Game Development

BlueBug

00:24

@AlexM. Alex Alex ALex, I has Unity question. May can you answer?

BlueBug

00:44

eh I am trying to solve z-fighting issues; render last added object over others all the time, if they were on the same z. Can't find an easy fix :(

woot found it :D answers.unity3d.com/questions/473217/…

"... What you normally have to do is "microstack" that layer " damn it. I did not want to do that. sigh not happy solution...

Raven Dreamer

00:58

Does @Byte54 still hang around in here?

Aidan Mueller

hello.

BlueBug

olla

Aidan Mueller

Math joke: What do you get when you cross a mountain climber and a mosquito?

Raven Dreamer

Integrals!

(I have no idea)

Aidan Mueller

Nothing; You can't cross a scaler!

Raven Dreamer

01:07

Cross product pun. Nice.

BlueBug

...trick question damn it.

Aidan Mueller

OGAT is updating again? Man they release quickly.

hasherr

@RavenDreamer He comes around every once in a while.

He isn't like Josh, though, where he is proactively in the room.

Aidan Mueller

@hasherr Who made floppy fish before you?

hasherr

Some Unity dev.

It was pretty crappy, imo.

Matt D

01:15

?

hasherr

Then again, I am the guy who also made a crappy Flappy Bird clone.

Matt D

a friend of mine has a pebble, it has flappy birds on it

i think that has become the new pong in terms of development

hasherr

Have you played my game yet Matt?

Matt D

nope

im at work so kinda busy :)

hasherr

:(

Aidan Mueller

01:16

@hasherr Then you should have just called your game "Extra floppy fish".

hasherr

Nope, I like Ghosts better.

The concept of a ghost not being able to go through walls is comedic.

Aidan Mueller

Or "Floppy and slippery fish".

hasherr

Also, I didn't want to name my game 'Flappy Object' I wanted something a little bit more original

So that's why it's called 'Ghostly.'

And not "FLAPPY GHOST"

Some 110bpm for you guys:

►

BlueBug

I am feeling like something more "scratch"

►

hasherr

Still my favorie MC song.

►

The guy who made this is younger than me. Incredible.

BlueBug

01:26

WTF r u serious?

hasherr

Not kidding. Nitro is 15.

Ridiculously talented.

Matt D

maybe im old

but i'd rather 15 year olds were out being kids

because when you hit mid-late 30's you'd wish you'd spent more time eating dirt and climbing trees

BlueBug

"...15 year old mexican producer who likes chiptune and stuff" Jesus... the boy is a dragon born.

hasherr

Things have changed since you were young. That playfulness that we love as children these days ends around 12/13. Being social and having a clique is more important these days.

Also, plenty of 15 year olds have jobs and other responsibilities

Matt D

it feels as though we've gone backwards on how we treat "youth"

oh well. reason #238490284190242 im not having kids ;)

hasherr

01:31

How so?

Matt D

theres a lot more adveritsing media pressure on being successful younger

BlueBug

Not necessarily it is a bad thing, I think. You still can be "kid" have "kid time" while trying to do something cool.

hasherr

That's true. Being youthful has definitely gotten harder with each generation.

BlueBug

Link : nitrofun soundcloud Hardly belivable these beats r from 15 years old kid. I suppose his parents r really embracing him onto this path.

hasherr

Look at where he lives, dude. He lives in the fucking heart of Mexico.

How the fuck do you make electronic music in El Pueblo del Centre de Mexico

Matt D

01:41

you just do it?

i mean. i was playing with trackers at 15

hasherr

BUT IN EL PUEBLO POBRE?

Matt D

that doesnt really mean much to me

im in australia remember

hasherr

Were you in El Pueblo Pequeno con la arena?

no.

BlueBug

That's very profound statement. I like it. "how do you do this, this is... amazing" "you just, do it" with trace of smile.

Matt D

its like all things. practice makes perfect. the "practice" bit keeps getting left out of the modern narrative.

its all instant success.

also, when you're a kid, you're fearless, you dont understand the rules, nor are you aware of them. so you just do things.

hasherr

01:45

That's the only reason why I'm a programmer. Because I was crazy enough to think that I could actually do it.

And I did.

