The Whiteboard

Francisco Noriega

04:00

@Ami yeah, I'm also starting my tiny company

still Moonlighting but hopefully not for long

Chris

I written some of my best code listing to "the perfect drug" by "NiN" pounding in my ears. It's ironic really, the perfect drug

Francisco Noriega

the movie motivated me to keep working harder :P

Ami

@FranciscoNoriega I'm still in school...that means my grades have dropped

rchern

Hmm. That didn't net me too many ideas. ): Hehe.

Chris

wasn't that the same guy from Zombieland in the poster?

Ami

04:01

@FranciscoNoriega it also scared me...money makes assholes of people

Rakshit Pai

I kinda feel bad for the twins in The Social Network

Seemed like nice guys (atleast in the movie)

Chris

@JoelSpolsky do you think we'll see mainstream touch applications show up before Apple releases a touch iMac? Or are we going to see the same with the iPhone, people will see the value if Steve holds their hands?

Joel Spolsky

are you kidding? any twin who is still joined at the hip with his brother at that age...

Ami

I got into programming because I had ideas that I wanted to implement, not the other way around

Francisco Noriega

@RakshitPai yeah... but still they got their mils over the ones they already owned... not too bad

Rakshit Pai

04:03

Was Shawn Parker really a dick?

Chris

@Ami I got into programming because I was shown how to format a 3.5 floppy on a Mac LC2 in elementary and I thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen!

Francisco Noriega

@rchern well web-dev "themed" presents does sound kind of hard...

Ami

"Everyone" has ideas. Good design and implementation is worth much much more.

Francisco Noriega

@Ami exactly

Ryan Hayes

@Chris Dude, that WAS cool back in the day.

Francisco Noriega

04:05

waay back in the day

Chris

@Ryan seriously when I tell the story, I get really excited and chocked up and animated. People think I'm nuts

Francisco Noriega

Any body else got into programming because of wanting to do videogames?

rchern

@FranciscoNoriega Doesn't need to be web-dev. Just a group of my co-workers. In the past I've given small individual gifts to each person,, but this year I thought I'd do one gift because they're moving into new office space with a bit more room and the pool table got denied. Thought a fun gift might work. shrugs

Chris

@FranciscoNoriega I know tons of people who did it as a way to make a quick buck. They promptly left

Ryan Hayes

@FranciscoNoriega Yep, then I found out how much it paid. :-/

Francisco Noriega

04:06

@rchern a build server.. xD jk

rchern

yeah...no!

Francisco Noriega

@RyanHayes that didnt really stopped I just when I realize I was in love with the idea of programming games but sucked at actually doing them (all the physics, high-level math AI, etc)

Chris

I did one of those aptitude tests and I had a large disposition for engineering, my parents encouraged it

anyone own a windows phone 7 in here?

Francisco Noriega

I knew I wanted to be a programmer since I was like 10 or 12 though.. starting learning with a newstand "teach yourself programming" weekly magazine at about 14

Ami

I'm a physics major. Physics + programming is a lot of fun.

jschroedl

04:08

@FranciscoNoriega Close..I wanted to write a program to manage AD&D games. Thats what nerds did in 1983

Rakshit Pai

@FranciscoNoriega I fell in love with programming as it was something that was intensely personal. I enjoy the process of coming up with a problem and then working on a solution - all in my head

Ryan Hayes

@Chris My favorite part was making banners for EVERYONE's parties...birthdays...superbowls...on those big roller printers where the paper was attached. Good times.

Chris

@RyanHayes oh!!! what was that corel software called?

Ryan Hayes

Corel Draw?

jschroedl

@RakshitPai Sounds like you'd like projecteuler.net

Chris

04:09

@RyanHayes I think so

@RyanHayes or install Office 4.2 from floppies

@JoelSpolsky which version of Excel did you work on?

Francisco Noriega

yeah programming is awesome its kind of addictive, who hasnt cursed at the screen for a while and later raise your arms in the air for success with a "YEAH!"

haha thats an awesome moment

Ami

@RakshitPai or chessgames.com

Joel Spolsky

@Chris versions 4 and 5.

Francisco Noriega

"Take that f**king bug!"

