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8:00 PM
I wish there was a feature that would let you add "unfoldable" text blocks, such that only the interested ones who actually want to read it can open it.
 
I think a significant issue is that most people are familiar with the ring of polynomials R[X]....just not by that name.
If you want it to be more accessible to a greater population, you'll have to explain this.
 
What if I wrote the set of polynomials R[X]
Or what If I just omit the whole introduction?
You don't really need to read it in order to understand what the challenge is about
 
Just remove it
Reading it it just feels like mathematical wankery
 
translate: wankery
(from Fatalize): error 404 translation not found
 
Noun: wankery ‎(uncountable)
  1. (Britain, slang, vulgar) Unnecessary or pretentious noodling (messing around).
  2. 2002, Vladimir Bogdanov, Chris Woodstra, Stephen Thomas Erlewine, All Music Guide to Rock
  3. The core band, meanwhile, had clearly honed their chops well on stage; Ashton's lead guitar work avoids both wankery and simplicity...
  4. 2003, Marshall Moore, The Concrete Sky
  5. Their visas entailed bribes and a certain amount of bureaucratic wankery, but were approved quickly enough.
(4 more not shown…)
 
8:04 PM
> Unnecessary or pretentious noodling
^ I like that=)
 
@Fatalize Great. Define British slang with more British slang.
 
Ok, I see.
 
@El'endiaStarman Not my fault if the brits don't know how to define things properly!
 
TIL A0 is 999949 cm²
I thought it was exactly 1 m²
 
@betseg O_O i thought so too!
@betseg oh because of rounding to mm
 
8:09 PM
841×1189 mm
 
Oops I wrote cm² I meant mm²
Go home WolframAlpha, you're drunk. (Look at top and bottom)
 
does anyone know a markdown to html converter?
 
what language?
 
8:15 PM
Wait that's HTML -> MD
 
There are hundreds.
 
Write MD on SE, then look at the source code /s
 
What MD flavor are you using?
 
@flawr The point of Markdown is that it transpiles to HTML. So any Markdown renderer
Including the original Markdown itself
 
8:16 PM
Here's a generic online one: dillinger.io
 
I want to add some text as a JS/HTML snippet, but I've written it in markdown
 
@betseg you people with A<n> paper
we have measurements in the name of our paper
 
You can use dillinger.io to export as HTML instead of styled HTML so you can paste it into existing HTML.
 
How do I force Github to recognize something as a particular language again?
It thinks Cython is regular Python
(despite the different extension)
 
@quartata ````<lang>`
 
8:18 PM
Kidnap its family
 
@El'endiaStarman wat i call mod abuse
 
@mınxomaτ ?
 
@mınxomaτ thanks, too bad it doesn't load here =/
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Like that's ever stopped us before.
 
........ good point
 
8:18 PM
@quartata Three backticks to open a codeblock, followed by the language name.
 
pushd and popd are like best things ever... why has it taken me this long to figure these out ಠ_ಠ
 
@mınxomaτ I meant the Github breakdown not in Markdown
 
@quartata You don't.
 
Found another solution: I just used the source HTML that was generated by SE
 
8:20 PM
5 mins ago, by betseg
Write MD on SE, then look at the source code /s
@betseg
 
cheddar> String::IO.exec("git status")
"On branch feature-io
Changes not staged for commit:
  (use \"git add <file>...\" to update what will be committed)
  (use \"git checkout -- <file>...\" to discard changes in working directory)

	modified:   src/stdlib/ns/IO.es6

Untracked files:
  (use \"git add <file>...\" to include in what will be committed)

	src/stdlib/ns/IO/exec.es6
	src/stdlib/ns/IO/rm.es6
	src/stdlib/ns/IO/rmdir.es6

no changes added to commit (use \"git add\" and/or \"git commit -a\")
:D I did a thing
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ my joke came true then?
 
Ok now I moved the whole unnecessary intro into a snippet, but now I definitely need another title, suggestions?
 
You can't run snippets on mobile :'(
 
8:26 PM
@betseg Get the desktop version of the site and you can...
 
