The Nineteenth Byte

Alex A.

12:00 AM

@Doorknob \o/ What kind of things did you learn?

Did you learn that the word "Tatar" actually comes from the Mongolian word for "conquered"? :/

El'endia Starman

Man, that's quite the identity.

At least it gives you a legit reason to scream the name "Khan"!

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies Good to know, thanks :)

@El'endiaStarman hahaha :D

quartata

CJam should really get some sort of string compression.

Calvin's Hobbies

@AlexA. So tartar sauce means conquered sauce?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

On sourceforge? Pshhh

quartata

12:05 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ?

What's wrong with SourceForge?

Alex A.

@Calvin'sHobbies 1. No, 2. LOL, 3. Tatar != Tartar

quartata

^

Alex A.

@quartata SourceForge is garbageware

8

quartata

SourceForge is awesome

Alex A.

Some guy on the Internet disagrees with you

Calvin's Hobbies

12:07 AM

@AlexA. nuh uh -> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatars

> Nowadays Tatar is usually used to refer to the people, but Tartar is still almost always used for derived terms such as tartar sauce or steak tartare.

Alex A.

> From the beginning, the extra r was present in the Western forms, and according to the Oxford English Dictionary this was most likely due to an association with Tartarus

The extra r is just that: extra.

It shouldn't actually be there. My grandpa would be so pissed.

Maltysen

@AlexA. mind answering a math question of mine?

Alex A.

@Maltysen I do not mind answering a math question for you, but I cannot guarantee it will be a correct answer. :I

Calvin's Hobbies

What are the factors of 9876543210?

Maltysen

@AlexA. For solids of revolution, we calculate the volume of a disc with radius=y, and height=dx, but for surface area we use a disc with radius=y and height=*ds*. what gives?

Alex A.

12:14 AM

> 2 => 1
> 3 => 2
> 17 => 2
> 379721 => 1
> 5 => 1

That's prime => exponent

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen Convention, mostly. Probably has something to do with surface area or arc length, I've seen ds used for those.

Alex A.

@Maltysen What is s in this case?

Maltysen

arc length

Calvin's Hobbies

> Arc lengths are denoted by s, since the Latin word for length (or size) is spatium.

(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_length)

El'endia Starman

@AlexA., do you remember where you (or someone else) said something to the effect of "PPCG is primarily about code golf, but has other kinds of challenges." It was in a discussion regarding a potential name change.

Maltysen

12:16 AM

@AlexA. the way I understand it, using ds instead of dx makes the approximation more accurate before integrating, but for some reason don't use it for volumes

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman I feel like that has been said on multiple occasions. I can't recall where one particular instance might be if you're looking to revisit the text.

@Maltysen Approximation? What are you approximating?

Maltysen

@AlexA. the disk before integrating

it becomes not an approximation when we integrate

El'endia Starman

@AlexA. I have a Meta post drafted about possibly creating a new type of challenge that doesn't involve code. I want to have that quote to point out that even though our primary focus is code golf, we still have other kinds of challenges, like KotHs or what have you, so the mere fact that this kind of challenge doesn't technically involve code shouldn't be an automatic off-topic flag.

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman Challenges that don't require code are off topic.

quartata

^

El'endia Starman

12:20 AM

But what I'm thinking of is like code.

Pseudocode golf?

Pseudocode Golf

wow

bird'd

Ninja'd

12:20 AM

@El'endiaStarman its not convention. ds = sqrt(1+f') dx

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

sumarid

El'endia Starman

3 hours ago, by El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Using any mix of Life-like rules, make a wire with a capacitor, such that when a signal comes in, it stores it and releases it only when another signal comes in.

Eridan

bir'd

Quill

how do you golf pseudocode

Alex A.

@Maltysen I don't remember this stuff at all so I'm going to revisit some formulas and stuff to try to refresh my memory.

El'endia Starman

12:21 AM

I feel like this kind of challenge involves the same kind of problem-solving as code-golf.

