The Whiteboard - 2016-01-15 (page 1 of 5)

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12:03 AM

I'm sure you can search around and find somewhere, but this site isn't it. "Stack Overflow is for professional and enthusiast programmers, people who write code because they love it." Unless you are asking for advice on fixing a specific portion of the code in your own work, this site isn't going to be any help. — Claies 9 secs ago

12:38 AM

Programmers promoted for discussion: meta.stackexchange.com/a/273012

user55340

1:09 AM

The best practices often face just as a harsh response on Programmers.SE as it does on SO. Discussions are still not good questions for the Q&A model. Best practices are far too varied to be able to be answered in a reasonable way. A good question has a problem that can be solved - not a poll for vaporous suggestions from someone who doesn't see your code. — MichaelT 2 mins ago

user55340

@Deduplicator thank you for the heads up.

user55340

10

A: When will new Community Promotion Ad questions be appearing in Metas for 2016?

I'm the one in charge of starting up the new Community Promotion Ads. And they're actually slated to be up by the end of today! We already have Stack Overflow's spin on the situation up, as they're the easiest one. The rest? The main slow point is that naturally with the update in the width of t...

user55340

> As to updates on the guidelines? They're as follows. Some of these were pointed out in the late portion of 2015, but not all sites uniformly received the update.

Old: Size must be 220x250 -> Size must be 300x250 (or twice that, for retina)
Old: Image filesize cannot exceed 150KB -> Filesize cannot exceed 40KB.
Images where the background is white or partially white, must have a 1px border of not-white around them.

user55340

Side bit - green won over amber.

user55340

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1:36 AM

@MichaelT FWIW green is about 10x more readable to me right now

user55340

@Ampt I'm an amber preferrer... but hey, if green gets more clicks.

... what's it like to be so wrong?

^^^

amber for teh lose. Green all the way

user55340

@Ampt But amber. It was the color of the VT100s in the lab back in college.

VT100 needed moar matrix

1:39 AM

I want to shoot stuff but my computer is currently being used to design gas piping for a friggin walmart

I don't like this both ethically and personally

haha what do they need gas for? Let them go cold! Shoot zeds!

apparently it's in their "contract" and my suggestion to use garden hoses was "unprofesional"

user55340

Ok... 300 x 250 or 600 x 500.

for...?

@Ampt what I'm hearing is my old bosses voice in the back of my head saying "As a software engineer, all technological devices are tax deductible as work expenses so I buy a top of the line computer every year and a half"

user55340

1:42 AM

@Ampt New community adverts.

user55340

> Old: Size must be 220x250 -> Size must be 300x250 (or twice that, for retina)

@MichaelT The bigger the better

user55340

@Ampt I'm going to have to redo the SICP from scratch.

@JimmyHoffa wait.... I can tax deduct my computer if I work from home occasionally?

?!?!?!?!

?!?!?!?!??!?!!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

user55340

And yes, fortunately the two color image fits the size limits better.

1:43 AM

@Ampt who said you needed to work from home? and who said just a computer?

!!!!!!!!!!!!

user55340

They went from 150kb size max to 40kb size max.

seriously though can I?

I'm about to buy her one/upgrade mine

if I keep the receipts I can tax deduct this shit?

@MichaelT wait they downed the max size but upped the res??

what in the actual turd burglers

user55340

29 mins ago, by MichaelT

> As to updates on the guidelines? They're as follows. Some of these were pointed out in the late portion of 2015, but not all sites uniformly received the update.

Old: Size must be 220x250 -> Size must be 300x250 (or twice that, for retina)
Old: Image filesize cannot exceed 150KB -> Filesize cannot exceed 40KB.
Images where the background is white or partially white, must have a 1px border of not-white around them.

He deducted every tablet, phone, computer, monitor, accessory, etc etc. If you want to ply your trade as a software engineer, you need many components for proper research and training.

user55340

1:44 AM

Upped image size, downed max file size.