@TuxCopter added while loop to cheddar
 
See you tomorrow good night
 
@quartata huh?
@quartata yeah that's some wizardry there
 
8:33 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

user2428118Validate Random Die Tippers code-golf Almost six years ago, fellow PPCG member steenslag posted the following challenge: In a standard dice (die) the numbers are arranged so that opposite faces add to seven. Write the shortest possible program in your preferred language which outputs a ...

 
@mınxomaτ *bonk*
 
@ConorO'Brien Huh what?
I meant 4-trains and up
Although gerunds were worse
 
oh
as in, `?
(for gerunds)
CMC: obfuscated code that takes n and doubles it
 
@ConorO'Brien Minkolang: 2*. Wait shoot, I failed didn't I.
 
@El'endiaStarman yup :P
 
8:42 PM
@Dennis Thanks :)
 
@ConorO'Brien How's your blog doing?
 
@ConorO'Brien
 
@flawr poorly, finals are right around the corner
 
@El'endiaStarman You can use layers and travel through time to make it slightly more obfuscated :)
 
Oh, just found your newest post=)
 
8:46 PM
Windows 10 Wi-Fi "App"let: "Cannot connect to network" [Close] ... ... "Connected"
 
which blog are you talking about, again?
 
Runtime Error: Commit has no matching constructor for `Commit { String, Class, Class, Class }`
Available constructors are:
  Commit { String, String, String, String }
:O Cheddar class erroring actually works!
 
@Downgoat Do you have overloading?
Overloading as a high-level concept is great!
 
function/constructor overloading?
I do have cosntructor overloading
 
Yaaaay! :-)
:+1:
 
8:51 PM
 
ah that one
 
Honestly I'm quite surprised at the lack of bugs in cheddar
 
I think I have one in storage, I should post that
@Downgoat did you fix all the bugs I mentioned in the cheddar room
 
Yeah
BF program works
I'm writing a changelog generator using git log in cheddar rn
 
8:53 PM
So far cheddar is around 1/2 size of python script and 100x more readable
 
probably 3x as slow tho
 
@ConorO'Brien tbh it's actually decently fast
 
oh cooL!
 
startup time is really only slow part about cheddar
I can fix that with the embedded v8 stuff I'm working on tho
hopefully once Winter Break starts I'll finish that
 
8:56 PM
@Downgoat You mean Winter Bash?
 
no
 
Yay, a Great Answer badge :)
 
@mınxomaτ :D congrats!
 
Huh, I just noticed the LaTeX service I used screwed up the formulae. Eh, I'll fix that later.
 
9:19 PM
Looks like Winterbash starts in like 2 hours
Too lazy to get any hats unfortunately
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Conor O'BrienIncremental Quine quine code-golf Your task is to write a program or function that outputs the first character of its source code, then the second, then the third... each time it is run. For example, if your program was foo in language bar in file baz.bar, then you should get output similar to...

 
9:33 PM
@Fatalize I removed it now, and did some rewording, do you think it is better now?
 
@flawr That's much clearer and to the point
 
-1
Q: Straight Chain Alk*nes without Order

Zachary TThis is much like my earlier challenge, except, this time, order doesn't matter. I can't find an OEIS sequence this time. A straight-chain alk*ne is defined as a sequence of carbon atoms connected by single (alkane), double (alkene), or triple bonds (alkyne), (implicit hydrogens are used.) Carbo...

 
@mınxomaτ have you seen the Pixyll theme for markdown? It looks great and is readable.
Thought it might be of use to you.
 
Some code...
 
9:39 PM
> line anchors
 
@ConorO'Brien Line anchors?
 
I'm pretty sure those are the line numbers, unless I'm mistaken
 
0
Q: Let's play tennis

DopappI suddenly really want to play tennis, but alas I do not have a court! Surprise! This is where you come in. You have to print a tennis court for me, but you have to do it in the fewest bytes possible because of confidential reasons. Tennis court --------- | | --------- | | | xxxxxx...