Matt D

you dont think "is there a market for this? can i sell this? how do i pay my rent"

hasherr

Lol, 'rent'

Pfffttttt

Matt D

you also don't grasp the amount of time it takes to properly finish something. so you aren't afraid to start. which is the real kicker with experience. I know how long things take to finish. do I really want to invest that much time into things?

its tricky

hasherr

I kind of want to make another game.

But I need to work on web dev stuffz

ToddersLegrande

At your age I'd vote you do what you enjoy and not what you think it is you need to do

Matt D

01:49

one of the things that I am most looking forward to with getting back into games is that I'm looking forward to letting myself get wrapped up in something, diving in, surrounding myself with it again. I've missed that.

hasherr

@ToddersLegrande Well, right now I need to learn how to make web stuff so that I can make my own website to host a portfolio. Which I want to do. :P

But I have the impulse to work on games right now.

Matt D

what i suggest si this

get some hosting.

hasherr

@MattD That is either the greatest or the worst feeling in the world.

ToddersLegrande

I vote at your age your portfolio doesn't need to be at the top of your list and you can do some impulse game dev :P

Aidan Mueller

Ever heard of Onion News network?

hasherr

01:50

I love the onion

ToddersLegrande

The Onion's hometown is in my state

Matt D

@hasherr in all seriousness, get some hosting. then open a blog on wordpresses's site, and point stuff to your hosting.

Aidan Mueller

onion.com/1gP7gFy

hasherr

Corn's hometown is in my state

@MattD Ugh, I don't like wordpress

I want to make my own website

Matt D

no one, not even professional web devs, do that

start with a CMS, customise it

hasherr

01:51

The hell is a CMS?

ToddersLegrande

Content Management System

Matt D

content management system, wordpress, joomla, drupal, umbraco, sitecore, etc etc

ToddersLegrande

example of an application in the whole documents vs application conversation we had the other day

hasherr

But I don't like CMS's.

Aidan Mueller

Just use WordPress. Even LudumDare is using it. You are probably going to implement most of the stuff that word press does for you, except word press will do a better job at it.

hasherr

01:52

I'm very DIY in these cases, this is the same way I feel about Unity.

Matt D

if your goal is to learn how to build websites. then build a website. if your goal is to make a website. then use a CMS

its the same thing with games and engines

Aidan Mueller

@hasherr I used to be too. I was almost crazy enough to implement my own C++ GUI library.

hasherr

'Why don't you use Unity? It's the best for making games. You could make so many games. Your games would be so fun. You could make Android games. Why don't you use it?'

Because I don't fucking want to, that's why

Matt D

if your goal is to learn how to write engines. then write one. if your goal is to make a game then make a game. writing an engine is not how you make a game

hasherr

I don't get any sense of accomplishment

Matt D

01:53

@AidanMueller i will, one day, write my own UI library.

hasherr

'Make' and 'build' are the same thing, no?

Aidan Mueller

@hasherr Your a gamedev, not a webdev.

ToddersLegrande

Don't tell him that :O

hasherr

I made Facebook == I built Facebook

@AidanMueller I'll be whatever I want to be. I can be both, or I could be neither.

BlueBug

You can feel more accomplished starting from scratch. I used to. Then After making a few apps all from scratch, I gave up the notion; it's just too much work compared to using tools like Unity.

ToddersLegrande

01:55

^

hasherr

If a day ever comes where I have to use Unity, I'll probably stop making games altogether.

BlueBug

more like, you will prob feel exhausted starting from scratch :P I don't think you will give up gaming the whole just cuz you have to use unity.

hasherr

Because at that point I'll know that I'm not getting any sense of accomplishment in the field and that I should try other things.

Matt D

@hasherr are you interested in making games, or making technology

hasherr

@BlueBug It's not because I have to use Unity, but it's because I've ran out of motivation.

Both, Matt.

ToddersLegrande

01:56

I don't think hasherr completely "gets" Unity

hasherr

What does 'gets' mean?

Matt D

i think he's more interested in making technology than games

which is totally fine

i just dont think he's realised it yet ;)

hasherr

I don't know what I want, really. I know making games can be fun.

ToddersLegrande

That could be

hasherr

And I'm not really good at anything else

So that's what I do.

BlueBug

01:57

You are still young bro. No need to decided yet :D

Aidan Mueller

@hasherr I used to be very DIY. I still am, but not as much. The way I see it though, is that there is no sense in trying to make a website from scratch if I can use a CMS so that I can spend more time on the important part. Using a CMS does not have to be a permanent solution BTW!

hasherr

Here's the thing. I don't like to use technology which controls my project. I like to build my project around a tech and make the tech bend to my rules, and not me bending to the tech's rules.

