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17:00
lots of things dont have python 3. guido is giving until 2020 to retire 2
interesting
But it says "Dynamic Language Runtime". Which was the thing before the CLR. So not a good sign.
well guys thanks for all the input
i have xamarin installed, so could get started immediately :)
@JasonBoyd there's a big difference between a library not supporting python 3, and an implementation not supporting python3
getting implementations up to date seems rather important to me
especially because there are bound to be bugs
my point is many python developers, myself included, are not using 3 because of lack of library support. so an implementatino that doesnt support 3 is not a big deal
bug fixes are backported to 2 usually
python 2 in most implementations is pretty solid
I try to use 3 exclusively
17:04
on another note -- can anyone comment on audio in mono and/or xna? the gold standard for me right now, believe it or not, is webaudio
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

J843136028String Pattern Counting Yes, the title is quite bad -- I don't know what to call this. Anyway, the challenge is to find how many times two strings occur in each other. Examples: > cheese > cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese 0 > aaa > aaaaa 3 > hup > hup two three four 1 > 12345 > 12345 2

So apparently the WiFi interface on my Samsung S7 triggered my firewall's DoS protection. That means it sent more suspicious packets than 5 servers combined that are on the same network ಠ_ಠ
@NathanMerrill Tkinter?
@Maltysen I didn't say they didn't exist. Just that I hate them
17:15
Tkinter is a pain to use
(Tk in general is a pain to use)
its the best looking GUI available in 1987!
@NathanMerrill yeah I was asking why you hate tkinter
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Geno Racklin AsherIs this Rubik's Cube Solvable? The challenge: find out if a rubik's cube configuration is solvable. Takes input as a multidimensional array. An example for a solved cube would be [ [ [0,0,0], [0,0,0], [0,0,0] ], [ [1,1,1], [1,1,1], [1,1,1] ], [ [2,2,2], [2,2,2], [2,2,2] ...