Chris

@FranciscoNoriega or dereferencing a null pointer when you're drunk and staring at an "access violation" and wondering why you have a Message Box on your screen

Ryan Hayes

04:11

I had an old 286 NEC computer when I was about 6 and had to play Wolfenstein off the floppy because there wasn't enough hard drive space to install it. :-/

Rakshit Pai

@FranciscoNoriega love to hear and talk about late night coding war stories

Chris

@JoelSpolsky do you think the Office team will ever fully embrace .NET? or is there just too much code?

Rakshit Pai

Thanks to @Joel and Jeff, we now have a place to meet like minded people & talk about it

Francisco Noriega

@Chris I dont think ive actually ever programmed while drunk... haha kind of felt like it after watching the facebook movie xD (i know lame!) xD

jschroedl

My opinion: no way -- too much native code there and it works. They may fire up an appdomain to host plugins but beyond that I doubt office would go .net.

Rakshit Pai

04:12

"meet" in the virtual sense

Chris

I often wonder why .NET wrappers were never developed by the team for talking to the Compound Document formats without the need for Office. Perhaps they were told not too?

Joel Spolsky

boy, I remember when the MFC team tried to get Excel to switch to C++. It still hasn't happened, of course. (It's all C)

Chris

@FranciscoNoriega I was actually a member of EE at one point, then SO started, never looked back

Joel Spolsky

The MFC guys were shocked -- shocked -- that the Excel developers didn't see the value of throwing away all their code and rewriting it in their exciting new C++ framework which they just invented 15 minutes before

jschroedl

Mike Blaszczak failed! Buy me a hockey team, thanks in advance.

Chris

04:14

@JoelSpolsky really? wow that's incredible, my boss is convinced the Office team has their own compilers. Or rather, they wrote their own stuff. I actually think it's entertaining that MFC got a ribbon by MS licensing a ribbon from a third party (BCGSoft), they don't use the native office ribbon

Ami

@JoelSpolsky how much code are we talking?

Francisco Noriega

oh man just accidentally deleted a message when trying to edit... @JoelSpolsky any way to un-delete?

Joel Spolsky

did you try the down arrow menu and choose "history"

Rakshit Pai

@FranciscoNoriega I guess it is one of the features that was not put in, didn't you read "Getting Real" by 37 Signals - Less features is good!! :)

Francisco Noriega

@Chris I also had an account! I wasn't active in the community though.. and I created the account way back when it was free, so I never paid a thing for it and can still log in to see the answers.. not that I would.. not since SO started

@Chris... haha yeah but having a delete that doesnt ask for confirmation or offers an undo right next to an edit button........

Joel Spolsky

04:17

oh come on, it's just chat. it's not the congressional record

Francisco Noriega

hahaha

Chris

@FranciscoNoriega me too! I also have a free account

@JoelSpolsky funny

Francisco Noriega

@JoelSpolsky but I did feel a very tiny greef for losing my clever writting haha (hey I put an effort in this, its not my native language! haha)

Rakshit Pai

One more day to go for Tron release

jschroedl

thanks for the tweet re: chat - nite all

Dan Grossman

04:20

Do you really want everything you write to be preserved by Google so that it can be used against you for all time?

Francisco Noriega

@RakshitPai... I still have a few months of waiting left..

Dan Grossman

Accidental deletes were your subconscious protecting you.

Francisco Noriega

:(

Joel Spolsky

@dan the idea is to write so much you flood the internet with good stuff; nobody can ever FIND any of the stupid things you say or do

Chris

@JoelSpolsky well if they are using C for Office, it's quite impressive what they've done with it! Kudos to them

Francisco Noriega

04:22

@Dan No, accidental deletes are stiff cold fingers+touchpad :P

Joel Spolsky

it's almost certainly the same code laying out paragraphs in Word that was written by Simonyi in the 1980s

with lots of tweaks, of course

Chris

@JoelSpolsky do you think a lot of the original team is there? I wonder how many folks work on it. As you can tell, I deal with Office A LOT in my day to day work

Rakshit Pai

@JoelSpolsky Taking about Simonyi, Your making "wrong code look wrong" was a great post - joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html

It is the first time where i could really see the usefulness of using coding conventions to catch bugs

Dan Grossman

The day the USDOJ told Microsoft it needed to release interoperability specifications for .doc would be the day I'd leave that team.

yesraaj

@JoelSpolsky When was the last time you actually coded ?