 
@Fatalize thanks for the suggestion to remove the crap=)
I think I'm gonna delete the snippet too, it doesn't make much sense anymore
 
9:57 PM
Yeah, I don't mind if the intro/background is absent.
 
Incidentally, @flawr, this Clickspring guy would make an excellent narrator for How It's Made videos. :P
His videos are so similar in a way.
 
Totally a normal xkcd comic.
 
@ConorO'Brien question: is there a golfier alternative to Math.ceil(n) it only needs to work for positive numbers.
 
@Downgoat n=>-(~n)|0 I think works
 
10:06 PM
that always rounds up one number however :(
e.g. 1 => 2
 
^ this has less obvious doctored text
 
@Downgoat best I could find is -~e-(e==~~e) which is the same length as Math.ceil(e) and uses e more times
 
hm ok :/
I think e+0.5|0 will work for my case since I'm dividing integers by two
 
are you trying to do ceil div by 2?
 
10:15 PM
@El'endiaStarman can you edit the first fake xkcd post into the url of the second one? The doctoring is much less obvious. (as a chat mod)
 
@Downgoat e+.5|0
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC I can. I don't think I will.
 
It's fairly obvious that it was doctored simply because xkcd would never mention TNB. :P
(Plus, I recognized the general comic.)
 
yes, but it's funnier if you can't see it right away from the color of the text; surprise makes for good jokes
edits made: 100% black to 93% black, less overlap
@El'endiaStarman
 
10:26 PM
:OOO Cheddar changelog generator works \o/ \o/ \o/
I hereby declare, at this moment, cheddar as being >= python
 
Mmm, herbs.
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
What about third-party libs?
 
You can use cheddars cheddar.interface for that
 
@Downgoat Can you use libs from js or python?
 
10:29 PM
does it support outgolfing jelly
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yes
both
@ConorO'Brien no, but python can't do that either
 
@Downgoat darn
 
you can always write a language to outgolf jelly in cheddar however
I've also finished string docs
 
@Downgoat how easy it is to use
 
let's face it my language is superior :P
 
10:31 PM
Now you have to rewrite the whole stdlib since you didn't do generators first
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC too easy
@quartata wat no
 
@Downgoat example?
 
I'm using JS generator behind the scenes
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC example of what?
Hello World is polyglot with python2
 
and py3
print("Hello, World!")
 
@Downgoat which in turn means you're using regenerator? gross and slow
but that's not the point
 
10:33 PM
@Downgoat example of using python/js libs?
 
@El'endiaStarman oh yeah how's pytek doing?
 
you might as well not have generators if the stdlib functions don't use them
 
@quartata no?
either way, it's all abstracted. All a generator needs to do is specify hook property of CheddarExec#exec to run
 
Can I use Cheddar on the web?
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yes on TIO but interfacing is disabled on TIO for security reasons. You can download tho
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC lemme make
cheddar> cheddar.internal(cheddar.uid).require('child_process').execSync.c("echo hi")
hi
 
10:36 PM
@Downgoat I mean like for front-end web development
 
oh
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC kinda sorta
 
for this is it uniform to shuffle an array until it is a derangement?
 
You can write webserver in cheddar
I'm planning to add front-end dev ability tho
wait
you can rn
 
@ConorO'Brien As long as the shuffle is uniform, it should be.
 
just browserify/webpack cheddar-lang and pre-compile your cheddar using cheddar myfile.cheddar -o res.cdr
 
10:39 PM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Something we're hoping to do with Pytek:
in Pytek, Oct 18 at 0:39, by quartata
@frontend
func:foo() {
  \alert("Retrieving something");
  \return(\div[style="some css](\backend()))
}

@backend
func:backend() {
  \return("2 + 2 = 4");
}
 
@ConorO'Brien question: how to create array in JS without operator or array literal
 
That's why I really want to make transpiling as easy to implement as possible; ideally we would compile the backend functions to a shared object and the frontend to JS
 
@Geobits cool, thanks
@Downgoat new Array(....) where ... is more than one element
 
+1 good idea
 
I want a language that compiles to fast JS, has classes and objects, is lightweight, and is python-ish. And has support for js libs
 
10:41 PM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Give us Pytek devs 6-8 months. :P
 
Although we have structs really
 
@El'endiaStarman Wait, really? Like compile to good JS in the browser
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC (Hint: I'm making a reference to "6-8 weeks".)
 
