Game Development

OMGtechy

22:00

dammit

well, imagine it was correct xD

would you like it then?

Icy Defiance

I really like that concept, but imagine a situation where someone who understands the difference writes some code and some other noob tries to make a change 2 years later. Off by one errors are painful to debug.

but ignoring the noobs, it's a nice feature that I personally would love to have

MLM

Intervals would be pretty nice. (you are proposing are intervals)

OMGtechy

Intervals?

ohhh

I call them ranges xD

hmm, what if I allowd you to set the step...

Icy Defiance

I think python calls them ranges, so I say OMGtechy is more right here :P

Lokkij

@OMGtechy (0, 5) looks like a tuple or maybe a function. You could do something like (0 .. 5)

MLM

22:03

I like range better but I see "interval" used more in the Math articles I see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics)

Icy Defiance

ooh I do like lokkij's idea

OMGtechy

@Lokkij have you seen swift? :P

Swift does that

Lokkij

I was actually taking inspiration from F# again :P

OMGtechy

ahah

F# is a wonderful thing

Icy Defiance

I really need to learn F#. I've been meaning to for some time now and never get around to it.

OMGtechy

22:04

@Lokkij well tuples won't look like that, but people seem to like the ... so thanks :P

Lokkij

:)

OMGtechy

Hmm, it'd be nice if you could set the step

like x ^ 2 starting at 1

ooo, if I could express the Fibonacci sequence through that it'd be uber

Lokkij

F# does: [0 .. 2 .. 10] gives 0 through 10 with a step of 2.

OMGtechy

F# strikes again

Almo

Fuck Sharp

hahahah

MLM

22:06

@OMGtechy I would just have list comprehensions like python has for setting the step. [x*2 for x in [0 .. 5]]

Almo

I should probably look at F# as well

and D

Pip

@OMGtechy opposite

OMGtechy

fuck D

Lokkij

@MLM I though python would be range(0, 5, 2)

OMGtechy

@MLM it seems more complex than it needs to be

I'm used to them though :D

Lokkij

22:07

I like list comprehensions, but not necessarily for that purpose.

Pip

interval notation is great

OMGtechy

they might be the clearest way of expressing it though

[0 ... 5]^2

Lokkij

Yuck.

OMGtechy

it's an idea

@MLM 's suggestion might be the lesser of many evils

Lokkij

I think [min .. step .. max] is pretty decent.

MLM

22:09

@OMGtechy The only downside is that is not as clear what the true range is. In that example 0-10

OMGtechy

true

@Lokkij hmm, I need to toy with it...

Why the two .'s instead of 3 btw?

Lokkij

Because that's what F# does :P

OMGtechy

aha

Swift has .. mean exclusive and ... mean inclusive

MLM

3 ellipses usually means to unroll the argument

Check the new ES6(javascript) syntax

Lokkij

And it looks slightly better than [min ... step ... max]

OMGtechy

22:11

what's ES6?

@Lokkij I'd say the opposite :P

Lokkij

:)

OMGtechy

Hmm, I'm not sure where to go with this. I could go for "all values matching expression" or "apply expression to all values"

[0 ... 5]^2 or [0 ... n^2 ... 5]

Dave

[]^2 looks neater :P

OMGtechy

But is it clear what it does?

I like it, but I want people to understand it easily

Lokkij

Not to me.

OMGtechy

22:13

it's not good being all clever when noone can understand you :P

C++ is a good example of that aha

Almo

[]^2 looks like it would raise every element to the 2nd power

Lokkij

^

OMGtechy

which is what it does

[0, 1, 4 ... etc

Dave

what are you trying to do firstly?

OMGtechy

just defining a language feature for expressing sequences / ranges / intervals or whatever they're called

so [0 ... 3]^2 would yield 0, 1, 4, 9

I'm warming to it, but I like to keep my options open xD

As that's usually when the bigger ideas appear

MLM

22:16

... in ES6(new javascript) is the spread operator: developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/…

OMGtechy

@MLM ah C++ does that with variadic templates

Lokkij

I thought we were talking about the step. ([0 .. 3]^2 would be equivalent to (int i = 0; i <= 3; i += 2))

OMGtechy

^2 would be applied to each element in the range

0^2, 1^2, 2^2, 3^2

Lokkij

Yeah, then it makes sense.

Dave

thats another way ^ but tedious to write

Icy Defiance

22:17

yeah that makes a lot more sense

for step I like F#'s [0 .. 2 .. 10], oooor [0 .. 10, 2]. either one would work.

