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8:02 PM
Election results are out. Please congratulate our new mods: J.R., Maulik and WendiKidd!
2
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M *unofficial
 
@NathanTuggy What unofficial? It's official alright.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Undo's count, or did you see an announcement I haven't yet?
 
Now my biggest remorse is that the mod team will continue to ignore chat. :(
@NathanTuggy I downloaded election data and ran the election.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Ah. Well, still, that's not exactly official. :P
 
8:04 PM
Hullo @Stoney!
@NathanTuggy Well, it's not gonna change.
 
One certainly supposes not.
 
I wish I couldn't foretell the future as often as I usually could.
Let's congrats the mods!
 
@DamkerngT. Dang it, right?
 
And let the rest of us keep doing what we do.
 
@DamkerngT. Take a look at the starboard.
@DamkerngT. WendiKidd is a she, right?
 
8:09 PM
I saw it in the other room.
Yes.
And because my third speculation was right, I guess that my fourth and fifth speculations will have good chances to be right again.
 
What are they?
That the mods will neglect chat again? :/
 
I'd rather not say.
 
I can make guesses.
 
BTW, sorry for all other candidates.
 
I guess I learned something.... people vote by rep. Pure and simple.
 
8:13 PM
nods -- That's rather--
 
@Catija No, people vote for pro tem crew, and then by rep.
2
There's a difference.
 
I think it'll be good to see some fresh blood in the moderation team.
 
But the election result says a lot of things.
 
At the very least, JR has a couple of extra hands to help him.
 
8:15 PM
And, as always, if I'm the only one around in here, I can still try to raise the alarm upstairs if all hell breaks loose :)
 
But what about chat?
 
Well.
 
@jimsug I think we'll need your help soon.
 
Chem's election taught me how great it is to have a mod in your chat.
 
8:16 PM
@jimsug One more.
 
113 all-time users in chat...
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Rep means nothing.
 
@tchrist yeah, I said couple of extra hands, not pairs of hands ;P
 
@Catija But for many, it means a lot.
 
@Catija Rep means something. It means you asked/answered a lot.
 
8:17 PM
In any case, (in Jeff Probst's voice) "The tribe has spoken."
 
Doesn't necessarily mean you'd make a good mod.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Actually, it just means you were popular.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I doesn't reflect all of the deleted answers you have.
 
@Catija I wonder who has the highest deleted answers ratio on ELL. :-)
 
Whatever, but honestly, one of the chosen ones doesn't have what an ELL mod needs to have.
One of them has been absent and couldn't even answer the questionnaire.
@DamkerngT. Y'know, there's now something in SEDE to search for deleted posts.
 
8:19 PM
Huh? Deleted votes?
Ahh
 
@DamkerngT. I'm a bit distracted. :)
 
Let it go.
 
Let what go? Redox?
 
Whatever distracted you.
 
Well there's a show on TV about how Muslims are tearing each other apart instead of uniting.
Then there's #electionhype.
 
8:21 PM
Aww
 
And then there's this troll-ish guy back at chem.SE.
 
I think the native/non-native speaker identity is not important, as a moderator quality.
 
It indeed isn't.
 
@jimsug And rep points shouldn't have anything to do with it.
 
Once the election is done, the best thing one can do is support whoever won.
 
8:28 PM
Yep.
 
I am as surprised as anyone by how it turned out.
 
I'm actually back to my title FAQ.
 
So, Looks like I was in fourth?
 
Hahaha! My weird name borked STV.
 
@tchrist Really? What'd you expect?
 
8:34 PM
It is hard to separate hope from expect.
 
Fair enough.
 
@DamkerngT. Considering that a huge amount of the mod "score" is rep, SE doesn't agree :( I do... but SE doesn't.
 
I know I didn't even bother to try to work out what I was expecting.
(Other than "J.R. and probably Wendi")
 
I think there were more than three candidates who might have done a good job.
That makes voting harder.
 
