The Nineteenth Byte

quartata

13:14

Wow Wolfram's image identify thing is really good. Maybe we won't need a research team and 5 years for telling whether a picture is a bird or not

Fatalize

^ I don't remember where that reference comes from

DJMcMayhem

xkcd

In the 60s, Marvin Minsky assigned a couple of undergrads to spend the summer programming a computer to use a camera to identify objects in a scene. He figured they'd have the problem solved by the end of the summer. Half a century later, we're still working on it.

Fatalize

thanks

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Is it a net of a die? code-golfgeometryascii-art Inspired by this question on Puzzling.SE. To display all sides of a common 6-sided die (or any polyhedron in general), we usually use a net which is an unfolded, flattened representation of the die's faces. The most commonly used net for dice is...

Poke

@DJMcMayhem I wouldn't say the source is xkcd... this is an actual thing: dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/6125/AIM-100.pdf

The very evil ROFLcopter

13:31

:D I sucefully created a GUI version of the REPL

Only problem: 1 FPS

Literally

Fixed the problem, now Tk don't accept unicode characters (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

wat

β => ß

Shebang

13:48

@TheveryevilROFLcopter Hello world in Stuck:

The very evil ROFLcopter

0 bytes, I know ._.

Shebang

:D

It's too bad I have unofficially retired it

The very evil ROFLcopter

?

Y REPL
        ØE
Expected " ", got "Ø"

~~Huh~~ Tk and unicode

∅ is replaced with Ø :/

Wait

I can copy-paste the characters but not type them WTF TK

Yodle

I got my account disabled on access to a database because I tried the wrong password too many times. I was testing to see what my automation program would do if it hung on the login screen due to an incorrect password ;-;

The very evil ROFLcopter

14:03

lol

Poke

@Yodle looks like you have to actually interact with people now

Yodle

@Poke Thats how I found out why it was disabled. I thought it was just cause I was connecting too many times yesterday. I mean, connecting once, trying one password, and disconnecting to try again doesn't really seem like the best way to crack a password to me, but owell.

Poke

That kinda seems like the standard method to me, bubs

then you repeat that about ten million times

Yodle

The rdc takes about a min to login though, would be better to just stay connected and try ten million :p

Poke

14:26

rdp?

Are you really RDP'ing into a box in order to connect to a db..?

The very evil ROFLcopter

\o/\o/\o/ :D:D:D

Fatalize

looks like APL

The very evil ROFLcopter

Yep

betseg

I have a king-of-the-hill idea!

The very evil ROFLcopter

        σ10/{α^2}
undefined local variable or method `a' for #<Y:0x4443c00>

Yodle

14:38

@Poke ye, the database is apparently slow as balls since they moved it, so now we have to remote into a computer that's right next to it so it can run stuff quickly again.

The very evil ROFLcopter

@Tk y u do dis

Wait wat

Nvm

Poke

@Yodle That makes literally no sense... If anything you're increasing the request time because you're adding an additional hop (disregarding other overhead).

TimmyD

@Poke Maybe it moved from onsite to across a WAN

Poke

@TimmyD Then why would adding another hop aid in that?

Yodle

@TimmyD correct, it used to be local, now its very far. The tool is super old and is already slow locally, so now that it's far makes it so queries that people had to run overnight now die because the servers reset in the morning.

Poke

14:45

unless the computer they're remoting in to has an open connection pool to the database

if you don't mind me asking, what dbms are you using?

and why is a special tool required to run queries?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@El'endiaStarman as the dude in here who seems to play a lot of puzzle games, have you played braid?

Poke

braid is the best

play braid

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

okay

Thinking about getting it as a bday present for myself, but not sure.

Yodle

It's not actually a database, more of a requirements application. Call it a glorified spreadsheet.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@Poke so you've played it then?

Poke

14:48

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I beat it and got all the stars. I love that game

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

okay

what about fez?

Poke

I have not tried that one

portal and portal 2 are good

quantum conundrum is good

The very evil ROFLcopter

Huh for some reason calling exit do nothing

Poke

limbo seemed ok but i need to start playing it again

Yodle

Turing Test is a new one that I watched a LP of

very portal-like

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

14:50

@Poke I got and completed portal 1/2 during the summer sale, haven't heard of quantum conundrum.

