The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

6:00 PM

@seequ explicit verbs can be very readable

@Mego I suppose the example in the vocabulary is good enough: jsoftware.com/help/dictionary/d622.htm

As you can see at applies */ (product) over every item as opposed to rank 1

You can think of rank as how deep J vectorizes the operation

seequ

Well, f@:g passes the entire result as is from g to f, while f@g lowers the rank by one

e.g. passes every element of a list separately

Anonymous

Ah

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Array Periods The period of an array is the length of the smallest repeating pattern it can be represented as. For example, the following array: [3, 5, 8, 3, 5, 8, 3, 5, 8] has a period of 3 - the length of the repeating pattern 3, 5, 8. Your task is to write a program or function which, whe...

quartata

Hope you're enjoying your time in J tacit soup hell

seequ

@TuxCopter What would I use Cheddar for instead of, say, Rust?

TuxCopter

6:03 PM

@seequ Uberbork your application?

seequ

@Mego You could also try Joe ;P

quartata

@seequ psst check us out chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/35416/pytek

TuxCopter

srs, atm Cheddar is not a production ready language

Anonymous

@quartata It's not very tasty

quartata

@Mego heh

seequ

6:05 PM

Mh, I think Rust and Elixir sets me up for quite a while now.

Anonymous

What madman designed this language...

Downgoat

@seequ it's a language designed to combine the best of scripting and big OO languages, especially bringing in the aspect of extensibility. It brings in both functional and OO aspects too.

Anonymous

Of course, I'm sure Jelly will be equally difficult :P

Downgoat

@TuxCopter orly

VoteToClose

I'm not wrong, right?

Downgoat

6:06 PM

citation-needed

quartata

@Mego It's actually quite clever when you get accustomed. Your main problem is you're golfing it

TuxCopter

@Downgoat No while loops

Downgoat

Yes

I added them

seequ

@Downgoat Compiles to js?

TuxCopter

Very small stdlib

Pratically no docs

etc

Anonymous

6:07 PM

@VoteToClose If it's the answer that I think the conversation is about (need to not look into it too much or else J knowledge will fall out of my brain), then yeah, you're right

seequ

Who needs while loops :P

Anonymous

@quartata I don't know how to not golf anymore :P

TuxCopter

@seequ Right. Gotos and ifs are enough

quartata

@Mego How do you normally learn languages

Downgoat

@seequ no

VoteToClose

6:08 PM

@Mego gunziping a string.

Downgoat

interoreted

it can be precompiled to an intermediate reoresentation however

quartata

Once you're working with explicit verbs with occasional small tacit verbs it'll feel a lot more sane

Anonymous

@quartata By writing basic programs, slowly working my way up the complexity until everything clicks

quartata

You're not supposed to do everything tacitly

@Mego Then do that

Downgoat

@TuxCopter I think last time tou checked cheddar was 5 year ago

Anonymous

6:08 PM

I specifically wanted to get my feet wet in tacit programming though

TuxCopter

@Downgoat Cheddar didn't existed 5 years ago

Downgoat

Its hyperbole

seequ

@Downgoat It's interpreted on top of js?

Anonymous

Explicit J isn't too hard. It's the tacit part that's giving me issues, but that's also the part I'm most interested in

TuxCopter

And where are the docs then? The GitBook thing is pratically empty

btw you should clean the branches

quartata

6:09 PM

@Mego Here's a tip then

Downgoat

@TuxCopter ...

there is docs on entire stdlib

you gotta look into the folders

quartata

edit -> session display form -> tree

New Main Posts

0

Q: Read a crossword with a twist!

Similar to this question, but this is a crossword variation! Instead of only one letter per grid square, you can have one or two. Input: A 2d array, or whatever works in your language. You can assume valid inputs Any array size must work Output: An array of all the words Across and down...

quartata

super handy

Downgoat

Stuff for libs will come after finals week

TuxCopter

6:10 PM

Well, wasn't here last time I checked

Anonymous

@quartata I should probably also mention that I'm using TIO for learning

TuxCopter

@Downgoat Wait, under 'Standard Library' there is only String

quartata

@Mego You should get the actual repl

Downgoat

@TuxCopter yea?

quartata

The GUI one is very nice

TuxCopter

6:11 PM

The only thing in the stdlib is the String class???