Quill

ifnumbermodulo5is0printfizz

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen Oh, well, okay then.

Maltysen

@AlexA. relevant links:

Solid of revolution

In mathematics, engineering, and manufacturing, a solid of revolution is a solid figure obtained by rotating a plane curve around some straight line (the axis) that lies on the same plane. Assuming that the curve does not cross the axis, the solid's volume is equal to the length of the circle described by the figure's centroid multiplied by the figure's area (Pappus's second centroid Theorem). A representative disk is a three-dimensional volume element of a solid of revolution. The element is created by rotating a line segment (of length w) around some axis (located r units away), so that a...

Surface of revolution

A surface of revolution is a surface in Euclidean space created by rotating a curve (the generatrix) around an axis of rotation. Examples of surfaces of revolution generated by a straight line are cylindrical and conical surfaces depending on whether or not the line is parallel to the axis. A circle that is rotated about any diameter generates a sphere of which it is then a great circle, and if the circle is rotated about an axis that does not intersect the center of a circle, then it generates a torus which does not intersect itself (a ring torus). == PropertiesEdit == The sections of the surface...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@El'endiaStarman How do you make a wire turn?

El'endia Starman

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ It's in the Sandbox post I linked to you some time ago.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:23 AM

Oh, d'oh.

>_< brain fart

quartata

@El'endiaStarman Can you tell us more?

El'endia Starman

@quartata That's kinda the point of this Meta post I've got waiting to be posted. :P

quartata

Is it like logic circuits or a toy language?

I know, but if you give us a few details we can tell you if you should bother with the post.

Zgarb

@Maltysen I have to go now, but I think I can explain this to you at some point. Remind me later.

Maltysen

@Zgarb k

Eridan

12:26 AM

@Maltysen Which part of that needs explaining for you? I can probably help

Maltysen

13 mins ago, by Maltysen

@AlexA. For solids of revolution, we calculate the volume of a disc with radius=y, and height=dx, but for surface area we use a disc with radius=y and height=*ds*. what gives?

El'endia Starman

> What's different about this challenge is that it doesn't involve code. I still think it shares a lot of similarities with coding challenges, though. For one, there is an "algorithm" in that someone attempting this challenge has to figure out how to properly arrange cells, what Life-like rules should be used, that sort of thing. Plus, there's potential for golfing too, with regards to minimizing the area, dimensions, number of rules, and so forth.

@quartata @AlexA.: ^

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Like the tetris in goL question

El'endia Starman

Conway's Game of Life is at least technically a programming language.

It's Turing complete.

Eridan

@Maltysen Depending on which axis you're using, ds is either equal to sqrt(1+(dy/dx)^2)dx or sqrt(1+(dx/dy)^2)dy

Maltysen

12:29 AM

@Eridan yes, but why do we use dx for volumes?

Eridan

Because you don't need shorthand for dx

Maltysen

@Eridan i'm talking conceptually

why do we need to do a disk of height ds for SA but a disk with height dx for volume

Eridan

@Maltysen You use dx because the bases of your tiny pieces being rotated are parallel to the x axis. You use ds as shorthand because the base of your tiny piece is part of a not-necessarily horizontal line

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman I think there could be room for this, but it would probably depend on the exact challenge. We've done codeless challenges before, and while it's been a long time, if done right I think it could work. Sandbox it and find out ;)

15

Q: Do all challenges have to be answered with code?

We have a tag fastest-algorithm and we've had it for a while now. Submissions are scored based on the time complexity of the algorithm. This means that the actual implementation has no effect on the score whatsoever (except if, say, actual runtime is used as a tiebreaker). In particular, we had ...

Maltysen

@Eridan why are the volume disks parallel. why aren't they the same disks both times?

Eridan

12:35 AM

With volume you're rotating a region, whereas with surface area you're rotating a line segment

Maltysen

@Eridan ahhh that makes sense

Eridan

It's easier to explain with a diagram but ASCII art in T19B is hard

Maltysen

and we're saying that the difference in dx and ds is negligible when compared to a big region?

but it matters against the line?

