The Whiteboard

user55340

00:19

10k'ers, untagged could use some delete votes.

Robert Harvey

00:35

@MichaelT Achievement unlocked.

gnat

00:52

@RobertHarvey I think two other 20Kers would appreciate if you also take a look at some answers over here

Robert Harvey

01:22

Yahoo keeps emailing me about that job.

"Take our test. You have two weeks."

"OK, we'll give you two more weeks."

"OK, forget about the test. When can we call you to do a phone interview?"

Um...

gnat

@RobertHarvey Yahoo doesn't get your Answers

Robert Harvey

01:37

Funny.

My mistake though. It's not Yahoo, it's Amazon.

gnat

Amazon has booked you

Robert Harvey

Punny.

Well, maybe they're figuring out that you can't attract talented people by giving them puzzle tests.

user55340

01:54

@RobertHarvey programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/240540/…

user55340

(and its reception on reddit and quora)

blackbee

03:05

github.com/fabianm/brainfuck/blob/master/src/… these two lines... isn't next == iter ?

user55340

03:16

Hey @Yannis - you like implementing BF interpreters... right?

user114359

03:41

I just typed sudo shutdown -r now in a putty terminal, then turned 90 degrees to watch that system reboot and do its fscks on reboot. I would call that the epitome of laziness, but it was actually more work to do it that way.

Robert Harvey

04:45

@MichaelT Is that a euphemism for doing consecutive shots of some cheap Russian vodka?

user114359

What is the name of the programming principle where you have object.a().b().c().d() my brain cannot function after midnight.

user114359

I think it was someone's name

user114359

not Liskov

Robert Harvey

Law of Demeter.

Or Fluent Interface.

user114359

that's it, thanks

user114359

04:51

Now I need sleep so I may finish the wake -> caffeine -> crash -> sleep -> wake ... cycle.

Robert Harvey

Mmm... Caffeine. I mean, coffee.

blackbee

github.com/fabianm/brainfuck/blob/master/src/… in here, is next == iter ? if not then why. I actually can't understand the significance of the lines 185 and 186

Ixrec

09:53

@blackbee this may be coming waaaaaay too late, but I believe the function you're looking at is performing what's commonly called a "splice" operation (here's an illustration of a simple case: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/…)

using that illustration as an example, lines 185-186 would be the part that makes the 37 node point to the 99 node (and vice versa, since the interpreter's using a doubly-linked list)

incidentally, since you asked the other day why use a linked list at all: iirc only a linked list can do a splice operation in constant time, so that might have something to do with it

MetaFight

10:19

happy coffee day?

Ixrec

happy pizza day

MetaFight

pizza day is awesome

blackbee

11:37

@Ixrec ok .. thanks.. twice

Ixrec

np

outis

The odd thing is the next initialization at line 176. Unless that happens before line 173, next == instruction, and you wind up with a circular data structure and a memory leak. Thing is, I don't see anything that would cause the compiler to initialize next before line 173.

blackbee

yeah, I am also confused about that part too...

Ixrec

that might be why I only came up with an answer after the 3rd or 5th time I clicked on blackbee's link

I'd assumed I was just too tired to read pointer-heavy C code

this would be so much simpler with std::list

outis

I pulled out the function to test it, and I get a memory error when run (codepad.org/wBbHpyaA).

Ixrec

11:52

something tells me we'd have to run the full interpreter and see what kind of arguments it gets called with in practice

today's aesop: write unit tests

blackbee

In the while loop they are going to the last instruction node to be inserted, and then (assuming the 'after' instruction is the second last instruction node, such that after->next is not NULL) .. then they do after->next which is the first instruction to insert .. so first_instruction->previous = last_instruction .. isn't that circular ?

no I am wrong

Ixrec

I think it's meant to be first_new_instruction->previous = last_old_instruction, but yeah, I'm not sure either

blackbee

fuck pointers

7

yeah you are right

Ixrec

seriously, the STL saves so much headache

blackbee

I have to learn C++ then... :P

outis

11:57

As-is, next == instruction. However, if next gets initialized before after->next = instruction, then next holds the original tail, and the next->previous = iter; iter->next = next; appends the original tail to the newly inserted list.

blackbee

ok ok..

outis

Codepad.com doesn't like it, but the modified version runs fine on other codepads, such as: ideone.com/nCryWl

outis

12:19

brainfuck_insert_before isn't referenced anywhere internally, so I assume it's a part of the API, and the implementation is buggy. Someone should tell the maintainers.