Downgoat

yes and no

it's complex

TuxCopter

20/20 vrey big stdlib

Downgoat

Anonymous

@quartata I will at some point

seequ

@Downgoat Well, good luck to the project

Downgoat

6:12 PM

Thanks, but I won't need luck because cheese is that good :D :P

@TuxCopter btw you spelt very wrong

also, docs are hard

you try making docs for STDLIB with 600 functions

seequ

But like

Is it actually interpreted with an interpreter written in js?

Flp.Tkc

to python programmers - which IDE do you use?

Anonymous

@Flp.Tkc Notepad++

seequ

@Flp.Tkc vim

Dennis

Atom

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

6:16 PM

@Flp.Tkc repl.it

Anonymous

@quartata So I came up with this for Heron's formula: %:@([:*/([:%&2+/)-/0&,). How bad is it?

zyabin101

@Flp.Tkc IDLE

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I'm always right Given the following input: A number consisting of decimal digits, the guess A number consisting of decimal digits, the answer You are to output a single natural number, the base, such that when you interpret the guess as a number in the base base, the distance between guess ...

Anonymous

@Flp.Tkc Ok, slight correction: Atom for large projects, Notepad++ for everything else, and IDLE if I don't have either of those for whatever reason

Downgoat

@seequ yeah

but it's fast I promise

It also does not inherit JS's super weird stuff

mınxomaτ

6:18 PM

@Flp.Tkc The few times I had to use python, SciTE.

seequ

It's not.

TuxCopter

@Flp.Tkc Butterflies

seequ

Find a way to make it compileable if you want it to have any future.

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

Lol you get the pun?

Downgoat

@seequ :''''(

seequ

6:19 PM

The real world is harsh

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

And then I stand front of people calling text editors IDEs. There is a big difference for sure.

Flp.Tkc

thanks everyone!

seequ

Cheddar seems like it'd be pretty easy to compile.

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー define IDE

Dennis

@Mego No clue. To illustrate how much easier Jelly is: SH_0;$P½

Downgoat

@seequ I mean I could compile it to JS no problem but to like a different language it'll be a pain

quartata

6:21 PM

@Mego I can't really read that haha. I'll take a closer look later

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@seequ Integrated Development Environment. That means you should be able to run code on it directly, without opening other programs.

zyabin101

@Dennis "Something very bad happened" and still happens in QtWeb. :(

seequ

Compiling to js is enough for most (and people like web apps)

mınxomaτ

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Development, not Desktop.

seequ

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー All of these text editors allow that

mınxomaτ

6:22 PM

^

Anonymous

@quartata I can't read it either so :P

Dennis

@zyabin101 I'm missing context (and I don't know what QtWeb is).

Anonymous

@Dennis I'm sure Jelly is easier, but I learn better by doing it the hard way first :P

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

> you should be able to run code on it directly, without opening other programs.

quartata

@seequ Have I mentioned Pytek will be able to be compiled to C and JS? :P

zyabin101

6:22 PM

@Dennis qtweb.net

seequ

@quartata You haven't actually mentioned what Pytek is

zyabin101

Whenever I run any program, the attempt valiantly fails, saying that "something very bad happened."

mınxomaτ

Once you discover that LLVM can compile C++ to C, the real fun starts.

redstarcoder

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー In vim you can run your code, just :!go run *.go or something

quartata

@seequ High level gradually typed procedural language I'm working on with @El'endiaStarman

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

6:24 PM

@redstarcoder No idea of vim o_O

quartata

I linked to the chat room earlier

Dennis

@zyabin101 Run how/where?

redstarcoder

I use it all the time for :!go doc

zyabin101

@Dennis Any program on TIO Nexus, at all.

seequ

All of the popular editors support programming very well and can double up as IDEs when necessary.

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

6:25 PM

@redstarcoder Not that I use Golang anyways :P

redstarcoder

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー replace commands as necessary :p

El'endia Starman

*perks up ears at the mention of Pytek*

Dennis

@zyabin101 With QtWeb?

zyabin101

Yup.

seequ

You can also integrate a terminal to vim if you want a REPL

Flp.Tkc

6:26 PM

@Dennis @Mego thanks for suggesting atom, I've just installed it and it looks quite nice.

Dennis

@zyabin101 Use a different browser.

