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Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
12:04 AM
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
I am so full of rage
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@whatsisname any particular reason?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@whatsisname well, you are a grouch..
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa chat user will die eventually just like tags without questions
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
this damn library and android
 
user114359
12:05 AM
Did anyone read his final comment and connect the dots between the comments?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@whatsisname robots need to go to library's too!
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@Snowman I had too many other things to do, did you?
 
Peter Tòmas Scott
Peter Tòmas Scott
@Snowman Not me
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Snowman SE chat is a completely separate system; that said he may still have that wiped too
actually you may be right; now that I think about it the auth for chat goes through SE
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
the documentation is complete dog shit and it's obnoxious developing for phones/tablets
 
user114359
12:09 AM
@Ixrec Yes, it appears he was arguing with Thomas and that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Based on the wording, it would appear he was unhappy with his leadership as a moderator, at least that is how I read it.
 
user114359
@MichaelT I'm opposed to such drastic rewrites, especially when they would invalidate the answer given. Even though it's about a specific homework question, the answer may be usable by other people since it provides a more generic explanation of the methodology used to calculate the data. As far as the connected city problem, I agree, but am more concerned that no one prompted the asker for the information needed to make the question better (either for our site or for migration somewhere else). — Thomas Owens ♦ Mar 9 at 12:46
 
user114359
I agree, but am more concerned that no one prompted the asker for the information needed to make the question better (either for our site or for migration somewhere else). It is key to lead by example. programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312743 programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312761 programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312721 . I'm tired and done. Its someone else's turn now. Go through the recently closed list, check to see where there is confusion and better guidance for users. Thats what the 10k mod tools are for. — user40980 yesterday
 
user114359
there were a few other frustrated comments attached to that answer as well.
 
Peter Tòmas Scott
Peter Tòmas Scott
From the Whiteboard: I am now of the opinion that SE has moved from Q&A to almost social network. Joel won. Thu 10:50
SE seems to be consistently pushing us away from (or not helping with focus) in the site as a Q&A site. More views. Broad questions. Expand the scope. Thu 10:53
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I'm watching Dan Friedman answer questions at the Lisp meetup, any questions for him?
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
12:12 AM
android studio is also slow as mollasses and uses tons of ram
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Someone fork a suggestion of "Bubbles" for BTH for April.
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
nooooo
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
yes
remember, I'm going to write a Python script to randomly select the name I like the most.
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
ok
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
That way it's fair.
 
user114359
12:15 AM
@PeterTòmasScott I remember those comments too. I think he is right to some extent, I am just not sure it was bad enough to quit.
 
user114359
But losing a very active 20k+ user who maxed his votes each day is going to sting.
 
Peter Tòmas Scott
Peter Tòmas Scott
Quite so.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
last chance! heading to the Python meetup!
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
12:58 AM
last chance for what?
oh
 
whatsisname
whatsisname
 
 
1 hour later…
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
2:20 AM
ugh C++ really is just one big giant abstraction leak
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
2:43 AM
That's why you need Python.
Correct behavior all day long.
 
 
1 hour later…
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
3:54 AM
ok, everyone have a great night and a pleasant tomorrow, or else!
 
 
1 hour later…
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
4:59 AM
@AaronHall Just don't get one as a pet.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
5:17 AM
FWIW, I'm sorry to see MichaelT go. I had no idea he felt so strongly about his views on scope and site direction, if that's in fact what caused him to leave. Perhaps he didn't like the direction the conversations were going on meta, or perhaps he simply lacked the time or the will
...but the fact that conversations about site scope are happening again is actually a good thing, I think.
Some of the "new normal" is different that what I thought it was going to be, but I think that's a good thing too.
 
 
2 hours later…
Duga
Duga
7:08 AM
 
 
1 hour later…
Duga
Duga
8:12 AM
Questions that ask "where do I start" are typically too broad and are not a good fit for this site. People have their own method for approaching the problem and because of this there cannot be a correct answer. Give a good read over Where to Start, then address your post. — SmokeDispenser just now
 
Duga
Duga
8:39 AM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is off-topic for stackoverflow. It might be better suited to Programmers or Workplace. — dandan78 13 secs ago
 
Froxer
Froxer
9:06 AM
remap front headset jack to back, easily doable or nop ?
r.i.p'ed the inside of the jack most likely by headset cord. Lesson learned to not have the cord just hanging but to actually set it up so that it cant get stuck in the chair or other objects.
 