Eridan

dx and ds are completely different quantities; dx is used to measure the amount of 3D space, while ds is used to measure the amount of 2D space

Alex A.

@El'endiaStarman I agree with everything that Geobits said. I didn't see the resolution of Martin's meta thing though until just now. I find that very disappointing. :(

New Main Posts

12:39 AM

0

Q: Word or near-word?

Write a program or function that given a string (or your language's equivalent), determine if the string is a word, or not, and output a truthy or falsy value. (This is not a duplicate of Is this even a word? The incorrect words are generated in a very different way that I believe makes this a c...

code-golf string random word

Maltysen

@Eridan but wait

that still doesn't make sense

quartata

Do moderators have a way of completely nuking a post (so not even 2k/10k rep users can see it)?

Just curious.

I'm sure you can't tell me without killing me though

Maltysen

the volume disk if using dx will have a height equal to the distance traveled on the x axis

Quill

yes

Eridan

@quartata They can stealth ping - oh wait

Quill

12:41 AM

they can delete stuff and remove the history, but totally nuking something you have to ping a CM for, IIRC

quartata

Oh.

Maltysen

@Eridan but the disk's outside will be slightly slanted with length ds

quartata

k

That's kinda what I figured.

Eridan

@Maltysen Are you rotating about the x or y axis?

Maltysen

x

lets take a sphere as example

cosketch.com/Rooms/gplodaj

Eridan

12:43 AM

integral from -k to k of pi*(sqrt(k^2-x^2))^2

Geobits

Don't get me wrong; I don't like grits at all. Why anyone would eat them is beyond me. But even I wouldn't go so far as to reject the word itself :P — Geobits 28 secs ago

Alex A.

lel

Grits can be tasty if prepared well. But 99.99% of the time they're vile.

Geobits

I make it a point to stop eating bad things before I've found that one-in-ten-thousand that's edible :P

New Main Posts

0

Q: Convert to ASCII Agrippa Numbers

Challenge Given a natural number, output it in the ASCII form of Agrippa's number system. Description I like odd alphabets and numeral systems. My favorite numeral system is one given by Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa. It gives a succinct way to write numbers in the range [0,9999], where single di...

code-golf ascii-art kolmogorov-complexity

Alex A.

I was lucky enough to have had decent grits the first time I tried them. Every subsequent ingestion of grits has resulted in sorrow.

feersum

12:49 AM

Sounds like bad luck to me.

Now you're doomed to a lifelong fruitless search for edible grits.

Geobits

Maybe the first time your tastes buds were so shocked they just gave random output.

4

> Ah, a new flav-BUFFER OVERFLOW

Sp3000

@MartinBüttner Hm... I'd still be up for giving Ell a bounty, but if you'd rather not then I wouldn't mind giving Peter one instead

Geobits

Full disclosure: I only found grits in that list because I was looking for funny near-words to use in a joke.

Alex A.

@Geobits I think "flavor" is kind of a strong word when referring to grits. :P

Geobits

Fair point. Unless "mush" is a flavor.

Uh oh, Doorknob is here. Them Texans like their grits :P

Doorknob

12:58 AM

I have never eaten grits

Geobits

Smart.

Doorknob

@AlexA. No, but we did learn about how they fought with the Mongols and everything. It was only about a 5-minute portion of the video we watched, but it immediately reminded me of you :P

Alex A.

@Doorknob Fought, perhaps rather fruitlessly though. :|

Doorknob

@quartata Moderators cannot hard delete post

but a moderator can redact a revision with the approval of another mod

Alex A.

@Quill Totally nuking something completely isn't possible IIRC.

Quill

1:03 AM

@AlexA. I would wager that for a CM it isn't

feel weird to think there are those with more powers than you lot? ;p

Alex A.

I thought I remembered a dev telling me that they don't.

Maltysen

@AlexA. what if I used a literal nuke? ;P

Alex A.

Then we'd have bigger problems than deleted posts.

