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4:02 AM
@Mooseman would love for you to join in as well
 
Mooseman's on mobile.
 
@J.Musser I'll be able to better revise my questions in the morning when I'm not on mobile. Thanks for the 1k congrats! :)
 
Almost rhymes!
@Mooseman completely understood. Also, would you mind guiding new askers in the right direction in this respect?
 
@ZachSaucier Can you fill me in a bit? Thanks.
 
we've been working collectively on the scope/direction of Lifehacks and have gotten pretty far I believe
 
4:05 AM
@Mooseman It'll be much less a pain when you're off mobile.
 
describing it to @Sompuperoo if he ever responds :P
13 mins ago, by Zach Saucier
We'll start with our (meaning J.Musser, MattS. and I's) definition of lifehack: http://meta.lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/8/what-is-a-lifehack/1159#1159
 
The mobile interface is such a pain to use.
 
@J.Musser Will do. Now that we're starting to get a bit of a consensus here, we (hopefully) won't get close wars, etc.
 
@Mooseman Yes. Matt is writing up a meta post that we can use to clean the entire site and update the help center with.
 
@ZachSaucier +1
 
4:10 AM
yay!
 
@ZachSaucier Your answer there of defining "What is a lifehack?". I say that is spot on. But I don't see anyway of changing that to provide a more narrow set of questions that can be asked. But I guess we could do that with off-topic reason suggestions?
 
@J.Musser "clean the entire site". Very nice.
 
now we move to questions:
1
A: How do we define what is on-topic without requiring the questioner to know the answer to their question?

Zach SaucierWell, if the community ends up accepting a definition of Lifehack like how I have defined it, then we determine if a question is on topic by the following: The question is about a real, physical problem. The user shows that they have put thought and effort into the question before posting. The ...

here's what we're thinking, would love to hear feedback
is there anything we're missing? Something you have doubts about?
 
@Sompuperoo With the post Matt is working on, we can go from that with the customizeable sections of the help center and our three customizeable close reasons.
That will be our starting point.
 
I have a list of my answers that will need to be slightly updated/refer to the post already :)
Shields online. Guns ready. We go on your mark, Captain.
 
4:14 AM
We will not change it unless a huge issue unexpectedly comes up and shows that something has to change.
2
Q: Smell bad but no deodorant

Khan PowerIf I ever smell bad because of physical activity or just in general, and I have no deodorant available, what could I do to reduce or perhaps even eliminate the smell? I know people most likely want a "what I've tried" list, but I can't seem to think of anything I could possibly do in this situat...

^^ will be off-topic under the new guidelines.
:(
Not sure how to tell the user, as he can't fix it.
 
let's think about it for a bit
before responding
 
> all I have done is avoided people and crossed my arms the entire time
 
That's why I posted here :)
 
is avoiding the situation an attempt?
 
@Sompuperoo Not good to do when trying to uphold a standard.
 
4:16 AM
my thought: couldn't he have tried applying more ahead of time? Or switched brands to something that works longer?
 
Which part of the guidelines? The "what have you tried"?
 
@ZachSaucier He probably doesn't know when it's coming.
 
@ZachSaucier And those aren't hacks
 
do people not wear deodorant when they don't think they'll be doing physical activity? I always sweat some no matter the day, haha
@Mooseman I'm saying it for, "What have you tried", not hacks :P
 
@Mooseman That, and yes/no questions are off-topic, among other things..
 
4:18 AM
it's simply solved by carrying a small travel size deodorant stick in your car/person/purse
 
@Mooseman @Sompuperoo what do you think of our question requirements?
@Sompuperoo that wouldn't fit as a good answer according to our definition of lifehacks
 
@ZachSaucier Right. I haven't been on meta much today. Where does the community stand on common sense now?
 
well, we haven't posted all that much today, just in this chat
 
I think that carrying a small stick of deodorant is not "not desirable" , since it's a fairly tiny burden to carry one around in your car/person/purse.
 
according to our definition,
> The user provides reasoning for why the standard way of solving the problem (for their area) is unavailable or undesirable.
 
4:20 AM
@ZachSaucier Mobile chat is a mess. Can you post a link?
 
@Mooseman We've been discussing in chat all day.
 
thus, "common sense" would fall under the standard way of solving it. The user needs to specify why it wouldn't work
@J.Musser I think our guidelines still hold
 
@Mooseman Common sense, if it doesn't fit with our definition of a lifehack, does not constitute a good answer.
 
we can lead users to things they've tried (or at least they can fake that they've tried, haha)
 
@ZachSaucier Yup, which I've been working at.
 