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@seequ You mean syntax-highlighting. Notepad++ opens another program visibly though, so I can't really consider it a Self-contained IDE.

Downgoat

@quartata hopefully will be will occur in this decade :P

redstarcoder

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Geany is a Notepad++ clone which doubles as an IDE! (Console log is within the IDE)

quartata

@Downgoat worth the weight

El'endia Starman

6:27 PM

@Downgoat Well y'know...fine wines get better with time...

zyabin101

@Dennis What does it need?

quartata

@Flp.Tkc You'll find out rather quickly that Atom is slow as molasses

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@redstarcoder I didn't talk about Geany here.

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman Honestly I think Cheddar fits the "age"ing idea better than Pyteks but OK :P

El'endia Starman

Does nobody else here use Sublime Text?

Dennis

6:28 PM

@zyabin101 I've tested it on Chrome, Firefox, Edge, and IE 11.

redstarcoder

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー I was just bringing it up :)

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

Oh right. I didn't get it at first. (Also, you do not have to ping me thrice at once.)

zyabin101

@Dennis Okay, get older browsers. :3

seequ

@El'endiaStarman Sometimes on Windows, with vim bindings

Dennis

@zyabin101 Huh?

quartata

6:30 PM

I didn't even know QtWeb supported JavaScript

zyabin101

Test TIO Nexus on older versions of browsers.

@quartata Yes it does.

Downgoat

@quartata looks pretty modern 10/10

seequ

pfft

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

I'd say it looks pretty 2016 10/10.

Dennis

@zyabin101 It's not like I didn't; those are the supported ones. For example, older version of IE miss crucial features and will not be supported by Nexus.

quartata

6:31 PM

2008/10

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@quartata 2003/10

Dennis

And if QtWeb is even worse than IE 11, there's really no point in using it.

Downgoat

@zyabin101 wait. Does vihan.org/p/tio work on QtWeb :D

AFAIK it suppport down to IE8 or IE9 unless I did something stupid

zyabin101

@Downgoat Nope.

Downgoat

D:

like doesn't render properly?

Anonymous

6:37 PM

Ugh, J is giving me a colossal headache. I'm going to do something simpler, like quantum physics.

zyabin101

Nope, the Dark Mode doesn't work, the Run button doesn't work, the lang recognition doesn't work >_<

seequ

Why exactly are you using QtWeb?

zyabin101

Chrome and Firefox borked on me.

Downgoat

@zyabin101 :( That sucks

Do you happen to have IE8/9 btw

zyabin101

No

Downgoat

6:39 PM

CMC: Given a folder structure. e.g. foo/bar/baz.md generate the following markdown:

- Foo
  - Bar
      - [Baz](foo/bar/baz.md)

Anonymous

@Downgoat VTC as unclear, inconsistent indentation

Downgoat

crap typo

Anonymous

@Downgoat Python 3, 114 bytes: lambda s:'\n'.join(i*" "+"- "+(i+1==len(s.split('/'))and"[%s](%s)"%(x,s)or x) for i,x in enumerate(s.split('/')))

Anonymous

There's probably a shorter way but my brain is tired

quartata

@Mego What J problems are you having now?

Anonymous

6:49 PM

@quartata Being too tired for the concepts to sink in

quartata

I recommnd you skip ahead to chapter 9 in the book by the way

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

Lol you ask??? J is a monster, everyone knows that!

quartata

Once you have a good grasp of trains things are easier

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

I had a cheat-sheet page open, but couldn't figure out what meant what.

Anonymous

Thanks, taking a look now

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

6:58 PM

@Downgoat let me guess, this is for cheddar? :p

Downgoat

Kinda

it's for docs

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

figured

@El'endiaStarman never surrender

Adnan

@Dennis Could you please pull Oasis?

Downgoat

:D finished string docs on cheese

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/5j00w4/…

@Downgoat also nice!

Conor O'Brien

7:12 PM

@Mego I can't believe you were J'ing and didn't ping me

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien You weren't here. Also, the last time I pinged you while I was trying to figure out J, you didn't answer.