 
2 hours later…
Ixrec
Ixrec
11:24 AM
that was a bit scary...I did a git rebase, and somehow half the work I'd done on this branch disappeared
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec wat
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I ended up doing a "manual rebase" (i.e. sequence of cherry-pick commands) from ORIG_HEAD onto master and now all my work is there, but with a different merge conflict on commit 3/4 than the one I remember fixing during the normal rebase attempt
 
enderland
enderland
git rebase -i <commit to rebase to>
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I am very aware of rebase -i
but when a git command does something you don't expect, the solution is not to try a more complex version of the command, it's to try a sequence of simpler commands
 
enderland
enderland
now I'm confused why you were manually doing it then :P
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
11:27 AM
@enderland like I just said, I did it "manually" after the regular rebase dropped half my work
 
enderland
enderland
oh, after. sorry :)
I missed that
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
ah ok
what I'm guessing happened is that the merge conflict I got during the normal rebase included some trivial stuff I fixed and a non-trivial thing I somehow forgot to fix and thereby nuked the file containing most of the branch's changes
 
enderland
enderland
I've seen some weird auto merging with rebase, too
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
and the different merge conflict I got when doing it "manually" made that part more obvious so I fixed it correctly
 
enderland
enderland
because it inverts yours/theirs
@JimmyHoffa RIP chat user :(
 
enderland
enderland
12:27 PM
@gnat I somehow missed this yesterday :(
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
morning
Yay it's gonna be really hot
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
something about this branch is confusing the hell out of git, again a normal rebase just doesn't do anything sensible
 
enderland
enderland
how are you rebasing?
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
you should try SVN
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@enderland git checkout feature-branch; git rebase master
nothing weird about the command
 
enderland
enderland
12:42 PM
@Ixrec did you pull the latest master branch?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
"is the computer plugged in?"
 
enderland
enderland
hey I don't know :P
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
also the issue is it dropping stuff on the feature branch over merge conflicts that don't exist, so master being up to date is irrelevant
anyway, back to hacking around git with git
 
enderland
enderland
did you try rebasing to the commit hash?
I've started rebasing to a specific commit hash as this seems to help, since you at least know what it is rebasing to. like: git rebase <hash>
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
also not the issue
I'm pretty sure it's something to do with linebreaks
 
enderland
enderland
12:46 PM
oh weird
enderland is out of ideas
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
@enderland and not even 30 yet!
RIP
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I have hacked around git with Notepad++
hopefully it stops throwing hissy fits now
 
enderland
enderland
I'm really curious what your issue was
though it sounds like you are unaware of the root problem, too?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I have absolutely no idea what the root problem was
 
enderland
enderland
do you use a diff tool?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
12:53 PM
I could understand it sometimes ignoring and sometimes paying attention to linebreak changes, but the random ignoring of half the changes in that other file just doesn't make any sense
no
 
enderland
enderland
I finally broke down and installed meld
I would be very curious what it showed in your merge conflict situation
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
1:04 PM
you should try CVS
 
enderland
enderland
1:24 PM
@Snowman how could you
-2
Q: Download platform to learn ASP.NET for Win XP

SnowmanI would like to learn ASP.NET and download from ASP.NetMVC4 but it's for Win 7/8. Is there any version for Win XP? Or I should upgrade the OS to Win 7/8? [Reference] How to learn ASP.NET MVC without learning ASP.NET Web forms How to properly learn ASP.NET MVC Which platform to choose, Java or...

asp.net-mvc-4
 
Rachel
Rachel
1:42 PM
@RobertHarvey I am also sorry to see him go... I think he's a huge part of maintaining the site to where it is now, and appreciated a lot of his meta posts for new users.
 
enderland
enderland
here's a good one which would not mind seeing some delete votes... heh programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312916/52929
 
Ampt
Ampt
Happy There's-not-enough-coffee-in-the-world-to-keep-me-from-murdering-someone day!
 
