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4:44 PM
Welcome to chat for: Vi and Vim
This is a general discussion room, but please feel free to create more subject-specific rooms (a single room with every possible discussion isn't very helpful)
For playing with chat features:

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Where you can play with chat features (except flagging) and ch...
and remember; please read the FAQ ;p)
 
4:56 PM
Wooo! We're in private beta! :-)
 
Yipee!
 
Would I get lynched if I wrote a 'How do I exit Vi(m)' question?
>:D
 
I asked a question I think you can answer @Undo >:P
 
5:11 PM
@Seth the one I already did or a different one?
(sorry swimming in a sea of tabs here)
 
Wait, it's that easy? o_O
facepalm
 
:D
 
woo!
 
Would it be okay if I added meta posts to the chat feeds?
 
That sounds like a good idea.
 
5:14 PM
Undo has made a change to the feeds posted into this room
 
5
Q: Should we have separate tags [vi] and [vim]?

UndoVim is almost a proper subset of vi, but they're still two different editors, with two different names. Should we create vi and vim?

3
Q: Is it ok to ask beginner level question?

C RagsI am new to using vim. So I think my questions will be in the beginners level only. Should I wait till public beta to ask my questions? Will asking beginner level question impede the site from being launched?

2
Q: Should questions and answers assume the use of Vim?

200_successI believe that, these days, most users are using something very close to Bram Moolenaar's Vim, rather than an editor derived from Bill Joy's vi. Furthermore, most of the operations can be done more efficiently in Vim. Should we all just assume that Vim is being used, unless otherwise mentioned?...

 
1
Q: Should we use <kbd> in Markdown to indicate normal mode / insert mode keystrokes?

200_successTo indicate in questions and answers that keystrokes are being typed in normal mode or insert mode, should <kbd> be the convention? Or should we use backticks?

0
Q: What is considered to be vi?

Carpetsmoker/bin/vi, as written by Bill Joy in the '70's is vi. And /usr/bin/vim, as written by Bram in the '90's, is vim. But we also have nvi (mostly the same), NEO Vim (not even sure what this is), elvis (also a clone with more featues), vile (Emacs like vi, I kid you not), and perhaps a few more. To bo...

0
Q: What topics can I ask about here?

200_successOur [help/on-topic] page just contains some generic text. This is probably the most important page in defining the site. Let's collaboratively develop a rough draft as a wiki.

 
5:39 PM
2
Q: Are questions about installation of vi(m) and related software on-topic?

Paul GesslerAre installation and associated troubleshooting questions on-topic for this site, or do we want to focus on questions/answers that improve users' actual usage of vi(m) and related software?

 
repcap :(
 
6:03 PM
0
Q: Is it possible (and does it make sense) to migrate vi/vim-related questions from other SO sites?

Andrew FerrierThere are lots of high-quality vi and vim questions on other Stack Exchange sites; for example, see all the questions tagged vim on SuperUser. Is it possible (and does it make sense) to migrate some of all of these to Vi and Vim?

 
6:17 PM
1
Q: How much should we indulge questions about plugins?

Andrew FerrierLots of very useful vim functionality is available these days through plugins, supported by plugin managers such as Pathogen. I would guess that most experienced vim users use plugins - I certainly do. To what degree are questions about plugins on-topic? Will we indulge a specific question about...

 
6:32 PM
0
Q: Is vimscript a reasonable tag?

Andrew FerrierI just opened a question about vimscript. Irrespective of the merits of that particular question, does it make sense to use the vimscript tag? Arguably many/most questions about vim will end up with a small snippet of vimscript, even if it is only a one-liner to be pasted into a ~/.vimrc. When sh...

0
Q: Tag [programming] and related

yo'I think we have some tag confusion that should be resolved as soon as possible. (Maybe I'm just too cautious, but we all know how mass tag edits are bad.) It's programming. From this tag name, it's completely unclear whether it means: Using vi for programming whatever you program. Programming ...

 
Argh! Why did Vim have to launch at the worst possible time?
 
user4704
heh
 
user4704
I'm shocked it launched at all, tbh.
 
1
Q: To what extent should programming-related questions be on-topic?

DoorknobThis might be a big issue that we have to resolve before getting out of private/public beta: How programming-related can questions on Vim.SE be? For example, questions about using Vim as a programming tool are probably on-topic. How about programming in Vimscript? What about questions that requi...

2
Q: Let's think of a creative name for our chatroom

DoorknobThe chatroom name is so bland. "Vim." Look at all the creative names others have thought up: "Root Access" for Super User "The DMZ" for Security "The Renderfarm" for Blender "The Litter Box" for Pets "The Hangar" for Aviation "You Are Here" for Travel "The Water Cooler" for The Workplace "The W...

 
Has anyone sent a private beta invite to Bram Moolenaar?
 