Chris

04:24

@DanGrossman you know what's even better, seeing the error messages from COM, some of them mention VB6 in their errors

Ami

Just realized that youtube hasn't been updating my home page feed and I am way behind on tedtalks.

Joel Spolsky

@yesraaj you will have to read the transcript, i already answered that one

Chris

how do we download the transcript?

Dan Grossman

VB6? That's modern compared to some of the things they do... like C structs dumped straight into the file.

Joel Spolsky

there's a "roomV" menu in the top right

Dan Grossman

04:26

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/21

Chris

@DanGrossman my absolute favourite part of Office COM interop is when I found methods called "Dummy1" through "Dummy15" in the online documentation. I honestly couldn't believe it

@JoelSpolsky I see thanks!

enough ragging on Office, it's probably the most installed piece of software on Windows besides the browser

Dan Grossman

But the browser comes with it

Chris

@DanGrossman true

Dan Grossman

Paint, Notepad, Calculator, etc. have more installs since nobody tries to remove them

Solitaire is the most used program on the entire Windows platform

Chris

I remember telling my boss that if you had to automate SQL Management Studio to add a table to a SQL Server database, you'd use a different database.. but for some reason, it's the norm with Office

@DanGrossman do you use solitaire every day?

Dan Grossman

04:30

I don't ever use solitaire

Chris

HAHA!

Dan Grossman

slate.com/id/2191295/pagenum/all

Chris

Also, I really wonder why Ray Ozzie quit

Dan Grossman

> But the poor, benighted game is also—according to a Microsoft employee who worked on reprogramming it for Windows Vista—the most-used program in the Windows universe.

Chris

nice, quoting the wikipedia?

Dan Grossman

04:32

...no, quoting the Slate article I just linked

Chris

was Chris Sells the guy who rewrote it for Vista?

Dan Grossman

channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/TheChannel9Team/…

Chris

I love the title

I could watch it, but is Solitaire still C++ in Vista and 7? or is it WPF now?

good lord, did I scare everyone away?

Ami

@JoelSpolsky what kind of advice, "lets meetup," fan-mail volume do you get?

Dan Grossman

Is Joel some kind of celebrity?

Do programmers have celebrities?

Ami

04:35

we're about to find out

Dan Grossman

I need a snuggie, i've got the keyboard under my blanket with me with the screen sticking out

yesraaj

@JoelSpolsky OOPs I'm not able to find there are too many conversation sounds like you are very right with the following statement;"the idea is to write so much you flood the internet with good stuff; nobody can ever FIND any of the stupid things you say or do"

Chris

@JoelSpolsky is like @JonSkeet.... he's a rockstar in his own right. It would be no different it was Scott Hanselman in here in stead of Joel, just different types of questions

@DanGrossman I'm refraining from making fun of you

Dan Grossman

Good, you should.

Chris

@DanGrossman for snuggie comment really... I have one

@DanGrossman what do you mean?

Dan Grossman

04:38

I can easily find professionally embarrassing conversations from chat. Just look through the thousands of starred comments on SO and MSO taverns.

Permanently linked to these peoples identities

very unlike IRC or any other chat where everything is transient

Chris

@DanGrossman ACK! you know who I am.... nervous

Dan Grossman

The web can be kinda creepy.

Chris

that was rude, or shall I say shocking

Joel Spolsky

Yeah. CHRIS GET OVER HERE AND WALK MY DOG

Dan Grossman

You only saw your own IP

Joel Spolsky

04:40

Oh wait

Chris

haha I'm kidding, I'm more interesting in how you found out, not that you did

Joel Spolsky

I thought you were saying Chris was in New York.

:P

Dan Grossman

No, it was just a script that draws your IP on an image, and uses MaxMind's free IP-to-location database to draw your city on it too

Joel Spolsky

the point is he didn't find out. he put up an image

it's kinda like putting a little mirror in the chat room

Chris

I don't follow

rchern

04:41

You're not getting out of walking the dog. (;

Chris

so much for this being anonymous

Joel Spolsky

HOT SINGLES IN NEW DELHI ARE WAITING FOR YOU NOW!

Chris

i'm in a relationship thanks

I would walk your dog if you asked... i'm that nice

Dan Grossman

Chris

yes, but where in the window do you find the "location person" link?