@El'endiaStarman Oh you're now working on it??
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Yes. And C++. And basically anything with a little code.
 
10:42 PM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC coffeescript :(
 
@flawr No, I'm currently watching Clockspring videos. :P
 
@Downgoat I tried that, it's just js with lambdas and stuff
 
but it has ugly python-like significant whitespace
it also has classes
idk
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC If I make cheddar compile to uber-fast JS will you use it :3
 
@Downgoat And lightweight, yes. [+ dom access similar to js] [+ some way to transpile JS to Cheddar]
 
@El'endiaStarman But do you already have some kind of up to date documentation?
 
10:44 PM
brython would work but you need to include brython.js, which is huge
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Actually have you heard of Dart?
It has really nice syntax
 
Is it verbose like java?
 
@flawr At the moment, nothing beyond the syntax spec.
 
What I really need is jstodart.
Otherwise migration is hard.
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC nope
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC you can use them together
 
10:54 PM
@Downgoat Too many context switches for my head.
 
I think in clarity it's clear which wins (hint: it's a cheese)
 
Mmm, snek meat cheese
 
goat eat snek's meat >:D
 
I'm going to make the python one look nicer then compare
 
:/ I'll prettyify cheddar one too in that case
 
11:03 PM
That way there's no conflict of interest, and a pythonista can write the python code while a cheddarista can write the cheddar code
 
Yeah I have to agree, that Python is not a good comparison
 
@Downgoat How is cheddar typed?
 
optionally
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC dynamic strong duck
 
@quartata dynamic strong goat
 
11:05 PM
For comparison Java is static strong nominative and JavaScript is dynamic weak nominative
 
python is dynamically strongly optionally duck
 
Python is also dynamic strong duck
Pytek is gradual strong structural (at least that's the plan)
 
MyPy is a python implementation that aims to do type checking for python with low overhead, optional types
def fib(n):
    a, b = 0, 1
    while a < n:
        yield a
        a, b = b, a+b
vs.
def fib(n: int) -> Iterator[int]:
    a, b = 0, 1
    while a < n:
        yield a
        a, b = b, a+b
 
I mean, if you're using type annotations you might as well use Cython
 
the syntax is supported in regular python
@quartata cython is much stricter, and there's less duck
the current type syntax can't make your program faster because subclassing and duck typing - this is why java has final
final is inherently un-OOP, but makes for good performance
 
11:10 PM
Who said final is inherently un-OOP?
 
^ how does using constants make your code not true OO
 
You can extend ANY type (except for bool) in Python.
 
I wouldn't describe Python as being a pinnacle of purity in any paradigm
 
s/purity in any paradigm/anything/
 
@Downgoat I'm trying to clean this Python up but man
 
11:14 PM
:/
 
I'm attempting too
 
what's so bad
 
It's unreadable
 
I mean it's pretty simple
 
@Downgoat It's horrid. You have no idea
return list(map(Commit, *[iter(rawdata)] * ITEMS_PER_COMMIT))
 
11:15 PM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC This is python's fault
@quartata Hey, this is not me. I asked here how to chunk and that's the response I got
 
@Downgoat They obviously assumed you were golfing
 
you cannot apply js paradigms to python and expect good results
 
Dec 3 at 22:48, by Sp3000
In that case, list(map(MyNamedTuple,*[iter(L)]*n))
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC this is python paradigm
Python is inheritly unreadable
 
are you joking
 
you can add as many Apython Cpython foopy barpy goatpy as you want but still
 
11:16 PM
Tell you what I'll at minimum show you how to do a proper chunk
 
either way. cheddar has .chunk(n) so it wins there
@TuxCopter opls. it's hyperbole
 