(Not taking the standard deduction is generally not worth the money for the vast majority of people to go itemizing like that though)

or at least, I presume you have to itemize to deduct "work expenses"

user55340

Fortunately, the source material is an SVG so its rather easy to move around.

oh yeah... if you itemize you can't just take the standard deduction

meh, nevermind

> To deduct workplace expenses, your total itemized deductions must exceed the standard deduction. You must also meet what’s called "the 2% floor." That is, the total of the expenses you deduct must be greater than 2% of your adjusted gross income, and you can deduct only the expenses over that amount.

turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/…

I may spend that this weekend...

whole new computer

1:49 AM

@Ampt to be honest, you should look at the new Pascal architecture coming out in Q2 of 2016 - I was looking just the other day, it's worth waiting for. They completely rearchitected the pipe between CPU-GPU and RAM with "NvLink" which is apparently vastly faster than current approaches. Makes the Motherboards ram just as accessible to the GPU as onboard ram, also makes the GPU far more available to the CPU. Plus they have this new "stacked" ram thing that's apparently far greater bandwidth

NVIDIA NVLink High-Speed Interconnect: Maximizes throughput for Superior Application Performance

5-12 times bandwidth of current PCI-E. It's partially more for compute power by making GPU available to CPU for fast numerical operations, but the fact that it's going to require a completely reworked northbridge to me means if you're in the market for a whole kit, wait until you can get a motherboard with NVLink

Hi there.

@JimmyHoffa That NVLink sounds really interesting.

Also, have you guys seen the new post on the licensing issue? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/272956/…

How is this going to affect you guys?

user55340

85, 205, 78 for the green color...

user55340

user image

user55340

2:04 AM

As an aside, need to make sure that people use tinypng.com

Needs closing: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/307441/…

user55340

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Has everyone voiced their displeasure about the new license terms yet?

user55340

3

A: How does the proposed MIT license change effect code that comes in part from another site

As described by Machavity, the php.net manual has its license. As of this writing, that appears to be a CC with attribution 3.0 license. CC to CC license typically isn't all that much of a problem. A more interesting situation would be one where someone is asking about a bit of code. Lets say....

user55340

It makes me wonder if I'm going to have to edit my answer...

user55340

2:08 AM

0

A: Why would I need `equals` if I have already `hashcode`?

For reasons of practicality, hashCode() returns a signed int. 232 possible values. One could trivially have this be a long instead of an int and it would only slightly have me change the remainder of this answer. The essence of all of this is the pigeonhole principle. If you have m items and t...

@JimmyHoffa fuck. of course theres something new coming up

user55340

Because I've got a few lines of ~~code~~ knowledge in there from a GPL bit that would be reasonable under fair use if this isn't code.

wait

The whole other realm is that not everything can be copyrighted and you can't license what you don't have a copyright on.

is pascal the GPU architecture?

user55340

2:09 AM

I still like that Long.valueOf(0).hashCode() == Long.valueOf(-1).hashCode().

Oh, no, I'm getting a new CPU/Mobo/Ram

keeping the same 2x 780ti

I know that to be a fact. I couldn't tell you how to tell if someone is copyrightable or not, though. That's for a lawyer.

So, what happens when someone posts a snippet of code from documentation?

user55340

@ThomasOwens Only lawyers are copyrightable.

user55340

@Hosch250 document... under the GDFL!

2:10 AM

@Hosch250 No one knows.

They do not own the copyright, so they cannot license it, so they cannot post it?

It's all kinds of screwed up. And apparently the OSI was invovled in this.

user55340

And then there's the whole 'CodeReview is going to die on the vine' problem.

Maybe that is why they wouldn't graduate us.

user55340

Everything you post to CR.SE would become MIT... even if you were philosophically opposed to it and a GPL advocate.

user55340

2:12 AM

@Hosch250 CodeReview is graduated... CodeGolf isn't.

user55340

user55340

See? Nice pretty graduated site.

user55340

user55340

Forever beta.

@MichaelT I know, but it took a year or something like that.

I suppose this will affect PPCG in the same way.

user55340

2:14 AM

@Hosch250 I think that was more a "trying to figure out graduation"

@JimmyHoffa WELL? WHAT SAY YE

user55340

From a conversation that I had with someone in the know a bit ago... PPCG will likely be forever beta.

I heard that over a year ago.

user55340

Though they are probably a bit less worried... I mean who cares if some line noise is MIT or not... it isn't something anyone is going to use.

user55340

However, it will hit some of the other non-code golf things they have.

user55340

2:16 AM

56

Q: "KNOT" or "NOT"?

Write a program that processes an ASCII art representation of a tangled string and decides whether or not it can be untangled into a simple loop. The tangle is represented using the characters - and | to represent horizontal and vertical segments, and + to represent corners. Places where the stri...

user55340

That one... which claims to be code golf... deep math is involved there.

user55340

Solving that gets into very interesting academic computation questions.

2:27 AM

@Ampt huh?

@JimmyHoffa you were talking about waiting til pascal - but that's a GPU thing, right?

I'm not upgrading the GPUs

just the CPU/RAM/Mobo

@Ampt yeah, new GPU coming out. But still: You're getting a new mobo, and the NVLink for the pascal requires an upgraded northbridge

and what do you mean "upgrade" - you should buy a whole new machine

@JimmyHoffa northbridge? what is this, 1995?