BlueBug

me going for dinner, peace v_v

hasherr

I get that feeling using Unity and CMS.

There's nothing there for me.

Matt D

thats ok

it just will take you a lot longer to reach the "goal". if the "goal" is the resulting "thing"

most people arent interested in how to make the "thing", they want the "thing" done so they can move on to other "things"

hasherr

02:01

Yeah, that's just not... me.

I like making all of it. In fact, I like making all of it so much that I enjoy it.

Matt D

just be aware that you're busy re-inventing the wheel

hasherr

Starting a project from absolute 0 (besides any frameworks or anything like that) is enjoyable to me because I get to look at it and say 'I made that.'

While I could say the same thing about a Unity project, for some reason it just feels 'empty.'

Matt D

I understand what you mean.

hasherr

I can't explain it, I just know that it's me

Matt D

I feel like that about unit too.

But its a tool, and once you treat it as such you can gain joy from finishing other things with it :)

ToddersLegrande

02:04

Somewhere down the chain you have to use tools to finish things

Matt D

you really dont

hasherr

I don't mind using tools. I use a lot of existing software and such for so many things.

Matt D

but its more that people far smarter than you or I have already solved all the problems you're having.

hasherr

But I don't like using tools that seem to do too much for me.

Matt D

so rather than spend 5 years writing your own version of unity. you can use theirs now

unless thats your thing. in which case, go for it

basically, you'd make a good tools programmer ;)

ToddersLegrande

02:06

My opinion is if you want to go that low you probably shouldn't focus your efforts on making games but then the tech for making a game instead then. Same with a website. The majority of jobs out there, yeah being able to make things is great, but if you know how to make things with the tools the company uses, even better.

Matt D

you have to eat your own dog food

ToddersLegrande

I don't know much about the games industry as I'm not in it, but for the web industry there is a bigger market for CMS implementers / customizers than CMS writers

hasherr

@MattD Like I said, I don't know what i want to work in. I don't think I want to work in games, though. It's always existed as a hobby.

Matt D

i like to make the sandboxes that other people play in

but thats me

ToddersLegrande

And if you only take your skills as far as making a thing from low level without making an advanced tool of your own to get there, your just a custom developer with no tool experience which there are too many of you

(again, in the web industry)

At least if you focus on the ins and outs of the tech and actually make a tool, you could get a job making tools whether it be your own home grown product or on another company's product

Matt D

02:09

well, that was kind of what im getting at here :) in that it sounds like you like making tools more than the end product

which is totally awesome

ToddersLegrande

^

Matt D

I also fall into that category. most of the time.

ToddersLegrande

But then do that. Don't make end products. Or if you do, make end products out of your tools

hasherr

@MattD Hey, I was thinking about writing a basic UI library for LibGDX, since I dislike LibGDX's UI that uses Json parsing and such.

I wanted your opinion on it.

Matt D

if you're going to build a UI library

personally, i'd make it run html/css/js

hasherr

02:11

...

ToddersLegrande

Awesomium wewt

hasherr

It's for mobile games.

Matt D

because I hate life, and you can use it on everything, including the web

hasherr

But when I wrote my Button class for my last game it was literally just a sprite with an action

Matt D

so

there's a trick with UI's, and that is. "where do you put your state".

a lot of people push state out to the leaf nodes (buttons, etc). but in reality that gets very unwieldy fast. especially if you have radio buttons. say you have 3 of them, but only 1 can be selected at once. who holds the selected state? each of the 3? or the container they sit in?

hasherr

02:14

I'd say the container

I'd say to group them.

Matt D

so naturally, you push "state" up the hierarchy (and ui's are mostly hierarchical) but you dont want to push it too far up the hierarchy, as that ends up in the most ridiculously overcomplicated single point of failure type situation and hampers your reuse

Raven Dreamer

@hasherr Eh, no biggie. Wanted to talk to him about a post of mine he answered (before I asked him to delete the question).

Matt D

but that tends to be the biggest thing to consider. where do you put your state?

ToddersLegrande

Yeah so there is one minor issue with hasherrs approach of wanting to do all the things from scratch. This is nothing on you, hash, since I would be in the same boat, but if you haven't had to work on advanced "thing" then how will you know how to implement it for other people to use so that it will work for them in an advanced thing?

