ATTENTION GUYS

← 3 messages moved from Charcoal HQ

Has anyone else here recently, (yesterday/today) received what are likely retaliatory downvotes?

I have not received downvotes, but I am fairly non-vocal

@XanderHenderson So because I speak up, I get and should expect downvotes on entirely unrelated work? I am hardly the only one who spoke up in the last two days. But I seem to be some users' favorite target.

@JackD'Aurizio I received a downvote yesterday, and two more today. After an earlier previous episode, I thought things were dealt with. Can you tell me whether it is appropriate, from your persective, for users to downvote a user's post out of spite due to disagreements in meta? Are arguments on meta a valid reason to track down a user and downvote their first listed question and first listed answer (most recent?)

Well thands for the support, @XanderHenderson

@amWhy First, I hope I've never been rude to you and apologize if you've ever perceived our interactions that way. I certainly don't ever intend to ridicule or shame anyone here. Having said that, I certainly think that you are someone that I prefer to be reserved and cautious with.

For starters, you freely use the term "rep whores" in spite of the fact that you yourself were banned for a full year - evidently, for organizing a voting ring. More recently, you answered this question, which frankly seems worthy of deletion by the "standards" you express. I think you simply don't hold yourself to the same standards to which you hold others - either in terms of quality or civility.

You are very rude and dismissive to at least one moderator, Jack D'Aurizio, in spite of the fact, he's a duly elected moderator. I understand that you think that he shouldn't answer PSQs and, to be honest, I think he over answers them, too. But not everyone feels that way and the fact that he does answer them doesn't make him a bad person or, even, a bad moderator.

In part you are very misinformed; and you don't have historical facts straight. There was never any "voting ring", nor any sort of organization of whatever that would look like. I never called Jack A a bad person. I've simply reminded him he's a moderator.... And you continue to be very rude and dismissive of me, as you have since we first discussed matters here. Anything new?

@MarkMcClure If you want to come to this chat, you're more than welcome. But please refrain from personal attacks. And, in any case, targeting me with downvotes out of anger and vengeance is sophmoric, and inappropriate on this site. I'm not saying you did, but I don't know.

"I certainly don't ever intend to ridicule or shame anyone here." Huh? You just tried to.

You even brought along a side-kick to upvote your comments, @MarkMcClure.

Hi, @Jack! Long time no see!

To be honest, that doesn't seem like any more of a personal attack than "Not quick enough, @Jack, when you've been proven to intervene and change questions to something entirely different, to organize reopen campaigns, upvote posts out of pity, for some ill-conceived notion of justice?" Both are just statements about a user's behavior.

Although, I don't know if the voting ring statement is true, since I haven't been here for that long

There's a big difference, @bames, and it's clear you don't know the context of my comments.

In any case, @bames, the purpose of this chat is not to berate users.

@amWhy You were stating that @Jack has a history of engaging in questionable behavior. @MarkMcClure is stating that your behavior has not exactly been perfect either. Not really that different. And weren't you guys berating @JackD'Aurizio for not doing a good job as a mod yesterday?

@bames And was this an attempt to test out this chatroom? This isn't about level of question, as you were told a number of times; it's about an asker's willingness to contribute/participate in finding a solution. And in any case, if you aren't interested in "Closing, Reopening, undeleting, deleting, or editing questions, according to your own beliefs, sitting in a chatroom to scold other users on what's right and wrong.

@bames I didn't do that here, dear bames. Everyone here, including you, are unique, and behave differently. I am not another user who comes here, nor another user who comes here, nor another user who comes here, ... nor you. We are individuals. I did not condemn Jack here, in this room. Don't put everyone participating in this room in one lump category. "If one user from Crude said this... then everyone who set foot in this room did the same". Welcome to the club, @bames, you did too

@bames You're all pretense, it seems, with an agenda. You're welcome to sit on the sidelines, or address C R U D E concerns, but please refrain from interrupting, in matters you know nothing about.

@amWhy This is totally unrelated to the question that I asked. I already thanked you guys for clarifying your position what constitutes a bad question. Why are you bringing that up?