@Ampt wtf ever it is that's in motherboards. The motherboard will require the NVLink interconnect.

unless I'm so out of date in hardware architecture that I'm speaking nonsense, but they said it replaces PCI-Express, so...

intel CPUs interface directly with memory and PCI-E

2:29 AM

@Ampt this replaces PCI-E

and if it's just coming out on the cards, I doubt that mobo makers will adopt as quickly

go read about NVLink

eh... Nvidia will probably release mobo chipsets for it

it's still bleeding edge - not waiting up. GO ON WITHOUT ME

seriously though - stuff like this is not an overnight adoption

plus PCI-E 4.0 is rolling out now

and every gen (including this one) is twice as fast as the last

PLUS even the highest end cards don't use full bandwidth anyway

IF you're running those crazy tegra compute nodes, sure, this is an upgrade

PLUS meh. I don't need to upgrade right now so I'm happy to wait.

Could I get a sanity check on my edit to my answer on the licensing question? Especially the bullet points? Is asking for those 6 conditions truly unreasonable?

2:31 AM

but for even gaming graphics cards, x8 at PCI-E 3.0 is a ton of bandwidth

@ThomasOwens you're crazy. Case Closed.

**v1.x (2.5 GT/s):**
250 MB/s (×1)
4 GB/s (×16)
**v2.x (5 GT/s):**
500 MB/s (×1)
8 GB/s (×16)
**v3.x (8 GT/s):**
985 MB/s (×1)
15.75 GB/s (×16)
**v4.0 (16 GT/s):**
1969 MB/s (×1)
31.51 GB/s (×16)

@Ampt the other piece is Pascal has that crazy memory upgrade which apparently vastly improves GPU->Memory bandwidth

31.51 GigaBYTE/s

you really think the bottleneck then is the GPU itseelf?

For me? Absolutely

I have a 2500k

and 2x 780ti

oh as far as rendering goes?

hell yeah it is

Meh, perhaps. No knows. Well you enjoy imagining efficient gas piping for Wal-Mart while I go blow up Zeds.

2:34 AM

(Sorry, thought that said CPU)

@JimmyHoffa no imagining - only calculations. Apparently it's working if her exclamations of success are anything to judge by

It's all greek to me

I just ran it as admin to get it to run properly and now I'm Mr. Fixit

user55340

3:30 AM

... used paper plates on Amazon. o_O.

3:47 AM

@MichaelT haha

not even plastic? :/

3 hours later…

6:45 AM

I think this question belongs to programmers.stackexchange.com — Martin Schneider 6 secs ago

7 hours later…

1:39 PM

lol, the weak business analyst I work with sends me a long email with a problem in one of my current jobs late the day before I leave (after having literally months to validate the information)

easy. You have x amount of time left and his task requires ax time where a >> how much you care.

I would send that as an email reply.

My problem is I care about my work

EVEN AFTER IM GONE WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME

Caring about previous jobs after leaving has never ended well for me.

though let's be real I'm leaving at noon today regardless of whether I finish that task or not :P

At best you just hope things turn out well for them. At worst they keep calling you up for a "quick thing" and they expect you to consult for free.

1:45 PM

nah no one will call me, I don't think

@enderland exactly. And that doofus who emailed you with last minute work needs to understand why that was stupid. For his benefit and for the benefit of everyone still working with him. You should tell him that his request is impossible and unreasonable.

@MetaFight yeah. this BA is... less than good though (she never, ever, ever replies all which is so unbelievably annoying when I legit want to CC people for visibility)

another reason why email is broken/sucks.

it's broken because people can accidentally or maliciously break conversations by dropping recipients.

Happy Coffee Day

@enderland unbroken sense of loyalty. It'll get broken; it's like the tonsils: A vestigial organ of a fargone time whose current sole purpose is to inflame and cause problems until removed.

10/10 for cynicism :D

2:01 PM

haha just read this comment and had to +1 for both surprise ending and sincere self awareness

@MathematicalOrchid I tried to benchmark TVars vs modifyIORef once. I made some bank account thing where threads would each do transactions between two bank accounts. The IORef implementation would end up with inconsistencies obviously. My first attempt managed to bench a random number generator, and my second attempt benched a faster random generator. I got a speed difference (~ twice as fast) on my third attempt where my random generator really wasn't random at all but just taking pregenerated numbers from an array. At that point I realised I didn't know what I was doing so I gave up. — monocell Nov 15 '14 at 16:57

Tater tots or pizza bites?