Francisco Noriega

04:43

Ha got a little WTF because of the IP too, but not too scared.. its not my IP.. the ISP's one

Dan Grossman

XKCD knows all your IP addresses now! OMG.

Francisco Noriega

and @DanGrossman thanks for the MaxMind's free ip tip, you just saved me an SO question I was about to do :)

Chris

I feel like I'm at hypnosis show and I just woke up and say the tape!

Dan Grossman

Cool. "GeoLite City" is your search term for the free version.

Chris

@DanGrossman yes, but that doesn't answer the question, "user name to IP " button

Dan Grossman

04:45

That requires a little social engineering to do, as of yet

"So, where's everyone live?" followed by posting any image hosted on your server. Correlate access log to chat.

Chris

tabernack

maybe i'm just not one of those, "smart and gets things done" people

Dan Grossman

I'd look it up but I turned off access logs on that server, actually :P

Chris

you work at SO?

Dan Grossman

No, but I posted an image in chat while you were here...

you loaded that image from my server, so your IP would be in my access log

I'm used to thinking about extracting the maximum available information from HTTP requests. I run a large web stats service.

Chris

I take it back, it wasn't rude, that was my shock talking.. is this you dangrossman.info

Dan Grossman

04:49

Yes, that's me

Chris

you have a nice site

and blog and portfolio, makes me feel unaccomplished

Dan Grossman

Thanks

Now I definitely know your IP

Chris

you want to go for coffee or something?

Dan Grossman

Chrome 8, Windows 7

viewed 8 page so far

Chris

do you want my blood type too?

Dan Grossman

04:51

No thanks :p

Chris

yea, does anyone out there still use IE, or should that team just stop working?

Dan Grossman

w3counter.com/trends will answer that for you

Chris

too late to decide if I want to open that page

anyone else alive???

Dan Grossman

I may have scared everyone off with the talk of hurting their careers through chat transcripts and IP logging.

Chris

anyone who has a FB profile already gave that up

I must say, looking at your site, which is nice, I'm so not a CSS person

Dan Grossman

04:57

It's a really barebones blocky design, I'm not very creative

just squares with some borders

Chris

I tried to learn CSS once, I ran screaming from the room (this was back when IE7 was a standard)

reminds me of 37signals

I think it's creative. there are people who get design and people who don't. I'm the guy who tries

actually the one thing I'd love is that dyson bladeless fan dyson.com/fans

Ryan Hayes

@Chris IE9 looks to be on a better track, but it's really only fast because of the hardware acceleration for HTML5 graphics. IE's dev tools just suck though compared to Chrome's.

David Pokluda

I am using IE9. It actually seems like a pretty good browser. I would like to see a more modern add-on API (COM is not modern in my opinion).

Dan Grossman

@Chris I was impressed by those until I actually saw one running

Francisco Noriega

@Chris wow once again, its the same with me.. I suck at CSS and making plain html turn into columns, boxes, etc :(

Chris

05:00

@RyanHayes it makes me wonder if Silverlight wasn't also created so people would stop writing ActiveX controls

Brian R. Bondy

IE has its own separate developer tools download

Dan Grossman

when I realized it was just a small fan blowing air into the ring, and not something high tech, I was no longer willing to pay some huge amount of money for it

Chris

@BrianRBondy the fact you NEED to download it bothers me

Francisco Noriega

actually is there any good tutorials to do that? Teaching html/css for programmers who have been always developing desk/backend apps?

Brian R. Bondy

agree I love how good the built in tools are for Chrome

Chris

05:01

COM is never going away, it's unfortunate really, but it's large part of Windows

Dan Grossman

it'll go away when Windows development goes away

Ryan Hayes

@BrianRBondy They're integrated into IE9. It's also got a network traffic analyzer like fiddler, but filters out everything else, leaving only the traffic relevant to the page in question. It's pretty nice.

Chris

@DanGrossman umm... sure... maybe when they write the OS in Silverlight

Dan Grossman

No, when people stop caring about desktop apps.

Brian R. Bondy

@Ryan ah nice, I have IE9 downloaded, but haven't really used it

Ryan Hayes

05:03

@BrianRBondy Yea, Chrome and FF betas feel more polished for sure, but IE9 (from a dev's perspective) has a lot of improvements.