Rachel
Rachel
lol the "reopen-all-the-things" monster inside of me is looking at that with a "huh I had no idea about that definition of "unicorn bubble" in relation to tech startups". I don't understand why it wasn't closed as Off Topic though
 
enderland
enderland
-1
Q: Classes and friends of classes

user150297I am learning c++ and I am stuck in a question I want to define a class and a friend of that class in different headers how can I do this?

c++ class friends
man today is misery again
 
Ampt
Ampt
holy shit what happened to @MichaelT
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
1:48 PM
 
enderland
enderland
that was a fast answer to your question
also my reaction to checking chat this morning was the same @Ampt :(
 
Ampt
Ampt
fuck. I was already having a shit morning and now this?
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
I noticed yesterday when his name wasn't clickable on a question he closed
 
enderland
enderland
@Ampt I was trying to figure out a better chat message to express this than the very descriptive one that gnat put, but couldn't really come up with anything....
@Rachel another benefit of downvoting questions is it is an easy smoke check on main to see what questions to VtC
 
Ampt
Ampt
When did he delete his chat account?
 
Rachel
Rachel
1:57 PM
@enderland My view of downvotes of questions is they are indicators to A) OP that they need to fix something (in which case, we need to tell them what) or B) other users that the question is not worth their time
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
the chat account deletes itself after enough time apparently
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel I often skim main and open downvoted questions and nearly always VtC them
 
Rachel
Rachel
That is why I don't like downvoting questions too far, because fixable questions can be turned around
 
enderland
enderland
especially for the older questions I wasn't around during the day for
 
Rachel
Rachel
I tend not to downvote unless I'm also willing to take the time to explain to user what is wrong, and my time is limited. I will sometimes downvote if a question is not already negative and I think it should be, but I almost never downvote if the question is already negative
 
enderland
enderland
1:58 PM
more negative questions also helps stop repeat posters
 
Rachel
Rachel
in my eyes, there's no point of adding more downvotes to something already downvoted.... I still remember my time as a new user to many SE sites, and a single downvote was plenty to get my attention. Extra downvotes just feel hostile in my eyes
 
enderland
enderland
and to be fair, today I'm going to be in a much more "release the CV and DV" mood than normal
sure but I'm not about to try to explain why this question is off topic - programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312919/52929
 
Rachel
Rachel
:) That's the beauty of community moderation.... everyone can use their votes however they want
 
Ampt
Ampt
So here's the problem I see with looking at it that way - if you take the current votes in to your process of voting, doesn't that essentially make all your votes correctional?
if you feel that a question has too many downvotes, you correct it by upvoting... but you aren't really saying that the question is good, are you?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@enderland I voted to close as off-topic with the close reason explaining that implementation and debugging questions were off-topic for the site. That's a good enough explanation for me
@Ampt I do not upvote negative content merely to reduce the number of downvotes...
 
Ampt
Ampt
2:01 PM
but you fail to apply a downvote to a bad question because it's already been downvoted, no?
isn't that pretty much the same thing?
 
Rachel
Rachel
5 mins ago, by Rachel
@enderland My view of downvotes of questions is they are indicators to A) OP that they need to fix something (in which case, we need to tell them what) or B) other users that the question is not worth their time
In my eyes, adding an extra downvote to something already downvoted does not accomplish one of those two tasks
 
enderland
enderland
I suspect speedy deleting is going to change significantly here, but it would also help with that
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Can someone post a link to gnats explanation to ehy he left
 
Rachel
Rachel
@DeliriousSyntax You mean this one? meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/7930/…
 
enderland
enderland
16 hours ago, by gnat
I agree, but am more concerned that no one prompted the asker for the information needed to make the question better (either for our site or for migration somewhere else). It is key to lead by example. programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312743 programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312761 programmers.stackexchange.com/q/312721 . I'm tired and done. Its someone else's turn now. Go through the recently closed list, check to see where there is confusion and better guidance for users. Thats what the 10k mod tools are for. — user40980 22 hours ago
 
Rachel
Rachel
2:08 PM
He didn't really explain why he left, so it's mostly speculation
 
enderland
enderland
read the transcript starting around there
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Oh
Ok
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
2:20 PM
that comment is the closest thing anyone's found to an explanation so far
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Has anyone tried contacting him?
Its weird to just leave because of one argument maybe there was something else wrong
 
Rachel
Rachel
It may have been something that he's been thinking over for a while...
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
I've only stayedd in this chat because of like 4 main people michael barrythehatchet ixrec and ender kinda sad to see one leave
 