6:48 PM
any suggestions for a "newbie" tag? If even necessary?
or perhaps?
 
@JohnB No, because those would be meta-tags: blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/08/the-death-of-meta-tags
 
that's what I thought someone would say
 
user4704
Yeah.
 
user4704
Neither of those seem like great ideas for tags to me.
 
me neither, hence why I asked :)
 
6:52 PM
@JohnB is generally a meta tag
Also, hey! :D
 
user4704
The SE software really sucks at mass-tag-delete, so the fewer bad tags we introduce early the better :D
 
I'm kinda struggling to come up with good tags for my question: i.imgur.com/wOTmOVq.png
any suggestions? The other beginner q has , but that's kinda meh
I associate "help" with :h
 
user4704
I thought I nuked help :\
 
it snuck back in
 
@JohnB I'm not sure it's a solid question.
 
7:00 PM
I think they take 24 hours to delete? Or the deletion script is run at a specific time
 
is for the built-in help system. Let's keep it that way.
 
user4704
That seems reasonable, although potentially easily screwed up.
 
user4704
But I guess I either just forgot to click "submit" on that edit or it got rejected.
 
no colons allowed in tags unfortunately
 
1
Q: Do we want questions for tutorials?

johannesThere is a question "What is an effective way to learn vimscript?" on there the following comment received a few upvotes and I think we should clear this on meta: IMHO this question is off-topic because it is too broad, in addition, it's basically asking for "what's the best VimScript tutoria...

 
user4704
7:01 PM
dotz-help
 
user4704
:D
 
@JoshPetrie Did you try to propose the deletion of the tag again?
 
user4704
Probably (accidentally), as I forgot about the whole "peer reviewed edit" thing.
 
user4704
and figured I just forgot to actually submit the edit, and hadn't considered that "help" could refer to the built-in help system
 
Should we rename the tag to be more explicit? Maybe ?
 
user4704
7:06 PM
I think that would create fewer instances of people making the same mistake I did, yeah.
 
Don't want future newbie users abusing the tag to mean HALP ME!
 
7:19 PM
@200_success yes, that sounds like a good idea.
 
Already done.
 
Alright, so I didn't think my question was primarily opinion based at all
too broad maybe?
 
I voted Too Broad.
 
user4704
I flipped a coin.
 
It was my attempt to come up with a non programming question. Any suggestions to improve it? Or just forget it?
 
user4704
7:27 PM
Maybe ask about a specific problem you had as a beginner? That's where my "how do I restore cursor position" came from, and, I suspect, most of the questions that are being asked right now.
 
Something that guides the user towards either Undo or :q!
 
user4704
Yeah, something like "I don't know how I did but I hit some keys and now my files is totally fubared and how do I recover from this?"
 
user4704
but less wordy
 
:q!
or undo
or :earlier
 
ok, I like that idea. And I'm going to shamelessly leave that one up and post a new question instead since it'll be a completely different question
sure is nice having only 3 pages of questions to be able to see if there's a dupe :)
 
7:30 PM
Just delete it and post a new question or two.
 
I don't mind leaving it up for now as an example of a bad question
 
It's got a negative score and is closed. I think the site will delete it for you soon enough...
 
mmmmnot with an upvoted answer I think. I'll flag it for deletion when (if) we move to public beta
 
or ? I don't think we need both.
 
True, the upvoted answer might save it
@200_success I'd keep cursor-movement. There are other types of movement (e.g., window), it'd be confusing.
 
user4704
7:37 PM
I like cursor-movement better.
 
How would you summarize the tag, if we keep one?
 
I wouldn't keep it
 
hey all
 
hey hey
 
7:47 PM
Thoughts?
1
Q: Should we have single character tags for specific commands?

durron597Do we want to have tags like x Or possibly group them together, like hkjl, or an aaiioo? (aside: apparently tags are not case sensitive) They could be synonymed to things like delete, movement, or insert-mode respectively. They could also be prefixed with like command-x instead of x.

 
2
Q: Should we have single character tags for specific commands?

durron597Do we want to have tags like x Or possibly group them together, like hkjl, or an aaiioo? (aside: apparently tags are not case sensitive) They could be synonymed to things like delete, movement, or insert-mode respectively. They could also be prefixed with like command-x instead of x.

0
Q: What do we do with questions that are already answered somewhere else on SE?

JasperThe title kind of says it all. I'm asking, because this Performing certain operations without clearing the clipboard question seems to be sufficiently answered http://stackoverflow.com/questions/54255/in-vim-is-there-a-way-to-delete-without-putting-text-in-the-register here. Close Downvote Cop...

 
Can we get a synonym ?
Repcapped!
 
@200_success Ditto. Just got the badge.
Hmmm, for some reason I have one more rep on the main site than meta. I thought that wasn't supposed to be possible.
(As in, I thought rep was supposed to be the same on both.)
 