@KitZ.Fox you're going to give me an acid attack just thinking about them. None of that nonsense, please. Why do hate body? :(

@KitZ.Fox option 3: neither?

sighs This is why I can't like any of you.

meh. Less grease, moar hot sauce.

2:04 PM

Tater tots then. They are baked and you can put hot sauce on them.

Then I have to decide on a hot sauce. sighs again

Fridays are hard.

I guess I don't even know what pizza bites are

Just found the meta posts about code licensing

What a shit show

@Ampt What do we want? Attribution!

I'm kind of surprised how many downvotes it has, to be honest

I believe it is now the most down voted Meta.SE question.

2:07 PM

@ThomasOwens meta.stackexchange.com/…

yup

user image

oh. oooooooh.

I remember when I used to love those. then... :P

Yes. I am eating like a teenager today.

They are better deep-fried.

But whatever. nom nom nom

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^^^ +1 +1

Hmm.

2:12 PM

reddit.com/r/programming/comments/40zlu1/…

order online

heh one of the options on my "reason for action" form I fill out is "retirement" - I wonder what the implications of me selecting that are

I like Cholula. It's my standby.

> How much of the code submitted to StackOverflow is owned by the submitter instead of the employer whose time they did it on? If they get more picky about licensing they should expect more scrutiny on whether they own what they claim they do.

@enderland You don't want to do that.

More paperwork.

Tax implications.

Yech. It's like joking about bombs in the airport.

2:13 PM

tax implications? nah

Damn the mobile web interface sucks. How do you do this @MichaelT

@Ampt I made precisely this point on CR when they first came out with the proposal. They really shouldn't be drawing attention to licensure of things here when you realize they're effectively (unknowingly) hosting untold reams of code with which they've no right to. It's no different than if youtube hosted all that illegal content but just happened to never get DMCA takedowns (yet)

@KitZ.Fox geez thanks a lot. Hi alphabet soup. We love you! Also we love america! Sooo much!

@Ampt I wonder the same, but then perhaps his version of mobile is an IMac

I'm just going to let the capital I stand on that one. It probably irritates the hell out of apple people. Pew pew pew, nerd sniping.

@Ampt I don't know if you wanted it to be quoted or not, but I edited it

Yes, that is correct. Do you know of any similar problems solved so far so I can take a look how it has been done? — ziGi 3 mins ago

@Ampt It's going to be much better soon.

user55340

2:28 PM

@Ampt slowly.

@JPVenson The thing to keep in mind is that questions are not only for your use, but they should also be useful to people who might have similar problems in the future. This might be more appropriate for programmers.stackexchange.com. — CodingGorilla 16 secs ago

...because programmers never have the same problem twice.

Nope

Holy crap my connection is slow. It's like I'm on dial-up today.

So I watched new Star Wars yesterday.

I give it a solid Meh.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@KitZ.Fox Quite right.

2:36 PM

Yup

More women/female aliens in general was good.

user41796

Is this where someone needs to shout IT WAS AWESOME!!!

I liked Kylo Ren a lot.

I was impressed with the nuance of his expression.

I should suspend you for that.

@Yannis who, glen? or Kit? :P

2:38 PM

Both.

user41796

I don't think it advanced the story line all that much, but I think it solidly returned the series back to the fans.

are we now a spoiler-free zone?

Keeping in mind that I am comparing him to Hayden Christiansen's portrayal of Anakin. But still. I like his face.

user41796

@Yannis Unless Kit and I gang up and suspend you first...

@KitZ.Fox a rock would have done better than that, though... ;)

2:39 PM

@enderland True. That's what I was getting at.

Too much. That would be my answer. But it's too short for this system — Ancalagon The Black 3 hours ago

I justupvoted that comment earlier, which is relevant here haha

I felt like most of the fan service was annoying and repetitive and should have been replaced with real character development. A summary version of the first three movies with new faces was kind of pointlessly weary. I wanted the story that they didn't tell instead of this one.

I wanted a story that wasn't already told..

but I had such low expectations that I still enjoyed it

I think it is interesting to draw parallels, but the interesting part is not the samenesses but the differences. They focused on everything that was alike.

And seriously. What percentage of the dialogue was from the original three movies?

How many props did they dig out of the closet and arrange artfully on set?

How many times did we really need to wink and nudge each other?

user41796

@KitZ.Fox A lot

2:43 PM

We're watching the movie. We're already in-group.

user41796

that production crew was given unprecedented access to lucas ranch or wherever

The other thing that bothered me was that we weren't told the things that everyone already knows, but that are mysterious and opaque to the viewer, but the things that should have been surprising twists because not everyone knows it were revealed through casually mentioning them.

wtf kind of storytelling is that?