@Maltysen because its documentation is pretty lacking, and trying to produce anything but the "standard" is pretty tough
If all I needed was "open a small window with a couple of buttons" I'd probably use it
but that's about it
i see
in my experience it was better than swing, mainly because python allows calbacks
17:18
with Java 8, Swing is much easier
simply because their functional syntax is so much easier to write
samsung galaxy explodaphone
HOLY SHIT NO, THE LATEST CHROME UPDATE GAVE ME THE ALT+→ THING INSTEAD OF BACKSPACE, IT WAS HAPPENING ON MY SCHOOL COMPUTERS BUT I THOUGHT MY PERSONAL ONE WAS SAFE
cant access imgur here, can someone transcribe it please?
@Maltysen I actually prefer the alt thing. Makes typoing in webforms not scary
I absolutely agree. It takes some adjustment, but its about time
I've lost so many forms due to the backspace issue
17:23
Lazarus is your friend. It's a chrome extension that brings forms back from the dead.
@Maltysen the sad thing is, you kept it unupdated ;_;
@mınxomaτ It was the battery constantly phoning home asking "Should I blow up yet?"
@betseg yeah the new material design stuff is great
@Maltysen Solution: Use Firefox
another dumb question: is material design an implementation, and where is it available? i thought it was more a specification, but only just learned of it
17:29
there are lots of implementations, but you are right, its a specification
for CSS, google has a partial implementation of the majority of the elements they describe
nowadays im a big fan of google
oh cool
for websites
the bonus with using the above CSS is that google actually hosts the above css file, including a version for each primary/secondary color pair
17:32
@NathanMerrill Those pages should have displayed the prompt letting you know you were navigating away. Sounds like poor UX to me. I personally liked backspace to go back.
@Poke right, but the fact is that those websites don't
"Stupid Wolfram, Any thing which is round is not a bowling ball, it may be a user!" LINK
@NathanMerrill then why were you using them :P
you often have no control over what forms you have to fill out :)
for example, paying bills
17:34
"your form doesn't notify me when I try to leave the page" seems like a rather ridiculous reason to stop using a service
well thanks again for folks answering my questions. see you later
@NathanMerrill Perfect reason to lodge a complaint, though :]
i've definitely gotten burned by backspace before
but i still preferred having it over not
alt+left is such an awkward combo
completely offtopic, but I really wish HTML5 had a specification for fallback urls
context?
17:39
I was poking around googles MDL website and remembering all of the work I had to do to get fallback urls to work with arbitrary CSS and Javascript (along with a checksum check)
I ended up having to use a branch of fallback.io (that hasn't been merged yet)
but using fallback.io made my entire website dependent on JS
Ahaha ... I mean, if you squint, sure, kinda ... imageidentify.com/result/0if3u24nqd379
6
what???
I guess i'm missing what you mean by fallback url
That's not too bad actually, I thought it would identify a car though
17:43
@Poke If I want to use a CDN, but the CDN is down or they've been hacked, I would serve my own files
@NathanMerrill For what files? If it's JS, just add to script tags and detect at the top of the file if it has been included already.
@mınxomaτ both css and js. The key is "arbitrary". For JQuery, you can obviously check for the existence of the jQuery variable, but the only alternative is to use javascript to actually make the requests
@daHugLenny I'm a floppy disk, so it's not too bad actually
@NathanMerrill Then use a CDN. A proper one that is. They have more redundancy then you could ever put links in your HTML.
17:47
@NathanMerrill i feel like that defeats part of the reason you'd want to use a cdn
a CDN can go down, or get hacked. They are obviously the first choice, but having a fallback is a good idea
@NathanMerrill No it can't, no it isn't. What CDN have you used? KeyCDN, Cloudflare, MaxCDN etc. never had any downtime. Cloudflare even has a 100% SLA.
just because it hasn't doesn't mean it won't
17:49
CDNs are supposed to have redundancy so they don't go down
and even if they did
you have like 4 9's
99.9999% uptime
@NathanMerrill The internet relies on CDNs not going down, so no they won't.
do you care if a resource isn't served 0.0001% of the time?"
Reverse proxy CDNs like Cloudflare cannot physically go down, unless their peers are offline. But their peers serve the data centre your server is hosted in. So in the case of this (global) complete internet outage, your server would be down, too.
I'm pretty sure that if something catastrophic enough to take Cloudflare down happened, the statement "Cloudflare is down!" would be of pretty low consequence.
Yeah.
I mean that would mean that more then 50 AS like Hurricane (which in itself is a global ring network - independent of other networks) would be completely down. Since these AS serve all smaller peers, virtually no one would have any internet access.
17:56
well aside from CDNs
it might make sense to have fallback urls
not sure if the usecase is great enough to be in the HTML5 spec though
@Poke You can setup a domain connected to a load-balancing IP (serverless) that selects a fallback. Something has to serve the HTML containing the fallback URLs. That's yet another layer of networking.
@betseg whoa this is awesome
holy shit they even have toasts
this is legit like bootstrap but 10 times awesomer
@mınxomaτ that makes sense
@Poke you good with js?
18:15
is anyone "good" with js
I'm having an interesting problem >_>
getelementbyid isn't working until I inspect it first in chrome
I'm ok with vanilla js but don't try to get at me with all this typescript/angular/bower mumbo jumbo
Hello
@Yodle is the element being loaded on page load
or via ajax
Not back, just for a few mins
18:16
Oh, hmm, it's probably ajax since the table appears after clicking a button without the page reloading
@TheveryevilROFLcopter are you into the group?
@Yodle yeah... that'd do it
@zyabin101 What group?
you are probably trying to get that element before it exists on that page
@TheveryevilROFLcopter zy-guy has popped in once or twice to promote his google group thing
which will probably get him banned if that's all he uses chat for
Well, the element does exist when I'm running the script
18:18
@zyabin101 Oh the Hangouts group
That's not italics
@TheveryevilROFLcopter yup
@Yodle *italic*
@zyabin101 I never use my phone, so I don't see why I should be in ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@TheveryevilROFLcopter thanks :p
18:19
@TheveryevilROFLcopter You can use your PC for Hangouts :)
@Yodle You confirm that with breakpoints or are you just manually running the js
I'm manually running it in the console (otherwise it'd be running through an extension button click so it should be loaded regardless unless the user presses the icon before pressing the buttons to get the element on the page).
But I can clearly see the element is there (a table), but until I right click anywhere on it and do inspect element, getelement doesn't work.
and to confirm you're doing document.getElementById
yep
is something adding the id to the element after the fact
18:23
@Poke Ooh, that's one thing I will hate to experience again. Suspensions don't seem to teach (their claimed purpose), but rather drive the user away from the site and have them choose a competitor.
No idea, I didn't make the site this will be running on.
@zyabin101 Did I say suspension? I meant ban.
@zyabin101 I think you don't understand why you and me have been suspended
Hiya!
How do you folks feel about reference implementations in questions?
@Lynn You changed your avatar?
18:24
@TheveryevilROFLcopter I do.
@Lynn I think there's a meta post on it somewhere. iirc it's fine as long as it's basic and not heavily golfed or something
@Poke In SE terms, it's a suspension.
@zyabin101 From TRB: 'Dennis suspended us because he wanted so'
@Lynn you changed your avatar! <3
Ah! I’ll look for that. Should they be in “readable” languages, I wonder…
(The thing is: TIO exists, and it’s far simpler/sleeker than Ideone, but there are only esolangs on it °v°;)
18:26
@zyabin101 If you're "suspended" for a long enough period you may as well consider it a ban. I don't think it's something worth arguing about, though.
@Lynn If it's ungolfed and supposed to be readable, put it in the question. If it's your own solution to the challenge, put it in an answer. (Or post both versions together in an answer.) But don't post non-competing answers for the purpose of providing a reference solution.
Maybe I could write it in GolfScript? Everyone can read that right? >.>;
It would be totally straightforward; ungolfed and un-clever, just coincidentally in some language that’s on TIO.
Julia is on TIO
18:28
Cheddar then
Ooh, Julia is a nice idea! And Cheddar…
I don’t know either very well, though, hehe
But Julia should be readable
@Yodle going to be a tough one to help with without seeing it, i feel.
@Lynn julia lets you run python
make sure you don't have the hash in your script
18:34
also try inspecting it without clicking inspect element on it. (have the dev tools open already and just find it)
@Lynn What's the challenge?
@Poke Coworker found a workaround, if you open the ajax button in a new tab you get the actual html page with the elements
Guess I'll just have to make my extension a bit bulkier and have them start on the home page and do that all automatically.
was it iframed in or something, @Yodle?
I'd be okay with a reference implementation in that case. Don't think I can help you with choosing a language for it, though
Anonymous
18:36
Do a JS reference implementation in a stack snippet
No idea
well you're looking at the dom :|
scroll up a little and see if the table is in an iframe
if it is
you just have to select the iframe first and get the inner document
then run the select for what you want on that element as you normally would
Eww iframes
this should do the trick stackoverflow.com/a/1088569/6045282
which also happens to be a post from one of my old managers
wtf
Anonymous
iframes are fantastic for the 3 or so things they're meant for and horrible for everything else
18:40
Does not appear to be an iframe
I think it's just that the whole page uses ajax for some reason
@Mego Just like <table>s
3
Q: Randomized Pumpkin Patch