Rachel
Rachel
I think the recent discussions about how hostile the community is may have been his tipping point. He's always been good about creating content for new-users, and does his best to lead-by-example with guiding new users
 
enderland
enderland
When I read rants telling people actively shoveling crap where to put it, how to do it, what tools to use, how high to stack it, those posts miss the point - someone has to shovel the crap. And when the shovelers read complaints by people who don't do anything for community moderation and have a "you guys suck fix it!" type of tone to it? It's incredibly demoralizing. I am thankful to see your comments on main, because this is what P.SE needs. More people actually doing things. Actually voting to close off topic questions. Editing/commenting. Voting to delete. — enderland 2 days ago
he takes the brunt of that more than anyone else
 
Rachel
Rachel
2:27 PM
Its too much work for one person though, or even 5 people. The site draws too many poor quality questions for the scope defined, and it's a huge burden on users to keep maintaining it and educating so many new users
 
Yannis
Yannis
saw 1 rep, and I thought someone had suspended @Snowman
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
I'd hate to have to pay for a doxing site to get his email to message him but if that is what it takes
 
Ampt
Ampt
@DeliriousSyntax Let the man have his peace.
@Yannis No, but if you could un-suspend @MichaelT that'd be great.
 
enderland
enderland
@Yannis you could still do that
 
Yannis
Yannis
@Ampt I wish it was that simple...
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
2:36 PM
I guess I need to post more answers so I have enough rep to mod.
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Maybe it just kills me knowing that he wasted so much time on this site then just to throw it away
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
All I can do is flag
 
Ampt
Ampt
@DeliriousSyntax He didn't waste anything. The years and years he spent here are all reflected in the sheer number and quality of the questions we have.
 
Yannis
Yannis
@DeliriousSyntax Wasted? His answers are still there, and will always be there, educating us ad infinitum...
 
enderland
enderland
@DeliriousSyntax it's only a waste if you value the precious points... I still like helping people and writing and writing even if it's all eventually deleted from SE's servers someday it will still be meaningful to me
 
Ampt
Ampt
2:37 PM
It was never about the Rep for him - he was in it for the betterment of the site, which is why this is such a tragedy for everyone.
2
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Maybe he's busy?
 
Rachel
Rachel
The amount of work he put into meta posts for explaining the site is definitely not a waste, and probably contributes to the site still being around now
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Its like working your entire life to land a job and then once you work your first day you just quit
 
enderland
enderland
@DeliriousSyntax but retirement is so wonderful...
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I think it needs to be a little harder to ask questions here than on the other sites. You basically need to jump through several hoops and sign a statement in triplicate swearing on your life that you know you're asking a good question. Or maybe a proposed questions queue that vets new questions before going live.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
2:42 PM
<insert links to gnat asking for the latter on all the metas>
2
 
Ampt
Ampt
@AaronHall heh, the number of clicks to post has increased noticeably but it's simply not enough
 
Yannis
Yannis
Alternatively, we could make gimmetehcodez on topic.
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
clicking is hardly a hoop, the impulsive buggers are all clickety click click it'srealeasyman.
 
enderland
enderland
@Yannis no that's Stack Overflow
lol
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
we might actually see a mass exodus of answerers if we widened the scope that much
 
Rachel
Rachel
2:47 PM
I've taken Michael's list of questions and compared them for if I'd ask the question on The Whiteboard vs Programmers, and noticed a big difference between the recent question types compared to older ones
In the past, it seemed the main problem was scope was unclear and users had trouble understanding, but now I am seeing much more people saying "This is a Q&A site called Programmers, I can ask anything"
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
agreed, I suspect that's because we've mostly solved the "SO thinks we take anything" problem and now our junk comes primarily from total newbies unfamiliar with SE as a whole
 
Rachel
Rachel
maybe it's just the change as time passes and people forget P.SE history, or the change as people become more aware of SE, or a new generation of programmers who weren't around when SO and P.SE first started
 
enderland
enderland
I think a good exercise for anyone is to force yourself to vote on every question you read here for a day
 
StackExchange
StackExchange
20
Q: 4 years later - Can we change our site name?