Downgoat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ :D +1 for reddit thread in native language

Conor O'Brien

@Mego whaaat? when was this?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Downgoat ikr

Conor O'Brien

@quartata Strictly speaking, [: f g is not the same as f@g. It's more probably equivalent to f@:g. E.g., +/@*: != [: +/ *:, but +/@:*: == [: +/ *:

Anonymous

7:16 PM

@ConorO'Brien I can't seem to find it in the transcript. Maybe I hallucinated.

Conor O'Brien

@Mego oh, okay. what was the question, if it wasn't answered?

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien I don't remember. Something about forks probably.

Conor O'Brien

gotcha

Anonymous

It's really hard to break out of the concatenative-and-imperative mindset that I developed from a year of working on and with Seriously

Conor O'Brien

read some J essays to help you get into the mood

Anonymous

7:21 PM

I tried, but lack of sleep is making it hard to absorb information. I'm going to give it another go in a few hours.

El'endia Starman

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ *considers elevening your username to ASCII*

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

you can't :D

it's a SFF chat profile

Conor O'Brien

I think he still can

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman There would be no witnesses

Conor O'Brien

@Mego code.jsoftware.com/wiki/Essays/J_Tweets

El'endia Starman

7:23 PM

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Actually, I'm fairly certain Conor is right. I can change your chat profile's parent.

(But I wont.)

Anonymous

2017 should be the year of no annoying username trends

Anonymous

No small caps, no anagrams, none of that nonsense

LegionMammal978

> NotAUsernameTrendMammal978

Kritixi Lithos

Yeah, I even changed my name from Greek to Latin letters

Anonymous

sigh

Anonymous

7:25 PM

Nap time, I suppose

LegionMammal978

> NotAUsernameTrendego

El'endia Starman

@Mego Yes. Let those trends be the one good thing to die in 2016. :P

New Sandboxed Posts

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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

my first post on here, be gentle ;) Find all anagrams within a text code-golf Somehow I stumbled upon an implementation of a school assignment from about a year ago, and after having seen many amazing and mindblowing code-golf solutions on here, I thought it's time I bring my own challenge a...

Anonymous

If nothing else, you can always count on my username to be "Mego" and my avatar to be a penguin

Anonymous

And for me to be grumpy when people don't use the Sandbox

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

7:26 PM

@El'endiaStarman How? I think you can only change for Christianity.SE.

El'endia Starman

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー I can change his name on C.SE and his chat profile's parent to C.SE. Ta-da!

Conor O'Brien

@Mego are you always grumpy at calvin then?

Anonymous

@ConorO'Brien I have a lot of respect for Calvin because he's proven time and time again that he's the exception to the rule

Conor O'Brien

ah cool

Anonymous

Also he's a genuinely pleasant guy

Anonymous

7:28 PM

Like, I kind of felt bad about how annoyed I got with his frequent meta posts during the showcase debacle

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@El'endiaStarman I don't think Conor O'Brien would approve of that LOL:P

El'endia Starman

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Oh no, Conor is fine.

Conor O'Brien

I am? Oh of course

El'endia Starman

It's Easterly Irk who has the blasphemous small-caps name.

Dennis

@Adnan Done and done.

Conor O'Brien

7:32 PM

"I don't like your shirt" "Why?" "It has small caps on it" "So?" "Take it off" "uhhhhh" "NOW"

6

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

I guess that smallcaps is dead lol.

New Main Posts

0

Q: Binary to trinary

The problem Given a binary number from 0 to 111111 convert it to trinary. (Base 3). Then print the result. Rules No using a list of conversions. Don't cheat You must use a string as the number No compressing the input string As I will be testing the code with several different numbers I can...

code-golf parsing

Conor O'Brien

TERNARY GOSH DARNIT

El'endia Starman

@ErikGolferエリックゴルファー Can we also kill superfluous Japanese characters in usernames?

7

Downgoat

^ I agree.

betseg

7:35 PM

Except ッ plz

Downgoat

Same reason I'm not "Downgoat 🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐GOATS>SHEEP🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐🐐"

(it's obvious goats > sheep)

New Meta Posts

-1

Q: Couldn't there be more specified report reasons?