Dan Grossman

Fewer and fewer people need that kind of power anymore. They just need a browser and a couple widgets.

Francisco Noriega

@Chris well Bugzilla is a seperate download and you cant deny it is pure joy :)

Chris

My issue with IE is the way it switches tabs. I use chrome because I'm a perceptual CTRL+Click user. I have tons of tabs open, and Chrome has never let me down

@FranciscoNoriega true, we use OnTime and PlasticSCM where I work

Brian R. Bondy

I just purchased a Samsung Galaxy Tablet and asked the sales clerk how WP7 phones were selling, he said they only sold 10 total since they came out.

Dan Grossman

Chrome fails pretty often. It just doen't make much of an impact because you recover so easily. If a single tab crashes, you just reload to fix it. If a whole process crashes, you restore the whole thing at once.

Chris

05:04

@BrianRBondy yea, I heard a rogers commercial yesterday that touted the latest phones, not one mention of Windows Phone 7, I called head office and complained

Ryan Hayes

The bad thing is that since ie's dev tools have traditionally been sub-par, most of the dev work is done testing for firefox because it has firebug. Then, IE is tested for last, which is the browser that has to be tailored to the most.

Chacha102

Hello

Chris

@RyanHayes don't forget, IE was created, then five years past between versions 6 and 7

Brian R. Bondy

By the way, making extensions on chrome is so much easier and more friendly than on FF and IE

Dan Grossman

I wish there were a single chat room for SE geeks. I have to switch between here, the SO tavern, the MSO tavern, and the SO javascript room depending on the hour of day.

5

Chris

05:06

@DanGrossman isn't that what twitter is for?

Dan Grossman

Twitter isn't chat

Twitter is like a million radio broadcast towers... beaming out your signal and hoping someone else might be listening

Brian R. Bondy

@Dan sounds like you need a "chat set" like the "tag sets"

Chris

@DanGrossman I take it your not a fan?

Dan Grossman

I use Twitter, but it's no replacement for the interactivity of a chat room

Chris

fair enough

Dan Grossman

05:09

Chris

I wish they change "ADO.NET Data Services" or is it now "WCF Data Services" back to Astoria

they should leave code names as the product name

Dan Grossman

They'd have way too many trademarks to enforce, then.

microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/…

Chris

good lord that's a long list

Francisco Noriega

yeah the chat is pretty cool...although to be honest I think I hadn't use chat rooms and actually chat with people for over 10 years, when the whole chat rooms thing boomed (well at least in mexico it was about 10-15 years ago, with "LatinChat") :P

Chris

the last time I chatted with humans it was on dualboot.net

Dan Grossman

05:13

Netsplit

In computer networking, specifically Internet Relay Chat (IRC), netsplit is a term used to describe the disconnection of a given node from the previously established network or between two nodes. As an IRC network is an undirected acyclic graph, a split between any two nodes splits the entire network into two pieces. Consider the graphic to the right, which represents the computer network. Each line represents an established connection between the two nodes; each node represents either a server or a user on the network. Therefore, the server C is connected directly to A, which is also ...

Francisco Noriega

nah, to young to use IRC haha I think i've never actually used it.. but I still hear people (on the internet) talking about it :P

Dan Grossman

It's still the front line support channel for new programming languages, frameworks and platforms. Outside the Microsoft world, at least.

If you haven't used it recently, you're not trying enough bleeding edge stuff ;)

Carson Myers

Is anyone here an ASP.NET developer?

Francisco Noriega

Yes if you count MVC

but mostly backend... html/css... not my thing (though i'd like it to be)

@DanGrossman isnt SO the fornt support channel for programming?

Dan Grossman

Not for new technologies where the developers are the only good source of knowledge other than reading the code

NoSQL engines, node.js, esoteric languages, etc.

you go to the IRC channel the developers use

If SO is helping you with obscure problems, whatever you're asking about is already mainstream

Francisco Noriega

05:28

hehe that last remark reminded me of this shirt

Dan Grossman

:agree:

it's true though... when I was writing a server on node.js, the APIs were changing while I was programming so I'd have to rewrite by the next day... when I was building an app using MongoDB as its data store, I had to recompile the DB driver for my language myself because I had to fix bugs in it to get it to work

SO wouldn't be any help to me there

Francisco Noriega

true

in a way its so overwhelming to keep up with so many new things

and I am the kind of guy that really likes to try out new things

Dan Grossman

Read news.ycombinator.com daily or hackermonthly.com monthly

Francisco Noriega

but I guess not that new... I wait till there is a .net wrapper or something.. perhaps I am too comfortable with .net/ c#

Dan Grossman

Where else will you find "Thinking in Clojure for Java Programmers"?