RachelFour years ago we asked for a name change, which was rejected by SE because there was no evidence to support the claim it was causing user confusion, and there were other things the site should focus on first. Now four years later, users have done all that they can and things are not improving i...

feature-request featured site-attributes
 
Rachel
Rachel
Its like in the past, we had SE/SO users who were new to P.SE. Now we have a lot of entirely new users who have never heard of SE in general
 
enderland
enderland
2:49 PM
@StackExchange go home you're drunk
 
Rachel
Rachel
yay thanks @Yannis :)
 
enderland
enderland
oh weird, so feeds pulls in a "featured" tag edit
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
was that our automated meta feed just noticing that question?
 
Rachel
Rachel
No, Yannis tagged it as [featured]
 
Ampt
Ampt
-2
Q: Is this site failing? And should it go away?

MowzerFact 1 At the time I write this, 12 of the 15 questions on the questions front page have net downvotes. That is an extreme statistical outlier on stackexchange. Other sites tend to have between 1 and 3 net downvoted questions on the front page. This community has the highest netatively downvoted...

discussion closed-questions scope
It's meta questions like this that gets to me. "This site is too hard to ask questions on, maybe we should just delete it". FFS.
And then you see MichaelT's Analysis of 37 questions to prove the point that we simply get asked shit questions by the minute.
 
enderland
enderland
2:56 PM
why is the current ux for toggling to be buttons. stupid mobile apps
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
honestly, it's not even hard to ask a good question
 
enderland
enderland
a checkbox is so much easier to intuitively understand than a slider
@Ixrec ehhhh I disagree. a good objective question is easy(er) but a good subjective one is really hard
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@enderland harder, but nowhere near as hard as people often make it out to be
eg programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/312922/… is not a bad one, not great, but it's the sort of thing we're supposed to be getting asked here
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec I don't know if I agree with this - once you have an understanding of SE it's less that way but most people are really bad at rubber ducking things themselves
the hard part of writing a good subjective question is not making it an XY problem
 
Rachel
Rachel
the problem lately doesn't really seem to be "asking good questions", it's that we don't communicate our scope very well to brand new users who are not looking to make a significant time investment into a new site. They post first, and if it looks like something useful and they want to continue with, then they make the time investment to learn more. After reviewing Michael's list of questions, and a lot of other newly asked questions, that became clear to me
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
2:57 PM
most people literally aren't trying, there's a difference
 
DeliriousSyntax
DeliriousSyntax
Is anyone familiar with gearbest.com?
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec part of that is the context though, SE is unique in its format to nearly the entirety of the world/internet
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
my experience on forums was also that putting effort into one's posts paid off, even if it was less mandatory to do so
but w/e, this isn't the important part
 
enderland
enderland
I wonder if SE should just make it so you have to have the "ask a question" window open for at least 5 minutes on P.SE
I don't think that's a horrible idea
 
Ampt
Ampt
@Rachel I still maintain that a lot of our shite traffic comes from people who are question banned on SO and simply decide that we're "close enough" and post their bad questions
or people who have had little success with getting "Gimme teh codez" on SO and figure our smaller site will work better
OR people who have no idea that there's a difference between us and SO
Argh that question made my blood boil. Like we're over here not trying to figure out how to solve the problem of getting people to stop asking bad questions
 
Rachel
Rachel
3:04 PM
@Ampt We've asked Yannis for actual stats before about this, and it was actually a very small percentage at the time. It's easy enough to create new accounts on SO if that is the case
 
Ampt
Ampt
No, we LOVE having the front page beign downvoted
 
enderland
enderland
there is a lot of residual misunderstanding of site scope because of NPR days, too
we see this constantly from Duga
 
Ampt
Ampt
@Rachel Were those stats only people Q Banned @ SO? I think a fair amount of people simply create a new account for over here, or delete their SO account and create one here
there's quite a few people with 1 rep asking questions
where do they come from?
how did they end up here instead of SO?
 
Rachel
Rachel
@Ampt Because our site is called "Programmers", not "Stack Overflow"
tell me, as a new programmer which Q&A site are you more likely to click on and ask a question of?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
C'mon Programmers. Let's go!
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:06 PM
Hard to say - SO to me has had meaning ever since college, really.
 
