@Downgoat But then I can't tell the difference between two people voting for separate things or one person voting for two things.

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi D. Contract nostrils

Helka Homba

2:14 AM

E. Turn them inside-out

PhiNotPi

@trichoplax I was thinking that was actually part of B, but I guess I'm wrong.

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi They use different muscles, and you can do both at the same time (which looks weird)

Helka Homba

Great, meta.stackexchange.com/questions/279613/… has been marked status-completed when it's definitely not >:(

Nathan Merrill

bar isn't too bad of a separator

20|04|2001D

trichoplax

@HelkaHomba I guess it means "we know what went wrong and it's being dealt with". I'm up to 2014 results so far

Geobits

2:17 AM

Why do dates need separators? 20160524 seems fairly fine to me.

Nathan Merrill

for clarity and possible ambiguities

trichoplax

@Geobits That actually extends unambiguously to arbitrarily long years - was about to criticise and then realised it works

Nathan Merrill

what if we are in year 20?

Geobits

0020

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill use - or _ or /

trichoplax

2:18 AM

As long as the day and month are always 2 digits each the year can be anything 0+

PhiNotPi

So I guess I'm alone in not being able to wiggle my nose side-to-side.

Helka Homba

@trichoplax True. Though always having the 2-digit day/month come first might be easier to deal with

Quill

so I was just playing a mobile game and levelled up... the game glitched out and levelled me up by 20ish and set my energy to 1736

Nathan Merrill

@Geobits but then user defined literals have to do string parsing

as opposed to simply being passed a number

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill If _ is a valid number separator in your language, then just use that

Geobits

2:19 AM

That's how I name my myriad photo folders anyway. Works well for sorting for sure.

trichoplax

@HelkaHomba The year coming first is standard now...

Nathan Merrill

@Downgoat why is _ preferable to | ?

(I don't have any opinion one way or another)

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill many languages use _ to seperate numbers, e.g. 123_456 == 123456

Helka Homba

@NathanMerrill Windows filenames can't have | in them but can have _ (if that matters at all)

Nathan Merrill

how are those even equal?

trichoplax

2:20 AM

@PhiNotPi I said yes but it also involves moving the philtrum side to side so I'm not sure if you meant something different

Downgoat

@NathanMerrill what do you mean?

Nathan Merrill

I'm not sure what that syntax even means. Do you have example languages?

Downgoat

wait, I didn't mean "seperate numbers" :| uh... I don't know what it's called

trichoplax

@Downgoat to separate a single number from itself?

@Downgoat Is it for line continuation?

Nathan Merrill

that said _ isn't a bad choice

its implies in most languages "a continuation"

some_var

we know that that is 1 name

and 2015_05_30

Downgoat

2:22 AM

like you write 1,234,456 instead of 1234456 for clarity so some languages use _ to serve the same clarity as , (swift, ruby, cheddar, and more have this)

Nathan Merrill

means 1 literal

PhiNotPi

@trichoplax TIL, actually.

Downgoat

python.org/dev/peps/pep-0515

trichoplax

@PhiNotPi So you can?

Nathan Merrill

I had no idea that was a thing

PhiNotPi

2:23 AM

@trichoplax I'm actually still not quite sure.

trichoplax

> # grouping hexadecimal addresses by words
addr = 0xCAFE_F00D

That's really confusing

Downgoat

well it's python...

trichoplax

No I mean saying "words" and then embedding English words in the space of hex words

Meanbits

Yea, that's quite ambiguous :/

trichoplax

There are two meanings, and they are both true, which prevents the ambiguity being resolved, leaving my brain in a loop

@Meanbits Welcome to TNB, Meanbits

Meanbits

2:27 AM

Thanks. What's this place all about, anyway? I came over from GameDev.

trichoplax

@Meanbits It's mainly about having fun - no need for rules or anything

Meanbits

Sounds like hell.

trichoplax

You'll like it here

Quill

Welcome to Hell, who gives a shit?

►

Meanbits

It's been a warm welcome so far.

What's with the upside-down goat, though?

Sp3000

2:30 AM

Yeah, hell does get pretty warm.

Downgoat

@Meanbits OH GOD YOUR EVIL TWIN TOOK OVER YOUR ACCOUNT

3

Quill

@Meanbits Oh you still see that guy, just click the profile, and then the ignore button and you're all set

Sp3000

btw, add Julia to the underscores-in-numeric-literals list

Downgoat

@Quill ;_; y u do dis

Meanbits

@Quill Oh, is that all it takes? Cool.

Sp3000

2:31 AM

Although I am curious how many languages allow for that

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat apparently not? ^

:P

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

He has 43k rep, and the game dev logo is next to it. What does that tell you?

>_>

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Meanbits took over his account and set the profile to game dev?

Meanbits

I'm so confused right now. Evil twin?

