:chat!

Doorknob

01:32

room topic changed to :chat!: General discussion for vi.stackexchange.com (no tags)

Went ahead and went with the sub-suggestion here:

I want to chat no matter what so I want to :chat! — yo' Feb 3 at 20:30

Carpetsmoker

09:54

@Doorknob But what if I don't want to :chat no matter what?!

And I just casually want to :chat without the risk of disrupting too much?

:-)

Vi Meta

12:45

0

Q: Are gVim and MacVim interface questions on topic?

Are gVim and MacVim questions related to interface (such as menu, tabs, settings) on topic? Or just plain vim commands?

Gonçalo Ribeiro

15:55

Haha, I see you already changed the room name. I'm divided about :chat or :chat! . Maybe :chat is more relaxed

On a different note: does anybody know where the last normal mode command is stored? Is there a register with it? It must be stored somewhere because we can use the dot command... I'm asking this because of the following question. Maybe I could start a new one with this, not sure.
http://vi.stackexchange.com/questions/742/showing-command-history-with-showcmd

Carpetsmoker

16:17

@GonçaloRibeiro re: normal command history, it's not stored (not even the most recent one); that's the problem with that question

So :-(

Re: Chat name ... bikeshed.org

user4704

16:54

I think there are bigger problem to worry about than chat names :P

user4704

I haven't looked at the relevant place in the source code in a while but I am fairly certain . works on an in-memory record only.

user4704

Maybe it's written out if you save a session file?

Vi Meta

18:39

0

Q: How can I get a daily or weekly digest of questions on my email?

This may be a silly question, but I've really tried to find a way to get a digest of the Vi and Vim SE questions sent to my email. I'm interested in following the questions and discussions, but I tend to forget to check the site regularly. If I could get a list of new or updated questions or simi...

feature-request email digest

user4704

19:01

Ugh, I really wish you could permanently kill the "Press Enter..." prompt in some scenarios.

Caleb

@JoshPetrie Agreed. That is one of vi's poorest interface paradigms.

What I've seen so far it looks like NeoVim will probably do away with that particular prompt system entirely.

Carpetsmoker

19:47

@JoshPetrie You can use set nomore ... Not sure which prompts you're talking about though

@Caleb I would expect little else from the people who removed clipboard support ... :-/

I wonder if NEOVim will still have any features left

Carpetsmoker

20:16

@JoshPetrie Still not seeing the Enter prompt

0

Q: How can I suppress the "press enter" prompt when opening files in diff mode?

When using gVim (on Windows; see below) to diff two files which both have very long paths relative to the current working directory, the dreaded "press enter" prompt appears during load, before rendering any of the useful diff information. This is extremely annoying. How can I prevent this pro...

vimdiff

user4704

Hm.

Carpetsmoker

I'm using Linux, could it be a Windows-only issue?

user4704

Maybe.

user4704

It does actually look like I might be wrong about the message, it might actually be printing an explicit newline between the two files.

Carpetsmoker

gvim -d /home/martin/C:/that/folder_creates_a_very_long/path_which_reproduces_the_proble‌m/for_people_on_stackexchange/to_look_at/a.txt /home/martin/C:/that/folder_creates_a_very_long/path_which_reproduces_the_proble‌m/for_people_on_stackexchange/to_look_at/a.txt

Works as expected

user4704

20:17

"nomore" doesn't help; setting cmdheight to 2 also solves the problem but I really, really don't want to do that.

Carpetsmoker

Do you only get it with gvim -d? Or also when opening "normal" files?

I mean, just opening a file without diff mode

user4704

It will happen with normal files, too.

user4704

(the path has to be longer than whatever "columns" is set to, basically)

Carpetsmoker

aha

When using gvim -u NONE I do get the message

So something in my vimrc prevents it

But what

user4704

What's "columns" for you?

Carpetsmoker

20:20

columns=105

user4704

Hm.

user4704

105 isn't long enough to stop it for me.

user4704

Maybe I'll just hack "press enter" out of the code.

Carpetsmoker

aha, it seems to be one of the vimfiles from Arch Linux

user4704

It is, in this case, the world's most useless message. I'm not yet senile enough to forget which files I just opened.

user4704

20:25

Interesting.

Carpetsmoker

Okay, this is strange

"set nocompatible " Use Vim defaults instead of 100% vi compatibility

If I comment that out (like not) I get an ENTER prompt, if I leave it in, I don't

Could it be that simple?

user4704

Doesn't seem to change it for me.

user4704

ah, wait, that gets reset by a few thigns

Carpetsmoker

Using:

user4704

that does it

Carpetsmoker

20:29

Okay :-)

user4704

set nocompatible has to be in the gvimrc too i guess

Carpetsmoker

ehm

I don't have a gvimrc

user4704

I'm confused though, since I though compatible is set to off when a gvimrc is found

Carpetsmoker

   When a vimrc or gvimrc file is found while Vim is starting up,
    this option is switched off

user4704

Yeah. But if, in my gvimrc, I switch back and forth between "set nocompatible" and removing that line entirely, it changes the behavior of the enter prompt

user4704

20:33

I am quite confused now.

user4704

Must have to do with the way toggling it toggles a few other related options.