Trial and error is the best I got but I would personally find that frustrating :)

hasherr

Trial and error is frustrating, I agree, but it's what I get the most reward out of. Failing, failing, failing, failing, failing, and then finally succeeding gives me a high like no other.

@ToddersLegrande Also, what about me making projects from scratch implies that I'm not doing advanced things?

Matt D

02:17

remember one thing. that someone far smarter than you has already solved this problem. you have almost the entire sum of human history at your fingertips. use it!. Someone will have solved something similar, or the exact same thing. learn from them. You dont have to brute force everything yourself (even if that IS fun sometimes).

ToddersLegrande

I mean like, if you haven't worked with high level UI libraries (I realize you have but as an example), how do you know what should go into one?

Matt D

its a good way to find out ;)

is build a few yourself

i've done it a few times now :)

ToddersLegrande

But then you need an end product to work towards to see if your tool works out

hasherr

'Programming is the best way to learn how to program.' - Everyone ever

ToddersLegrande

That statement is far too broad

hasherr

02:19

@ToddersLegrande Not always. I don't always know how my projects are going to turn out

Look at ghostly

Matt D

I do agree with that. tools which are created with no target in mind are focuesless piles of crap

hasherr

It started out as a fish that I wasnt even going to release publicly

Matt D

i think what @ToddersLegrande is trying to say is "have a target in mind for your tool".

hasherr

And now: 6 TOTAL DOWNLOADS

For me, there's always a target area, but never just a single point.

ToddersLegrande

I was going with, how do you know what features you would like in your tool and how you are going to make something that you and other developers are going to like if you haven't worked with similars tools that you do and don't like. It's kind of like you are just guessing and hoping it works out

Matt D

02:20

and only build the features you need right now

ToddersLegrande

And this ^ brings me all the way back around to Josh's build games not engines article which we obviously don't need to discuss because we know hasherr doesn't really care to just focus on a game

hasherr

@ToddersLegrande Experience is necessary. I never said that. Like I said, I use plenty of tools for dev all the time.

ToddersLegrande

@hasherr how many UI libraries have you used?

Matt D

at least one

ToddersLegrande

What didn't you like about them? What DID you like about them? How would you want to improve them?

hasherr

02:22

LibGDX's UI lib, Android's UI, Swing

Does Swing count?

ToddersLegrande

Sure

hasherr

Okay.

ToddersLegrande

I'm not accusing you of not having experience. Just making a point that we have a kind of chicken vs egg scenario on the overall concept

Not specific to UI libraries, twas just an example

hasherr

I see.

v

Alright, its been a good chat, but it's late and I won't be able to wake up in the morning if I stay up, so night.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

Matt D

night man :)

ToddersLegrande

02:23

Later dood

Matt D

go forth, make awesometools

ToddersLegrande

^^

Matt D

just dont forget to use them ;)

ToddersLegrande

This man is a genius

Matt D

so is your spelling ;)'

ToddersLegrande

02:24

yeah I always misspell that ...

JERK

my brain sounds out things and my fingers just type

subsequently I will occasionally use the wrong form of a word, such as their they're there, even though I know perfectly well which is which

I really need to slow down in chat and read what I type

hasherr

Side note before I leave: I can never spell criticize right. I mess it up. Every. Single. Time

Christian Careaga

03:24

Does anyone know how i could rotate an image around a point other than the center

user4704

03:38

Yes.

user4704

Translate the image such that the rotation point is the origin, rotate, translate back.

user4704

I'm pretty sure there is a question on the topic on the site.

BlueBug

06:00

lel I found this game, box-ception.

kayabros.itch.io/intothebox

Aidan Mueller

06:25

"Have you ever had a fly or small bug land on your computer screen and your first reaction is to try and scare it with the cursor?" - Anonymous

BlueBug

hurhurhur

Aidan Mueller

The truth is, you can't actually scare a fly with your cursor, because to my understanding, time moves much slower to them. So all they would see, is a field of squares that are slowly changing color.

BlueBug

woo ha! their perception of time is slower than us? Dat's cool.

Aidan Mueller

@BlueBug I think I heard that somewhere. It'd explain why they always seem to know it's coming.

BlueBug

06:45

The guy on the right is amazing, I assume that he's understanding all the details as the glassed guy explains.