Quill

2:33 AM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ that you're pretty good at photoshop

You should all watch this:

You Suck at Excel with Joel Spolsky

►

Downgoat

@Meanbits oh, you have a twin which isn't evil but made an evil chat bot, you're the evil twin

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ 43k network rep.

trichoplax

What makes you think any of them are not evil??

Meanbits

@Downgoat If that was supposed to clear up my confusion, you may want to try again.

trichoplax

We're all evil in here. If you want good you need The 2nd Monitor

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

2:36 AM

oh heavens what happened to geobits and who is this imposter

Helka Homba

I miss Bigtoes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

I miss Calvin >_>

Quill

I miss when this room was still funny

Meanbits

I miss when CRers used their own chat :P

Umm, I mean, err... I don't miss anything, since I'm clearly new here.

trichoplax

lots of new anagrams

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

2:39 AM

say i havs a function that monadicaly squares an arg, what should it do dyadocally?

Helka Homba

Multiply them

PhiNotPi

@trichoplax "I Stab Men"

Meanbits

@trichoplax I like I'm Absent

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

this func is represented by the superscript 2

Meanbits

That seems like a poor choice for multiplication :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

2:43 AM

>_> * is multiply

Meanbits

What does it do monadically if not square?

Helka Homba

So why can't single arg * square? (And single arg + double)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

monadic * is sign, monadic + is abs, and i still have a superscripg two in the cod page

Helka Homba

Then how about a^2 + b^2, possibly square rooting it. I.e. distance

Maltysen

@trichoplax explanation added

trichoplax

2:46 AM

@Maltysen Yay :)

Cyoce

Agggghhh. The curse client just added their own markdown, but its syntax is different from normal. Why?

Meanbits

@HelkaHomba That seems somewhat reasonable, if possibly underused.

Maltysen

@Meanbits somethings a little different, not sure what...

Meanbits

I ' m not sure if I ' m not sure what you mean.

Sp3000

If the language has vectors/arrays, a vector norm function would probably be more useful

Unless you want to reduce by the dyadic function like CJam always has to...

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

2:49 AM

@El'endiaStarman ssssh

@Quill :P

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ a friend of his from game dev

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ are you feeling better?

PhiNotPi

@Cyoce Sounds like markup. :)

Cyoce

@PhiNotPi mark(going in the wrong direction)

trichoplax

Wow the solutions are arriving fast

For anyone who doesn't know, I'm more likely to upvote solutions with an explanation — trichoplax 2 mins ago

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

^

PhiNotPi

@Cyoce On a more serious note, if its syntax is different then it's not markdown.

Cyoce

2:51 AM

@PhiNotPi k. It's the same idea

Helka Homba

@PhiNotPi idk, iirc SE and Github have different markdown flavors

PhiNotPi

I guess it depends on how different they are.

Cyoce

Except it's got like ~ for italics

PhiNotPi

One site I use has Textile as its markup language. It uses _ for italics and * for bold.

Meanbits

@trichoplax Mean bits is hot now. Congratulations :)

trichoplax

2:55 AM

Woo!

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fizzbuzz for tensorflow Since I was a new and naive user, I posted this question. In one day it got over 25 upvotes but was shut down for being too broad. Clearly there is community interest -- so by the suggestion of @DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I'll try it again in the sandbox. I'd really like to see ...

Meanbits

I'm trying to think of a good alternative to popcon to suggest for this ^. Any ideas?

It sounds very interesting, but I'm not sure how the scoring would work best.

Sp3000

@trichoplax :/ I know you had to pick one, but boy I keep running into approaches where it'd have been easier if 0 was defined to have bit length 0

trichoplax

@Sp3000 I expected that would be easier, but it's a small challenge already, so I felt it needed something to make it tricky...

Sp3000

Well I thought about it while it was in sandbox but didn't comment since it's an easy +1 or -1 fix

PhiNotPi

3:01 AM

@Sp3000 Don't you only have to add 1/N to the total?

Sp3000

But I'm getting a surprising number of solutions with similar byte counts

PhiNotPi

^^ ninja'd

Meanbits

^ seen in a Publix parking lot within the last hour

trichoplax

40 views: 5 answers - I'm pretty happy with that :)

Nathan Merrill

@Meanbits I don't think the challenge is a good fit for our site, unless you want it to be a code-golf. It currently is a "Implement this algorithm" sort of challenge, and unless you want to specify what machine learning is (and all of its details), then I'm not sure if it'll work well

Meanbits

3:04 AM

@NathanMerrill Yea, I know it has other problems, but I was hoping they could be resolved. My first order of business was "eww popcon (esp with a time limit)".