@amWhy also, I am not "scolding" you. I'm just pointing out that Mark is not really doing anything that different from what you do outside the chatroom. I am pointing something out, no "scolding"

@amWhy I don't know why you automatically take the position of being "attacked" when someone disagrees with one thing you said. I'm not disagreeing with you that Jack's actions are questionable...

I mean plain "Jack" not the mod Jack D'Aurizio. I haven't really read his activity page.

I did not say you are "attacking me". You are putting words in my mouth. You speak/advise, comment on matters you know nothing about, hence my request to slow down, and recognized you don't know everything MSE... not suggesting that you believe you do, just that you are acting like you're in a position to advise me, and I disagree.

Again, I'm not trying to "advise" you. I'm simply pointing out that what Mark said is not very different from the kinds of things that you said quite often on Meta, and in your thread on one of @JackD'Aurizio 's answers. You can do with that what you will. I'm not telling you to change your behavior...

@bames are you following me? stalking me? Because it's awfully weird to keep track of which posts I've visited, and what I've written, here, then there, and then again here. But if you're also keeping track of my posts, that might explain some recent downvotes.

No, that's ridiculous. I read this post on meta: math.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/27918/…, and read one of the links THAT WAS POSTED HERE EARLIER

that hardly constitutes stalking

And it's not me that was downvoting you. If you go to my activity page, you won't find a single reputation change from a downvote.

@amWhy I'm sorry, I know how much people hate "I've told you so", but I didn't tell you that your handling of such things isn't optimal just to be right. And when your paranoia kicks in ("stalking me?") you make it worse. Please, relax!

Well, don't intervene when you have only bits and pieces of info, and many of those bits misrepresented.

well actually, I was downvoted yesterday...but what I meant was you won't find a reputation change from a downvote that I gave.

@ProfessorVector No prof vector, you said something vague about something vague being suboptimal, but you never clarified. Not paranoid, and I'm sorry @bames, because I don't have any reason to think you would downvote me.

@amWhy It's ok. I just want you to know that I'm not 100% against you, so no need to react that way!

When you become as active as many users here, @ProfessorVector, I'd like to here more from you. As is, you cast your votes in anonymity, never taking initiative, usually only comment here and not on questions, and you suddenly disappearing when your actions, our actions come under scrutiny. It's might feel nice and safe to be able to judge others who are far more engaged, from your safe little silent seat, but it's not really relevant.

oops: that's "I'd like to hear more from you."

But, in any case, everything is good, everything is great, thanks a ton to you @bames and @ProfessorVector ... Now can we please end this session of "attack amWhy"?

@bames thanks, sincerely. I was wrong to have come down strong on you. Mark's comments became a bit overwhelming to me. You've got my respect.

@amWhy That's exactly what I mean: when you're not right, you tend to get entirely irrational. Of course, I don't cast my close votes in anonymity, my name is inevitably displayed among those who put a question on hold (and I don't have a problem with that). I didn't "disappear" when people questioned our actions, I said explicitly that I don't approve of downvoting answers just because the question was bad, and left the rest to other people handling that far better than me or you.

What makes you think you are right, @ProfessorVector. That's just as irrational as you claim I am. When you're not right, you tend to get condescending to others.

@amWhy Please, amWhy, this is a mathematics site. Prove you're right. Or (at the very least) disprove what I said. Believe me or not, but in that case, I'd apologize publicly.

And back at you, @ProfessorVector.

@amWhy ?

I'm not trying to prove anything about being "right". You're the one who has framed the issue as such. You are far more interested in being "right" than I am. As you said, this is a math site. Where's the proof of what is right or wrong, or whether you are right, or not? Don't ask others to prove what you feel you have a privilege to claim.

In any case, @ProfessorVector I did not come here to argue with you. I did not ask you to intervene. You clearly have strong feelings, and so do I; that doesn't make you more right or me more wrong. I ask you to let it go, and if you persist, I will no longer acknowledge any further provocations from you. Cheers!

