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12:10 AM
what language should i use for back end processing on my game for my server
i want to use php but im almost sure thats not the best language in the world
 
12:41 AM
@Dave Depends what language you know.
 
php..
 
@Dave: pretty good contender for the worst :)
But of course, if it's what you know, it's ok I suppose
 
i dont think its too difficult tho to learn another language once i learn the syntax of the new language
granted i struggled with c++ thinking about it
 
I would strongly recommend that you don't write a "long-running process" in PHP, it is too crappy with memory-management
 
what would you recommend the contenders are?
 
12:51 AM
It is clearly a matter of opinion, and in particular, experience. I like Python.
I did write an online game with the backend in PHP once
 
well there must be factual benchtests too :P ?
 
But it was not a long-running process, it was a periodic execution script (e.g. like cron)
These things tend to be subjective and can start a flame war very easily
 
yeh its crons i will use heavily (which is alot of looping user's data)
and one particular heavy math calculating
 
Yeah with PHP you have to be careful not to use too much memory
because its garbage-collection is only partially effective
For short-running programs, like most web-pages, this doesn't matter, so people don't notice it much
 
1:06 AM
and now, i need to figure out how to fix the camera to my player
 
ill take a look at python then ?
 
@Dave it is more important to be able to make something that works, than use a "better" programming language
If you've never used Python, do not write a game-server as your "first program" :)
 
well im v.advanced in php
but i worried about memory if i got more n more players =/
 
Sounds like a premature optimisation to me
Honestly, you can worry about memory leaks later, make it work first!
 
im known for my OCD for premature optimisation on this chat room :P
i think thats how im described here
 
1:11 AM
If it is running on a "cron" job, then memory all gets released when the job quits
 
in this case one is based on ajax calls.
for a strong calculation
 
Be aware of concurrency issues
 
its used to validate a path finder for anti cheating
 
Do you actually process the game logic, on the client or server?
Because if it's the client, then anti-cheating is a bit irrelevant
 
what u mean game logic
 
1:19 AM
The part of code which decides "what happens" in your game
What kind of game is it?
 
its a resource collecting type of game (building a town etc)
the client only does graphical out put even if they "alter" how the graphics act it wont change how their resources are gained
cos they can't edit the crons
 
Ok, that makes perfect sense now
 
but if they can alter the path finder it will change the speed of their resource intake
thus i thought it might be wise to put the path finder server side
 
All parts of the game logic need to be server-side
 
yup
and as path finders are quite intensive loops i wondered if php was wise for that particular thing
 
1:23 AM
Does it matter?
 
it will when my server is struggling :P
they cost money to upgrade
 
Do you know how fast modern hardware actually is?
Even PHP code can run pretty fast (provided it does not leak so much memory it is in swap)
 
yeh but how long will it last as user base grows
the longer i can hold off upgrading my server the better :P
 
again premature opt.
"as user base grows" :)
If you make an implementation which works correctly, you can optimise it later, if you need to
Or not, if you don't.
 
true but if switching to python holds off server upgrade il need time to learn the lingo for it
 
1:26 AM
But it increases the time to a working application
and if the rest of your code is PHP, it introduces complexity, which is bad
 
ah
guess php it is :P
 
My conclusion is, based on your circumstances: 1. PHP is a horrible language which sucks in 1000 ways 2. You should just keep using it anyway :)
 
1:42 AM
:(
 
1:53 AM
@Dave, Use C# and Lidgren. 90% of the work done for you, including handling crappy connections.
 
2:03 AM
@Dave, What language are you writing the game in?
 
 
2 hours later…
3:42 AM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager I'm using javascript
for front end
 
:P
 
Well, if your game is slow paced, I don't see why php+sql and javascript couldn't do the trick for you. :)
 
true
just been trying to convert my pathfinder from js to php
thing is i don't know the equivalent for .parent in php
 
4:31 AM
so im trying to figure out how im going to scroll the view to follow the player
hmm
 
5:07 AM
@Dave Im not sure, but it may be base. or the name of parent itself.
 
5:17 AM
@JMRboosties you might want to take a look at a matrix for your camera :o
 
@GustavoMaciel hm
right now im creating a focus rectangle
which is essentially the view of the camera
 
its updates along with the player's movement
 
this one is famous :P
the camera is actually all this
 
hm, interesting
 
5:19 AM
but from a matrix perspective, so it should be better than a rect, imho.
plus you can zoom, translate and rotate
you just translate it to your character pos and it'll be at center
you just need to cap at map boundaries
 
hm...
i'll have to read that
 
you understand matrix math?
 
i understand the concepts never really used it with programming before
how hard can it be, i'll read up on this
 
Well it's really common in 3D programs, but some concepts applies to 2D too(all concepts actually, but they can be made easier without matrices)
@Gajet your game should allow joypads! i have 4 in my house :P, 4 joypads and 1 keyboard is enough for 5 ppl play together on a single comp.
 
5:38 AM
@GustavoMaciel 4 joypads is enough for 9 players!
 
@Gajet haha true!
 
did you find enough people to play that game?
@Dave Yep I do,
 
I didnt ): i have no friends, sad but true
 
then why do you have 4 joysticks?
 
