ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

09:00

Indeed!

Anonymous

Hmstrs hv pchs tht hld hg amnts f snflwr sds

Anonymous

This should be harder

Damkerng T.

Hamsters have pchs? that hold huge amounts of sunflower seeds.

Anonymous

Oh, almost there!

Damkerng T.

OH, BRB

Anonymous

09:02

The first example should have been near effortless since it was the same as a sentence I had just typed out

Anonymous

Whereas this one is solvable but should require some thought

Damkerng T.

nods

Oh, it's pouches!

Anonymous

Cw hrs lphnt rhn gn zbr ml grff pltps wl dv

Anonymous

This should be slightly harder :-)

Damkerng T.

Much harder, until I realized that it's not really a sentence!

Hmm... gn, ml, wl, dv...

Anonymous

09:06

Because now you can't rely on your knowledge of how English sentences fit together

Damkerng T.

Oh, dove probably.

Still can't figure out the rest three.

Ah, mule.

Anonymous

They're all animals :-)

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Somehow I can't think of gn and wl!

Anonymous

See, now it's more of a puzzle than an exercise in linguistic ability

Damkerng T.

Indeed!

But if there is a language like that and we have to speak/write it that way, we can develop this kind of skill and become better at it, sooner or later.

Anonymous

09:08

Iguana and owl

Damkerng T.

Oh, owl!

How can I miss that?!

Anonymous

Not every orthography contains vowels

Damkerng T.

(Iguana is a fair difficult one.)

nods

Anonymous

We recognize letters in parallel using our knowledge about the language, ruling out unlikely possibilities

Anonymous

I've heard the word nosegay before, but it's not really part of my knowledge of English

Anonymous

09:14

The only thing my brain could fit in there was bouquet

Damkerng T.

Even though it doesn't look like bouquet at all!

Anonymous

So although it seemed a bit odd, that's what my brain came up with

Damkerng T.

(Well, only part of it matches.)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. True! In retrospect

Anonymous

Other phrases like dressed my hair (if I recall correctly—hard to check while I'm typing on my phone) are only vaguely familiar

Damkerng T.

09:16

I bet that if I gave a complete transcription of the first 4 lines. The rest would become much, much easier.

Hmm... I can't find dressed my hair.

I think maybe it's the part my hair dressed.

Anonymous

Can you post the link again

Damkerng T.

> royal.gov.uk/List%20Images/QV%20Education%20project/…

Anonymous

had my hair dressed

Damkerng T.

Yes!

Freddy

@snailboat How many underlined words are there?

Anonymous

09:20

Most of the things that resemble underlines appear to be crossed t's

Anonymous

There are some similarities in the tasks but they aren't directly comparable

Anonymous

Listening works differently in the brain

Anonymous

I only see one underline

Damkerng T.

Also, speech data is basically one dimensional. Handwriting information is two dimensional.

Freddy

@snailboat A big word with b(I can't read that)

Anonymous

09:24

Bridegroom

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I counted two. There is another short underlined word almost directly above the long one.

In the line next to it.

Anonymous

Ah, I guess so

Damkerng T.

I think I'm getting used to her m's now. :-)

Anonymous

I hope never to

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

09:26

I failed cursive when I was young

Freddy

@DamkerngT. You mean something like "larh"

Anonymous

Looked like lush, maybe?

Damkerng T.

Yes, it's last.

Anonymous

Wow

Damkerng T.

Her t at the end of word is special.

Anonymous

09:26

Not everyone has an aptitude for this kind of thing

Anonymous

But everyone can learn to listen

Damkerng T.

There is a word most on the last line as well.

Freddy

@snailboat I have practiced cursive by filling about 2 practice book

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Sure, that works for some people

Freddy

09:28

I was in class 1

Anonymous

Of course, cursive is dead

Damkerng T.

sad

Anonymous

So there's no harm in leaving it in the past

Anonymous

I'm not saying you can't learn it if you want :-)

Anonymous

But it's an unnecessary skill in 2015

Damkerng T.

09:30

@Freddy How many classes will you need to take?