Jimmy Hoffa

12:46

Happy coffee day

enderland

13:18

TGICD

Jimmy Hoffa

@Petoj you're right. All three are using DataTime. — mydogisbox Feb 8 '14 at 20:50

DataTime - my favorite object type. Is it Data? Is it Time? Nobody knows; DataTime!

Duga

Hmm, code-review tag explicitely says : DO NOT USE THIS TAG. Code reviews are off-topic on Stack Overflow... May be this should be better on programmer, but unsure ... — Serge Ballesta 31 secs ago

@abrahamnavas This site is for programming questions, not all subjects that might interest programmers. — trojanfoe 16 secs ago

Thomas Owens

13:47

@JimmyHoffa STOP! DataTime!

Simon André Forsberg

@SergeBallesta In this case, this question would fit neither on Code Review or Programmers. Please read A Guide to Code Review for Stack Overflow users and What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — Simon André Forsberg 5 mins ago

Please correct me if I'm wrong about that ^^

Thomas Owens

It could be made to fit on Programmers.

> I would appreciate your comments on what option is best and why; other options and advice are welcome.

That's kind of problematic. The "best" option may depend. Polling for other opinions isn't going to get you far, either.

Simon André Forsberg

yeah, it seems a bit opinion based.

and also, neither option seems to be very good. Loading coordinates from a file from a constructor? Doesn't seem right to me.

Thomas Owens

I don't think it's off-topic for Programmers, though. It just needs to be improved.

Simon André Forsberg

@ThomasOwens feel free to add a comment to it and correct me. Too late to edit my comment.

there's way too many //some constructors and stuff for me to be able to say anything useful about the code.

Thomas Owens

13:57

If he reads your links, he should learn how to fix it for Programmers.

Otherwise, eh.

Ixrec

it's probably close enough, most people who post iffy questions can't seem to understand the difference between a bad question and an off-topic question

Simon André Forsberg

Alright, thanks.

Simon André Forsberg

14:39

@ThomasOwens I have a feeling the answer is "No" but I am asking anyway: Would this question be on-topic on programmers?

0

Q: Dilemma Cash Flow Modeling

I'm studying a modeling form to be the most generic and reusable I can with the cash flow design, but there's many variables in the model. So the fir question I'm on the right way? My model It is too fragmented? Is sometih missed? Just an observation, this model does not have all the attributes...

Thomas Owens

@SimonAndréForsberg Design reviews are on-topic, but we need more detail.

I don't even know what "cash flow modeling" is. There should be a better description of what this is modeling and perhaps specific questions about the design.

3

Q: Does Akka obsolesce JMS/AMQP message brokers?

I spent the last week deep diving into the Akka docs and finally understand what actor systems are, and the problems that they solve. My understanding (and experience with) traditional JMS/AMQP message brokers is that they exist to provide the following: Asynchronous processing between produce...

asynchronous-programming message-queue messaging akka

Can someone read the comments? Am I totally misunderstanding the question?

Duga

@gnat "There are days when there are more suggestions to migrate or repost to Programmers.SE than there are questions posted here." ... My apologies for contributing to that problem. :) Thanks for the guide, interesting to see the P.SE side of things. — SpaceSteak 36 secs ago

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens "Doesn't Akka provide this, without all the required infrastructure and operational overhead?"

I'm guessing it probably does, though I don't know much about Akka or message brokering.

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Yes, but only between other Akka components.

Robert Harvey

Of course.

For everything else, there's Protocol Buffers.

Thomas Owens

14:46

In my example of a distributed system that uses multiple languages or software built by multiple vendors, you may need to design a broker that everyone can communicate with to give more freedom to the developers.

Protocol Buffers is just a serialization method. ProtoBuf over JMS isn't bad.

Where are my distributed system peeps?

Robert Harvey

I've always been a bit homogeneous, myself.

enderland

hey answer from @ThomasOwens from 2009 is still useful!

Thomas Owens

What answer?

Robert Harvey

"It's 2009."