Poke

It's worth a look

Antichamber is ok if you want to be confused a lot

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

oh, I think el'endia's posted that in here saying it looked cool/he wanted it. not sure when though

TimmyD

@Poke If the app is structured so that it performs a lot of queries to a database, and you move that database across a WAN without moving the app, you've significantly increased the time the app spends waiting for the database response. So, you move the app across the WAN as well, so that the "long" time is on the user-end of things (clicking between screens, say) where it's not as noticeable or performance impacting.

Poke

@TimmyD That makes sense. I think I misunderstood the usecase

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ It's a cool game but it makes you think about how you think which is... weird

TimmyD

@Poke Like suddenly becoming aware of your tongue?

Poke

14:53

@TimmyD /cringe

the talos principle is good

TimmyD

I rather liked Limbo. Very atmospheric, and actually a very "zen" experience, even through the tense platforming segments.

Poke

trine 1/2 seem good. i played only a little bit of them

need to look at my steam list again...

The very evil ROFLcopter

:D Tk is stupid

TimmyD

I was somewhat disappointed with how "open" the story in Limbo was -- I prefer a more well-articulated narrative in my games.

Shebang

Library > Games (558)

I may have a problem..

Poke

14:59

or just a humble bundle addiction

TimmyD

Nah. It's only a problem when your backlog isn't all on Steam. Then you need to try and remember what games you had where.

mınxomaτ

I've only ever played one single game regularly, and currently it's the only one installed on any of my PCs.

The very evil ROFLcopter

For some reason Tk decided that ? is fancier than all these silly Unicode characters

DJMcMayhem

@Poke Talos is incredible. Easily in my top 5 of all time

Poke

@DJMcMayhem Did you see the speedrun that was done at GDQ semi-recently?

DJMcMayhem

15:07

No, I didn't. How long was it? (And which ending?)

Poke

iirc it was about 1 hour

DJMcMayhem

Glitches?

Poke

i think that one was a 100%

I only watched the beginning because i didn't want to ruin it

haha

DJMcMayhem

Oh, have you not beaten it yet?

Yeah, avoid spoilers like the plague. The ending is really cool

Poke

I have not beaten it yet... in fact i think i only just got to the tower

there was a puzzle that pissed me off so i took a break

>.<

DJMcMayhem

15:11

Nice... That's where it starts to get really cool. :)

Poke

it doesn't help that i've gotten back into overwatch and diablo 3

I was rank ~120 on the diablo3 barbarian leaderboards this season

i've since dropped to about 200

but that's still not bad

DJMcMayhem

Overwatch looks pretty awesome. I want to play it, but I don't really feel like paying full price

Poke

40 bucks isn't bad for a polished game like that

right now the Halloween event is live which is pretty dope

The very evil ROFLcopter

Y is released :D

DJMcMayhem

Yeah I know, but I try to avoid paying more than 10-15 for a game. So I rarely get new ones

Steam makes budget gaming really easy

TimmyD

15:15

So does Goodwill.

or other thrift stores.

CMC: Personal favorite video game of all time?

Jason Boyd

wait what is this room about?

DJMcMayhem

@JasonBoyd Everything. ;)

Jason Boyd

everything pertaining to what?

ArtOfCode

> General discussion for codegolf.stackexchange.com | Guidelines: ppcg.github.io/chatiquette

udioica

cheap games

TimmyD

15:17

For me, it's a four-way tie -- System Shock 2, Riven: The sequel to Myst, Half-Life 2: Episode 2, The Last of Us

Jason Boyd

im looking for coding geeks to hang out and chat about whatever

ooh timmy good list

The very evil ROFLcopter

The only videogame I play is Minecraft :/

Jason Boyd

the last of us freaked me out i had to stop playing

DJMcMayhem

@JasonBoyd It really varies. Mostly coding, but you'll people talking about video-games, linguistics, vim, code golf, mini challenges, polls, etc.

Jason Boyd

nice

any pythonistas?