1 very old, 1 usb-ps2 from the playstation 2, and 2 that came with the playstation 3 :P
 
5:46 AM
I've got an idea to improve my maze generation algorithm,
 
really?
 
I'll implement in in near future...
 
but first let me completely explain the current code
 
6:03 AM
gtg @gajet, bye!
 
by
 
good night/morning everyone, im out
 
 
4 hours later…
9:50 AM
Hi
 
 
2 hours later…
11:37 AM
@Kikaimaru your name seems to be Japanese.
きかいまる?
and I'm guessing that means "circle of opportunity"?
 
11:53 AM
@Gajet Why would it mean that? .)
@Gajet I dont know if it means anything but its compound of machine and ninja :)
 
maru means circle
and based on google translate きかい means opportunity(chance)。but google can't translate the whole phrase at once so I guessed the meaning
 
12:11 PM
@Gajet I've got some CSS that hides page titles (not blog post titles) if you are interested
Problem is it does it for all pages so its not a choice. Haven't figured out how we might make it optional yet
 
I don't think I'll be having more than page (at least in near future)
but anyway, for now I'm pleased with how my page looks
 
Great! Glad to hear it :)
 
but I'll start learning CSS and add new features as soon as I get some free time.
 
12:45 PM
6+9999
sorry o.o it was my dog, i swear LOL
 
1:22 PM
@Gajet sounds like he's going for 器械丸 (Machine/Instrument+Maru). Maru(丸) is commonly used with ship names. In the past, maru was used in the days of the samurai (Sengoku and Edo periods) to names of young boys (esp. children of high-ranking samurai or feudal lords) before they reach adulthood. Typically it's mean as a term of endearment... The more you know... ☆
 
1:49 PM
@Krazer Yeah something like that sounds nice :)
Most importnat is, its sounds good, its easy to remember and noone uses it :)
 
2:02 PM
hi
 
When i have 4 directional characters in 2d game, where should they look when going diagonally? (like down left) should he look down or left?
 
@Kikaimaru That depends.
 
On what?
 
On the rest of your game. It's effectively a rhetorical decision. If, for example, your game scrolls more horizontally than vertically, you'd want your characters facing left and right more often than up and down.
 
it could be exactly the left-down block or both left and down blocks
 
2:10 PM
gleed2d and demina seems like a good toolset for XNA 2D gamedev
 
it seems I understand the question a little wrong
 
If, however, you intend to have your character "break the 4th wall" at any point during your game, having them face up and down more often makes sense.
Bottom line: there is no right answer...but there is potentially a wrong answer.
 
hm chrono trigger seems to remember first direction
 
Aye; that's another option
Yet another option is to tailor the effect based on the character's surroundings
 
like mine!
 
2:13 PM
Ultimately, you must decide what effect you're trying to portray for the player.
 
you can also create a new face looking left-down
 
@Gajet That is what I intend to do...if I ever work on my game again
 
2:38 PM
@thelinuxlich I like Gleed2D though it could use a little bit of work. Haven't used Demina - looks cool though.
 
@tylerrrr07 did you tried the latest version from github?
 
Yeah. If you look at some of the issues that have been reported / fixed you'll see I've reported a few and he very promptly fixed them :)
 
3:41 PM
@Gajet!
You iranian you, I need you!
 
Do the rest of you ever get an urge to answer a title, disregarding what the question actually says?
4
3
Q: What is the technical term for animation of a dead body?

JeffreyIn some 3D games when a 3D model of a person is shot to death (or suddenly dead) his body falls to the ground and every limb, the head and the body move free. What is this particular way of handling dead bodies called? Is it possible with UDK? If you didn't understand, I meant like in this video...

 
sup
 
4:45 PM
Hi there
 
5:01 PM
@WilliamMindWorXMariager now I'm here
still testing network connection?
@everyone am I asking too much?
2
Q: Looking for a data container with O(1) indexing and O(log(n)) insertion and deletion

GajetI'm not sure if it's possible but it seems a little bit reasonable to me, I'm looking for a data structure which allows me to do these operations: insert an item with O(log n) remove an item with O(log n) find/edit the k'th-smallest element in O(1), for arbitrary k (O(1) indexing) of course e...

 
O(1) indexing: Hashtable. Depending on the implementation, I'm sure you'd get O(log n) insertion/deletion as well
 
O(1) indexing means I can get k'th value in O(1)
 
a Bag?
 
hah?
bbl 30min
 
5:20 PM
@Gajet yes you are probably asking too much
finding the k'th smallest element in O(1) sounds iffy unless it's a sorted indexed array, which is going to take > O(log n) to insert into
 
5:32 PM
@Gajet @MarkR yeah, my first thought was "sounds like you need to invent a new sort algorithm." :)
 
@stephelton of course I was looking for a new algorithm.
if someone already created such an algorithm I could create it too!
@MarkR insertion is not really a problem, since as I stated in question every new element I put is always greater than all previous elements. it's deletion that makes it hard.
 