Yeah, that's true enough.
I had five or six I thought would work.
 
8:36 PM
@Catija I think I have to say sorry that I didn't vote you. I wonder what if I voted you instead of J.R.
 
@tchrist The problem is that we can chat in here about XYZ but 90% of the votes come from users who barely have any rep and don't know anything about how SE works. I'm not saying we should prevent them from voting but if they're going to ignore everything except for rep and current diamonds, why bother having the rest of the fanfare?
 
Hmm... nothing changed, I guess... 9+7+15+145+7+7+18+15+30+6 = 259
 
@DamkerngT. I actually didn't vote for J.R. Not because I didn't want him to win but I knew he didn't need my vote, so I gave it to people who I thought would be better at the job than others. Regardless, Everyone was significantly behind in the votes from what Maulik got, so it was inevitable.
 
@Catija I wonder how many of us pulled that little stunt. ;)
 
@Catija Come to think of it, I think I should've done the same.
 
8:39 PM
@Catija Same goes here.
I voted for people who reviewed, edited or know more than me.
 
I voted for the people who did the most work.
That didn't seem to work out as well as it should have.
 
@NathanTuggy I'm glad I wasn't alone :D I was afraid to mention anything because I certainly didn't want everyone to do it and lose out on him as a mod.
 
Right. It's a calculated risk, and tragedy of the commons could easily kick in if it was too widely practiced.
@tchrist You'd think....
(Is tragedy of the commons quite the right term here?)
 
LALALALAL - Life is too short for mourning over spilled milk people - Congratulate the new mods and move on.
 
@NathanTuggy It's not a concept I'm familiar with. :(
 
8:43 PM
@NathanTuggy Is that related to Titanic? 'cause that was a tragedy too?
2
A: 2015 Community Moderator Election Results

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.MFirst I'd like to thanks our pro tempore crew for sustaining a fabulous site for learners while their assistance was crucial for the site. WendiKidd, Matt, waiwai933 and especially J.R.. And now . . .  To our new mod crew: J.R.: The monument of moderation and personability, and being fo...

Answer in one minute, boo yeah!
 
Right now, I'll just do my things in LO, and hope that my 4th and 5th speculations won't come true.
 
@Catija yeah, me neither, and for the same reasons.
 
@DamkerngT. Speculate that Earth will blow up.
 
@Catija en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons It's not quite the same thing, but close.
 
Worst case: if nothing changes, then there will be another election.
But probably not for a year.
 
8:46 PM
Huh? I thought that we wouldn't get another election, and mods would be for-life.
Otherwise, I might've run myself.
 
@tchrist Well I'm gonna go and ask in meta; for sure the rationale of the current team will favor leaving a lot of chatty comments alone, and that'd turn ELL into a trainwreck when we get to be ELU's 1/10th.
 
Wait, hold on please.
 
@DamkerngT. A mod can step down any time they like. Similarly, if the site grows and needs additional mods, they will have another election and we do it all again.
 
Is there some reason you want to do something pro-active instead of re-active? Isn't that just asking for trouble?
 
@tchrist What?
 
8:53 PM
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M My interpretation of what he's saying is that you should wait until you start getting a lot of "delete this comment flags" declined or you start seeing a lot of chatty comments not being deleted before you make it an issue in Meta...
 
@Catija I was planning to put it up on meta a week later or so.
 
Chatty comments are one thing. Bad comments (as in wrong answer-comments) are another.
 
Are you trying to get something that is happening now to change, or to not change?
 
Meanwhile, in The Table:
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Blame it on Chatjax!
 
8:56 PM
That's intentional. :)
 
6
Q: 2015 Community Moderator Election Results

Jon EricsonEnglish Language Learners's first moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: They'll be joining (or rejoining) the moderator list shortly — please thank them for volunteering! Please also thank the outgoing Moderators Pro Tempore who ...