Lokkij

I like the second one as well

OMGtechy

ah I see what you mean

Dave

are you looking to write it so its less work or so easier for some one to get it from just reading it

OMGtechy

@Dave just playing with ideas for now

Lokkij

Though the first one looks really nice

OMGtechy

22:19

I prefer the first

as the ] or ) is next to the thing it applies to

[0 ... 2 ... 10)^2

Anko

@ErikE Looked it up out of morbid curiosity: Parquet is from French and approximately "par key". Khaki is "khaah key" and it's from Hindustani apparently. [ pronunciation demos: parquet | khaki ]

OMGtechy

n^2 for n in range(0, 10) would be the python

@Anko I know kharki as a shade of green

Icy Defiance

lol sql style linq in C# would be pretty similar to that too

probably a bit longer though

OMGtechy

Well, I like this, I shall toy with it

and then I shall take over the world

I just discovered why new lines should be at the end of source files

As I've been bitten by it

Anko

@OMGtechy Also a village in India. Man, the word is a confusing place.

OMGtechy

22:22

@Anko it kinda looks like kayak too :P

a little

very little

not much at all

it doesn't does it

Anko

maybe if you squint

a lot

Almo

Always put fucking newlines on your files

:)

ok heading out talk later :)

Lokkij

<-- never puts newlines at EOF

Pip

<-- always puts newlines at EOF

Anko

← uses unicode arrows

Pip

22:24

lol

OMGtechy

<-- doesn't understand what this arrow stuff is about

Lokkij

Hahaha

OMGtechy

« fuck the police

Icy Defiance

wait, why should there be a new line at the end of source files?

visual studio always does that shit on its own and it pisses me off

probably a C++ thing because of the way includes work?

Anko

Seconding @Icy. I've been advised it before but never understood.

OMGtechy

22:25

Because when you print it in the terminal you get a new line rather than having the cursor sitting somewhere on the right

example

cat foo.txt
this is foo's content [terminal thingy]

Icy Defiance

cat should just put the cursor on the next line on its own ._.

stupid cat

almost as bad as real cats

MLM

terminal thingy = caret, I think

OMGtechy

nope, because then if you grep it you have an extra new line @IcyDefiance

or manipulate it any other way

as for C++, the standard requires it.

@MLM carrot.

Anko

zsh puts it on a newline but appends a weirdly highlighted %-sign to indicate the line wasn't newline-terminated

MLM

@OMGtechy yum

OMGtechy

22:27

Atom just appends the new line

notepad++ doesn't care

git gives you evils

Anko

vim also appends the newline on save. TIL.

Icy Defiance

well git is just all evil. it's just the best evil we have for that purpose.

OMGtechy

I love git

When you've screwed up there's always a way to fix it

not like Perforce where it's like well shit

Icy Defiance

it's just overly complicated and far too easy to fuck up in ways that are impossible to understand. the featureset is perfect though.

OMGtechy

I don't think the basics are complex at all

the more complex things though...are...well...more complex.

It's like C++ aha

Anko

22:30

The confusion with rarely used commands might arise from how they're a bit inconsistently named.

Icy Defiance

problem is if you only know the basics, you're a lot more likely to need more than just the basics, because you're going to screw it up somehow

OMGtechy

yeah I'll give you that

I have no idea what rebase actually does for example

I think I know what reset does

Anko

I use commit, add, reset, diff, list and rebase.

OMGtechy

and clean just does its own thing

Anko

rebase is super handy

and super easy to fuck everything up with

Icy Defiance

22:31

I just google my problem and then copy/paste commands until it works ._.

6

OMGtechy

But the joy of git is there's always a way back

MLM

log, status, push

OMGtechy

oh yeah status

status is super handy

Anko

oops, log not list

OMGtechy

git status is great for realising how much you've broken everything xD

Icy Defiance

22:32

lol status is fun. half the time I think it's lying to me because the result doesn't make any sense, so I just move on, and then I fuck up the repo because status wasn't lying at all.

OMGtechy

status knows all

Anko

I have a summary of git status show up in my shell prompt as little coloured lights.

Otherwise I keep accidentally committing stuff I didn't realise was staged.

OMGtechy

How does that even happen?

The only time I accidentally stage things is when I get too wildcard happy

Anko

by doing things without consulting git-status first :p

OMGtechy

ahaha

I git status often to keep a healthy colon

Icy Defiance

22:35

pfft make a good .gitignore file and you can just git add . every time. can't remember the last time I've typed anything more specific.

Anko

But... interactive staging is the shiznits!

OMGtechy

or if you're lazy git commit -a

Icy Defiance

yeah that is nice if you forget to commit for a while

OMGtechy

hmm, if I used ^ for powers ... what should bitwise XOR be?