Oh, wait.

Thomas Owens

But yeah. My answers are timeless.

BTW, itn's @JimmyHoffa a distributed guy?

enderland

14:53

77

A: Text Editor which shows \r\n?

With Notepad++, you can show end-of-line characters. It shows CR and LF, instead of "\r" and "\n", but it gets the point across. However, it will still insert the line breaks. But you do get to see the line-ending characters. To use Notepad++ for this, open the View menu, open the Show Symbols s...

Robert Harvey

Jimmy Hoffa is a Renaissance Man™ .

Thomas Owens

Isn't some kind of broker the only way to achieve a loosely coupled distributed system? If you have a direct connection between clients, then each client has a direct dependency. I would rather have the clients all depend on some other component that is always there.

And then clients and come and go.

Robert Harvey

Makes sense to me.

durron597

@MichaelT @GlenH7 @gnat Can someone help me find a reference on why "tell me if I'm correct" questions are not good questions for the SE format

Robert Harvey

@ThomasOwens Can we close this question asked by a SO question-blocked account? programmers.stackexchange.com/q/290713/1204

Ixrec

15:00

@durron597 I think meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6502/… might cover that?

durron597

@Ixrec This is actually an SO question, I was hoping for an MSE reference

Ixrec

ah, woops

durron597

@Skynet Composition over inheritance is a solution to a problem, not a problem. What problem is he trying to solve here? "Tell me if I'm right" questions are not good questions for this format. — durron597 5 mins ago

Ixrec

probably the same reasoning applies everywhere but I can't recall a thread specifically on MSE about it

durron597

If anything the question would be on topic here, but it's crap so I'm not flagging to migrate.

Three reopen votes. Gorram bikesheds

Ixrec

15:02

finally read it, wtf does OP think "composition" means

I guess there's a debate over what to do with a question whose premise is completely wrong, since an answer saying "that Q doesn't even make sense because..." is probably still useful to OP

but for that question I'm not sure I know enough about what he's misunderstanding to solve it with an answer rather than a discussion

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens it/in/is/it's/in's/its ?

@ThomasOwens ProtoBuff is nice - I like MessagePack for the more configurationless approach if I'm going to use a serialization that requires extension, or more often JSON when performance isn't critical since it's so obscenely standardized now as well as being very human readable/workable

MessagePack is good if it's ok to tell all the consumers "You must go grab a 3rd party library to interact with this system"

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/290709/…

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens ...does he not realize camel == ActiveMQ/JMS/whatever? "I will never need an MQ broker if I use Akka, I might just need Akka+MQ Broker!" ???

whatever. His logic is missing out on one important point anyway

Thomas Owens

15:17

@JimmyHoffa I don't know. Camel is just an interface. It doesn't replace the broker.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens last I heard Camel was just another of the names/variants of "JMS" / "ActiveMQ" which I've been told are the same thing

Thomas Owens

Akka appears to have its own distributed message passing framework.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens ....then it is an MQ broker.

Thomas Owens

No. It doesn't provide a broker.

You still need to be running ActiveMQ or OpenMQ or RabbitMQ or an XMPP server somewhere for Camel to connect to.

It's really more like an integration framework. If you have multiple communication methods, Camel makes it easy to work with all of them.

So you can interact with FTP, XMPP, OpenMQ, and raw sockets in a consistent manner.

Jimmy Hoffa

An MQ broker provides important pub-sub architecture facilities for distributed systems. These are important because they allow you to write applications that notify the overarching system of things, while being totally unconcerned with the acting-upon-those-things. This way you can write applications with single concerns: I process <bla>, someone else can log it, someone else can notify IT of failures, someone else can update <bla> accounts to tell them their <bla> was processed

Thomas Owens

15:22

Yes. I believe if you are using Akka across all components, Akka has that architecture built in.

Jimmy Hoffa

...then it's an MQ broker.

Thomas Owens

But if you can't use Akka across all components, you need a broker. Camel isn't a broker.

gnat

21

A: Question closed because yes/no answer

When asking a yes/no question there are one of two possibilities: You really want a yes/no answer. If this is the case, and you don't need anything else to answer your question then it means the answers will be inherently low quality. An answer that only says "Yes" or "No" (in addition to not...