 
@tchrist I don't know. I'm not trying to push anything (our MAR is), though I wish to see ELL improved. But this would depend on the mods.
 
@StackExchange You're so slow.
 
Yup. Upvoted already.
 
@tchrist I'm not looking for changes. I'm looking for consensus.
 
9:09 PM
I think I have to beg to differ.
It doesn't depend on the mods. Or shouldn't.
It should depend on the community.
 
Yes, but we have to have posts about it in the meta.
 
ok
Mods aren't supposed to be proactive.
Well, not in stuff like this, especially.
 
No one knows they should flag a closure reason comment as obsolete when an edit has been made to the question.
It's gonna be educational, mostly. :)
 
People should clean up their own comments.
 
BTW @TCh something bothers me;
It basically goes like this:
 
9:11 PM
listening
 
1. I ask in the meta and say "we should do X and Y".
2. Someone nods and answers "This is a great idea."
3. The end
There are a lot of meta posts like this on meta.ELL.
 
Why do you think I voted for people who did the most work?
Didn't get me much.
Please try not to drown your mods in comment flags.
 
I won't.
 
Of course if they are offensive, do so.
 
I know better. I should know better.
Hmm, I now wanna bring real examples (real ELL questions) in my meta FAQ, but
1. I fear the meta effect.
 
9:16 PM
And people will feel targeted.
 
2. After someone goes and edits them, they'd become obsolete.
So what should I do?
 
Could you please show me a couple of examples? Just past the link here.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yep. So many. Nothing ever actually gets done, though... or decided... and the Mods often don't respond to requests... Well... It was only J.R. and I know he didn't want to be the only one deciding things.
 
@Catija That is only natural.
 
1
Q: might vs. might have

athlonusmHere is the sentence from C. S. Lewis' The Magician's Nephew: Down and down they rushed, first through darkness and then through a mass of vague and whirling shapes which might have been almost anything. As far as I know, might refers to the present and future, and might have refers to the ...

Is one good title up there. Cough
At least it has vs. not Vs or vs or a similar variation.
 
9:19 PM
What would you like it to read?
 
@tchrist Yeah, but what's the point of bringing it up in Meta if nothing ever happens because of it and mods don't weigh in?
9
Q: Let's rewrite the "Proofreading" close reason

CatijaIt's been discussed that the proofreading close reason is overused: Stop throwing "Proofreading" close reason at questions that are clearly limited to a single point of concern As part of my answer, I recommended that we consider rephrasing the "Proofreading" close reason so that it's less like...

 
@tchrist 1. It should have quotation marks where it should. 2. It should contain original querent thought about what they're asking.
 
Somebody has to edit nearly every single incoming post.
 
I'm more inclined in 1, as I wanted it as an example of 1.
 
What will a meta post do to make that happen?
 
9:21 PM
@tchrist We tell them you should be writing like this, not like this.
 
@Catija I considered mentioning the CV reason reworks as part of my platform, but I wasn't sure it would make much of a difference, either to the election results or even to mod actions later.
 
Because you will never stop rep=1, and often enough rep=9000, users from posting crappy titles.
 
That'd resolve 20% of the future workload.
 
@tchrist If we can get more established users to make titles better when they see them, we'd be much better off.
 
@tchrist Well we should ban or give a warning to most of the buzzwords.
 
9:22 PM
Spread the load, basically.
 
And TC, I believe even most of our editors dunno how to write a good title.
So a meta FAQ will be useful.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Not really... @tchrist is right, meta posts telling people how to ask well, vote "correctly" etc... they can only help if people read them and, realistically... no one does.
 
You guys have no editors.
Period.
That's its own problem.
 
@Catija The problem exists also because we're not linking to anything.
I'm not saying "let's write good titles".
I'm saying "here's how you write good titles".
 
Nathan does a lot of edits.
 
9:24 PM
Yup.
I've been slowing down, but I'm gonna stand back up.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Linking? No one's going to read a five-page guide on writing good titles. There are already lots of Meta questions about how to write good titles.
 