Nathan Merrill

that said, if you do specify what you define as machine learning, then I'd either do code-golf, or fastest-code

Sp3000

To me, the tensorflow challenge is like a steak in a Chinese restaurant. It's a really good steak and I'm sure people would love it, but it's kinda hard to fit it into the menu without turning heads [/awkwardanalogies]

Meanbits

The best steak at any restaurant in my mom's town is at a seafood place. I always thought that odd.

Meanbits

3:24 AM

o_O

4

A: How to get heat high enough for stir fry?

I have never tried it but when I googled wok burners (thinking to find a standalone high-output gas hob), I found this article about a wok ring called the "WokMon" on Serious Eats and had to post it here: A couple months ago I was approached by Glen Lee, an inventor who claimed to have an ing...

trichoplax

???!!!

Looks more like it belongs on Life Hacks...

Meanbits

Kids, don't try this at home.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

pls trying at home

Quill

3:48 AM

2228

Q: Proper use cases for Android UserManager.isUserAGoat()?

I was looking at the new APIs introduced in Android 4.2. While looking at the UserManager class I came across the following method: public boolean isUserAGoat() Used to determine whether the user making this call is subject to teleportations. Returns whether the user making this call...

java android usermanager

@Downgoat ^

xnor

4:06 AM

Discussion question: How would you design a language to make golfing in it as fun as possible?

Sp3000

Half-ass the "golfing" part so you don't need to bust out all the annoying things for the extra golfiness

Helka Homba

MACHINE DESTROYS EVERYTHING v.9

►

^ Somewhat terrifying

Quill

@xnor make the online editor tell you jokes for every x characters entered

My optimizer uses content-aware inpainting to fill in all the wasted whitespace in the code, repeating the process until it compiles.

new XKCD

Leaky Nun

look

where would the bounty go if i click nothing?

Downgoat

ಠ_ಠ, I can't be identified as a goat? This is discrimination android, :( — Downgoat Mar 4 at 2:24

Leaky Nun

4:19 AM

chat mini-challenge: golf your speech

Downgoat

@LeakyNun k

@trichoplax can you then eleven the message and replace "isn't evil" with "is evil too"

Sherlock9

4:32 AM

@Dennis Just got back in. Your message was at 5 am

New Meta Posts

0

Q: Should a JavaScript image-processing submission support CORS?

A clarification I'd like to have is whether JavaScript submissions for image-processing should support Cross-Origin Resource Sharing. Specifically, it requires setting the crossOrigin attribute of an Image to "". This seems like a frivolous expectation in the context of code-golf, which is why I...

discussion code-golf answers rules

Dennis

@Sherlock9 Timezones... I found a potential problem with my APL answer. The rows of the output are sorted by first occurrence, not by player number. For 21,14, the output is like follows. Note that 13 comes before 12; the last two rows are swapped.

 0  1 13 15 19
 1  2 12 16 18
 2  3 11 17  0
 3  4 10  0  0
 4  5  9  0  0
 5  6  8  0  0
 6  7  0  0  0
13 14 20  0  0
12 21  0  0  0

You can still tell clearly which player says what, since the first column contains the player number, but I don't know if that's acceptable.

Helka Homba

4:49 AM

@LeakyNun There's an auto-bounty thing I think but if no answers have a good enough score it's lost forever

Sherlock9

Barely. The players are still clearly marked, even if they aren't sorted. I suppose it will do, for now. Not sure what happens if any more problems come up though :D

Dennis

I'm fairly certain that is the last one.

Quill

@HelkaHomba at least 2 for 50% of bounty, >2 for 100% of bounty IIRC

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

http://i.imgur.com/HH0eYTl.gif

I thought that gif would get me starred, but I don't think it's ever going to load. ... ಠ_ಠ

Dennis

I've un-oneboxed it. That's a 85 MiB GIF...

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

5:02 AM

Holy crap.

... sorry.

orlp

holy crap I need to learn neural nets: boredpanda.com/inceptionism-neural-network-deep-dream-art/…

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Meta question: Can input and output be upside down? E.g, if the challenge was `generate the first n fibonacci numbers` and the output was

8
5
3
2
1
1

Would that be acceptable?

Sp3000

Not by default I'd hope, unless the question states specifically that the output can be in any order

Otherwise, it'd trivialise a lot of questions

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Well, it would make them easier, but would it really trivialize them?

RenderSettings

"Challenge: reverse a list of numbers"

Sp3000

5:14 AM

Well, here's my O(1) sorting algorithm: lambda L:L

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

But that doesn't actually do any sorting.

RenderSettings

Ah yes, bogosort without the recursion

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

So it's totally different.

orlp

github.com/jcjohnson/neural-style

Sp3000

Sorry, s/sorting/reversing/ (i.e. Render's comment)

orlp

5:16 AM

@Sp3000 that's intelligent design sort

dangermouse.net/esoteric/intelligentdesignsort.html

Ashwin Gupta

I need help

is the text on the buttons working

like staying within the buttons:

niwhsa9.github.io/8th-Grade-Exit-Interview

or no

on my display it does. But on some peoples it doesn't

strawpoll!

wait actually

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

@Sp3000 I still feel like that's a completely different matter. Obviously if the challenge was reversing a list, that wouldn't work.