Jimmy Hoffa

....what I just described above is an MQ broker. Are there clients in every language? Perhaps not, but there's network IPC occurring of the pub-sub variety - ergo, MQ broker.

(What is camel if it's not ActiveMQ/JMS?)

"service bus" - now that's another fancy story which is more buzzword than substance. It's like MQ Broker with ETL built in - I think of service buses like FileMaker Pro - great for people who want everything they do to be done all by one single bizarro process, shit for any of us who want to actually maintain software systems rather than becoming expert users of a single application.

Thomas Owens

I don't know if Akka has all of the requirements for a broker. Maybe?

durron597

15:28

@gnat Thanks

Looks like the new nav is live across the board

I liked the old nav better, sigh.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens brokers is a vague term. It's better to think in terms of facilities than some buzzword. Distributed pub-sub? Distributed fifo queue? These are really the only two pieces I think necessary to call something a "broker" - persistence guarantees are great but optional (most brokers let you turn this on/off). Everything else is gravy. Distributed transactions, guaranteed delivery (a shit concept because everybody fucks it up and confuses it with transactions 'n such)

I guess the only other thing I'd say that's required to call it a broker is that it's a standalone running process, so I guess Akka doesn't qualify (ZeroMQ doesn't qualify for this reason). Perhaps that's what the guys question is? Does he need a separate standalone process?

durron597

@ThomasOwens Thoughts on what should be done with this question?

Jimmy Hoffa

> Camel's exhaustive, almost infinite list of integration capabilities (TCP, FTP, ZeroMQ, the list goes on and on...)

what is camel? O_o

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa It's a wrapper.

Jimmy Hoffa

...for what?

oh so he means he can use it to integrate with a broker or other interoperable IPC service

Thomas Owens

15:42

Communication protocols.

> Apache Camel lets you work with the same API regardless which kind of Transport is used - so learn the API once and you can interact with all the Components provided out-of-box.

Jimmy Hoffa

whatever. One way or another he needs another IPC service running somewhere if he wants to interop beyond Java. If he doesn't want to, then sounds like Akka will do it all for him.

@ThomasOwens transport is pointless if there's no service to talk to on the other end. And if it also acts as a listener it's no longer just "transport"

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa That's kind of my point. Camel is an interface that abstracts the transport away. You don't care if you're using JMS, TCP, UDP, HTTP, raw sockets anymore.

Jimmy Hoffa

yeah. Just read your comments

that's the way I see it

Thomas Owens

The last comment is kind of weird, too. You don't just magically distribute a system. It's something that you plan to do.

You either have a distributed system that somehow communicates or you don't have a distributed system.

Jimmy Hoffa

You mention Camel's infinite integration capabilities but it can't integrate with Nothing. There needs to be something for it to integrate with, otherwise you're just enjoying the support for a bunch of services that you aren't running. Kick up JMS, or an HTTP or FTP server or something if you want to use Camel to integrate with something. Otherwise it's just blissfully providing infinite integration capabilities while integrating with nothing. — Jimmy Hoffa 19 secs ago

meh, doesn't much matter

either way his question is vague at best, and a discussion request possibly

I'll ponder a CV for a while..

Thomas Owens

15:53

I don't think it's a discussion request.

But I don't have enough for a full-fledged answer.

gnat

any 3Kers over here willing to test if this asker is trying to circumvent a question block? Their SO profile shows visited about an hour prior to asking here - someone paranoid would say they probably tried there and were blocked and decided to try their luck at Programmers. But we aren't paranoid, are we?

Thomas Owens

> Does Akka obsolesce JMS/AMQP message brokers?

No.

> if my app uses Akka, do I ever have a need to bring JMS/AMQP brokers (e.g. ActiveMQ, RabbitMQ, Kafka) into the picture? In other words, is there ever a use case where a new Akka-based app would then also warrant the introduction of a new JMS/AMQP broker cluster? Why or why not?

Yes. One example would be a heterogeneous system where all components don't have access to Akka. Depending on your broker implementation, there may be bindings for other languages. You also allow clients to be written without a dependency on Akka.

Jimmy Hoffa

@ThomasOwens "not all"

Thomas Owens

Should I expand on that a little and make it an answer?