4:22 AM
I just tried it out
Have you tried applying more deodorant before hand? How about switching brands to a longer lasting one? Carrying a stick of deodorant with you? — Zach Saucier 2 mins ago
 
Ah... you must deny the "common sense method"... So that should be a close reason...
 
he should be able to update his question to be valid
@Mooseman yes :)
2 hours ago, by Zach Saucier
one is "This question does not provide reasoning for why the standard way of solving the problem (for their area) is unavailable or undesirable." or something similar for sure
 
@Mooseman it is the default ot reason already - no need to use a custom space.
 
Why the "for their area"? If we don't know where a user is irl...
 
@Mooseman because people have different cultures/backgrounds
 
4:24 AM
maybe there should be a OT close reason for "there is already a very easy, very affordable solution to this issue, thus any life hacks at resolving this issue would provide a very minimal benefit if any"
 
in the orange peeler example (posted in a meta or two), some people don't know what an orange peeler is
so they post about what they commonly do, say why it doesn't work, and someone can suggest an orange peeler
 
@Sompuperoo The general ot reason suffices for that.
 
But that shouldn't make "use an orange other" a valid answer, right?
 
@Sompuperoo that is too grey and requires an answer before the question can be closed (which doesn't work)
@Mooseman it would be if the user is from a different culture, me thinks
@J.Musser double check me on this ^^
 
So common sense isn't common to all users... Not a great basis for community, in afraid.
 
4:26 AM
Why's that?
 
> This question does not appear to be about lifehacks, within the scope defined in the help center.
 
most questions wouldn't be like that anyway, but edge cases are important nonetheless
 
will cover a lot more once the help center's updated.
@ZachSaucier agreed.
 
cool
 
That is, if it's a close reason. So the biggest thing now is that users invite what they've tried.
 
4:27 AM
weird, my cancel editing button is missing
 
* include
 
@Mooseman "include", yes :)
and that they're asking for a hacky solution because that didn't work
 
@Mooseman That will be one of the custom reasons I'm pretty sure.
 
It has to be
 
So once somebody recommends an orange peeler and the OP accepts it, the question is to be closed?
 
4:31 AM
@Mooseman It it was ot, it closing should happen first.
 
Because if it is, that's backwards for SE, and if it's not, that makes lifehack too broad.
 
6 mins ago, by Zach Saucier
@Mooseman it would be if the user is from a different culture, me thinks
was trying to give an example of how common answers work in our system
 
But once we update, we probably will have to close quite a few answered questions.
 
@J.Musser But assume they said "I tried my fingers and they get all sticky, so that's not good" which is on topic
 
@ZachSaucier Or my answer here: lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/73/…
@Mooseman They have to explain how they used their fingers, and why it's no good.
 
4:34 AM
@Mooseman you raise a good point that we haven't thought about in depth (as far as I know)
I suppose we'd have to accept an orange peeler as an answer
but I think we need to push that if there is a product like that, a life hacky alternative is required
2
what do you think @J.Musser?
 
@Mooseman you can still cv as vlq/no effort if we want that.
@ZachSaucier Good thought.
Hiya @iliveunderawesomerock
 
@J.Musser Are there wildly different ways to peel an orange with your fingers? The goal is to not be sticky-fingered.
 
@Mooseman Actually, there are, if you're creative like me. :D
 
ya, I definitely think that needs to be a clarification
but it does fit under our current rules
 
Duplicates will have to be very carefully voted upon as well...
 
4:38 AM
> reasoning for why the standard way of solving the problem is unavailable
 
@Mooseman yes.
@ZachSaucier very good.
 
someone please star that thought so we don't loose track (above what do you think @j.Musser)
 
Can't start on mobile...
Or edit, for that matter.
 
not that one :P
4 mins ago, by Zach Saucier
but I think we need to push that if there is a product like that, a life hacky alternative is required
 
which?
 
4:39 AM
^^ this one
ty
2 :O
haha
@Mooseman @Sompuperoo so you like our question requirements now? :D
 
How should we enforce that?
 
@J.Musser well, for it to be a good answer it has to be available
 
I think it's at the very least a big step in the right direction. :)
 
enforce by downvotes should be adequate, I'd think
 
@ZachSaucier and in the case that it isn't included and the answer gets upvoted and accepted nonetheless?
 
4:41 AM
trying to show support for the movement
 
I should really call it a night though. Night!
 
@J.Musser so it shall be. We can only enforce behavior so much
 
Night!
 
we'll link to a meta post as reason
 
@ZachSaucier Until there are some mods.
 
4:42 AM
not sure what you're getting at
if the community understands all that we propose (which I hope we make it easy), it'll become part of the culture hopefully
 
Even with our nice new system, the site could still be a mess without proper reinforcement.
 
for that reason I really want to read over @MattS.'s post before he posts it, even if that means he has to wait a few hours until I'm back
 
Most beta sites, most of the users don't even look at meta.
 