Francisco Noriega

05:31

and I use mostly .net techs (try lots of beta/ctp.. but mostly MS's)

Dan Grossman

you're a microsoft developer, and you'll always be half a decade behind the times by living in their world

great for working at a cost center in a non-software business, or as an expensive consultant... just don't move to california or northwest washington

I did a 6 month internship working as a software developer at Microsoft in Redmond... nope, no thanks :/

Francisco Noriega

I'm from Mexico so no worries about that ;) but yeah.. sometimes I feel like learning new stuff, but man I've grown so used to the great IDE tools (intellisense!) that it feels like a chore to do stuff in notepad-esque/command promp IDEs :/

(and by the way.. thanks for the link! I now have like ten more tabs open with articles that need to be read hahaha)

Dan Grossman

Believe it or not, the rest of the programming world has IDEs with code completion too.

Francisco Noriega

After looking at your portfolio I do respect you Dan, tons of finished products! So, what languages/projects do you thing are worth looking at/ learning for someone that has been in the MS-sphere for the last 4-5 years?

Bruce Li

hello to all from China, I'm new to this place :)

Dan Grossman

05:53

@FranciscoNoriega Here's your homework

amazon.com/Seven-Languages-Weeks-Programming-Programmers/dp/…

Chris

@DanGrossman out of curiosity which team were you on and why did you decide to leave?

Dan Grossman

I don't know if I can remember all the acronyms...

CXT (Customer Experience Team), part of the RXD (Relationship Experience Division), inside the MSIT division of MS? something like that

Chris

they emailed me in 2008 it was very obscure. I went to Van for an interview, they did ask good questions, but it felt more like a psych exam

Dan Grossman

And I left because 1) I thought the job was uninteresting, 2) I wasn't having fun with the tools, 3) Microsoft does everything so their non-compete agreement pretty much prevents you from working on side businesses, even hobby-size projects

Francisco Noriega

:( 20-32 day shipping costs 50% of the book, 8-16 days costs as much as the book and 2-6 days costs 150% of the cost of the book... I miss when I was in the states and shipping would take a couple of days and costs less than 5 dollars :(

Dan Grossman

05:58

ick

maybe get the ebook instead? :p

pragprog.com/titles/btlang/seven-languages-in-seven-weeks

Chris

@DanGrossman I C. I always wondered how much middle management ran the place

i read lots online from former employees, and lots of them recent have gone over to facebook, they recant the same thing, frustration

Dan Grossman

hehe, too much

Chris

@DanGrossman in response to your, "rest of the programming world". I've been helping a friend with some Linux C++ programming, he's not a programmer, and I've been really enjoying it.

Dan Grossman

:)

That reminds me of the first production code I ever wrote. My 16 year old friend got a job at the local newspaper, and told them he knew how to program. They told him to write a program to remove all the phone numbers in one text file from the list of numbers in another text file. He didn't really know how to program, so I wrote it for him, he brought it to work the next day and they used it for years afterwards.

Chris

A lot of people have Microsoft blinders on sometimes and they don't realize there are thriving communities outside of that community

Dan Grossman

06:06

Francisco Noriega

its funny I used to remember I used to think how old "Turbo C++" was a lot better than Dev-C++ back back at the start of Uni, and I actually used ubuntu in my lap for a while (my vista got too slow...but then my ubuntu got too slow too and I just reformated to vista again) and I actually used Kate+GCC to create a pretty cool final project....

and then they tried to teach us java and I didnt like it and then I saw C# and really really like it (mainly due to the IDE and to the fact that there was already a class to read and write to console xD)

Chris

I found a really cool IDE called Qt from Nokia and I really like it

Francisco Noriega

and from then on I sort of became 100% MS dev...

but yeah, im going to check out that book

Chris

I wonder how many programmers wouldn't be able to code if you told them to do it all in notepad

Dan Grossman

Isn't Qt a UI framework, not an IDE?