But if the challenge is something totally different, and it's just more convenient to display it that way.

Ashwin Gupta

strawpoll.me/10305300

orlp

you guys know bogosort, right?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Si senor

orlp

5:20 AM

well, there's also bogobogosort

Sp3000

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ I get your point, but personally I think there's a lot of situations where being able to output in reverse can completely change what the golfiest solution is. Having trouble finding an explicit example though

orlp

it first bogosorts the first 2 elements, then the first 3, etc

at every point it checks whether the array is in order, and if not, it goes back to 2 elements

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

But is that necessarily a bad thing?

If it still produces correct output.

orlp

well

instead of n! complexity it now has 1!*2!*...*n! complexity

ah

that's the superfactorial

sf(n)

Sp3000

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ The only reason I'm kind of against things like this is because it raises the learning curve for new users. We've already got the fact that inputs can be reordered, functions can be unnamed, input can come in all sorts of ways and that way we score flags which people get wrong half the time.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

5:27 AM

Inputs can be reordered?

By default?

Helka Homba

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Not sure if there's an official meta post but I'd say yes

Sp3000

I dunno about default, but if you ever see a question with 3 inputs, chances are there's an answer which takes them in a different order from the example in the question

Anonymous

5:41 AM

@Dennis Would you mind pulling Actually?

Dennis

@Mego I actually don't. Pulled.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

You seriously did?

Bálint

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Was that a pun?

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Actually, yes -- it was.

Anonymous

@Dennis Thanks :)

wizzwizz4

5:55 AM

@LeakyNun Nobody knows!

@Meanbits Not again.

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Àñäj2jJxkñdj

wizzwizz4

@DrGreenEggsandHamDJ Erm...

Dr Green Eggs and Ham DJ

Yezzzz?

Fatalize

6:26 AM

@quartata It works for me?

a :-
get_char(X),
X \== end_of_file,
(X == 'a'; X == 'b'),
get_char(Y),
Y \== end_of_file,
Y == 'c'.

?- a.
|: bc

No line feed between b and c since get_char reads a single char

(but a line feed after c)

New Main Posts

6:57 AM

0

Q: Female and Male Equations

This question is probably harder than all of those "generate a sequence of number" tasks, because this requires TWO sequences working in unison. Really looking forward to the answers! In his book "Gödel, Escher and Bach", Douglas Hofstadter has a quite few sequences of numbers inside, all of th...

code-golf math

zyabin101

Hello

Katenkyo

@zyabin101 I was wondering why you weren't here ^^

New Main Posts

7:21 AM

-1

Q: Arduino upload problem

Cant upload anymore. Becourse Im writing to the seriell monitor? Possible to delete running program in Arduino Uno without upload? Fault when I try to upload even the basic program "Blink". Using Port : COM3 Using Programmer : arduino Overriding B...

stack

zyabin101

@Katenkyo For what? :3

That face when I get an off-topic flag helpful.

;D

Katenkyo

7:45 AM

@zyabin101 forn nothing, but you're just ALWAYS here ^^

Leaky Nun

7:55 AM

@wizzwizz4 What was that a reply to?

Sherlock9

wizz was saying that nobody knows where the bounty would go if you don't award the bounty. This despite several people having already explained what happens to a bounty that isn't awarded in the time limit -__-

zyabin101

I just /joined seven rooms.

Mars Ultor

8:11 AM

Why do I read popcon as popcorn D:

zyabin101

:P

Katenkyo

@MarsUltor same here, that's why I'm always Hungry when browsing this site...

zyabin101

Currently golfing Seriously numbers all by myself :}

Progress right now: 10518 bytes on the so called "teacher's paper", and 10518 on the so called "student's paper".

100% of the starting weight.

First golf: I can save single digits in one byte without needing a : literal.

If all is well, each number should be printed out twice... And... Success!

10514/10518 bytes.

99.96%

heh

VTCAKAVSMoACE

8:29 AM

Yayyyy

zyabin101

NOOOOO!

You obtained -tumbleweed D:

This is for question askers who are bad at asking questions :(

@VTCAKAVSMoACE Care to show the question?

VTCAKAVSMoACE

@zyabin101 Ouch.

0

Q: Permanently Decrypt non-CoreStorage Partition Encrypted with FileVault

I am asking this on the behalf of someone who did not want to sign up for the SE network. I will use first-person for simplicity. When I bought my computer, it came with FileVault enabled as default. After a few months of use, I decided to install Ubuntu on a separate partition on the machine, s...