@derobert Sometimes it takes awhile to update
 
I think by giving me mortarboard the site is trying to tell me its past lunch time, and I should go eat.
 
8:16 PM
bah I'm out of votes :(
 
8:47 PM
:) Thanks for the Review @200_success
 
9:00 PM
0
Q: Would debugging help with custom syntax highlighting .vim files be on topic?

durron597I wrote a custom syntax highlighting .vim file that doesn't work. Would posting it and explaining what it's supposed to do be on topic? What if I was able to write an MCVE? In either case, would the question be more on topic here, or on SO?

 
@200_success you just can't get enough of this :)
you'll probably end up missing out on more rep than you actually earned today ;)
 
yo
 
Whee I'm going to get the first duplicate! I rule!
 
lol
I see a number of duplicate answers already.
That bothers me more than duplicate questions, 'cause it's messier to clean up.
 
0
Q: Should questions about how to use vi mode in bash be on-topic?

200_successShould questions about how to use vi mode in bash (or readline in general) be on-topic?

 
 
1 hour later…
10:24 PM
0
Q: Should there be a separate tag for each plugin?

200_successShould we have a separate tag for each plugin, instead of a generic plugin tag to cover them all? If so, what should be the naming convention for such tags?

0
Q: Vote Early, Vote Often!

mixedmathI would like to echo a post that Scott Morrison made on Meta.Tex.SE: I'm a moderator from MathOverflow, and this "question" is actually unsolicited advice, based on our experience from the initial launch of MathOverflow. We should encourage everyone to vote positively as often as po...

 
10:41 PM
0
Q: What tag synonyms should be created?

200_successSince nobody has the required reputation to suggest tag synonyms yet, please post your tag synonym suggestions below. One suggestion per answer, please. This post will be deleted at the end of private beta. (Hopefully, we can start using the regular tag synonym suggestion mechanism by then.)

 
crickets
 
@Doorknob :(
 
@Doorknob :q!
/me has taken care of the crickets
 
@Doorknob I like the gifs, by the way
 
@derobert I'm tempted to delete the room. You did force quit, after all :P
4
@mixedmath Thanks. The program I used to make them is open-source: github.com/KeyboardFire/mkcast
<shameless-self-promotion>It's also really easy to use on GNOME: Alt+F2 newcast Enter, do some stuff, :q!.</shameless-self-promotion>
 
10:55 PM
@Doorknob yes, I think it's a great idea
 
@Doorknob Nah, that was a reply to the crickets. It was entered on the crickets' console.
 
The GIFs look nice, problem is you can't pause them go forward/back a frame ...
 
@Carpetsmoker you'd prefer webms?
 
You mean WebM?
I don't think that allows you to skip to the next frame? Or show a frame for 5 seconds?
It's a video, so you can use the seekbar, but that's awkward...
 
@Carpetsmoker Do you have a portable video-like format that allows easy frame by frame skipping in mind?
The way mkcast works is extremely simple and amenable to having any sort of recording format you want
 
11:09 PM
No, it's the web, it all sucks.
 
For the record, you can get webm in mkcast with newcast -o out.webm.
 
It's a nice suplement, but I would usually prefer a (text) description as an answer
1
A: How to create screencasts?

Carpetsmoker Should we encourage their use They look cool, and definitely add value, as such. But, I also find them somewhat hard to follow, the screen jumps around a lot, and I can't manually freeze it, or go back a frame. At the same time, I have to pay attention to the keys that are being typed and wh...

(coincidentally this just came up)
 
I think you're right. A complete self-sufficient text-based answer, with gif supplement
 
Yeah, basically, that are the guideline for images in answers already... More so for these screencasts due to their moving nature.
 
Yeah, it'd be nice if they didn't play until you clicked them.
 
11:14 PM
0
Q: What tags should be avoided, and why?

200_successTo prevent the tagging system from becoming a mess, let's assemble a list of tags that are a bad idea, and what the suggested good alternatives are. One topic per answer, please.

2
Q: How to create screencasts?

200_successHow does one go about creating screencasts, like this one? Should we encourage their use? If so, what minimum standards should there be for the image alt text and accompanying explanation?

 
Well, off to bed ... laters all
 
user4704
Bye.
 
1
Q: How to create screencasts?

200_successHow does one go about creating screencasts, like this one? Also see the related question: Should the use of screencasts be encouraged?

 
11:52 PM
3
Q: Do we really need the [vim] tag?

DoorknobTheoretically, vim is supposed to be used to specify that the question is specific to the Vim, that is, Vi IMproved by Bram Moolenaar. However, it appears that this is rarely the case in practice, and I don't think it will be the case in the future either. Almost all questions tagged vim are no...

 

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