I don't see where you do the argument handling in the Cheddar version
 
Yeah, I only added in new version
I do have to say argparse is nice
 
welp Titanic made me cry
 
:'(/10 very sad movie
 
11:21 PM
even used map
 
huh?
:( Github don't syntax highlight cheddar
Question: does python have like namespace function
 
Namespaces in Python? lolno
 
@TuxCopter "Namespaces are great! Let's have more of those." - zen of python
what's iter(rawdata) supposed to do
"subprocess.CalledProcessError: Command '['git', 'for-each-ref', '--sort=taggerdate', '--format', '%(tag)']' returned non-zero exit status 128" ?
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC chunk
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC run in cloned cheddat dir
 
@Downgoat Lists are already iterables.
I can't reformat this. Just too ugly
 
11:32 PM
xnor gave me that section ಠ_ಠ
 
There, have your slightly better python code:
#!/usr/bin/env python
# Cheddar changelog generator
# (c) cheddar-lang 2016-
#
# Outputs data including name, hash, email & message


from subprocess import check_output
from collections import namedtuple, defaultdict
import re
import sys
import argparse

ITEM_LENGTH = 80
INDENT = ' - '
ITEMS_PER_COMMIT = 4

# Handle process arguments
parser = argparse.ArgumentParser()
parser.add_argument('logfile', help='file to write to, default stdout', nargs='?', type=argparse.FileType('w+'),
                    default=sys.stdout)
 
it look the same?
 
@Downgoat It's like feeding asm.js into a js prettifier and expecting really good js code
 
wat
no
that was the best chunk function I got so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
@Downgoat You can't feed it through a woodchipper and give it to a lumberjack and tell them "Here, tweak my chair".
 
11:41 PM
The chunk function is like the only unreadable thing
 
The entire structure is bad
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC it's the structure python promotes
 
It's way too dense too
 
python promotes being extremely conservative with syntax
python is like glorified shell script
 
@Downgoat Apparently reddit was built in glorified shell script
 
11:43 PM
What do you mean by conservative? What about significant whitespace, e.g., is conservative?
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC yes
 
quick poll: let's say + composes two functions f and g. should f g+ give f(g(x)) or g(f(x))?
 
@Dennis conservative in this context means pretty much the least as possible. I see python code like this too often:
 
whitespace!
 
goat=input("Name? ")
if goat=="":
  print "Please enter name"
else:
  thing=input("Email? ")
The idea of optional/implicit everything (implicit variables particularity) is bad idea
 
11:47 PM
@Downgoat what's implicit in that?
@Downgoat python has classes...
 
what does that prove?
 
@Downgoat Nothing. What's implicit in that?
 
implicit in what?
 
'night
 
@Downgoat Implicit everything; what's bad about it
 
11:51 PM
@TuxCopter g'night .o/
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC it promotes the idea of just mashing together code however until it works
and that's exactly what python code looks like
 
@Downgoat No it doesn't... give me a reason
 
see above example
 
You should probably make your own input function, or an entire class
 
99% of Python coders don't even know that code design is a thing that should actually be considered as a result
 
see this I wrote for ascii twin tin bots github.com/ASCII-Art-Club/ASCII-Twin-Tin-Bots/blob/master/…
@Downgoat That was the goal of python; you are just saying random unsourced facts
 
11:55 PM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC "zen of python" if that's what you're referencing is, I'm sure one sarcastic comment
> explicit is better than implicit
 
@Downgoat Your Cheddar one can be translated almost word for word into Python and look more or less the same. I'm just too lazy to do it
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC please, python can't even OO
Class : OO :: Function : Functional
 
i.e the most defining feature?
 
I'm saying functions don't make a language functional, and using the weird object that classes are in python doesn't make it OO
 
There is a difference between subroutine and function
Functions do make a language functional. Functions usually imply purity
Not sure what's wrong with Python classes. Not have access modifiers isn't anything different from JS
 
11:59 PM
Justifying something using JS isn't a very strong justification :P
 

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