Freddy

@DamkerngT. For what?

Damkerng T.

Or, sorry. I think I should've asked have you taken instead.

Anonymous

And it's a burden on those kids who, like me, have trouble with it

Damkerng T.

@Freddy For cursive practice.

@snailboat Oh, no!

Freddy

I used to practice it at home during summer vacations. I have not taken any classes

Damkerng T.

09:31

I see!

Anonymous

I do love writing!

Anonymous

I write by hand all the time :-)

Damkerng T.

But not in cursive. ;-)

Anonymous

That's true

Anonymous

I know how to write my name in cursive, more or less

Damkerng T.

09:33

Cursive says, try me sometimes...

:D

Anonymous

I did try to learn but it was very difficult

Anonymous

I had already taught myself to write before I started school and I was comfortable with how I made letters

Anonymous

So I failed! :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, no!

Anonymous

That's okay. Language is a universal, innate ability we all share

Anonymous

09:36

Cursive is not

Anonymous

I could learn it.

Damkerng T.

I'm pretty sure you can learn it if you really want to.

Anonymous

But I'd rather not put in the time and effort

Damkerng T.

I mean, cursive looks simpler than Japanese characters!

nods

Anonymous

Learning as an adult would be different from learning as a child, anyway

Anonymous

09:38

Our brains are very different as adults

Damkerng T.

True!

Anonymous

Have you ever trained yourself to write with your other hand?

Anonymous

You can do it if you want

Anonymous

I don't recommend it, of course

Damkerng T.

I've tried but never really trained it. It was kinda fun.

I had to, because I couldn't use my right arm at that time. :D

Freddy

09:40

I have tried but it is boring after some time to practice with other hand

Anonymous

It is, but it takes a lot more effort to get good at it

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Making children write with their non-dominant hand is bad for them

Damkerng T.

Agreed.

Anonymous

To write cursive, I have to redo all of my letters backwards

Anonymous

09:43

I write my letters from the bottom right and spiral outward

Freddy

Whichever thumb child licks in womb for first time is his/her dominant hand

Damkerng T.

Interesting!

That, too!

Anonymous

It works fine for me

Anonymous

But cursive requires me to retrain myself to do everything the opposite way and it's very hard for me

Damkerng T.

I'm trying it...

How would you write a p?

Anonymous

09:45

After years of owning a Palm Pilot I was never able to retrain my writing to go in the direction it wanted

Anonymous

I tried...

Damkerng T.

Oh, it fixed the direction, I think.

Anonymous

Oh, p actually starts at the bottom left, so that one should be okay :-)

Anonymous

My letters generally start at the bottom

Anonymous

Letters like x start at the right

Anonymous

09:47

Or numerals like 8

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I'm trying to write like you do. I wrote an e and I thought I did it the wrong way, but when I looked at it again, it was correct! Isn't that funny? :-)

Anonymous

8 starts at the bottom right and goes clockwise

Anonymous

e is one of the ones I learned to write both ways

Anonymous

I was able to relearn s, too

Damkerng T.

Maybe because we all have to write s, z, and 2.

Anonymous

09:49

2 starts from the bottom right for me still :-)

Anonymous

Z too

Damkerng T.

Ah!

Oh, and 5 too!

These four look very similar to one another.

s, z, 2, 5

Anonymous

When I was little my handwriting was pointy and z and 2 looked the same

Anonymous

It wasn't round and cute

Anonymous

I learned to round my 2's and cross my Z's though :-)

Damkerng T.

09:52

Ah, you cross you Z's. My Z is, hmm... how many ways do I write my Z's?

Anonymous

I've tried to relearn my handwriting a number of times

Anonymous

It's difficult, though, y'know?

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

I can write small caps very neatly :-)

Anonymous

The cursive letter I'm best at is 's'

Damkerng T.

09:54

small caps by snailboat <-- like this? :-)

Anonymous

It's a little shark!

Damkerng T.

Oh, s is not my strong suit!

Anonymous

Shark fin

Anonymous

I can really write very neatly now if I slow down

Damkerng T.