Doorknob

Hard deletion is possible by certain people who work at SE

Alex A.

Maybe it was that they don't do it, not that they can't do it.

Idk. That was a while ago.

Quill

1:05 AM

Yeah, that's probably it

Alex A.

When it comes to how things work on the SE network, I'll believe basically anything Doorknob says.

He could say that the servers run on unicorn farts and I'd believe it.

Doorknob

You're implying that they don't?

Quill

@AlexA. Because Doorknob is a SE fanatic ;p

Alex A.

@Doorknob That's why I said I'd believe it if you told me. You'd know better than I would. :P

@Quill I consider myself one as well, but he's been a user on the network longer than I have.

Little known fact: Doorknob is the world's leading expert on unicorn flatulence.

Doorknob

If you have a really specific question, Normal probably has it memorized already. :P Like Roomba-criteria-rules, which I still have to look up regularly.

Geobits

1:08 AM

I don't know whether to laugh or shake my head at this: jebbush.com

Alex A.

wtaf

Missed opportunity to link it to some propaganda.

Cyoce

Holy shit I just had my best ever TF2 game

28-1

Doorknob

Probably because you were clearly sockpuppeting with the guy named "Sock" :P

Eridan

deeznuts

Quill

@Cyoce >playing as a spy

Alex A.

1:09 AM

@Doorknob That's actually Conor O'Brien XD

Doorknob

... wait, it is?

Alex A.

Yes

Quill

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 49 secs ago, by Frank

Ayy doorknob

Alex A.

Note the small caps

Quill

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 37 secs ago, by Frank

outwits me in chess every time

Cyoce

1:10 AM

@Quill This is mannpower (grappling hooks), so I prefer to call it "SPYderman"

Geobits

Conspiracy to get screenshot confirmed.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

,good night ^_^

@Cyoce the spawncamping was real.

Quill

later @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ

Sp3000

@Geobits You missed supermax? D:

Geobits

I guess so :(

I was going to stop at popsiest at first, because, well, popsiest.

Sp3000

1:16 AM

There's also babookas, the war weapon that shoots reading materials

Geobits

I could imagine that. "We shall conquer them by slowly raising their literacy and general education levels, so that in a generation's time neither side will see a point in continuing the conflict! Hoorah!"

Downgoat

Can I advertise my Sandbox Viewer on Meta now that it's finished?

Anonymous

@Downgoat The userscript is borked again

Downgoat

@Mego what, really?

Anonymous

Yeah, it's not working in Chrome with Tampermonkey

Alex A.

1:22 AM

Someone must have reporpoised it.

Downgoat

@Mego does the console say anything?

Quill

what version is it?

Anonymous

Uncaught SyntaxError: Unexpected token !c @ VM397:41(anonymous function) @ VM409:1n @ VM397:72ja @ VM397:41ma @ VM397:83b @ VM397:83

Anonymous

Err that didn't copy well

Quill

that's what you get for writing your code like that

Downgoat

1:24 AM

@Mego oh, that's not my fault :D

I'll fix it though

New Meta Posts

-1

Q: Why not custom character maps for handicaps?

It seems that one of the biggest advantages of golfing languages is their one byte functions. Why not give non-golfing languages their own character maps, with one-character functions? Or (more or less) equivalently, count standard functions in non-golfing languages as (1/8) * Log2[(Number of ...

discussion policy scoring

Anonymous

gist.github.com/Mego/339b13b9c6ff539a48d5

Anonymous

@AlexA. 3 minutes on the dupehammer, noice

Downgoat

@Mego should be fixed

Alex A.

@Mego I thought it was 2 minutes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Anonymous

1:27 AM

@AlexA. 6 mins ago on post, 3 mins ago on close

Doorknob

2 minutes 41 seconds

Alex A.

◊_◊

Downgoat

@Mego nope, now it's fixed

Doorknob

> 4. What is the yam? How did it work?

tempted to answer "it will have been working by putting it in your mouth"

Alex A.