@J.Musser of course!
@J.Musser I know that
but the ones that do should help out
 
Which I will.
 
4:44 AM
and we have at least 5 people that seem to agree with us already
 
@ZachSaucier yup.
 
alright, I need to go. Some friends and I are supposed to be climbing some buildings shortly
 
@ZachSaucier OK, cya!
I'm gonna get off too.
 
I'll be back in a couple hours @MattS. Make sure to ping us, hopefully we can review it before you post!
 
I'll be sleeping. :(
I'll have to look at it tomorrow morning.
 
4:48 AM
we should be able to wait that long
 
Or I can recommend changes after it's posted.
If I see the need.
 
@J.Musser Hello J. Musser, not trying to be rude but why are you pinging me? It was you, right?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:56 AM
@ZachSaucier ^^ There's a pastebin of what I have written up so far. I'm going to bed now. I'll post it tomorrow after I get feedback and think up how to end it.
@J.Musser ^^ Same to you
 
7:40 AM
0
Q: Why is J Musser pursuing a vendetta against me?

Kevin JohnsrudeHe doesn't know me well enough to hate me. :-) Aside from the personal attacks, he is now doing cut and paste challenges of most of my posts. He also now has the second highest reputation in the group. This the guy you guys want as a moderator? No worries on my part, I'm headed off anyways.

 
8:40 AM
0
Q: How do I turn off the inbox for lifehacks inbox?

Kevin JohnsrudeI'd like to turn off the inbox messages for comments on my lifehacks SE posts as the red flag is distracting when I'm on other SE sites and it looks like my posts will be getting a lot of comments for awhile. Thanks!

 
9:35 AM
@MattS. I'll just comment instead of making changes so you can weigh in and keep the voice consistent. The link for 26 is wrong, not sure what you want there. I think it's be handy to have something like "After much deliberation, here is the scope of Lifehacks:" before the definition. I might add a section about what this defined scope adds, meaning a brief description of what it lets us do like close questions without answers, prevents much overlap, require higher quality questions
and answers, and how to handle "standard/conventional answers"
In case you missed it, we talked about the last point some and have a new requirement:
5 hours ago, by Zach Saucier
but I think we need to push that if there is a product like that, a life hacky alternative is required
you can read the surrounding posts, but essentially this is because the "standard/conventional answer" is unavailable for the quick solution - that's covered in our definition of lifehack
 
the content of those 2 feeds above don't look good
 
@SabreTooth it's just a raging user
I think the site is coming along quite nicely, but we'll see when this is posted
 
tbh, I am reluctant to join and contribute, untill all is sorted and stabilised
 
can't blame you. It should be soon, me thinks
 
9:53 AM
but that user seems very upset
 
@MattS. We need some title in a heading to distinguish where the links stop and definition starts. To be honest not many people will look at the links. Aren't "Questions asking to verify if a lifehack works" yes or no questions? Perhaps combine those paragraphs. I think we need to include the requirement that questions be applicable to a wide range of people. As for a closing, we should emphasize that these need to be carried out across the board, but I'm not sure how else to finish it off
Besides that it looks pretty good. A few small English corrections to make but I really think it's a good scope and that people will be alright with the outcome
(looking back at my blocks of text I probably should have broken them up more, sorry :P )
 
but, will people read it?
 
the definition of lifehack should read as follows:
> A lifehack is a technique that can be implemented quickly which is used to make one's physical life more efficient when a more standard approach (as defined by that area's experts) is unavailable or not desirable. Lifehacks are creative, meaning they use materials that are generally not used for this purpose and may be on hand, and are applicable to a wide range of people.
there were a couple little mistakes in it ^^ before @MattS.
@SabreTooth we'll do our best to make people do so like every other community. If enough understand it (my guess is it'd get featured) they'll close questions which in turn should get others interested enough to read through it
 
am just playing devil's advocate
 
anyway, it's 5am here now so I need to go to sleep, hah. That also means that @J.Musser should be on soon, hahaha
 
Tim
10:44 AM
Hey @Tim, I got pinged for that too!
 
 
2 hours later…
12:22 PM
Here am I.
 
Hi @J.Musser!
 
hey
I see stuff got done.
I also see i was hated on meta. :/
> it is necessary for us to know exactly what solution the person asking the question was looking to use in order to solve the problem, and the reason why they couldn't use that method.
 
that member seems a tad upset
 
used, instead of looking to use?^^
@MattS.
@SabreTooth ohai!
Yeah he did.
 
gday
 
12:28 PM
Or 'tried using'
 
heh, I am almost at 4K on ES
 
> Note that both the [tour][31] and the [help center][32] will need to be updated with this new scope.
^^doesn't really need to be in there.
We could propose the wording somewhere, so a staffer can use it/base off it though.
@SabreTooth I don't.
> He also now has the second highest reputation in the group.
^^from the hate post.
weird. Reputation isnt bad to have...
 
wouldnt worry about it
 
Didn't know anyone was even thinking about me.
but meh, he's off.
 