And fix that error, of course.

Jimmy Hoffa

It doesn't particularly need expansion, and yes. Gods I'm tired of people learning "actor"s from these shitty libraries that just made up some bullshit and said "Look, it's the actor model!" Blech.

Akka != Actors

Thomas Owens

15:58

That you'll need to explain to me. Clearly, Akka is not the be-all-end-all of the actor model. But it is an implementation of the actor model, yes?

Jimmy Hoffa

Frankly, I've failed to find any real Actor model implementations in what I've looked at, closest is Erlang

@ThomasOwens not even remotely

Thomas Owens

@JimmyHoffa Is there a post that explains the difference?

enderland

stupid file line endings, srsly

Thomas Owens

Between the real Actor model and Akka, that is.

enderland

I wonder how much time has been wasted because of different file ending

gnat

16:00

@enderland not much really. One only needs to break their nose on wrong file endings a handful of times and it becomes a habit to check

enderland

@gnat hah, that's a fair point

Jimmy Hoffa

The Actor Model is an exceedingly simplistic computational model, all the implementations out there toss a bunch of extra shit on top of it and say "See, it's the actor model!" which is like saying "dynamic typing is strong typing without all the constraints! We improved it!"

The Actor Model is simple: You only have local state. You may not respond to calls. Nothing you call will respond to you. You may create things. You may send messages to things. You may decide to respond to the next call that comes to you differently.

That's all of it. All the libraries add facilities that make actors actually respond to things, or give them state beyond local, etc. It's all crap. They're just turned The Actor Model into a buzzword while actually not following it.

If you want to know more - watch this: channel9.msdn.com/Shows/Going+Deep/…

^-- Best lecture/explanation of the actor model ever - by the guy who invented it.

Thomas Owens

Bookmarked.

durron597

34 mins ago, by durron597

@ThomasOwens Thoughts on what should be done with this question?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Hmm. It may be too broad.

It's asking for a lot of information.

durron597

16:14

@ThomasOwens It has like 4 STCI tags.

Honestly, all 5 tags ought to be burned, but apart from "too broad" (which I'm not even sure I agree with) I couldn't think of a close reason.

Thomas Owens

I fixed the tags.

durron597

@ThomasOwens That just leaves three questions with qualifications, one open that I've voted to close

ooh. professional-society. Just one open question

Thomas Owens

Hmm. I'm torn about professional society.

Let me look at the questions.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Me too, I burned it from this question but maybe it should be put back

enderland

To be fair, Facebook isn't exactly known for their clean, usable UX. — enderland 10 mins ago

I'm always surprised how popular facebook is giving it's terrible UX

durron597

16:29

@enderland Worse is better

enderland

> It is better to get half of the right thing available so that it spreads like a virus. Once people are hooked on it, take the time to improve it to 90% of the right thing

I can appreciate the comparison of fbook as a virus

Duga

This question belongs on meta. Here is a post on your question: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/254570/… — abaldwin99 17 secs ago

durron597

@enderland And Windows

and C

@enderland that was written in 1991 I believe.

enderland

I was... well I was young then, let's just say

durron597

@enderland Yet it's still true today. Reddit still looks like crap

s/crap/utter crap/

enderland

16:41

Yeah, I'm an advocate of function over form (even though my background is UX, I care more about the functional aspect - not the beauty aspect)

Duga

17:14

I'm not an expert on this, but it seems like your question might be better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com which is more about concepts than solutions. — Robert Rose 55 secs ago

Simon André Forsberg

0

Q: Optimising nested for loops Java

I am having a code that does scheduling of a days events based on the exact fit basis, I am kind of having three nested for loops and I love to hear thoughts on how to optimise it. The for loop algorithm is as follows, for each schedule in List<Schedule> for each session in schedule.getSessio...

java performance oop design-patterns loop

Is this something for you folks? ^^

ugh, code was just added... nevermind

enderland

17:30

Silicon Valley S01E05 scrum scene

►

> he thinks this wall of psych 101 mba mind control bullshit is going to motivate us

Ampt

Happy Coffee Day.

@blackbee pointers are your friends! They let you do all sorts of stuff like iterate through arrays, or make linked lists!

enderland

17:45

programmers.stackexchange.com/users/11248/leah?tab=topactivity

wow

literally 100% of votes are upvotes...