Rachel
Rachel
I didn't even know what a StackOverflow Exception was when I first started
 
Ampt
Ampt
you google your error, you get an SO link
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Yeah, if you get Q-banned on SO, it should apply here.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RobertHarvey I love the random cheer inserted into chat... I read it with the mental sports chant voice lol
 
enderland
enderland
@Ampt it's pretty obvious many people don't google their errors, though :P
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:07 PM
@enderland They take screenshots and post them to Progs, OBVS
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Fun fact: the country that now produces the most SO traffic is India.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RobertHarvey I have a very small programming blog, and am always amazed at what countries top the "most visited from" at any given time
 
Ampt
Ampt
@RobertHarvey This surprises me 0%
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Another amusing fact: Version 5 of the frontend for the software where I work is being written by an offshore team of about 10 people. It's a complete rewrite. My boss is writing Version 6 concurrently, all by himself. He will be done with version 6 before the offshore team is done with version 5.
 
enderland
enderland
@RobertHarvey at least you're saving money outsourcing!
ok so dumb question, I'm using an opensource framework that is Apache 2.0 (or rather a base work of it is). I just need to include that license in my project right?
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
3:13 PM
When I was working on my MBA the consensus was that off-shoring work was very risky and the US business environment is increasingly wary of it.
 
Rachel
Rachel
@RobertHarvey A knowledgeable software developer is easily worth 5 unskilled ones :)
I am constantly amazed at the poor efficiency of very large companies...
 
enderland
enderland
I guess I should just ask this on main. too bad MichaelT isn't here.. this is the stuff he loved talking about, hah
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
 
enderland
enderland
> Section 4d of the license provides for attribution notices to be included with a work in a NOTICE file, such that the attribution notices will remain, in some form, within any derivative works. Apache projects MUST include correct NOTICE documents in every distribution.
ahh, that looks like the explanation I need
 
user114359
@Yannis that user is an imposter!
 
enderland
enderland
3:18 PM
@Snowman melt him!
 
user114359
So, we meet again... — Snowman 18 secs ago
 
Duga
Duga
Hi Alina, welcome to Stackoverflow. programmers.stackexchange.com may be able to help you out more. — Eric S just now
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
@EricS I disagree. Where did you get the idea that we want these kinds of questions on Programmers? — Aaron Hall 44 secs ago
 
Duga
Duga
Hi @EricS, Programmers actually has a very specific scope of questions they accept, and they would follow the same quality standards that are used across the Stack Exchange network. I do not think a question like this would go well on Programmers unless it was much more detailed and thought out. — Rachel just now
 
enderland
enderland
like that. we can't fix that.
we can fight a war, but there are so many clueless SO folks
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
3:30 PM
@AaronHall It just seemed like a place that could answer question not specific to a programming error. If there is another site, please do suggest it to help the user. — Eric S 2 mins ago
@EricS seriously, why do you think Programmers.SE is a good place to get an answer to this question? — Aaron Hall 25 secs ago
 
Duga
Duga
@EricS seriously, why do you think Programmers.SE is a good place to get an answer to this question? — Aaron Hall 33 secs ago
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
there's a saying about choosing your battles
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Mar 8 at 16:24, by Aaron Hall
They all come from well meaning naïfs on SO - just pop up a tool-tip when they type in programmers.stackexchange.com - "please only recommend programmers if you're absolutely certain it's on-topic and a good question for the site"
add to that:
Hi @EricS, Programmers actually has a very specific scope of questions they accept, and they would follow the same quality standards that are used across the Stack Exchange network. I do not think a question like this would go well on Programmers unless it was much more detailed and thought out. — Rachel 5 mins ago
 
Rachel
Rachel
geez why does it look like everyone is jumping on this poor guy
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I want to see if he's relying on some meta-post, or an unclear signpost somewhere.
 
Rachel
Rachel
3:35 PM
the tone of voice is one that is probably going to put him on the defensive
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Good, he'll defend himself by pointing at the reason he thought it was a good idea to recommend the site.
And we'll have a better understanding of the problem
 
Rachel
Rachel
@AaronHall There are ways of finding that out without seeming hostile and aggressive though :)
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I'm not grumpy. I'm being straightforward and honest.
 
