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12:03 AM
*This room was placed in timeout for 10 minutes; Cool down, chill. *
 
 
5 hours later…
5:01 AM
I would be glad to know a partial list (at least of ten posts) which has been undeleted or reopened by the CRUDE users. No need to respond to me here (if at all) I also visit the CRUDE room sometimes and so you can respond there also (if at all). — user 170039 42 mins ago
@user170039 I do not know whether this will be considered satisfactory answer to you, but by searching the room, you could find some examples.
To be more specific, I often user tags to mark actions I want to discuss - such as (or , (or ), , ),
It is easy to search for such messages: undelete, reopen, re-open, improve.
I do not think there is somebody else who uses this "tag system". But still if you search simply for one of the words mentioned above, you might find some such discussion. (But this will include many false positives or general discussions.)
Here are links to searches: undelete, reopen, "re open" and undelete.
 
5:23 AM
Probably I should have included reopened and undeleted.
And this one again is specific to my messages in the room. After some action suggested here is finished, it is often mentioned/summarized in a message. In such cases I quite often add timeline and/or revisions.
@amWhy Now deleted - revisions/timeline. So it probably can your message be unpinned and unstarred, unless you want to keep it on the starboard in order to point also to the OP (in addition to the question - which is now deleted).
That is, if the system "unstar after it is settled" - which was suggested some time ago - is in use.
 
5:42 AM
@user170039: I have myself voted to undelete 39 posts and reopen 51 posts, including here and here. I will not waste my time giving more links. From memory, there have been users who come to the room asking for their question or answer to be undeleted (with reason) and we do help. People generally notice events that they don't like and hardly notice events that don't benefit them. If you see questions that should not be deleted or closed, you should post in the CRUDE room so that we can act on it. — user21820 6 mins ago
I will add to the above comment that both question linked there were also discussed/mentioned in this room: 2389907 and 2494843.
 
@MartinSleziak Thanks for that. I had forgotten.
 
@MartinSleziak Thanks.
Although it doesn't completely answer my query. It probably helps to prove the point that the sole purpose of this room is not to delete and close questions (as some of the comments seemed to suggest).
 
@user170039 *sole.
Yes.
 
@user21820 Yes. Sorry for the mistake.
 
Martin Sleziak essentially proved my point that this room is meant for both deletion and undeletion, and it just so happens that there are vastly more lousy posts than good ones that come up in discussion here.
The fact that I had randomly picked two posts that I had undeleted and both had been in fact mentioned here is good enough evidence to myself even.
Because I hardly remember 1% of what comes through here. It's just a thankless job.
 
5:58 AM
If needed, I can try to compile some list of reopening initiated by discussions in this room where I participated. Most likely it won't be too impressive, since the stuff which I initiate most often are duplicates and merging.
But I will not have much time now - I'll have to go to work in a bit.
 
@MartinSleziak Instead you may point the users interested in these issues to this room and tell them to follow your comments from here.
Unfortunately I was a bit imprecise in my comment here (apologies for that). So let me try to rephrase it,
 
@MartinSleziak Yea duplicates and merging is another thankless job, though perhaps less rotten eggs get thrown your way? =P Anyway take your time; I'm already quite uncomfortable with having to spend extra time to show others that we're honestly helping the site, so I don't see that you have any obligation to do so if you've better things to do. =)
 
"I would be glad to know a partial list (at least of ten posts) which has been undeleted or reopened by the CRUDE users and also has been mentioned in the room. No need to respond to me here (if at all) I also visit the CRUDE room sometimes and so you can respond there also (if at all)."
 
As you suggested, I have added link to this discussion in comments under the meta post - although I am not sure whether it really is that useful. (It is definitely not list of at least ten posts as you requested - just a suggestion how one might find such discussions.)
 
@user170039 I see. So the two links I gave are considered instances you are looking for, right? In any case, I hope you're aware that the junk to gem ratio among the deleted posts is like 1000:1, so it would of course be unreasonable to expect as many undeletions mentioned in CRUDE as deletions. (I'm not saying you do, but certainly there will be many users who wrongly see this disparity as unfairness, which is a logical fallacy.)
 