The very evil ROFLcopter

15:18

Me

DJMcMayhem

Dammit stop hitting enter!

The very evil ROFLcopter

I used to do everything in Python

Jason Boyd

ive been learning kivy. am determined to make something useful for android with it

DJMcMayhem

@TimmyD That's really hard. It would be between HL2, bioshock infinite, talos, terraria and borderlands 2

Jason Boyd

have put my ios aspirations on hold as i finally was losing my mind there

DJMcMayhem

15:19

Antichamber definitely gets honorable mention

The very evil ROFLcopter

The only thing I know about Kivy is how to make it crash :P

Jason Boyd

lol

TimmyD

Oh, I love Terraria. Easily one of the best price-to-value ratios I've ever spent in gaming.

Jason Boyd

it took me a full week fulltime to get it to build a runnable apk

but i got there

i liked starbound in beta

The very evil ROFLcopter

github.com/yarnpkg/yarn Because there wasn't already too much JS package managers ._.

DJMcMayhem

15:21

@TimmyD Absolutely! I've got like 150 hours in it, and they are still updating it!

TimmyD

@TheveryevilROFLcopter Grats.

DJMcMayhem

Alright, I gtg. Cya guys later!

The very evil ROFLcopter

.o/

Jason Boyd

i havent played terraria. what makes it awesome?

The very evil ROFLcopter

Monsters everywhere?

Downgoat

15:26

15 hours ago, by Downgoat

Yam: A new JS Package Manager

ninja

TimmyD

@JasonBoyd It's a 2D procedurally generated sandbox game (mining for resources, building equipment, fighting monsters, etc.), but it's amazingly well-balanced (the farther from your starting location you get, the more dangerous), has a bazillion different types of monsters, a dozen (?) summonable boss monsters, and an ungodly amount of replayability.

The very evil ROFLcopter

(Modded) Minecraft is better than Terraria

TimmyD

I strongly disagree. There's very little progression in Minecraft. You start the game fighting against zombies and skeletons and creepers, and 20 hours in, you're still fighting against zombies and skeletons and creepers.

The very evil ROFLcopter

This is why I added modded

Jason Boyd

so the balancing is the sellig point. i liked starbound, but it got repetitive eventually

New Sandboxed Posts

15:29

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

[master list] Natural Pi #2 - River Goal Simulation What are we simulating? According to this paper, the ratio of the length of a river to the distance between start and end is approximately Pi! (This may have been disproved empirically, but I could find the data and for this challenge we'll ...

TimmyD

@TheveryevilROFLcopter Are there mods that expand the monster selection?

The very evil ROFLcopter

Monster selection?

TimmyD

@JasonBoyd The other big selling point is the developers are almost constantly updating it.

Jason Boyd

i should check it out

Sherlock9

@DJMcMayhem May I recommend Paladins? Similar to Overwatch and free

TimmyD

15:33

Just in the past 8 months, they've added a NewGamePlus mode, graphical improvements, tweaked the resource types, and added new biomes and monsters. And this is for a like a 7 year old game.

Jason Boyd

is it multiplayer?

TimmyD

@TheveryevilROFLcopter Monster selection. Are there mods so that you're not only ever fighting zombies, skeletons, and creepers?

@JasonBoyd Yes, LAN or through Steam. I strongly recommend playing it multiplayer if you can - it's way better as a group.

Jason Boyd

is it like an mmorpg, or just single session games?

The very evil ROFLcopter

@TimmyD Obviously

TimmyD

There are also alternate game modes for multiplayer (capture the flag, etc.), but I've only ever done straight up PvE.

GLASSIC

15:35

I miss Minecraft

Jason Boyd

i played a lot of minecraft when it was in beta. havent really since

TimmyD

Characters are stored locally on your computer. Whoever is hosting stores the game world and game state. Kinda like how Diablo II used to run.

Anonymous

@TimmyD And 40 hours in, you're designing elaborate traps to murder zombies, skeletons, and creepers without you doing anything

Jason Boyd

timmy are we talking terraria or minecraft?