Ampt

he's the anti-gnat

if they shake hands they annihilate eachother and turn into pure energy.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt or get undefined behaviour! The best kind!

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa if you try to cut a board with an augur you'll probably get undefined behavior too, but one tends to side with the augur in such disagreements.

Robert Harvey

How do you guys feel about if (condition) statement;

all on one line?

Ampt

I don't like them

braces on all the things

Robert Harvey

18:00

So if (condition) { statement } works for you?

All on one line?

ratchet freak

I don't mind it as long as indentation is correct

Robert Harvey

Indentation? You mean of the entire line?

ratchet freak

granted I'd prefer the statement indented on the next line

Ampt

@RobertHarvey depends on how short it is, but I generally prefer the statement on a new line

never without braces

Robert Harvey

Mmmm.... Braces.

Ampt

18:11

but if it's a series of statements like
if (red) {color = red;}
if (blue) {color = blue;}

then I guess I could see it

MetaFight

@Ampt uh, color = true ?

ratchet freak

color = red?red:(blue?blue:color);

Robert Harvey

lol

MetaFight

that's effectively color = (red || blue) ? true : color;

which is color |= (red || blue)

Ampt

or you could just use a switch statement, but that's besides the point. the point is that if you're doing a ton of short operations that you can't easily reduce down, I could see the use for having the condition and statement on the same line

MetaFight

18:18

but discussing the actual point isn't fun.

Ampt

hmmm... fair point, continue.

Robert Harvey

18:33

OK, here's another fun one:

sourceCollection.ForEach(targetCollection.Add)

durron597

HAPPY COFFEE DAY EVERYONE

Robert Harvey

Isn't every day coffee day?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt really? I would side with the board - the augur is going to make that board fly, and ten times out of ten flying boards hit people. So to summarize, in Augur vs. Board competitions, people always lose.

durron597

@RobertHarvey My trading model just made more money today than in the rest of July combined so I am celebrating!

Robert Harvey

You're doing computer trading, and actually making it work?

How much of that goes into your own personal banking account?

Jimmy Hoffa

18:36

@RobertHarvey it varies. I almost never same-line it- but I don't brace a lot of stuff that doesn't need it

durron597

@RobertHarvey finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GCQ15.CMX+Interactive

ugh.

@RobertHarvey Yes, actually making it work. None, because we're reinvesting the money so the bank lets us trade more size.

enderland

@GlenH7 you want to tell this guy he's trying something really hard, or me? :P

0

Q: Simulating fluid transfer in a pipe

I know this is a fairly large/broad category, but I've been racking my brain over the last few weeks on how to simulate fluid flowing through pipes. In the environment I'm working, I can have a single pipe segment connect in any of the six directions (the four cardinal directions plus up/down) an...

java concepts

@durron597 oh commodities trading

Telastyn

my personal investments did very well today with Visa and Amazon up big.

Ampt

@enderland he's totally playing minecraft

Telastyn

all in one line is fine if braced.

Robert Harvey

18:39

Hm, brace fetishes.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn O_O

Telastyn

?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn What was that? You're going into a tunnel, I think we've lost you...

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa I used to dismiss the "all braces, all the time" crowd, until someone broke a program at NASA because they added a line to a single-line if without also including the necessary braces.

Telastyn

@RobertHarvey sorry, all in one line is fine if braced.

:P

Robert Harvey

18:40

And when you break a C program that way, it breaks in style. No warnings, just CRASH.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey I used to be a member of that crowd, but I've just never made that mistake, and if someone else does, it's probably the type of person who's making mistakes everywhere else too, so this isn't really protecting you from the harm they're committing...

enderland

@Telastyn I'm all about index funds. boring boring boring...

Telastyn

I probably should be more boring.

enderland

vanguard ftw.

Telastyn

I just always use braces so I don't need to think about if I need braces.

Jimmy Hoffa

18:43

@Telastyn you're breaking up, you must be in a solar flare, perhaps you're having a stroke or hit your head and began speaking german. Either way, there is no sense to be made from your words...

Telastyn

nein.