@tchrist That's one reason I'm sad not to see him in the crew.
 
Moderators tend to do less on a site once elected.
 
@Catija Not any of them relate to ELL's titles.
 
They are busy with things you cannot see.
 
9:25 PM
And most of them are general tips.
"Be creative."
"HOW?!"
 
@tchrist Meh... one of the the M&TV mods edits almost every question that ends up on the site. I don't think that's always true.
 
Instead, I'm saying something less philosophical: "Put the damn quotes in quotation marks sheesh"
@Catija That guy is an exception. :)
Tom has 26 hours in a day.
And never sleeps.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M He'll be "Napoleon" again, soon.
 
The point is, we shouldn't give up this easily about ELL.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Being creative is not really necessary... just be correct about what you're asking for. Click-bait titles are bad.
 
9:27 PM
FWIW, "details please" has found its place among ELLers.
@Catija That was just an example of tips for writing a good title.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Sure... but part of that is because people actively use it all the time... But it seems that at least one mod has no interest in updating the current close reasons so that they're more useful to the people who have their questions put on hold.
 
@Catija We'll see about that . . .
 
It's possible J.R. has been waiting for more community involvement first.
 
Can mods on beta sites feature meta questions? Anyone know?
 
Yes, they can.
is just a mod-only tag. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
9:34 PM
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M So we have all of these important meta questions and none of them have ever been "featured"...
 
@Catija I took a look at M&TV meta; you guyses feature stuff way more than other SEs do.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That's because M&TV is trying to encourage Meta participation.
 
Yup; but ELL doesn't still have any plans that I can tell.
 
Let's wait for a while.
 
No.
Let's finish this title FAQ.
 
9:37 PM
I think J.R. had tried, but he was alone.
 
@DamkerngT. Tried what?
 
@Catija To improve the quality of our posts.
 
I wonder why @Stoney isn't expressing his feelings about the election. :)
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Wisdom.
 
@tchrist Hee
While you're at it, take a look at the best crap ever and decide who gets better crap @TCh:
-1
Q: Can someone who has time to waste do this worksheet

Jake HendrickIf anyone has time please do this worksheet http://www.chemisme.com/uploads/4/7/1/4/4714460/pes_2.pdf?

 
9:53 PM
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Wait... I can get the people on Chemistry to do my homework???
 
Course. Works everywhere else.
 
@Catija How about no?
 
@tchrist Ooooh, maybe Math will do my precal homework for me!
 
@Catija Actually, they do.
Physics is a bit more angry-ish towards HW vampires, but math.SE's first page is almost always cluttered up by homework questions.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M All my homework has answers in the back of the book, anyway... Oh... that's what I was supposed to do today... oops.
 
10:00 PM
@DamkerngT. Thanks for your edit. Looks much better this way. — Arman McHitarian 1 min ago
This is really rewarding.
 
@DamkerngT. Do you know that his name is Iranian?
Anyway, some people are nice people.
 
I can't tell, really.
nods
 
I dunno what that Mc is supposed to be, but whatever.
 
I thought Arman was like Armani. :P
 
Armani is a modifier. Meaning "ideal".
 
10:03 PM
I imagine it's supposed to be Scottish. Or Irish. That's where Mc... and Mac... names come from, generally.
 
It could be a normal last name.
@MrTheWalrus \o
 
@DamkerngT. Yeah... considering that half the time they roll back what you did or start complaining.
 
Hehe! I didn't mean that, though.
 
@Catija Do you want me to show you something interesting?
 
And hello, by the way. Don't mind me, just lurking while working.
 
10:06 PM
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hmm?
@MrTheWalrus Lurk away!... (no relation to "go away")
 
in The Periodic Table, 14 hours ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M
@Mart take a look at http://www.superstructure.info/StackExchange/math/meta/negligent-or-dickish-revi‌​ew-of-suggested-edits.html and http://www.superstructure.info/StackExchange/math/meta/irrational-hatred-towards‌​-typesetting-without-latex-commands-or-the-raising-deg.html to realize who we're dealing with here.
Warning one is NSFW @MrTheWalrus
Almost.
 