TimmyDI was walking through a pumpkin patch the other day for a birthday party, and noticed the pumpkin vines making a nifty pattern, with whirls, loops, and offshoots. We're going to simulate that here with some ASCII art. (()) \ p--q p-----q / \ / \ (()) ...

Are you sure? remember that an iframe is a whole html document so it'll be something like:

<div>
<iframe>
<html><body><thing you want></body></html>
</iframe>
</div>
i can't format things in chat markdown
stupid idea
1. compile php in emscripten
2. compile imagemagick, libs, etc. in emscripten
3. compile mysql server in emscripten
@Poke all lines have to be intended by 4 spaces
18:51
4. write js tying it all together
5. wordpress completely in browser
6. (my end goal) wordpress on github.io
So every page GET is a 20MB download? Maybe I'm not understanding.
@DmitryKudriavtsev hahaha
@TimmyD well the browser become the server if i'm understanding it correctly
Sounds like it would be terribly slow. :P
@Poke There's nothing with iframe on the page :o
19:09
@El'endiaStarman cool, I'll look at getting braid and antichamber then.
@betseg there's no codeblock for part of a message? it's all or nothing?
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ If not both, then Antichamber definitely.
go both
it's worthbird
@Poke There's inline code, but otherwise, no.
@Poke unfortunately
19:12
wait, you can convert a exponential distribution to a uniform distribution by rooting, right?
awww nvidia still doesnt support wayland :'(
0
Q: How 1.#INF00 comes as output

Lovely_Karn In this printf("℅d",3/0.0) ans is coming 0 . ( How it works can anybody explain me ) And in next printf(""℅f",3/0.0) ans is coming 1.#INF00 ?? #include<studio.h> int main(){ printf("℅d",3/0.0); // ans 0 (how) printf(""℅f",3/0.0);// ans 1.#INF00 getch(); return 0; }

close plz
er, nevermind
0
Q: How 1.#INF00 comes as output

Lovely_Karn In this printf("℅d",3/0.0) ans is coming 0 . ( How it works can anybody explain me ) And in next printf(""℅f",3/0.0) ans is coming 1.#INF00 ?? #include<studio.h> int main(){ printf("℅d",3/0.0); // ans 0 (how) printf(""℅f",3/0.0);// ans 1.#INF00 getch(); return 0; }