TimmyD

Terraria

El'endia Starman

15:36

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Yes, I have played Braid. It was a good game and probably worth the price.

Jason Boyd

braid was awesome

Anonymous

Braid is a neat game

The very evil ROFLcopter

I don't have Braid ;_;

Anonymous

A fun, cheap, simple game that I enjoy is 0rbitalis

mınxomaτ

Many neat games (also blast from the past): andkon.com/arcade

El'endia Starman

15:38

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Quantum Condundrum is on my Steam wishlist, I think. Antichamber is probably one of my favorite games ever.

Anonymous

Oh Antichamber... <3

Jason Boyd

antichamber was cool

i wish it were longer

Anonymous

I wish it had more replayability outside of speed runs

Anonymous

That too

Anonymous

It REALLY needs a level designer tool for user-created content

PhiNotPi

15:42

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to do dynamic memory allocation in the cheapest/easiest way possible, for Quest-for-Tetris.

El'endia Starman

@Mego I'll bet that the non-Euclidean nature makes that hard to implement.

Nathan Merrill

Just finished every ability in my Fellowship KoTH :)

there's 65 of them

PhiNotPi

I've found several heap algorithms (buddy system, etc) but my goal is to do it in as few instructions as possible.

Nathan Merrill

@TimmyD I play Terraria. What's NewGamePlus mode?

TimmyD

@NathanMerrill Harder monsters, the corruption is closer to your start, more events, harder bosses, etc.

DJMcMayhem

15:45

Antichamber was the first steam game I ever played. It blew my mind

Nathan Merrill

oh, you mean Hardmode

?

TimmyD

Sure, I don't remember the exact name.

Nathan Merrill

ah ok :)

yeah, I tried playing the game on Hardcore Hardmode

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill really looking forward to this one

Nathan Merrill

good!

DJMcMayhem

15:46

@Sherlock9 Cool, thanks! I'll check it out

PhiNotPi

It's well above all previous KOTHs I've seen in terms of complexity.

Nathan Merrill

yeah. I've made a pretty nice system. There's very few locations where there are "ability checks"

mostly everything is event based

so hopefully, it could be extended and played with if people wanted to

PhiNotPi

Speaking of which, I don't see ability checks explained in the sandbox post.

Nathan Merrill

ability checks?

oh, what I said above?

PhiNotPi

yes

Nathan Merrill

15:52

let me put it this way. I have a "Character" object. It contains all data for the character, like HP regen, and current Abilities, and it calls events like "Turn Start", and so on. All but 2 abilities either set a stat at the beginning of the game or say "execute me on this event"

the two "exceptional" abilities require an ability check

the two exceptions are Clever and Smart

Clever reduces cooldowns of abilities, and Smart reduces the mana cost for abilities

so, when I'm actually calculating the cooldown, I basically manually check for their cleverness, and do it that way

PhiNotPi

What's the motivation for putting points into any particular ability score?

Nathan Merrill

you get 4 abilities.

you don't put points into them

PhiNotPi

Hmm... I think I was just using different terminology.

Nathan Merrill

anyways, the "manual check for cleverness" is what I meant by "ability check"

PhiNotPi

attributes, I mean.

Nathan Merrill

15:54

oh!

STR is meant for tanky characters. You have more HP, and regenerate it faster

PhiNotPi

"ability check" means something totally different in several other RPGs.

Nathan Merrill

INT is meant for ability-based characters. You can do more actions (and more expensive ones)

DEX is good all around. It makes you go faster

it should be noted that the damage of your Slices is equal to your primary attribute, which is your highest attribute at the start of the game

(Slice is your basic attack)

PhiNotPi

Do attribute scores affect the outcomes of any other abilities?

Anonymous

Challenge idea: if the Mafia KotH ever gets off the ground and gets posted to main, an interesting follow-up would be auction mafia, where special abilities are auctioned at the start of the game

Jason Boyd

how many here are well-practiced in compiling libraries for multiple OSes?

PhiNotPi

16:13

@NathanMerrill how much have you done in terms of balancing?

Jason Boyd

is my question dumb?