Often, and I mean very often, I see questions closed or on hold for the reason of Unclear what you're asking Though the question is very clear and understandable, it was just voted unclear because it had some problems (e.g. bonusses, "do x without y", etc.), and it was the only usable repo...

feature-request

ErikGolferエリックゴルファー

@El'endiaStarman I think I'll 11 them out soon, but not today :P

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Find the inverse of a power series* code-golfmath Meta: *would be nice to have a title that does not sound so scary:) Introduction Most of you are probably familiar with the ring of polynomials R[X] over some ring R. This can be generalized to the ring of formal power series R[[X]] over so...

flawr

@El'endiaStarman It would be nice if everyone would have heard a lecture in abstract algebra.

would you mind reviewing this monstrousity ^?

El'endia Starman

7:38 PM

> Most of you are probably familiar with the ring of polynomials R[X] over some ring R.

I dunno if "most" is the right word... :P

flawr

because you peasants don't know anything about math

betseg

I know what a polynomial is \o/

But that's it

quartata

@ConorO'Brien Yeah fair but we're not operating on lists here

He hasn't really gotten to rank yet as far as I can tell

flawr

@betseg You don't need to know much more, I'd be happy to get some feedback from you too!

TuxCopter

@El'endiaStarman What the hell is a polynomial R[X]

Downgoat

7:41 PM

@El'endiaStarman What is ring of polynomial

El'endia Starman

@TuxCopter R[X] is the name of the ring of polynomials.

Downgoat

At least no greek letters

TuxCopter

I am still lost

El'endia Starman

The polynomials in question have real coefficients.

betseg

What is a ring of polynomials

El'endia Starman

7:41 PM

You can add, subtract, and multiply them to get another polynomial of the same form.

That's what "ring" means here.

flawr

@TuxCopter R[X] is just a symbol for the set of all polynomials with coefficients in R

betseg

@El'endiaStarman Ohh k

quartata

@El'endiaStarman ahahaha I love how everyone started asking that the second you mentioned it

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman them = given polynomial?

flawr

luckily everyone is bothering @El'endiaStarman and not me:D

TuxCopter

7:43 PM

Can someone explain simply what is a polynomial?

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Pretty much, yeah. You can add, subtract, and multiply two polynomials with real coefficients to get another polynomial with real coefficients.

@flawr I know! That's so weird!

@TuxCopter A + Bx + Cx^2 + Dx^3 + ...

(Coefficients may be 0.)

TuxCopter

Is it (Bx)² or B(x²)?

betseg

B(x²)

El'endia Starman

Technically, either since B is just an arbitrary constant, but the latter is more proper.

TuxCopter

k

Conor O'Brien

7:45 PM

@quartata oh ok

Downgoat

@El'endiaStarman Isn't it other way around?

Conor O'Brien

@quartata rank was the hardest thing for me to learn

quartata

Rank was actually the easiest thing for me to learn.

El'endia Starman

@Downgoat Uh, like ... + Dx^3 + Cx^2 + Bx + A?

Conor O'Brien

what was the hardest thing for you to learn?

Downgoat

7:46 PM

@El'endiaStarman yeah

TuxCopter

It's the same thing...

Downgoat

Algebra teacher got mad if incorrect order tho

El'endia Starman

They're functionally equivalent, yes. One form is clearer than the other in certain contexts.

TuxCopter

@Downgoat wat

But addition is commutative, so both are correct

betseg

@flawr maybe use U+2218 ∘ RING OPERATOR to show composition?

El'endia Starman

7:48 PM

Like if you're talking about infinite series, such as e^x = x^0/0! + x^1/1! + x^2/2! + x^3/3! + ..., then it makes more sense to write the exponents in increasing order.

quartata

@ConorO'Brien Trains greater than forks and gerunds

I'm not counting dyadic ;:

since I still don't get it

flawr

@betseg Oh great idea, thanks!

I even added an example!

Downgoat

@TuxCopter public school teacher are crazy

flawr

@TuxCopter Not necessarily=)

betseg

@flawr you missed one o, in the paragraph after "challenge"

flawr

7:52 PM

@betseg thanks

betseg

After reading the example, I still don't get what the challenge is ;_;

flawr

@betseg Given a p find q

such that p(q(X)) = X + something of order at least n+1 (where n=deg(p))

betseg

Ah i get it now

flawr

Great=) Do you think the whole introduction is superfluous?

betseg

Dunno - I don't think most people know these things, but I don't think people who don't know would understand just by reading your introduction too.

flawr

7:59 PM

I wanted to motivate what we're doing below, but on the other hand I think it is just even more confusing.

Transcript for