CRUDE - 2019-07-16

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Xander Henderson

3:25 AM

How did this get two upvotes in three minutes?!

6 hours later…

darij grinberg

9:33 AM

This is a useful question that shouldn't be on the D list.

fixed context

3 hours later…

user21820

12:21 PM

@XanderHenderson @RRL @JyrkiLahtonen: Total nonsense; all rational polynomials have computable roots.

1 hour later…

Martin R

1:24 PM

This question looks unclear to me: It asks “Why does 2 times the geometric mean represent a minimum value?” and “what is the intuition to apply the AM-GM inequality” without presenting the concrete problem. – The current answers explain the intuition for the AM-GM inequality itself, which (I think) is a different question.

Xander Henderson

2:14 PM

@darijgrinberg I find your comment that the question "shouldn't be on the D list" to be disingenuous. The question, as it was original posed, should have been on the delete list. You took the time to improve it (thank you for that). Rather than making a comment which implies that the question was unjustly put on the delete list, perhaps say "I improved [this question]. Please consider reopening (or not deleting) it."

darij grinberg

2:36 PM

@XanderHenderson: You're right. I actually made the comment first and then thought I could improve it instead, sorry.

1 hour later…

user21820

3:55 PM

D1, D2, D3.

D4, D5, D6.

D7, D8, D9.

D10, D11, D12.

darij grinberg

4:26 PM

D1 has what looks like a good pedagogical answer

not voting to reopen, but not a case for D either

D8 has a good answer and at least OP gave the source

1 hour later…

Peter

5:48 PM

@Mathphile I have made considerable progress on your conjectures !

rschwieb

6:34 PM

What do you think about this math.stackexchange.com/questions/3295046/…

Xander Henderson

@rschwieb That is a work of art.

@darijgrinberg D1 is a poor question. It was properly closed, and it looks like it was closed about as quickly as the system generally allows (it takes time for questions to go through review). Not deleting it (or gasp reopening it, as seems to be a likely outcome in the near future) only encourages future answerers to answer terrible questions.

Moreover, there seems to be an established consensus that merely possessing a good answer is not enough to prevent deletion. In general, a question should be judged on the basis of the question. The only time that an answer should save a question from deletion is if the answer is extraordinary. I don't see that in this case.

The question itself is both lacking context and too broad, and the answer is fine, but not amazing. I see no reason to keep the question.

@darijgrinberg Similarly, I see no reason to keep D8, though I feel less strongly.

darij grinberg

7:05 PM

Once again, I greatly doubt how much of an effect the existing question archive has on newbies asking crappy questions. They aren't generally of the kind that read before posting.

Xander Henderson

It isn't about preventing bad questions; it is about preventing folk from answering bad questions.

It is about discouraging people from answering bad questions, in the hopes that (in the long term) newbies don't see bad questions, and cannot cite bad questions as examples of the kind of thing which is acceptable here.

darij grinberg

There, I'm afraid, you're more likely to cause chilling effects.

My impression is that not everyone gets what counts as a bad question to you or others in this channel. This is a more subjective question than it appears.

Xander Henderson

By calling it a "chilling effect," you are saying exactly what I am saying, but using charged language to do so.

darij grinberg

Is "I've tried induction and failed" = work shown? Is "this appears in this book I'm reading" = context?

Xander Henderson

Are you really going to argue that D1 is a good question?

darij grinberg

7:11 PM

"I have proved that (a) is clearly false, also (b) and (d) are false by taking proper examples." This is sufficient by the letter. Probably not by the spirit, but how much should one be hanging around this channel to know the spirit?

Xander Henderson

What do you mean by "it is sufficient by the letter"?

darij grinberg

Same for D8, where it is pretty hard to take an appropriate first step, and "JBMO problem booklet" is as good a source as any (those places normally don't cite previous sources).

Xander Henderson

What letter?

darij grinberg

letter of the law

Xander Henderson

@darijgrinberg I'm not arguing D8.

darij grinberg

7:12 PM

The standard "off-topic" close banner mentions "possible strategies, your current progress"

Xander Henderson

And what law?

Have you read the linked answer?

darij grinberg

I'm not a big fan of D8, which is a good example of an exercise that was too obviously reverse-engineered from its answer. But the solution looks interesting.

Xander Henderson

As I see it, "(a), (b), and (d) are wrong" with zero justification is not context.

@darijgrinberg Again, I'm trying to stay focused on D1.

darij grinberg

actually, I wasn't aware of this answer!

Xander Henderson

Which answer?

darij grinberg

7:14 PM

the one you just linked

Xander Henderson

Okay, but that answer is linked in the close dialog.

When a question is closed for lack of context, that answer is linked.

darij grinberg

yeah, I see -- I guess I got too de-sensitivized to hyperlinks

Xander Henderson

Personally, I find "showing your work" to be the least useful form of context. However, if one is going to take that as context, then the complete quote from the meta answer is releant:

> Include your work

You have a question, and if you post it here, you've probably attempted, and failed, to solve it yourself. It is much easier for others to judge the most appropriate "level" for an answer to your question if you provide these attempts. So you'll receive answers better suited to your specific needs.

Including your work also shows to the community that you're not using this website as an answer machine -- as such, your question will be received more positively.

A further benefit of writing down precisely what you've tried is that, in the process of doing so, you will ve…

"(a) and (c) are false" is not showing any work per the above quoted material. Why are (a) and (c) false? How did you determine that? For the other answers, did you try anything? Did you find counterexamples, or examples?

etc.

If the only context provided is an attempt, then it should be as complete and precise as possible.

As a reductio ad absurdum, suppose that posted a question which reads "I just took a True / False exam. Here are 5 questions. (1) is false and (4) is true. What about the rest?" Would that be context enough to preserve the question? I don't see D1 as being any different (except that it lacks the context provided by "I just took an exam").

darij grinberg

Yeah, the OP hasn't done a good job. My main point is still about the answer, not the question.

Xander Henderson

@darijgrinberg If we agree that the question is not good, then the next question is "Is the answer so extraordinary that it deserves to be memorialized?"

darij grinberg

7:24 PM

I think my criteria for memorialization are just less stringent than yours, so this discussion might not lead very far. But I also think this channel has atypically strict criteria compared to most of answer-active m.se.

My criteria are essentially "mathematically correct, not misleading, potentially useful".

It's free content, what's not to like.

Xander Henderson

That is my criteria for a good question. That is very different from the criteria for a truly extraordinary question.

And too much free content clogs search.

darij grinberg

Speaking of deletion: Bad answer.

I don't think questions like D1 and D8 are bad for search. The answers aren't less useful and instructive than answers to most good questions.

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