PhiNotPi

no, it's not dumb, I just don't have an answer

TimmyD

I don't think it's a dumb question, just that folks may not know or may not be. For example, I'm a PowerSheller -- I'm vaguely familiar with the term "gcc" since I studied Computer Science in college, but I have no sort of familiarity that could lead to being able to help.

Anonymous

@JasonBoyd A bit, why?

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi none, intuition based

I mean, there's a counter to every ability

Jason Boyd

16:16

im not so great at doing this when things dont work as intended. and im trying to figure how one could learn to be better at this. compilers, makefiles, etc. seems no simple way to learn. in my case, wanting to push more things into kivy or cordova stacks, for example

Nathan Merrill

but there may be some ability combos I haven't thought of that may be virtually unbeatable

Anonymous

Makefiles won't make cross-platform compilation any easier. All they do is consolidate the compilation requirements. Nowadays nobody actually writes Makefiles - they use CMake or a similar build system to generate Makefiles.

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi no.

well, kind of

like, your regeneration rate is based on your STR

PhiNotPi

clone seems OP, what's the downside other than the two ability slots?

Nathan Merrill

100 mana cost

Jason Boyd

16:18

i guess, im trying to even grok, if what im wanting to know is learnable. like, does it require years of native programming to pick up all the tools and conventions, or can one somehow target a few areas to learn? i fear former

Anonymous

The best way to handle cross-platform consistency is to write unit tests and run them on all of the platforms you are targetting. If a test fails on only one platform, that will clue you in on what you should be looking at to fix the problem.

betseg

reddit.com/r/linux/comments/571u9t/slug/d8oncvf literallymeirl

Anonymous

Learning how to write cross-platform software isn't something you study. It's something you try to do, and you learn from your mistakes as you go.

Nathan Merrill

you start off with 50 mana, which means you have to have at least 5 additional points in INT.

Anonymous

Some languages (Java, Python, .NET, etc.) make it easy because they handle the difficulties of making everything work regardless of the platform, and present you with a unified framework/stdlib that is consistent across platforms.

Jason Boyd

16:20

what i mean is, ive been so confined to platform-agnostic languages for so long, i am hopeless when i cant compile some native package. only recourse is to hope some maintainer eventually fixes for whatever platform

right. ive been in those areas -- python, java, flash mostly, for so long

i dont even know what types of things need to be tweaked to compile for different platforms

Anonymous

Some languages (C and C++) are a bit harder, but sticking to the cstdlib/STL will make things much simpler. You'll only have to worry about the bugs and holes in MSVC.

Jason Boyd

yes but thats not my concern. im concerned about existing 3rd party libs that barf compiling for platform X

not code i control

Anonymous

Usually if something in C/C++ barfs on one platform, it's on Windows using MSVC.

Jason Boyd

for instance portaudio. someone was working on building for android, abandoned in 2012, and i have no idea how successful that port was/is, or how much work might be required to pick it up

Anonymous

In that specific example, it shouldn't be too hard. Android runs on Java. Porting stuff to Java isn't too hard.

Jason Boyd

16:23

this involves porting to native code, not just java

and its impossible for me. but if i felt like it was attainable, could dive in and try to update my C skills. i just dont know if it is attainable. like, theres some reason others abandoned 4 years ago

Anonymous

Then yeah it's going to be difficult. You'd be better off doing non-mobile stuff for a while.

Anonymous

Native code on mobile is a nightmare

Jason Boyd

im a masochist

Anonymous

There's a reason why mobile devs use Unity or Xandarin with C#

Jason Boyd

i find it weird that in the 30 years ive been looking at code, no one has managed to create a true cross-platform audio library that just works. even though they all need to do essentially the same things, and thats a lot of years to work it out

sure

maybe i'll bite the bullet and use those tools at some point. i dislike all things microsoft and dont trust vendor lock-in in general

TimmyD

16:28

One of the best experiences I've had in learning the underlying, well, everything, was installing Debian from source. I began with a floppy that had a few small tools on it and a blank hard drive, and went from there.