Still better than Lucas though.

@KitZ.Fox I don't mind the dialog, but I disliked the recyling of almost all the major plot events

The story was more intimate and personal than epic, which is a distinct shift in mood.

user41796

@KitZ.Fox That was the bar that had to be cleared, that's all

2:46 PM

@enderland Really? I dislike that I could predict the dialog in a scene I had never watched.

user41796

Unless it's a ~~trap~~ setup for some major twists in 8 and 9

user41796

Abrams has already stated he regrets not agreeing to produce 8

It would have been better if they had used leading dialog and then concluded differently as a contrast.

Lightness Races in Orbit

@KitZ.Fox and bad guys that don't chew the scenery to the degree that it's actually cringeworthy would be nice (talking about the generic ~~Empire~~ First Order bad guys)

@KitZ.Fox that might be because you could see everything happening because the plot was the same as the other trilogy

Lightness Races in Orbit

2:48 PM

the acting was generally pretty awful

@enderland Woohoo. Nice shot, kid. I said it before they did.

But still. I like the shift in mood. I like the more personal feel to it. It's darker and more moody. It has a lot of potential.

@enderland I did, thanks

@JimmyHoffa people might start noticing quickly

what was the problem they were solving, anyway?

our lawyers were bored so we're dicking around with licensing?

@Ampt har har har, good one

@Ampt CC BY-SA is truly problematic for code. I can't use SO code at work.

@ThomasOwens huh, shit, you're right

you have to make your code CC if you do

2:51 PM

CC even says "don't use this for code".

But let's back up. Probably 95% of the code on SO isn't copyrightable.

ugh this is dumb. Can we just agree that I own my code, you own yours, and SO owns jack shit?

And if it can't be copyrighted, you can't license it.

lets go back to the wild west days

HAHAHAH I wanted to print my historical performance reviews, but the print dialog is broken. lol

However, there's some small percentage of code on SO that can be copyrighted and therefore needs to be licensed in order to make it useful. Along with almost all the code on Code Review and Programming Puzzles and Code Golf.

2:52 PM

where code was code, men were men, and lawyers hadn't followed the trail of money back to the source yet

@enderland PrtScn

@Ampt yeah but that's... a pain in the ass given how horrible this system is

@ThomasOwens The purpose of code on Stack Exchange sites is to show how something is done. That is how it is useful. Who would ever use it by copying it?

@enderland you using chrome?

@Ampt there are like 5 tabs in this dumb thing so I have to save each individually, I guess

and they have text boxes that expand. at least I only need to print 1

@Brandin Because it provides the answer I need. But on Code Review, people post complete classes. Sometimes multiple complete classes. In a single answer.

2:55 PM

@ThomasOwens there are a lot of stack overflow questions that have comprehensive "you can copy this and use it" code too

Just yesterday I borrowed an entire program, basically, though it was for a throwaway purpose

@enderland And I bet you didn't comply with CC BY-SA.

@ThomasOwens probably not, but since I didn't even save the code I'm not sure what I could do to comply :P

@ThomasOwens We don't need no stinkin laws

Please don't copy code from Stackoverflow, especially if someone gives you a license to do so.

You read it and learn what is done. Then write your own code.

(based off of that code, which again is copying that code)

2:56 PM

No. You just write your own code.

@Brandin part of the problem is when the code is basically a 1-liner, that makes licensing really weird

The other day, I had a problem with JAXB2. One of the JAXB2 developers was like "yeah, sorry, there was a bug between some of the JAXB2 implementations and holdovers from JAXB1. Here's a rewrite of a class that does what you want from JAXB1 in JAXB2 terms: {full and complete class}".

it could be argued that the code is a derivative if you looked at the SO answer first and wrote down a similair method.

I couldn't use that class...

@Ampt It could be argued. However, if you maintain that you wrote your own code, then it is up to someone else to prove that you copied it. Which, you didn't, because you wrote your own code.

2:58 PM

and let's be real for most trivial examples no one is ever going to try to cross check

but you did so using knowledge you gained from the previous implementation, no?

it wasn't spontaneously imprinted in your head

I actually found the class by the author elsewhere (his personal site) where it was available under a more favorable license.

@enderland hahaha

I have made tons of "derivative works" based on K&R's Hello World program and yet I maintain that every single one of them is my own code. 99% of the so-called "derivative" works based on solutions in SO are of that nature. Just write your own code and there are no problems.

MIT, I think.

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Jan '1615

The Whiteboard

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