6:13 AM
@user21820 It may also give substantial (quantitative?) insight into the main focus of this room.
Which may hopefully help to evaluate eventually whether such deletions (and, probably, closure too) is indeed coordinated by folks in the CRUDE room, as @Jack claims.
 
@user170039 Whether it is coordinated is a red herring to the real issue of whether it is beneficial for the site. Like I said in my Meta post and in many other comments there and here, you don't criticize cleaners from cooperating in cleaning up after people leave their dirt lying around, right?
 
 
5 hours later…
10:54 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in answer: Calculating permutations that has no 2 repeated members by Klas on math.SE
 
11:09 AM
@user21820 "Let me just say that your idea is utterly impractical from a logistical viewpoint ..."

O.k. It's just a idea put under consideration... Maybe more practical would be to create a tag {homework} and add it to the question which is evidently homework. I'm also share with you that the site should not be a conveyor belt for solutions of typical homeworks, however I have doubts about means to achieve that..
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user: finding inflection point of $t$ by Klas on math.SE
 
@Widawensen Sorry but you need to go and read the stuff on Meta before you even put out ideas. Nearly everything you've suggested has been discussed before. There once was a homework tag, but at some point it was agreed to get rid of that tag. If you do not have the time to invest into learning about this community, I'm afraid we will be wasting much time talking about it.
2
 
11:30 AM
@user21820 I'm learning chatting with you, of course I don't have so much time to know everything.. I'm not a full time participant of the site .. I have long periods of absences sometimes.. as I said I know about existence of CRUDE room only 5 days... so it's not strange that some things are new for me..
 
@Widawensen Sorry if my remark came across wrongly, but I've been quite tired by everything going on recently, and didn't feel like spending much time and energy on related issues for the next few days. Concerning the homework tag, see here (found by a simple search of Meta):
66
Q: Fate of the (homework) tag: The community voted.... now what?

user642796Well, the results of the voting seem pretty conclusive: Leave homework alone: 43 upvotes (20.38%) Deprecate but don't delete homework: 12 upvotes (5.69%) Burninate and blacklist homework: 156 upvotes (73.93%) So we'll be requesting that the homework tag be hanged, drawn and quarte...

And concerning the logistical viewpoint, it's very simple; voting on a post can only be done by the people who see the post, and can never be democratic in any reasonable sense of the word. Witness how difficult it is just to elect one leader 'democratically' in many places of the world, and you should see that it's impossible to ask for democracy in voting on SE. That's all.
What anyone can do, which I've repeatedly emphasized, is to bring up any particular post one comes across and thinks should or should not be closed/deleted, so that you get more people to look at it than normally.
That's the expressly stated purpose of this room.
For other Meta issues in general, Math Meta is the place to bring it up.
 
Thank you for the link, you know much, much more than me, I'm also tired by the situation but I feel like as I was put into it and I should to get knowledge about it. My dream is to return to the world of mathematical objects, the world of social interactions can be sometimes tiresome.. btw I have a meta-theory of questions and answers based on linear space where answers are treated as the points in this space and questions as unit vectors towards answers.answers make mathematical objects
 
11:49 AM
@Widawensen I understand. For mathematics discussion, I hope you will enjoy participating in one or more of the topic-specific chat-rooms, if not the main site.
You can also ask about Meta-related issues in the Math Meta chat-room, and I'm sure Martin Sleziak will help to answer your queries.
 
12:46 PM
70 messages moved to trash
Everyone, please be reminded that this room is about "Close/Reopen/Undelete/Delete/Edit for questions and answers on Math SE". Thank you! =)
 
 
3 hours later…
3:57 PM
@user21820 Poking around over just the recent discussions, it seems that this room also concerns MathJax, the role of Meta, salutations, and any number of chatty topics - including, requests for feedback on popularity‌​. It seems that what is not welcome, are honest responses to that question.
In reality, recent discussions on Meta make it clear that the role of this room is not well understood and at least a few people question the motivations of the folks who frequent it. In that context, I think my remarks (which were a direct response to a question that remains) were on topic.
 
@MarkMcClure I left your initial response, and moved the rest starting from amWhy's response to you. Is that not enough for you? I don't think it's worth keeping the back-and-forth argument that seemed to go nowhere.
 
My comments were for amWhy and she certainly knows the truth of the matter. It would be fine with me if all my comments were deleted - not just moved and not with just half a comment hanging there context free.
 