Jason Boyd

im not that much a masochist. i like working on apps. i used linux several years (now os x) and learned much, but didnt get to compiling a new kernel or anything

but like, i need to find people with your skilset to help do things like get portaudio (and subsequently pyaudio wrapper) working on mobile!

mınxomaτ

@Mego All jokes aside, C# is actually one of the best cross-platform solutions. With DotNET Core and Mono, you now have two MIT-licensed FOSS runtimes. And Mono really does work anywhere, probably even on toasters.

Beta Decay

Neat :D

codegolf.stackexchange.com/help/badges/42/…

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi Any other abilities that seem OP?

Jason Boyd

so people vouch for mono? ive not been sure how stable an option to consider this

The very evil ROFLcopter

16:36

Yep, C# can run on toasters embeddedarm.com/software/arm-netbsd-toaster.php

Jason Boyd

didnt realize it was FOSS

Newly Featured Questions

91

Q: Golf you a quine for great good!

Using your language of choice, golf a quine. No cheating -- that means that you can't just read the source file and print it. Also, in many languages, an empty file is also a quine: that isn't considered a legit quine either. Points for: Smallest code (in characters) Most obfuscated/obscure s...

The very evil ROFLcopter

@NewlyFeaturedQuestions You exists?

mınxomaτ

@JasonBoyd As long as you use the actual Mono release from github and not the hopelessly outdated Debian packages, all is good

Anonymous

Mono is good. Lots of stuff has been built on Mono.

Anonymous

16:37

@NewlyFeaturedQuestions Wow 10/10 art skills on that avatar

Jason Boyd

i guess my other hangup, not insignificant, is how much easier it is to rapidly develop using languages like python. im spoiled with it. its why im exploring kivy, despite its major failings

i have a pretty complex app built in javascript, and eventually the weight of it was getting to me, having to roll my own everything

mınxomaτ

How is C# not rapid? It's one of the easiest languages if you've worked with C/++ before

Jason Boyd

comparing something to C++ is not a good measure of rapid development

mınxomaτ

I didn't compare it to C++

Jason Boyd

you literally just did

mınxomaτ

16:40

No? If you have worked with C++, C# is much easier.

Anonymous

No, he said C# is easy to learn if you know C++

Anonymous

(which it is)

Jason Boyd

thats whats called a comparison

oh i see

Sherlock9

Nope

Jason Boyd

sorry misunderstood

my bad

TimmyD

16:40

@NewlyFeaturedQuestions Whoa, the bounty bot works suddenly.

Nathan Merrill

I have to agree with mınxomaτ here. I love python, but C# really has quite a lot of syntax niceties that make it comparable IMO

PhiNotPi

@NathanMerrill regarding clone... I would remove it, because either (1) it's easy enough so that "pure clone bots" is a strong strategy, or (2) it's expensive enough that there's no way to ever play it and be worth it.

DJMcMayhem

Fwiw, I have exp with C++ and picked up C# very easily

PhiNotPi

I just don't see a balance working out.

Jason Boyd

maybe i can revisit. but i associate with java, which, yes, is easy to learn, but the verbosity makes coding much slower than python

yesterday i wrote a synthesizer in python, having only just learned the audio library and days before that the gui framework, but i got it working in a few hours. my experience with java is not that rapid, and c# looks like java

mınxomaτ

16:42

I think C# is one of the few languages that benefit from a comprehensive IDE (such as Rider) to accelerate actually writing the code.

Shebang

C# is pretty close to ideal for when I do larger-scale or more "proper" projects

DJMcMayhem

They're just different. C# is about as fast coding as you can get for something big, and python is a scripting language

Jason Boyd

i will take all this under advisement

Shebang

@mınxomaτ Rider is the IntelliJ IDE?

I've been meaning to check it out

Jason Boyd

to be fair, ive seen large systems built in python

Nathan Merrill

16:42

the IDE/libraries make all the difference

DJMcMayhem

Meanwhile, I'm using plain C...

mınxomaτ

@Shebang It's a C# IDE built on R#. And for now at least, it's free.