@amWhy No, why would I. I've told you that preaching isn't a popular method, and you may regard success as a criterion if that's really so (you won't, I bet). It's not really my problem, so why would I go out of my way? I'm here because you invited me, in a comment deleted soon after by an angry moderator (whom I can understand very well). And I say what I think because I think so (knowing full well that I may be wrong).

@ProfessorVector I'm glad you're participating in this chatroom! Sincerely, I would not have invited you here if I did not believe you would be a great asset to the room.

@amWhy LOL! Do you know what has the most entertainment value in the known (to me) part of the universe? That's the words after "I know" in 99% of the questions.

@amWhy You specifically asked in a public chat room why people are sometimes dismissive of you. I responded calmly and politely; that is not a personal attack. I sincerely hope you consider softening your criticisms of others and focus on the answering questions, which you are very good at. And thank you!

@ProfessorVector @ProfessorVector In all sincerity, I don't understand this comment.

@amWhy You'll hate my advice, but... don't mix gender into this, please. If you want to be perceived specifically as a person of a certain gender, choose an appropriate nick, please. The quote is nice, but I'm afraid Ghandi would laugh at you. He was a Hindu nationalist, and certainly not a feminist.

@ProfessorVector Now you are nonsensical and irrational. Ghandi has nothing to do with anything I've said. If gender inclusion among some men makes them seething in desire to dismiss, humiliate...women who they refuse to see as colleagues, regardless of the merits of their contributions, then it is an issue. You could use a good dose of humility, yourself.

@ProfessorVector You might hate my advice, but ... don't mix arrogance into any attempt to understand.

@amWhy Your "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" is a Ghandi quote, don't blame that on my, please. Concerning humility: when I broke my backbone in a riding accident, I was helpless enough to be cleaned (I couldn't do that myself) after shitting. By very young nurses still studying. Tell me anything about "humiliating" I didn't know, please. You just hate to be wrong.

I don't hate to be wrong. But I hate engaging with others, like you, who hate to be wrong.

Okay, dear @ProfessorVector, I'm not going to participate in your further provocations. So I bid you farewell, as of now. Relax, chill, get some sleep?. I said nothing today that was wrong. You may have disagreed with a few points, but neither your opinion nor mine is wrong. Go antagonize another user, and stop trying to demean me. But it is sad, altogether, that you feel a compulsion to demean anyone!

Proof that I hate to be wrong will be delivered? I hope you understood by now that I entirely accept your freedom of belief, but still, this is a mathematics site.

@ProfessorVector You claimed I hate to be wrong, first. With no proof, only your biased opinion. In turn, I recognize that "being right" is a stronger drive in you, than in me. Where's your proof? you are simply resorting to irrationality, I'm afraid.

While you provided proof to your opinion? Please... isn't there a "logician" in your profile?

@ProfessorVector You are the one swaggeringaround with opinions and advice for all. Start listening to your own advice and criticism of others, and apply it to yourself, because it is certainly relevant to you, before you strike out at others. And striking out at others doesn't eradicate, your own inaccurate self.

Good night all!!

@amWhy I'm sorry, could you please point out a specific point where I was impolite? Another day is fine and good night. :)

@amWhy "you emptiness, so said to say" erm, sorry for asking but are you drinking or smoking?

@ProfessorVector huh? Methinks you're confused.

@amWhy Maybe, but that doesn't make your sentence English, or any language I know.

@amWhy I am not suggesting that speaking up makes you deserving of the shittery that is going on; only that I am not on the receiving end because no one knows who I am.

@XanderHenderson o/ No worries!

:43017029 "You are the one swaggeringaround"...

Please, that's hopeless. Yes, you may be right I'm arrogant: when I think I'm right, I may insist. Or I may not, if your opinion is uninteresting for me.

Wow, two messages removed, were they really that offensive?! I don't remember, honestly, but I can't imagine amWhy cursing or something like that...

@ProfessorVector My deletion of my post, your deletion due to an SE site mod's deletion due to offensiveness. Maybe that brings back the recognition of your bullying.

Bullying? I speak my mind, as you do yours. Real bullying would cause nausea in me.