MLM

@OMGtechy Only do bitwise on binary bin(3) things?

OMGtechy

22:40

maybe

or I could not use ^ for powers

Anko

LiveScript has dots around everything bitwise

Icy Defiance

if I remember right C# intentionally chose not to use ^ for powers, to encourage people to use multiplication instead when reasonable, because it would run faster

Anko

so .&. for bitwise for example

Icy Defiance

should look that up before quoting me on that, though

OMGtechy

@Anko that's a nice idea, thanks :D

@IcyDefiance if you find a source let me know, that's interesting

Icy Defiance

22:43

it was probably just an after-the-fact justification I saw on SO or something. trying to find a source now.

Anko

I doubt that explanation. They could just compile-time convert it to multiplications.

OMGtechy

I'll tell you what does annoy me though; whenever I type C# into chrome it changes it to C/#

Icy Defiance

well here's a dev post on the question: blogs.msdn.com/b/csharpfaq/archive/2004/03/07/85564.aspx

and yeah that annoys me too, but that's only if you type c# first. type your search, then put c# after it, and it works much better.

Dave

< legend of poro king champion

Anko

prepending a space works too

Icy Defiance

22:46

opening a new tab, typing google.com, hitting enter, then typing your search works too
but doing this much typing is almost more evil than using the mouse for something

OMGtechy

I wish they'd stop it doing that

but I cba to complain to anyone who can do anything about it

Anko

@Dave leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Poro ? [confused]

Icy Defiance

Legend of the Poro King is a game mode in LoL, yeah

lots of fun but also horribly unbalanced, which actually keeps it fun because no one gets all that competitive about it

Almo

^

OMGtechy

23:05

@IcyDefiance do you know about trigraphs

I have something to fuel your hate of C++ aha

Icy Defiance

I know about them now :D

Dave

i dont see how unbalanced?

OMGtechy

I just found the best use of a trigraph ever xD

408

Q: What does the C ??!??! operator do?

I saw a line of C that looked like this: !ErrorHasOccured() ??!??! HandleError(); It compiled correctly and seems to run ok. It seems like it's checking if an error has occurred, and if it has, it handles it, but I'm not really sure what it's actually doing or how it's doing it. It does look l...

Dave

you pick your champs and has a ban phase

OMGtechy

I think they're getting removed from the standard soon IIRC

Dave

23:07

aram is unbalanced for sure though

MLM

@Dave Icy or Almo explained it this way to me. Some champs can take better advantage of the poro tele such as Garen

Icy Defiance

@Dave the primary weakness of many champions is their lack of gap closers. like galio. ban phase helps but there are a lot of champs like this and you can't ban them all.

Dave

yeh but you can easily build a team with that in mind

Icy Defiance

helps kat a lot too because she can use her E for escape instead of to initiate

you don't need kat getting more op than she already is

Dave

shes always banned lol

urf mode is next in april can't wait

i hope its even more rediculous as last time

Icy Defiance

23:09

I didn't actually play urf. :( It was available during one of the periods where I quit league.

Dave

urf last year was when i first joined league

it was so boring when it ended i was so used to fast reloads

OMGtechy

virtualtrebuchet.com

Dave

sona was just rediculous she had 1 second cool down

Icy Defiance

lol a lot of people want to combine urf and one for all. get 5 nidalees on each team throwing spears all at once.

Dave

5 le blancs would be confusing as hell

or wukong

Icy Defiance

23:11

no. malphite.

one sec there's a video of this

AttackingHobo

@OMGtechy Interesting. Never heard of the trigraph before.

OMGtechy

I encountered them at work once

and died inside

Icy Defiance

►

Almo

urf just wasn't fun

OMGtechy

this trebuchet sim is addictive

Dave

23:17

@Almo get out.

*points at the exit

Almo

hahaha

Dave

urf was the best by far if u play the right champ

Almo

I had one fun time with urf as ashe

by the end, almost all (or maybe all) opponents had banshee's veils because of all my long-range ults

Dave

ashe is my fav champ

even though shes not the best

Almo

she might be my main this season

Dave

23:19

infact she needs a rework

Almo

i went over 60% last season with her despite my actual main being cait whom i went about 45% with

Dave

her q and e could do we something more useful

OMGtechy

code snippet of the day

Almo

Q is totally useful!

you get out. there's the door. :)

OMGtechy

x[1:> = 4

Almo

23:20

argh

Icy Defiance

actually ashe has a really high win rate right now, even at plat+ ranks

she's entirely useful

Dave

its useful but its not impressive

Almo

I LOVE ASHE'S Q

Icy Defiance

her E is especially useful in solo queue where no one wards

Dave

her lack of escape is not great though

Icy Defiance

23:21

ult == best escape ever

Dave

u need distance for it to stun longer

her e should be allowed to be double tapped to allow u to jump away

that would be awesome

Icy Defiance

doesn't matter. few champs have more than one gap closer. let them use it, then stun, then kite. they won't touch you.