Off for the night! Have a good evening everyone!
 
@tchrist Close: prudence.
 
@StoneyB Pretty sure that's not non-overlapping in this instance.
 
10:19 PM
Is it just me, or is gravatar 1000 times slower right now?
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M At the time the word came down it was because I was just leaving work and had errands to do. Now, it's prudence—which (pace @tchrist) may or may not be the wise course of action, but is certainly no less productive than the alternative.
 
I hadn't noticed anything.
 
@StoneyB "Pace"?
 
Heh.
 
@NathanTuggy 'With all due respect to'
 
10:24 PM
I swear gravatar is 1000 times slower for me now.
 
When consciously composing what ANE scholars call Wisdom Literature I revert to the Latinate pomposity of my youth.
 
@StoneyB As my mother used to say, "Learn something new every day!"
 
Pace tuaque.
 
It's hard to go wrong with wisdom literature.
(Unless you don't have any wisdom.)
[I'll be here all week, folks!]
 
It is however easy to be Polonially condescending.
 
10:27 PM
> Admiration, pace tantorum virorum, is a different thing from wonder.
 
@NathanTuggy We're screwed honored.
:)
 
@tchrist You have a genuine command of your Latin; mine is largely restricted to forms that show up in old-fashioned footnotes. But English Renaissance critics (that is, critics flourishing in the Renaissance) took the two terms to be synonymous.
However, wonder/admiratio was a central critical term for them; it has mostly disappeared since the Restoration, and wonder has degraded in sense.
 
Well, the question is the case of the argument to pace. It’s normally pace tanti viri but I found one in the genitive.
> pace /ˈpeɪsiː/, /ˈpɑːkeɪ/, prep.
Etymology: L., abl. sing. of pax peace as used e.g. in phr. pāce tuā by your leave.

By the leave of (a person).

Used chiefly as a courteous or ironical apology for a contradiction or difference of opinion.
1863 Fraser’s Mag. Nov. 662/1 ― Mendelssohn was an artist passionately devoted to his art, who (pâce Dr. Trench) regarded art as virtù.
1883 Standard 1 Sept. 2/2 ― Pace the late Sir George Cornewall Lewis, Mr. Scofield is right.
1911 Chambers’s Jrnl. Nov. 720/1 ― The colour [of fruit]··is a tacit invitation (pace the gardener) to the feast.
I pronounce it the second way. Sorry.
 
Well I zzz. It's been 98 paragraphs already; and I'll finish it after one hour of working on it. Cya folks!
 
Too many words!
 
10:34 PM
I wondered about that. Ida expected pace tibique.
 
Well, it's taking an ablative argument with tuā obviously.
 
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Boil it down to four. After you sleep. That'll only take six or eight hours.
 
Notice it is recent, however.
 
@StoneyB I can boil it down to zero; but where's the fun in that?
 
Like I said, my last contact with Latin texts was in 1963. I'll ask my wife -- she's taking her first stab at the Toronto 1 exam tomorrow.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Cutting copy is one of the sublimest pleasures known to literate man.
 
10:37 PM
I just have smatters left. It has been too long.
Making my way through Latin now is like decoding a puzzle. I guess it always was.
 
I thought that was the point.
 
This looks like genitive is proper. "For your tranquillity", then, not "For tranquillity to you" as I thought.
@NathanTuggy My point is to intimidate clients who think they're educated.
It saves arguments about grammar and punctuation.
 
11:21 PM
Always a fine idea.
It's pace tua because pax is feminine, which accounts for tua, and the whole thing is in the ablative to represent a with or by relationship. I suppose the OED's last citation of pace tantorum virorum means by the peace of so many men.
 
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