Rachel
Rachel
I know that, we've had a lot of discussion in the past about how concise statements can be taken as hostile
I see it all the time, people get tired of the same thing happening repeatedly, and end up using the shortest simplest form to get their point or question across. It's often taken as aggressive by users that don't know better
 
enderland
enderland
0
Q: What are my obligations when using an Apache 2.0 library in an internal project?

enderlandFrom the Apache non-lawyer version of the license: It requires you to: include a copy of the license in any redistribution you may make that includes Apache software; provide clear attribution to The Apache Software Foundation for any distributions that include Apache software. ...

licensing apache-license apache2
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
3:41 PM
@Rachel "software architecture and design" and "algorithm and data structure concepts" are listed in the "If you have a question about..." and I felt this question would be better suited for P.SE instead of stack. I do agree the question is poorly worded and broad but I shared that link because I think we should try to help the user as much as possible. — Eric S 20 secs ago
 
Ampt
Ampt
@Rachel the problem is that we try, very hard, to be very nice and get no response. You can only keep it up for so long.
 
enderland
enderland
and most often people on SO respond well to the "this really isn't on topic on P.SE" response, this person is an outlier as that goes
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
also, you guys are following-up on this guy more than usual
 
Rachel
Rachel
@Ampt it does get tiring, and that's why I've said for 5 years now that the site needs a name change. Its misleading, and only leads to more work by the active users that try to maintain content :)
@Ixrec Aaron started it :)
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I don't think he's reacting any differently from the usual Duga victim
 
Rachel
Rachel
3:48 PM
@Ixrec its not necessarily his response that matters though, it's the response of a lot of people - OP, person we are talking to, and drive-by visitors who see the comment chain
 
enderland
enderland
@Rachel most questions that duga posts here end up closed and eventually deleted on SO, too
@Ixrec I think most of them go, "you're right this is a bad question" more often than not
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@Rachel I was responding to enderland's comment about him being an outlier
 
enderland
enderland
I respond to a lot of duga comments and normally never get any argument/pushback
 
Ampt
Ampt
/venting
 
enderland
enderland
Migrate to /dev/null? :) — enderland 3 hours ago
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
3:52 PM
That comment would probably be better in the C++ Lounge, but I thought it was too funny not to post. :)
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
refreshes room to get the giant red f-word off my screen
clearly I need to stop using that bookmarklet at work
 
enderland
enderland
lol
 
Ampt
Ampt
@Ixrec Apologies. Just needed to get that off my chest.
on the other hand that is why I deleted it.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
nope, you did exactly the right thing
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
You could wait a few more seconds or wink wink, nudge nudge increase the room owner count.
Tries to find common ground with a blue sock
 
Ampt
Ampt
3:55 PM
@AaronHall I'm just venting about the crap day I'm having. It's really not as interesting as you think :) promise.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
iirc someone whose name I forget was secretly informed by important people that we should not add more room owners for some reason
 
enderland
enderland
oh right, +2 rep for accepting an answer. I only need to post 2000 more questions and accept answers here to get to 10k rep!
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
There's probably some user-script that hangs on to deleted stuff, I should just use that instead of complaining.
But until I do, I'll probably forget and complain.
(deleted)
:D
 
Rachel
Rachel
you're having too much fun here @AaronHall, stop it :)
 
enderland
enderland
the whiteboard, no fun allowed
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
4:06 PM
Passes the scotch Well, to put it back on work-stuff, I got my Tableau export to work. Took 7+ hours to export, 1+hours to publish.
 
Ampt
Ampt
Chugs the scotch
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
I don't know why the memory blows up like it does, though. But it doesn't crash. So...
 
Ampt
Ampt
if it compiles, it ships
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
if it compiles and the tests pass, it ships
 
Ampt
Ampt
ha. There's no budget for testing.
you wanna test you test on your own time.
although I will say I spent 33 hours this week getting rid of all the compiler warnings. Turns out the -w flag works wonders on our codebase!
 
enderland
enderland
4:23 PM
already?
it's only wed morning
 
Ampt
Ampt
nbd
I'm counting tomorrows time in there to run the compile job with the -w flag enabled
@Snowman I'm sorry, I was really bored and wanted to see what you would do.
 
user114359
4:46 PM
@Ampt if only it were your fault... you're just a sock puppet for the real culprit.
 
BarryTheHatchet
BarryTheHatchet
hi
HI
 
Aaron Hall
Aaron Hall
Hurrah for the -w flag.
(redacted)
I'm anticipating "Bubbles" for next month.
 
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