@snailboat A bit like in our handwritten sample, perhaps?

@snailboat Yay!

Anonymous

09:56

The s's in the image you linked look weird to me

Anonymous

I'd probably have an easier time reading cursive if I could write it

Damkerng T.

Her k's are also quite something.

(Like in the rough sketch, line 9)

user116848

hello.

Freddy

@Arrowfar hola

user116848

@Freddy hola

Freddy

10:03

@MingjieLi hola

user116848

So

user116848

May sucks!

Freddy

yup too hot

user116848

Yeah the temperatures are sky rocketing here.

user116848

I always go crazy in summers.

user116848

10:06

And pull myself together in July.

user116848

(kidding)

Freddy

I like summer due to MANGO

user116848

Yup. Mangoes are the best.

user116848

10:25

I watched the first four episodes of Game of Thrones.

user116848

Waiting for other six.

user116848

They make ten in total I think.

Freddy

5th is out!

i have seen it

today

@Arrowfar Spoiler alert

user116848

@Freddy Yes I heard. But I'll wait for one or two more!

Freddy

Be careful of spoilers

user116848

10:27

I like to watch it all at once. I mean I hate cliff hangers :-)

user116848

@Freddy yeah, that is true.

user116848

They always end the episode with some crazy twist etc. I love it!

Freddy

@Arrowfar not always

Which is your favourite character alive?

user116848

I like Snow (John Snow).

user116848

Yours?

user116848

10:36

I mean among male actors.

Freddy

Tyrion

john knows nothing

user116848

John knows nothing :-)

user116848

> You know nothing John Snow

user116848

Cool line, I love it when the red-headed says.

Freddy

Can Birds Actually Deliver Messages?

►

I love part exactly before redhead say that :p

user116848

10:41

Too bad they killed the red-headed girl.

Freddy

what? which red head?

user116848

John Snow's girl.

user116848

But she was kinda... can't find the suitable word, um... slutty.

Freddy

ohh okay northern wildling

user116848

Yeah the wildling.

Freddy

10:45

I thought that red-head witch with stannis

user116848

Yeah that's another, lol.

Freddy

I wanted to watch Bryan part

user116848

@Freddy But that one is very evil. With all the magic and all. E-v-i-l.

Freddy

yes but you know whenever she...

user116848

You mean Brienne of Tarth?

user116848

10:47

The 7 foot girl. She is kinda cool.

user116848

But it looks like she is always crying.

user116848

I like her character though.

Freddy

No i mean Bran Stark

cripple

he will not come in this season

user116848

I see, him.

Freddy

Hodor

user116848

10:50

There is a whole GOT wiki: gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Brienne_of_Tarth

user116848

@Freddy Hodor, hodor!

user116848

Funny guy.

user116848

Kinda duh!

Freddy

@snailboat Do you watch game of thrones?

Anonymous

No

Freddy

10:52

What It’s Like To Not Watch 'Game Of Thrones'

►

Anonymous

I think it's probably a bit too unpleasant for me

Freddy

12:13

@snailboat Sorry for that

but you should definitely watch GoT

Anonymous

12:26

No thank you :-)

Fantasier

13:17

Dothraki is interesting though, linguistically :A)

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Like Klingon, Elvish, Na'vi, Leeloo's, Zachry's, and Newspeak? :-)

Fantasier

Yeah.

Damkerng T.

I haven't had a Furby, but I heard that they had their own language, too!

Fantasier

But my favourite conlangs so far are Ithkuil and Lojban.

Damkerng T.

I haven't heard Ithkuil.

I sometimes wonder... why not Thai. :P

Fantasier

13:27

Hmmm.. what do you mean?

Damkerng T.

I mean, at the core of Thai, it's a very simple and straightforward language. Should be relatively easy to learn for almost everyone.

Fantasier

You mean at the core of any highly analytic language :-)

Damkerng T.

I think it'd be a bit like Thai-Lao-Tai-Indo-china in a mix.

Yep!

No tense, no inflection, no modal, no article, no countability, etc.