@MarkMcClure You pinged me, but say that your comments are for someone else, in which case you should not ping me. Anyway, I wanted everyone to just go back to enjoying mathematics. Is that okay or not?
Please? =)
 
4:16 PM
8 messages moved to trash
 
4:29 PM
@user21820 I pinged you to question your removal of material from this room. The portion of that material that I wrote was directed to amWhy.
 
@MarkMcClure Since amWhy has just moved all those comments away, is it acceptable to you now?
 
@user21820 Again, I would prefer the whole mess was deleted entirely - not just moved.
Your initial removal of the material is a bit different. Removal of material here that criticizes the motivations of frequent users of this chatroom suggests that there is, in fact, a conspiratorial nature in the actions here. Something I haven't really believed until now.
 
@MarkMcClure It cannot be deleted entirely without special moderator tools. The trash chat-room is the usual place to move messages that we wish deleted.
@MarkMcClure You, like many others, insinuate things about me and some other users. I try my best to be impartial, but you misjudge me. I purposely left your strongest response here so that people do not get the false impression that you didn't respond. And yet you accuse me, baselessly.
 
@XanderHenderson Looks like nonsense to me. :)
 
@XanderHenderson nonsense, methinks.
 
Okay. I don't feel bad about voting to close, then. ;)
 
4:50 PM
@amWhy Hey - we agree!!! :)
 
@MarkMcClure ;-) Indeed!
 
@XanderHenderson I voted as "not about mathematics", but I guess "unclear" is equally true.
 
I would suspect that we all agree far more often than not. It is that little $\varepsilon$-ball of disagreement that causes difficulty. :)
2
 
Agreed.
 
@amWhy and @user21820 I'm honestly sorry that things got a bit ugly. I hope that you guys understand that there is some suspicion of the actions coming out of this room and I think it might do some good if you can look at that objectively. That was my motivation but I can understand that it might not have come off that way.
Now, I'm going to go DV that question.
 
4:57 PM
@MarkMcClure I'm also sorry if you felt uncomfortable with anything I said. I will trash any of my responses to you that you may still find objection to.
 
@MarkMcClure I beg to differ. I belong to those whose comments were moved, and I have to admit they were off-topic, indeed, and should be removed from this room (having a rather well defined purpose). If people feel they should be deleted at all, I'm not sure I'd object.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:50 PM
This question is up for deletion: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2663518/…
 
8:26 PM
Consider this PSQ, please.
 
9:05 PM
What is unfortunate about that question, @amWhy, is that there is a good question buried inside, related to actually computing the sine and cosine of $\pi/3$ and $\pi/6$, as well as a nice geometric answer. It is frustrating that the original questioner didn't bother to actually ask that question. :\
 
@XanderHenderson Yes, that is unfortunate.
Oh, and yes, TGIF!!!
 
10:31 PM
NOTE RE ABOVE MESSAGE/COMMENI. the post I link above was put on hold on Feb. 12, 2018, and is now closed, and it is 11 days since it's closure. Hence, it is now open for deletion.
 
10:42 PM
@XanderHenderson o/
 
\o
a certain user is really getting under my skin this afternoon---answering no effort PSQs within a minute or two of posting
for example: here and here
 
@XanderHenderson Yikes, I know what that feels like!
 
if the question can be answered in less than a minute after it is posted, then it is probably a worthless question, and should be closed... we shouldn't be encouraging those kinds of questions! >:(
 
@XanderHenderson I agree; and that user does the same every day... I'll come back later to consider those posts (out of votes for now).
 
How did answers to that question get so many upvotes?!
 
10:57 PM
@XanderHenderson OMG I hadn't seen that. Ridiculous... And it's a dupe, but that doesn't seem to stop wanna-be-rep-hoarders.
 
11:26 PM
1 message moved to trash
 
11:39 PM
Please downvote and delete this one, the answer-er don't even know what they question is asking.
 
@JohnMa I'll have to think about that; seems it might be premature to do so. The answerer might be busy, and may come back shortly to edit the answer. Benefit of the doubt, hey?
 
@amWhy Do you mean we should wait until they finish studying power series of a matrix?
 
@JohnMa I've got 12 minutes to wait out and I'll be able to help ;-)
 

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