Aidan Mueller

@BlueBug I would give up on "what's an electron", by simply walking away.

BlueBug

hurhurhur

TBH I'd give up if I have to go through explaining more than two concepts; I can never teach someone.

skiwi

07:50

morning

Kevin van der Velden

Morning

skiwi

:o Dutch people

Kevin van der Velden

Well, singular, not plural

I might be insane, but not that insane

skiwi

well, I'm also dutch

so that makes us plural!

Kevin van der Velden

Ooh

Jeah dutch people!

skiwi

07:52

What do you do for a living? If I may ask

Kevin van der Velden

I'm a programmer at a small-ish company, you?

skiwi

Student Computer Science Bachelor at Eindhoven

You do anything game development related?

Kevin van der Velden

Only in my spare time :(

skiwi

That sounds like you want to do more with it

Kevin van der Velden

Well, I am in the game development chat room =p

skiwi

07:57

What do you do then in the company?

as job

Kevin van der Velden

Small enough company to not have actual job titles, basically programmer (using ASP.Net (C#), MSSQL, HTML/JavaScript)

BlueBug

morNING!

Kevin van der Velden

Morning, I think? o.o

skiwi

wow no job titles :p

but okay

Lasse

10:04

Morning (actually noon)

Kevin van der Velden

Morning (still morning over here :) )

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Has google changed their layout or have i borked something?

Kevin van der Velden

You done borked son. At least, the base google layout remains unchanged for me

As far as I can tell

Lasse

If you type "google" in google, internet implodes

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

Just seems like the font has gotten a bit larger

Alex M.

10:19

yo

William 'MindWorX' Mariager

hoho

Alex M.

1

Q: Solving the "out of sight, out of mind" problem with telepresence

I have a product development department in Mexico, we collaborate mainly with Michigan and distance seems to be a problem as with all distributed teams. Whenever I travel to Michigan, I end up solving all kinds of pending matters with people just by bumping into them in hallways, so I thought "i...

whoa that sounds creepy

imagine that happening w/ this one guy constantly showing up on huge TVs in your offices

going on like

"... and don't forget the uniform. People not wearing uniforms will be considered spies and shot on sight. Global Tech wishes you a happy and productive day!"

Kevin van der Velden

Lo

►

Alex M.

that ad is as good as people say it is

Kevin van der Velden

Which is extremely rare, most ads are even worse than people say they are

Alex M.

10:36

a computer shop has one of these on display

Macintosh 128K

The Macintosh 128K, released initially as simply the "Apple Macintosh" (without the 128k designation), is the original Apple Macintosh personal computer. Its beige case contained a monitor and came with a keyboard and mouse. A handle built into the top of the case made it easier for the computer to be lifted and carried. It had an initial selling price of US$2,495 (US$5,595 adjusted for inflation). The Macintosh was introduced by the now famous $900,000 television commercial by Ridley Scott, "1984", that most notably aired on CBS during the third quarter of Super Bowl XVIII on January 2...

I wonder if they'd sell it lol

Lasse

It's still a mac

Kevin van der Velden

@AlexM. sure, for a lot of money =p

Huh, I did not know Ridley Scott made the 1984 ad

Jon

11:12

They most likely picked him because he had just recently done Blade Runner, which depicted a stunning post apocalyptic world

(stunning at the time it was made)

Lasse

11:36

Uh how is passing values done in java? Are they passed by reference or copied in memory?

CalculatePoint (0, p0, p1, p2, p3, path[index++]);

I want that function to be able to write to the path array value

1203

Q: Is Java "pass-by-reference"?

I always thought Java was pass-by-reference; however I've seen a couple of blog posts (e.g. this blog) that claim it's not. I don't think I understand the distinction they're making. Could someone explain it please ?

java parameter-passing terminology pass-by-reference pass-by-value

I guess I could google first

Kevin van der Velden

Probably

Alex M.

most likely

Kevin van der Velden

Or wait until I'm halfway through answering and then google it =p

Big meanie

Lasse

Ohhh that's always better

Alex M.

wow kevin

you must be really slow

how long does it take to make a lmgtfy link?

:P

Kevin van der Velden

11:39

@AlexM. I said he was a big meanie, I'm not mean!

Alex M.

lol ok

Kevin van der Velden

Or well, I am but I don't link to lmgtfy because I hate that

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