Everything droppable is droppable. :P

Fantasier

But (usually) yes tone, yes modal marker, yes tense marker, yes particles etc

So I'm not quite sure :P

Damkerng T.

All are optional.

Fantasier

13:30

You have to make up for what's lost.

Damkerng T.

Tones? Do we really absolutely need them?

farang-pood-tai-kon-thai-kao-jai-chai-mai?

Fantasier

Well, yes.

Damkerng T.

:D

Fantasier

But I'm not sure the rest are optional.

How do you express modality without modal markers?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I bet that we can get rid of almost all of ja and kamlang.

Okay, what are the modal markers you have in mind?

Fantasier

13:33

ควร?

ต้อง

Damkerng T.

Good point. But isn't it just a word?

I believe that we perhaps didn't have both of them 700 years ago.

Fantasier

Not so sure about that haha.

Let me see.

Damkerng T.

Maybe we can get by with just one of them.

Fantasier

How old is เตภูมิกถา?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... maybe less than 700yo.

Fantasier

13:34

It's พญาลิไท

Let's see

Damkerng T.

But should be from around the same time.

พ.ศ. 1888

Fantasier

You're right. Less than 700 yo.

But it's the oldest literature I have with myself (for the finals :O), so.

Damkerng T.

:D

Okay, so let's see, do have both of them in it?

Hmm... ภูมิ must be from Pali-Sanskrit

But we'd already had words like อรัญญิก อัจนะ สูพรรณภูมิ on ศิลาจารึก.

Gowtham

herro

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Besides the cabin can be used for Japanese, we use the cabin for other languages such as Thai sometimes. :-)

@Gowtham Harro!

Fantasier

13:42

Noooo

I just realised I made a mistake in my exam :'(

Damkerng T.

Eh?

Anonymous

Expressions of modality tend to appear gradually, grammaticalized from lexical forms

Damkerng T.

nods -- I'm not sure about Thai etymology, though.

Fantasier

We had จึง (at that time จิง)

Damkerng T.

Yes, จึง!

Fantasier

13:44

and จะ

Damkerng T.

Oh, จะ too?

Fantasier

Yes

Damkerng T.

nods

Fantasier

Ha

I found ควร!

Damkerng T.

Where? -- excited!

Fantasier

13:46

"อันหนึ่งคือว่าทรัพย์สินท่าน อันเจ้าของเขามิได้แก่ตน ชาวเจ้าอย่าควรเอาอันหนึ่ง ตนมิได้เอา แลใช้ให้ผู้อื่นเอาก็ดี มิควรใช้ให้ผู้อื่นเอาเลย"

Damkerng T.

Neat!

Oh, ศิลาจารึก has จัก and จึ่ง too.

Fantasier

What's the other one? ต้อง?'

Damkerng T.

I think the old sense of ต้อง is more like โดน.

Fantasier

Oh, yeah.

We had got to examine it in an exercise given in Introduction to Language.

A moment.

Damkerng T.

Ah, a related word: ย่อม

Hmm... but it was used more like ย้อม. Maybe the tone was shifted.

Anonymous

13:51

Interesting use of will in the last panel here: dumbingofage.com

Fantasier

Hmm... how do I post a PDF here?

Damkerng T.

Maybe upload it to Dropbox or Google Drive and post a link to it.

@snailboat Oh, it's not would, it's 'll!

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. drive.google.com/file/d/0B2Hp2Y4BMxdwdUdQMk53cEJ4ZVU/…

It's the answer key for an exercise we did. Quite hard :\ Imagine being given a bunch of old poems and struggling to grasp the meanings and the semantic changes.

The course's title was Introduction to Language, but it's no introduction :-P

Damkerng T.

nods -- When was ตำรับท้าวศรีจุฬาลักษณ์ written again?

@Fantasier For a BA, I think it would be an introduction. :P

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Well, I think the point is, we have too little time, too much to understand, and too few practices.

Damkerng T.

13:59

Oh, สมัย ก -> สมัย ข!

@Fantasier nods

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. First believed to be Sukhothai, but at a closer look it's more likely Rattanakosin

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