Nathan Merrill

there are lots of easy libraries in Python

Jason Boyd

fair point nathan

Nathan Merrill

but I hate python's GUI libraries

they are all terrible

Jason Boyd

16:43

agreed there

and whats worse, the developers think they are up to snuff because they live in GUI-less realms

PhiNotPi

Other things like Restore and Resurrect seem pretty powerful too.

What counts as a "spell"?

I'll have to spend some time later today reviewing stuff.

Nathan Merrill

er, refresh the post

I've removed the term spell

Jason Boyd

how is mono for mobile, in the GUI realm?

Nathan Merrill

"action"

@PhiNotPi yeah, I'm considering giving resurrect a mana cost

DJMcMayhem

I've given away almost 500 points this last week... sigh

PhiNotPi

16:45

This reminds me a lot of an RPG my friend made once.

Bye for now!

mınxomaτ

@JasonBoyd Pretty much the standard. VS actually comes with Xamarin tools for mobile.

Nathan Merrill

bye!

Jason Boyd

i dont know what you mean by the standard

and im not on windows

mınxomaτ

@JasonBoyd Chosen by many mobile developers.

Jason Boyd

im asking about quality of frameworks anbd suitability for mobile

Shebang

16:46

@JasonBoyd Meaning you have access to pretty much whatever you need

Jason Boyd

can compare to things like Qt, Swing, UIKit?

i guess anything is better than objective-C...

Shebang

With 0 Android experience I used a library developed for cross-platform use (by myself) and created a functional application in probably an hour once I sorted out how Android does layouts and whatnot

I believe Xamarin Studio would give you the same toolset.

mınxomaτ

@JasonBoyd It has forms: xamarin.com/forms

That's as comprehensive a GUI kit as it gets.

Jason Boyd

maybe

one of my weird biases, coming from Flash world (which btw, was trivial to build for every platform with identical look and feel), was having scalable vector everything, and very non-businessy widgets

for example, does mono support SVG and vector ui elements easily?

mınxomaτ

Of course.

Shebang

16:49

@mınxomaτ Thanks for the tip, installing it now!

Jason Boyd

so the contentions here are: mono is go-to standard for mobile development, has best of breed GUI (and other) frameworks, and C# will feel as easy as python once i learn it more?

mınxomaτ

As we said, it's the de-facto standard for most of the mobile development. Forms follows whatever styleguide each system uses (Material for Android, Metro for Win Phone etc.). Of course you can also roll your own UI/UX.

@JasonBoyd Sure.

Jason Boyd

and i guess you all have used for games? i emphasize games because of non-standard UI as well as multimedia, which are of interest to me

im talking aside from unity

mınxomaτ

Unity games use C# (or UnityScript).

TimmyD

@BetaDecay unupvotes

mınxomaτ

16:52

If you go pure Mono, you will use XNA as the game framework.

Jason Boyd

im thinking maybe i need to dive into this stack. its a little daunting. but html5 and kivy are both proving ornery

that said, i put a lot of faith in future of "html5" (which i expect will be given a new name eventually)

The very evil ROFLcopter

youtube.com/watch?v=yzC4hFK5P3g ok

Nathan Merrill

@PhiNotPi I guess a large purpose of the challenge is "try to figure out what is OP, and implement it". I do think that clone is strong, but I don't think its unbeatable.

I'm pretty sure that a character that simply deals out a massive amount of damage on swipes will out-fight a clone character.

TimmyD

HTML; HTML 2: Markup Harder; HTML With a Vengeance; Live Free or HTML; A Good Day to HTML

Jason Boyd

what i mean is, i think this stack has some advantages and ubiquity that will mature it into a standard for apps and games, but the name overly associates it with web documents and the DOM and such

mınxomaτ

16:58

BTW, Mono supports Pyhton per IronPython.

Nathan Merrill

is IronPython kept up to date?

Jason Boyd

hmmm excellent point. iirc didnt microsoft lay off all its python devs a few years back though?

mınxomaτ

I don't know if this works on mobile or is up to date, since I don't use it.

Nathan Merrill

I know that Jython is pretty far behind in terms of standards. They don't even have Python 3 yet

mınxomaτ

@NathanMerrill github.com/IronLanguages/main last commit is 3 days ago. Python implementation in 2.7

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