Do it

Well, except fix your verb tense first

Anonymous

1:30 AM

@Downgoat Much better

Doorknob

@AlexA. better?

Alex A.

Yes, but not in the way I expected.

Doorknob

Dropped down to 10.4 q/day, but still pretty good

Alex A.

> pretty good

For us I'd say it's damn good.

Anonymous

@Doorknob Excuse you, that's excellent

Alex A.

1:32 AM

Dam good, even.

Dam Son good. The almighty Dam Son has blessed us with this most precious gift of 10 q/day.

My reputation is a Dennis number

Doorknob

[userscript-request] Do that to all Dennis numbers found on the page

4

Downgoat

18 mins ago, by Downgoat

Can I advertise my Sandbox Viewer on Meta now that it's finished?

^ Can I have response?

Geobits

@Doorknob Ooh, if that's going to happen we need more [User] Numbers besides Dennis :)

Quill

that's would be a seriously messed up regex

Alex A.

@Downgoat Yams

That is your response

Doorknob

1:39 AM

@Geobits I made Calvin numbers but they're complicated-ish

Downgoat

@AlexA. yams == sweet potatoes, right?

Geobits

trueish

Alex A.

@Downgoat Personally I'm not a fan of the use of a meta question to advertise something since it isn't really a question and it isn't really about the site. It has been used for advertising like that, such as for Phi's KOTH server, but that's more directly related.

Quill

can a phrase with even characters be a palindrome?

Doorknob

yessey

Geobits

1:41 AM

IMO a sandbox viewer would be very site-related.

Alex A.

@Downgoat yams ⊂ sweet potatoes

Downgoat

@AlexA. ok

Alex A.

@Geobits It's related to the site but it's not really about the site. I honestly don't think Phi's KOTH server post is on topic for meta, but that's mostly an aside.

@Downgoat You could put it on StackApps.

Quill

imgur.com/gallery/vxQGz

Geobits

I'd have to fail them altogether for skipping the Doc Holliday question, extra credit or not.

Who chooses Full House over Tombstone?

Anonymous

1:44 AM

I've never seen Tombstone

Quill

Me either vvv same

Alex A.

I've never seen either

Doorknob

^

Anonymous

My sister used to watch Full House because she was enamoured with JTT

Geobits

You people are all... I don't even know what to say here >_<

PhiNotPi

1:45 AM

I think site-related tools should be on-topic for meta. A second famous example is the leaderboard snippet.

2

Anonymous

That was the explanation she gave years later, despite JTT not being on Full House

Geobits

Yea... that was Home Improvement >_>

Anonymous

My sister is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier

Thomas Kwa

Do we count languages with a transpiler to an implemented language as implemented?

Alex A.

Yeah. How would that be any different from an interpreter or compiler or whatever?

Thomas Kwa

1:50 AM

Okay

Anonymous

Yep, see the multitudes of JS-transpiled languages

Thomas Kwa

What if the interpreter for the language it transpiles in isn't included in the code?

Anonymous

Why would that matter?

Thomas Kwa

If I define a language, "Pyþ", to be Bubblegum piped into Pyth, is it valid?

Anonymous

Oh probably not

ETHproductions

1:53 AM

That would not be well-recieved anyways

Thomas Kwa

So I'd actually need to fork Pyth and add the transpiling into the parser.

Anonymous

What do you mean by piped? Like bubblegum prog.gum | pyth?

Downgoat

@ThomasKwa I guess, but if I saw that language I'd probably downvote because it's not interesting

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Plotting Dynamical Systems in ASCII code-golf Input: A Function to and from the real plane (henceforth R2) , call it F A point in R2 that is to be the center of a disk, call it c A radius, call it r An integer representing the number of iterations to be performed, call it n. Output: You a...

Thomas Kwa

I'm thinking of writing a Markov compressor for Pyth.

@Mego Um

I don't know what that means; I don't know how to use a command line.

Anonymous

1:57 AM

You take the output of the bubblegum side and use it as input for the pyth side

Thomas Kwa

As source code

Anonymous

Yeah

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