12:48 PM
I would worry about the site, rather than a single member - greater good kind of thing
 
I'm not too worried about the site at this point - we'll see how it goes.
I'm not much of a worrier.
More of a muser.
 
 
4 hours later…
4:20 PM
J. Musser has been automatically appointed as owner of this room. (What does this mean?)
 
@J.Musser congrats :D
 
4:37 PM
Congrats!
 
@ProgramFOX what are your thoughts on our scope proposal?
 
@ZachSaucier I haven't been participating much, so I actually haven't read it. Going to do that now.
 
6
A: What is a lifehack?

Zach SaucierPulling from Bobo's answer, MattS.'s answer, all of these meta posts, and a long discussion in the chatroom, here's my definition: A lifehack is a technique that can be implemented quickly which is used to make one's physical life more efficient when a more standard approach (as defined by th...

 
Thanks for the link!
+1, nice definition
 
thanks! We've spent a good bit of time discussing it
 
4:54 PM
@J.Musser this would be off topic, correct? Should we address personal health more specifically or is it covered in our definition somewhere?
 
5:05 PM
I guess we could kind of fit it in "not a physical problem"
 
5:25 PM
@J.Musser you convinced me to join Area 51... and I now follow the Atheism proposal
hello everyone!
 
so, how do I keep the flies, poltergeists and rampaging herds of politicians at bay?
there is a very silent kind of party in here at the moment
 
5:54 PM
g'day @MattS.
 
6:33 PM
Hello
Updated I think with everything. I might add some more, but I have to run some errands.
I'll add at the end that for it to work, everyone has to work together and teamwork is key and all that dreamy stuff.
 
@MattS. link 26 is still wrong :P
 
Really? I see it fixed.
 
maybe wrong pastebin link then
 
The discussion about common sense?
 
doesn't look like anything is changed
 
6:35 PM
caching maybe
 
try a new one?
oh, nvm
it's my fault :P
 
Okay, I'll be back later to finish it up.
 
@MattS. Aren't "Questions asking to verify if a lifehack works" yes or no questions? Perhaps combine those paragraphs.
14 hours ago, by Zach Saucier
but I think we need to push that if there is a product like that, a life hacky alternative is required
9 hours ago, by Zach Saucier
you can read the surrounding posts, but essentially this is because the "standard/conventional answer" is unavailable for the quick solution - that's covered in our definition of lifehack
and by "lifehacky alternative" I mean a lifehacky way of creating something similar to the product
 
 
1 hour later…
7:58 PM
he makes a good point
 
8:57 PM
@Zach I am there.
 
hello :)
what's up with the "we all need nice guys - just look at the world from another side" part?
 
@ZachSaucier He mentioned in his about me that he wants his account to be deleted.
I wrote "don't do" it.
 
yes
but that does that have to do with "we all need nice guys - just look at the world from another side" ?
 
Thats because I don't want him to be deleted - there is small activity on life hacks already.
The more active users, the better.
 
xD
I don't know what "we all need nice guys" means in reference to deleting his account
 
9:02 PM
But.... we don't? I consider him to be a "nice guy" because he posted a number of answers on life hacks and have quite a big rep there.
 
that's not made clear
anyway, I think it's a good answer except for that last part
I need to go. Have a good day!
 
I rolled it back, ok.
 
9:29 PM
@ZachSaucier So make it clear that questions asking for alternative solutions are on-topic. As long as they aren't asking for product recommendations?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:57 PM
Back from work - looks like I messed everything. :(
 
11:12 PM
@ZachSaucier Haha! thanks I guess.
 
who's deleting?
 
@ZachSaucier Yes, I think it's a good idea to leave out personal medical questions, they may bring up answers that are poor practice/harmful, and it's better to go without these.
@MattS.^^ What do you think of adding in that?
@SabreTooth Formerly Kevin Johnsrude.
The one who got mad yesterday.
 
ah, that's a shame
 
@SabreTooth Yes.
He had some good hacks.
 
11:28 PM
Most of the new questions have the tried/failed necessary info. A good sign!
@SabreTooth Bahaha!
@MattS. That had more to do with the acceptable scope of answers, not questions.
 
11:58 PM
@MattS. I meant something along the lines of this: lifehacks.stackexchange.com/questions/1531/…
I'd say that his answer is valid, just not much of a lifehack
 
Ah, you're back.
 
if he added a lifehacky way of creating the colander it'd be a great answer
 
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