Chris

06:08

yes, it's a UI framework, but they have an IDE that you can write C++ in

Dan Grossman

@Chris Only the ones that use .NET would have to think twice :p

Chris

KDevelop and Anjuta didn't impress me

Francisco Noriega

yeah.. Kate is just a colored notepad...

Dan Grossman

vim :) Aptana Studio occasionally

Chris

@DanGrossman not a fan of .NET?

Francisco Noriega

06:09

I think the main problem is that when you are working with the basic STD libraries and stuff like that its easy to remember stuff, but when you start to use more and more and more libraries, I find it almost impossible to remember the names/params of all those methods/classnames and Intellisense is a great way to explore objects/apis

Dan Grossman

.NET is fine, but I haven't met a .NET developer that doesn't live in Visual Studio

I certainly used VS when I was at MS

Chris

@DanGrossman there is SharpDevelop, but yes you are correct

Dan Grossman

good luck getting the project to compile at a command line...

Chris

@DanGrossman ok, which IDE do you use when you client develop?

Dan Grossman

Most of the time vim, sometimes Aptana Studio

no intellisense/code completion

they have it, but I don't use it

Chris

06:12

client development as in desktop apps?

Dan Grossman

desktop apps? haven't written one of those in more than a year

and I used Eclipse

Chris

so your mainly web then?

ntechi

hii everyone, i need a wordpress code help

Dan Grossman

as much as I can be, I prefer to build services to desktop apps... that's the future

ntechi

can any one help me out in it?

Dan Grossman

06:14

wordpress.stackexchange.com and stackoverflow.com can

Francisco Noriega

I agree on Dan on that

Chris

I hear ya

Dan Grossman

Only in compiled, statically typed languages do you get messes like this:

(InspectionDetail.ItemConditions)bindingContext.ValueProvider.GetValue(String.Format("Details[{0}].Condition", k)).ConvertTo(typeof(InspectionDetail.ItemConditions));

(from a .NET app)

Francisco Noriega

I used to love desk dev and wasnt really interested in web (thus my lack of html/css skills(

Dan Grossman

that's why you NEED intellisense... in other languages, you'd NEVER have code that looks like that in the first place

ntechi

06:15

i need help on wordpress code, and there is no one the chat room

Dan Grossman

post a question on the website, not chat

Francisco Noriega

but I've also realized that web apps are the future, and I started investing in that (asp.net mvc)

Dan Grossman

or just ask here and stop asking to ask

in The SO Tavern (General) on Stack Overflow Chat, Nov 17 at 18:30, by Lasse V. Karlsen

So the general advice is don't ask to ask, just ask your question

@ntechi ?

Francisco Noriega

Well Dan, I went and got myself the eBook

Dan Grossman

Awesome :)

Francisco Noriega

06:24

yup

Chris

@FranciscoNoriega much better choice, and throw it in your DropBox, you'll never loose it, and it will always be with you

Francisco Noriega

gonna be busy the next few weekends

the guy sounds like a pretty strict teacher :P

but that is in a way a good thing

@chris thanks for the reminder! boxing just now!

well guys

its a little bit late now

I'm off to bed, it was really nice chatting with you :) hope to catch you later again

Dan Grossman

goodnight

Robert Harvey

06:39

@Dan: There's something seriously wrong with that code. There's a cast and a conversion. Very likely you need only one or the other.

Dan Grossman

07:02

shop.mattel.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4032107

Benjol

12:19

@Jin, just in case you come here first:

0

Q: The Ask Question link is wrapped

Check out the screen shot: (Apparently Firefox isn't liking House Whiteboard...)

ChrisF

@Jin - another minor issue with the site design:

0

Q: Favicon has white rather than transparent background

A minor point, but the new favicon (coffee cup) has a white rather than transparent background - unlike the other sites: Can we have a nice transparent background please?

favicon

WalterJ89

12:48

@Jin @ChrisF While we're talking about the site design I noticed that the menu links apprear over the drop down alerts when you scroll through them.

that is the

* Questions
* Tags
* Users
* Badges
* Unanswered
* Ask Question
links and the drop down (specificly) that says "there is one more answer for this question"

so thats probably just a z-index thing

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