Ampt

:22993115
    if braced
        all in one line is fine;

now it's in your messed up style. SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE BY LEAVING OUT THE BRACES?!

enderland

resist.temptation.to.edit.to.fix.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Telastyn чтo яазик?

enderland

translate: чтo яазик

(from Portuguese) чтo яазик

portuguese? lolz

Telastyn

18:48

I... don't have Japanese installed on this machine, and I'm too lazy to google then copy/paste it.

enderland

oh, market is down nearly 1% today

Telastyn

my holdings are up 4.84% muhahahah

enderland

Hah

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland O_o where did it get Portuguese for that?

user15026

@JimmyHoffa If you're asking about language, and using Russian, I think you've misspelled it.

user15026

18:52

(I went based on sounding it out, so if you're talking about something else, carry on)

user15026

:22993369 Also the и should be ы, I think.

user15026

(Sorry, being a pedantic nerdball)

rolfl

Hi @AshleyNunn - Just-sayin-hi!

Jimmy Hoffa

@AshleyNunn NICHT VERSTANDEN. GEHEN HIERAUS! SCHNELL!

user15026

@JimmyHoffa laughs

user15026

18:55

@rolfl Hello! :) How goes life as a normal stack citizen?

rolfl

Well, I just realized that I can no longer see the history of messages removed in here.... drat

Sucks!

Missing the TL folk mostly, though. Say HI!.

user15026

@rolfl Will do :)

MetaFight

:(

enderland

@rolfl this channel has a very disproportionate number of moderators I think, so it's a good place to be

@JimmyHoffa someone ought to make an extension to cache all chat messages and then show them even when deleted ;)

rolfl

Drat, boss, look back here... and gone ;-)

I have to run, install some electrical at my folks, Have a good w/end all.

Jimmy Hoffa

18:59

don't miss

durron597

@enderland Maybe I should run for workplace mod. I can get 80 rep real quick

user15026

How much rep do you need to run?

user15026

(Not that I should consider another site right now, Arqade kinda eats my life)

durron597

@AshleyNunn 300. I have 220 on workplace

@AshleyNunn If you couldn't stay mod on Pets you probably shouldn't run on workplace

I'm still trying to get @Telastyn to run for workplace mod but every time I say it he ignores me

Telastyn

that is true.

user15026

19:04

@durron597 Completely different life situations, etc.

durron597

@Telastyn Well I guess you didn't ignore me this time :-P

user15026

It was more idle curiosity than serious intent - I kinda want to be more involved in sites that I intend to poke at possibly moderating.

Telastyn

I feel as though doing moderation well would take more time and attention than I can provide.

durron597

@Telastyn I think you would do a better job than the guy who only has 500 rep

enderland

@durron597 your margin is shrinking, unless you make money simply when things change significantly

Jimmy Hoffa

19:09

@AshleyNunn ich dachte sie universitate fur englischen waren gegangen - sind sie rechtsschutzversicherungsgesellschaften auch? très bien пожалуйста!

durron597

@enderland What do you mean?

enderland

@durron597 does your company make money purely based on number of transactions? or actual commodity price?

durron597

@enderland trade secrets

What I can tell you is that more money in the account allows us to trade more size (using whatever metric we use). So if we have $100 we can trade 1 unit but if we have $1000 we can trade 10. Those numbers are not correct obviously but they are illustrative

enderland

@durron597 oh fine you dont have to give away all your company IP imiediately :P

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 Does your company actually use the software? I thought you worked on sold-software; but you work on internal LoB software used by a trading desk in your company? So you work in a bank?

durron597

19:22

@JimmyHoffa Everything we do is internal.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 So you work in a bank?

durron597

I don't know what to call us, bank is definitely wrong, hedge fund is closer but still wrong

Hedge fund with a single investor is pretty close.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 private equity investors

Which is still technically a bank. A bank that stores, maintains, and invests a single persons money is still technically a bank I think?

durron597

The biggest difference between us and a hedge fund is that we only have one investor.

user15026

@JimmyHoffa My brain hurts now.

durron597

19:25

But we don't keep track of all that investor's money, only the amount they've chosen to invest with us

Jimmy Hoffa

basically you guys all work for one rich dude making his money grow by algorithms. Not a bad position to be in

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Well, that's half of what we do

the one rich dude is a commodity producer and we also hedge his work product

But I don't personally do that part of it

Telastyn

@durron597 - yeah, I have high standards for myself though.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 huh, sounds like one smart rich dude.