I've wrecked so many xins and vis that way

Dave

do u build boots with her?

cos i dont

Icy Defiance

always build boots. bf sword, then first boots, then IE, then berserker's, then statik shiv, then last whisper. every game.

at the very end of the game, if you have all your items, then you can replace boots with zephyr

Dave

i go for life steal and damage and armour pen

shiv is like 4th or 5th item

Icy Defiance

23:23

ashe is HUGE with crits, and shiv makes even more huge. if you get 3 kills in lane, then buy shiv, your first hit on anyone will take 1/2 their hp just like that.

Dave

yeh but i need the follow up to finish it

thats what works for me

Icy Defiance

well yeah, you're an adc, you just keep attacking

Dave

plus i dont think the shiv damage affects life steal

at least i dont think it does

Icy Defiance

it doesn't, but life steal is shit right now. even moreso because BT got nerfed and only gives the same ad that IE does now.

if you really want lifesteal, build a vamp scepter after IE and berserker's, then just leave it unfinished until after you finish last whisper.

I usually don't bother and just build whisper, then bt after that

Dave

well i still think ashe could do with more movement ability

Icy Defiance

23:28

well, yeah, being able to move would be a buff for her, but not one she needs.

ashe isn't the only one either. mf, varus, jinx, and draven all have little mobility, at least until after you get a kill.

the ones that do have mobility (ez and kalista) just don't have the same amount of damage that the rest do. well, there's corki too, both his mobility and damage are insane, and he's considered god tier because of it. he needs a nerf.

Dave

lucian has a bit

and he does a fair bit of damage although i hate his ult

Icy Defiance

yeah lucian was on the same tier as corki until they nerfed his double-shot's damage and gave his dash a mana cost just a couple patches ago

right now it's graves, jinx, and corki that are god tier as far as adcs go

Dave

jinx when she has attack speed is deadly

Icy Defiance

yes but she's not op because of the attack speed. she's op because of the movement speed after she gets a kill/assist. if one person on your team dies to her, you all die. shut her down all game, then have one bad engage in one team fight and bam she's fed again.

kat is the same with her stupid cd resets. one person dies and she just jumps all over the place mopping up your entire team. kat is the one champ that can get a pentakill so fast that she's done before the first person even realized he died.

Almo

@Dave I'm not sure you understand playbalance if you think ashe needs an escape

Dave

23:38

she just does either that or her q needs to be more slowing

i find if im against another adc with a longer range than me i simply have no way to win without jungle's help which is annoying cos i hate relying on jungle

Almo

I find I have no problem with Ashe killing enemy ADCs even if they have more range, provided I get ahead in health

since he golds faster due to E, you out damage your opps and they can't escape due to Q

OMGtechy

@Dave what're you thoughts on duck typing

Dave

i only own a cat so i don't know how well they type with their webbed feet

OMGtechy

ahaha

Dave

but my cat is a dick she just lies on the entire keyboard

OMGtechy

23:46

Duck typing

In computer programming with object-oriented programming languages, duck typing is a style of typing in which an object's methods and properties determine the valid semantics, rather than its inheritance from a particular class or implementation of an explicit interface. The name of the concept refers to the duck test, attributed to James Whitcomb Riley (see history below), which may be phrased as follows: When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck. In duck typing, a programmer is only concerned with ensuring that objects behave...

As a javascript guy I thought you'd be a good one to ask

Dave

so its just self explainatory naming in the code?

Icy Defiance

well #1 @Dave, adcs don't duel. I mean, once in a while you might want to duel, but not often enough to be part of your calculations. While laning you should have your support with you, and the rest of the time your only job is to do a shitload of damage in team fights.

OMGtechy

If you have type A that has a method named foo and type B that has a method named foo, you can use them in a function that requires a type to have a method foo without needing interfaces or inheritance @Dave

Icy Defiance

Give an adc some cc on top of that damage and it becomes even more op in team fights. And ashe's stun is HUGE.

Dave

@OMGtechy tbh as a self taught programmer im not the cleanest - if you saw my code you would die like a taylor swift fan

OMGtechy

23:50

I saw your code before and I don't remember dying :P

I'm self taught too <3

Icy Defiance

I died when I saw his code, but I figured it was just typical javascript, not his fault. :P

2

OMGtechy

ahaha

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