Carpetsmoker

:set shortmess=at also seems to do the tric

k

Vim default "filnxtToO", Vi default: ""

user4704

Yeah.

user4704

O specificlaly

user4704

The O option seems to be the key

user4704

20:40

Plus the t and T options, because even with O I can get it to happen for slightly longer paths.

user4704

Thanks. That thing has been driving me crazy.

Carpetsmoker

I can imagine!

muru

21:23

Has anybody on a Debian-based system got Vim to have both python and python3 working in the same session?

1

Q: What's the easiest way to get vim with python 3 support?

I have ubuntu 14.04 installed and vim in its repos is compiled without python 3 support. Because of that python-mode plugin can't work with python 3 code. What's the easiest way to get vim with python 3 support?

vim python3

Carpetsmoker

Even Arch comes with Vim with only Python 2 support

muru

Arch has vim-python3, but again mutually exclusive

I got it to build, but only one at a time at runtime

Carpetsmoker

Ah, there's a vim-python3 package, didn't know that

muru

I didn't until today either. :D

Carpetsmoker

You can try to tar xf that, and see if it runs?

On your Debian system

muru

21:28

Oh, I got vim to build with python/dyn and python3/dyn on Ubuntu.

But at runtime, you can use only one for the entire session.

Once you call :py, game over for :py3 until you quit vim.

Carpetsmoker

Ah, wait, the problem is using both Python 3 and 2 at the same time

muru

Yep.

Carpetsmoker

Did you see :help python-2-and-3?

I think that seems to do what you want

muru

Yes (or, well, what Bran had to say), which amounts to the same thing.

I thought of asking a question here, but it seems so .. Linux-specific that I'm not usre if it'd be ontopic.

I mean, the problem is not even with Vim, but with the Python libraries.

Carpetsmoker

hm

It sounds like it would be easier to port your Python 2 script to Python 3?

muru

21:35

(If I had one)

Sorry if it feels like I'm wasting time, but I'm just trying to find if this is possible.

Carpetsmoker

It's your time to waste :-)

muru

:D

How do I get some attention from the other vi.se users on this?

Someone might have a trick up their sleeve.

Carpetsmoker

Posting a question is the standard way to do that :-)

I don't see anything wrong with the question, as such btw

For example, the answer on this turned out to be almost completly on terminal emulators, not so much Vim:
http://vi.stackexchange.com/questions/588/can-i-use-a-non-monospaced-font-in-either-vim-or-gvim

No one complained...

muru

Thanks! I think I'll post. If nothing else, it will set a signpost that this is off-topic. :D

Wish @Gilles were here. He's got enough experience in enough SE sites that he'd have a fair guess what would happen. :)

Gilles

@muru what's up?

Carpetsmoker

21:45

I don't think it's off-topic, it's about Vim interacting with the OS

@Gilles I saw you're also quite active on emacs.SE btw ... Do you use both editors? Most people just choose one and stick with that ...

Gilles

252

A: What are the pros and cons of Vim and Emacs?

I use both, although if I had to choose one, I know which one I would pick. Still, I'll try to make an objective comparison on a few issues. Available everywhere? If you're a professional system administrator who works with Unix systems, or a power user on embedded devices (routers, smartphones...

muru

In brief: Does: "You can compile Vim to have support for Python2 and Python3 on Linux, but only one can be used within a session. How can both be made available during a session?" seem on-topic.

Gilles

I use emacs for the big stuff (tex, programming) and vi when I need to edit a small script or config file quickly

@muru I don't see why it wouldn't be

Carpetsmoker

I've never used Emacs until last week ... Some features seem really nice and are downright impossible in Vim (like multiple fonts)

Gilles

@Carpetsmoker interaction with subprocesses is the big one

Carpetsmoker

21:47

But it's also 100M vs. 4M ... And is M-x docotor really required by default?

Gilles

or does vim finally have that?

muru

@Gilles Well, as devil's advocate: it's a problem with the python libraries, not vim.

Carpetsmoker

AFAIK you're limited to system()

Gilles

@muru it's a problem that's unique to vim

muru

That.. is true AFAIK. Heading to Ask Question.