@TimmyD @Maltysen the page would be rendered in a full page iframe.
Tfw you find a cool JS feature and think maybe JS is neat after all, just to discover it works only in two major browsers...
19:23
Are there more browsers than that
Sadly, yes.
@El'endiaStarman oh, interesting
looks like $35 together so both is probably doable
As usual, IE/Edge and Safari are the deal breakers.
goddamnit apple
INTERNET! :-)
19:24
:D
welcome to the reign of the living
tfw you need to support ie8
It's for TIO. I won't.
@Poke IE8 is just about sophisticated enough to let you polyfill your way to success.
Except the ES6 language features, like classes and short functions.
Those you can't use... :-(
Hows everyone doing?
I have a guy at work who (for a side-project) literally adds on an IE tax for people that use IE to buy things from the website
it wasn't his idea, but it's a rather interesting idea
19:35
@NathanMerrill I think 5p should be sufficient. Obviously, plus the conversion from pennies to whatever currency you use in your strange corner of the globe.
(The strangeness coming from it being a corner of a globe!)
-3
Q: division of not so little numbers

RosLuPwrite the function print(a,b,c) where a,b,c are 3 integers positive numbers, that print in the standard output a/b with c digit after the decimal point: example print(1,2,1) would print 0.5, print(1,2,2) would print 0.50 ecc Would win the code more short in bytes.

| Would win the code more short in bytes.
wat
Just because English isn't their native language doesn't mean you should make fun. The sentence is understandable even if the structure is a little odd.
10
@TimmyD I've (suggested) edited to re-word; that should quench the stream of click-through down-voters somewhat.
That'd be an interesting challenge idea, reordering words to make more grammatical sense.
Although that might get a bit subjective.
19:53
@NewMainPosts I don't think it's worth the downdoots
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

TimmyDA Triangular Slice of Squared Pi Inspired by Bake a slice of Pi code-golf pi Challenge Given input 3 <= n <= 100 and 3 <= y <= n, construct an n x n matrix of the decimal portion of pi (14159...), starting in the top left. Then, take the upper-right triangle of size y x y and concatenate it t...

@El'endiaStarman Native code would be nice. After all, I managed to spawn reasonably fast, interactive VMs in my browser with it: vimeo.com/181134865
I really should get around to writing my blog post about this.
Doesn't there exist a Windows 98 emulator completely in browser code?
19:57
Probably written in JS.
At least there is a JS port of Qemu: bellard.org/jslinux
Yep, here it is -- copy.sh/v86
3
Q: Square, diamond, square, diamond

LynnTask Given a non-empty string of lowercase ASCII letters a-z, take its first character, and: Surround it with a square of copies of the second character, Surround that with a diamond of copies of the third character, Surround that with a square of copies of the fourth character… …alternating...