I've only heard horror stories of working at trading desks, sounds like perhaps the one-investor approach makes it a good bit less shitty

Ixrec

19:45

it certainly makes it simpler

we have a few hundred thousand clients so we get a lot of tickets that end in "user error" or "cannot reproduce"

durron597

@JimmyHoffa He is very smart. He's perhaps the smartest person I know, Ivy League education not withstanding.

enderland

@Ixrec "program doesn't work right, plz fix"

Ixrec

@enderland my personal favorite is "it keeps beeping randomly, please make it stop"

"you have audio alerts enabled on X, Y, Z, just turn them off"

whatsisname

"Program crashed. Please fix it"

enderland

where I last worked people disconnected the speakers since a lot of testing triggered them and due to safety reasons you cannot actually disable some alerts from the UI

Jimmy Hoffa

19:50

the things you find when searching The Whiteboard's log...

Nov 22 '13 at 20:54, by Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT actual facts, known in modern parlance as factuals, the Oxford English dictionary of 2050 retains synonyms to Factual as Farktual, Fractional, and Fax Machine.

Ixrec

that sounds like one of the inheritance hierarchies that was driving @RobertHarvey mad until he drank the koolaid

Jimmy Hoffa

ah yes, 20:54, welcome to the modern age, where statements made after a couple drinks are a matter of record.

enderland

a friday, too

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland what're you, one of those freaky street barkers? What city is in zip code 23242? What day of the week will Christmas be on in 1900-42 * 3? What page in the yellow pages does the letter U start on in 1993 for the township of Muddy Rock, AR?

enderland

@JimmyHoffa far less clever... google.com/…

;)

Duga

19:56

I think that this question might be better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com or codereview.stackexchange.com. — Chris Sinclair 14 secs ago

durron597

20:14

Sigh...

@Juxhin If you have a new question, you should ask a new question. See Exit strategies for “chameleon questions”. Edits should not invalidate existing answers. Also, be careful not to ask a yes/no question (e.g. Is this approach okay?) I'm sure your approach is fine. If you try it, and it's not fine, then feel free to ask a new question. — durron597 1 min ago

Jimmy Hoffa

20:43

bought a can of Illy the other day - I rather like it; it's very finely ground so with my french press a lot of it get's into my cup, but it's so finely ground it's not gritty - it's thick and sludgey like turkish coffee

Bottom of my cup is like a kick in the coffee with the sludge down there. Nums.

enderland

There are some weeks when Friday and the end of the day cannot come faster, this is one of those weeks...

durron597

@enderland Half my company is already gone

enderland

@durron597 I'm WFH and my entire team is at least 2 hours (or more) ahead ofme. they are all gone :P

user15026

20:59

@enderland I still have 3 hours today and then 7 tomorrow before I get my weekend

user15026

Although Saturdays are usually super quiet and chill and I mostly just read whatever book I have with me

enderland

@AshleyNunn heh, I just read a star trek voyager episode after reading a scifi.se question... doh

durron597

@enderland "read"? not "Watched"?

enderland

@durron597 en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Prototype_(episode)

user15026

I am not going to click that because Memory Alpha is a worse time and attention sink for me than TV Tropes :P

enderland

21:08

lol

Jimmy Hoffa

I've heard of TV tropes... I am terrible at staying modern, never been there

user15026

It's one of those sites where you go looking for one thing and then just go "oh that looks shiny" and then you have like ten links to ten different unrelated things open and just go "how did that even"

Jimmy Hoffa

@AshleyNunn which is weird, because with an English degree you wouldn't think you'd be found committing such grammatical atrocities...

user15026

@JimmyHoffa I spend too much time on Tumblr.

user15026

It does weird things to your perception of language.

user15026

21:15

And really, I am a terrible English major.

Jimmy Hoffa

ich am heute gelernt, Я kann eздить Ashley Nunn loco bei по русски и otro gesprachen

user15026

I am amazed at how much of that I managed to understand.

whatsisname

sony documentation is wretched

durron597

21:41

@enderland i have a couple of recent scifi questions about voyager. not about that episode though.

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