Carpetsmoker

21:49

I made a script yesterday where I want to python -c 'pycode' ... You can only use system(), which is the shell, so you need to escape your string for the shell & python, it's poop

Carpetsmoker

22:00

@muru Yes

muru

@Carpetsmoker Thank you! Posted just now.

Carpetsmoker

BTW, doesn't a private beta last 7 days, usually?

muru

meta.stackexchange.com/a/239949/270345 says "a couple weeks"

Gilles

@Carpetsmoker It's normally 7 days. It can be longer if there's something wrong but correctible with the site: not enough posts, general low quality, no clear delineation of the topic, lack of differentiation with other sites

the last point is surely what's holding vi.se

it held emacs.se in beta for a second week

Carpetsmoker

I saw the post about emacs, but that was announced

Gilles

22:09

and vi.se has it worse, because the quality of vi answers on SO is better than for emacs

Carpetsmoker

We haven't heard anything, so I wondered...

Gilles

many of the questions on SO are technically off-topic, but SO's scope in practice is programming questions, questions about text editors and questions about version control tools

Are there developers of implementations of vi or of vim plugins on the site?

Emacs had a few from day 1, I'm sure it helped

Carpetsmoker

Yes, I know about the overlap, and I think that's a good point against a vi.SE site

I developed a plugin, but that's something anybody experienced with VIm did at one point or another

I don't know about any Vim devs

muru

Wonder how we can get Tim Pope here.

Carpetsmoker

Well, by letting him know that this site exists?

Note that a good developer does NOT necessarily make a good SE expert

muru

22:17

Well, yes, but what's the incentive?

And that too.

Carpetsmoker

I can spare a few free beers

Did anyone actually post a link to this to the vim-dev or whatever maillist?

muru

I, uh, tweeted him (hides face in embarrassment). Let's see if he responds.

Carpetsmoker

:-)

muru

23:04

Pope says nope. :(

Carpetsmoker

23:33

[citation needed]

@tpope What do you think of a Vim Stack Exchange site? It's in private beta, atm, but it could sure a few vim experts http://vi.stackexchange.com/

Tweeted by murukeshmm on February 13, 2015 at 10:23 PM

Vi Meta

0

Q: Are vipe questions on topic?

Vipe is a Vim command pipe editor which allows you to run a text editor in the middle of a unix pipeline and edit the data that is being piped between programs. It's something considered to be on topic? It's a stand-alone program, allows you to run a text editor in the middle of a unix pipeline...

discussion scope

user4704

@Carpetsmoker Doesn't really surprise me.

user4704

The gamedev site has a similar issue.

Carpetsmoker

I haven't really looked at the game dev site ... But that seems to be very much on-topic for SO?

At a glance, anyway

user4704

23:51

Hm? No, I mean with people like Tim Pope.

user4704

People who have a ton of knowledge about a particular domain but who would get nothing out of contributing to the site because it's a huge time sink.

user4704

(the analogue for the gamedev is professional game developers; there are very, very few who actively participate there because the general level of discourse is generally too far beneath their needs)

Carpetsmoker

Right

Gilles

@JoshPetrie that's a problem for the site not being good enough then

Carpetsmoker

For me, vi.SE is interesting because I learn quite a bit from it, not just by asking questions, but by answering them as well

user4704

23:55

@Gilles Yup.

Gilles

Emacs has a several developers of Emacs and well-known packages

user4704

(there's also the fact that most professional game developers can't/don't feel comfortable asking questions about their work, for good reason)

Carpetsmoker

@JoshPetrie Hm, why not?

user4704

@Carpetsmoker They like to keep their jobs, mainly.

Gilles

@JoshPetrie yes, I imagine they have the same problem I had on the failed embedded.SE (my job is to write embedded software): most questions I have about my job are confidential, I can't let people know that I'm working on this feature or that hardware

user4704

23:57

Yup.

Gilles

that's not a problem for developers of open-source software like vim or emacs

Carpetsmoker

Wel, I'm a developer (as a profession), I don't see me losing my job if I ask or answer a quetsion on SO, how is game dev different?

(I have no experience with game dev other than creating a browser version of the 1980's robots game)

user4704

@Carpetsmoker I can't ask questions about the rendering API used by the Xbox, because that would violate my non-disclosure agreements.

Gilles

@Carpetsmoker I've asked a few job-related questions on SE, but not on the focus of my job

user4704

I can't really ask questions that might tip the hand about features or whatever that the game I'm working on may have, because that would violate my non-disclosure agreements.

Carpetsmoker

23:59

@Gilles What do you mean with, "the focus of my job"?

@JoshPetrie Ah, right ... NDA ...

user4704

(especially if, like me, one uses one's real name)

Gilles

e.g. I can ask a question about build scripts, because who cares what build tools we use. But I can't ask a question about some hardware that isn't for sale yet, for which I'm writing the firmware.

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