@mınxomaτ Proprietary, sadly :/
20:02
Would be neat to see a PNaCl port of DotNET core, so .NET programs could be executed client-side. JSIL is just way to buggy.
Didn't you say you were done with work for the year? ;)
Who now?
@Poke I think I'm finished writing it, just going to have users open the button link in a new tab since this is a very small tool that I'm not even required to write, just thought it'd be a helpful thing for them to have.
Sep 22 at 21:57, by mınxomaτ
Just finished a 23h work day. Finally all business is done for this year.
20:11
Yes.
Work now == software projects and stuff
Would this not qualify as a software project? :P (Or as stuff, for that matter.)
The dotnet thing or what?
23 hour work day only leaves 1 hour to sleep ;-; I'd be dead.
@Yodle My days rarely have 24 hours. If I need to work 24h, I'll sleep min. 8h after that
@mınxomaτ I hope you don't have to work too many of those in one week. Well, at least I start getting dizzy if I don't get enough sleep after a few days, but I guess some people can function on a lot less than I can.
20:16
I sadly get 4-6
Just makes getting up harder
@Yodle As long as work is fun, I don't feel tired. But as soon as I stop, I pretty much drop dead on those days :D
@confusedandamused Ah god, I read that very wrong at first.
Hah I'm not sure how you mis-read it (I just re-read it and didn't mis-read it)
I usually get 6, but 8-10 is what makes me feel best. Although too much sleep can have the same effect.
@mınxomaτ Yes.
@MartinEnder I have to finish alwsl. I've worked on that for at least 4 hours a day the past week.
20:23
Just for the record, it was supposed to be a joke.
I figured
Though I really would like to see that.
@MartinEnder What is your day job currently?
PhD student/research assistant
What is your research focus?
scientific visualisation (specifically, I just started working on a project for visualising turbulent fluids)
20:30
Interesting
Sounds awesome :d
Sigh...third day or boring
@DJMcMayhem Third day or not much going on at work I've just been reading about the C# CLR
I've been waiting for my project to be reviewed by the the other dev but he's been busy
I don't really have anythign else to work on
@confusedandamused Golf something :p
That's too bad
20:38
Yeah something lol
err rather something
Call it "job security"
Yeah but I like working on projects and such and feel like im wasting my time just sitting here
Although I'm still learning stuff
but still
@confusedandamused Work on a personal project then?
Yeah I try to read up on stuff when I don't have anything to work on, like my first few weeks.
@mınxomaτ I would but I currently have no personal project :/ I was recently asked to do a website for a business but I'm not sure what to charge and what they want (I've never done side work before)
20:41
Ask for their budget. But doing design/web work for local business is probably a bad idea.
@confusedandamused My recommendation: don't.
2
Haha. Same thought.
Why's that? I've only considered it because it would be something to work on.
Hah @clientsFromHell
Pretty accurate.
I'd love a side project on my own time though heh just not sure what I'd want to do
20:45
@confusedandamused Some programming languages?
@ASCII-only How do you mean? Learning them or which do I currently use?
Create a language. Make a small game. Write a PNaCl port of DotNET core. Something simple.
6
@confusedandamused Creating one
@MartinEnder is that an enumeration of all possible tasks?
More like an enumeration of potential ideas.
20:48
I've got no idea where to begin for creating a language heh - the rest of those ideas sound un-interesting to me I suppose.
@NathanMerrill Yes. There is nothing else to do. Everything else has already been implemented in every way possible.
Create a language using a PNaCl port of DotNET core, then write a small game in that language.
Now that would be impressive.
@mınxomaτ lol. I was more or less implying if you are aren't making a language, a small game, or a PNaCl port of DotNET core, then its simple
The first issue there is knowing what PNaCl ~is~ lol x.x
20:49
@confusedandamused Same here, the closest I've gotten to creating a language was taking the programming language concepts course at my college.
@confusedandamused A sandbox for native code. I don't recommend to put it in your food, though.
@confusedandamused It's not as hard as it seems. I vaguely remember that two years ago I had a conversation with someone in here where I said that creating a language seems very intimidating and they assured me it's not that tough, and it really turns out that it isn't. Have a look at the interpreters of some simple languages like Brainfuck or Starry to see that there's not a lot to it.
It doesn't need to me a normal language, people here have created plenty of esoteric languages.
Esoteric languages are generally very easy to parse and for 'real' language flex/bison do the work
Or create an esoteric language in Assembly
20:52
There are limits
I think the problem for me would be design choices. I hate having to make choices because I always second guess afterwards and sometimes end up re-doing half of what I've already done. With projects that are given to me, I usually have a rigid set of choices to make for implementation, but if I were designing my own language, I don't have that nice set of 'this is what you need to have.'
You can just open a new channel here for a new language, and discuss with other people about what they think is best
there's also the Esoteric Programming Languages chatroom for when you just want to throw around some ideas
Also in my opinion it's easy making decisions if you set yourself a clear goal and always keep that in mind
20:54
@MartinEnder Are most of the programming languages you're referring to esoteric?
@ASCII-only True, but knowing me I'd probably start changing the goal if I think it could be better down the road :p
@confusedandamused Yes (although I kinda hate that term).
Is it an incorrect term - or why the hate?
Possibly because of the definition of esoteric, you could argue all programming languages are esoteric if you aren't familiar with computers/logic at all.
IDK, but these languages are less esoteric and more golfing-oriented maybe? Most are one of a few kinds of language e.g. stack based
20:57
@confusedandamused No, it's the accepted term but I don't like the connotations associated with "esoteric". It makes it a lot harder to convince people who have never heard of them why they're interesting. Something like "recreational programming languages" would be much more on point and sounds nicer.
Esoteric is broad anyway
For example, someone not experienced with RPN will find Forth esoteric
Someone habitued to 'normal' verbose languages will find APL/J/K esoteric
@ASCII-only This. I think you can learn a lot from game design there. I try to set myself some design goals and an overall theme or "experience" for my programming language, and if you let those inform your design decisions you usually get out a decent result.
It seems many of these languages are stack based as @ASCII-only said
20:59
Because they are simple to implement, tokenize and parse

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