6:01 PM
again bb 30'
 
evening
 
seems I'm stuck here for a little more
@dave you wanted to talk to me last night
 
hey gajet - it turns out that path finder i have to do server side
 
then what's the problem?
 
well im converting it to PHP :P so i might need some help if i get stuck
at the moment its okay :)
 
6:04 PM
why don't you use node.js?
 
im a noob when it comes to servers :P so i didn't get how to install it on my server =/
 
noob!
 
unless i can find some one to use team viewer to show me or something
 
it shouldn't be that hard
 
i knowww i am a noob when it comes to servers! :P
 
6:05 PM
<3 TeamViewer
 
@Gajet You'd get O(n) deletes. You can think long and hard about some of these problems, but your O(1) requirement makes it easy, only an array can do that. And since a delete would change the index of every following element they will all have to be moved.
 
@tylerrrr07 seems to be an expert
 
yeh team viewer is awesome
 
I've never set up node.js before though
I'm a Windows server semi-expert
Anything that pertains to SharePoint at least lol
So that limits it a bit...
@Dave Linux or Windows server? and do you have full admin / RDP access?
 
linux VPS
 
6:07 PM
@tylerrrr07 I presume you've seen terminal? and had a little fun with it
 
which i think means i have full admin
 
I have set up Node.js, both on Windows and Linux, it was pretty easy.
 
@eBusiness any chance u can show me how on team viewer?
 
can't wait for The Binding of Isaac expansion
 
Oooo. I was going to point you to howtonode.org/how-to-install-nodejs but eBusiness probably knows best :)
@thelinuxlich I never bought that game. I take it its fantastic?
 
6:08 PM
@eBusiness the more I think about it, the more I'm being sure I can use something like tiered vector to do my job
 
temple run is a great game on android
 
@tylerrrr07 one of the best game designs of 2011 xD
 
@thelinuxlich I couldn't even beat the first boss
 
@Dave Then I'd first have to figure Team viewer. What distro do you use?
 
@thelinuxlich OH SNAP
 
6:09 PM
distro ?
 
@Gajet I have almost all achievements
 
Guess I'll have to buy it now
I kind of wish it were on Xbox
 
team viewer is remote assistance its free program its very simple :)
 
@thelinuxlich I guess I don't have the potential to play that kinda games
 
I'm looking for more reasons to get out of my office, even if it is just to the couch on the Xbox.
 
6:10 PM
they tried to sell it on DS, but apparently Nintendo forbids fetus mixed with poop, blood and satan
 
@tylerrrr07 porn is a good reason
 
@Dave Linux distribution, you know, the operating system is called something more than Linux
 
@eBusiness ill check now brb
 
@eBusiness +1
 
@eBusiness eukhost.com/vps-hosting.php this is the one i have lowest package
 
6:11 PM
now I actually am going bb30'
 
bye @gajet :)
im guna guess its virtuozzo
but ive no idea :P
 
@Dave @eBusiness Looks like either CentOS 64 bit or Ubuntu 64bit if you go to the order page
 
oh
hang on then ill check my order
 
@tylerrrr07 @Dave And CentOS is the default, so unless you changed it at order that is probably what you have.
 
yeh i think it is centos
all it says in cpanel is Operating system linux
 
6:17 PM
@Dave Ok, I guess that is what in the guide is named "RHEL and friends" github.com/joyent/node/wiki/…
 
what is this ?
 
Friends like Centos, scientific linux etc
 
what are these codes =/
 
@Dave Linux commands, I'm no expert, but basically they ask the installer to install Node. Open a console, paste 'em in and see what happens.
 
if i know how to find console =/
 
6:22 PM
@Dave I don't know where they have put it on Cent
 
all i know to use is the ftp for uploading a script
 
@Dave You haven't established normal remote control then?
 
i don't the terminology =/
i just use my sftp to upload scripts
 
If you have VPS hosting you should be able to remote into the system and access everything as if it were your own computer
 
yeh but not a clue what program i need etc
i use WinSCP
 
6:25 PM
I've never remoted into a Linux server so I'll have to defer to someone else, or google.
 
@Dave You might be better off reading on your hosting providers FAQ, support forum or similar. I don't know what setup they used, but I presume they have a pretty easy guide to using it.
 
ill try ask if they can install it for me
 
@Dave Better find out how you get proper access to that server, you can't really work with Node without being able to run commands on your own.
 
well once its running its all good :P
 
6:41 PM
@Dave It doesn't work like PHP/Apache, Node needs to run a custom program just to accept requests. Realistically you want to change that program pretty often, that requires a restart, and you can't do that over ftp.
 
why would it need restart all the time
 
@WilliamMindWorXMariager I'm assuming you own either a vps or dedicated server. either way I'm going to ask you for a permission to test my game server in a month or two
 
ill test it my server is not being put to much use
unless u need a specific setup in which case ive no idea
 
@Dave Whenever you change something, you'd need to restart it. Sure, you can make a more complicated setup that changes itself as needed. But as a beginner you probably want to save that for later. What is the IP of your server?
 
i doubt ill change it once its working :P
the ip is..
 
6:51 PM
@Dave I'm not sure what virtuozzo mean but I just went and took a bath, and not something like a long bath!
 
a bath ...
isn't that what girls do :P
 
Then visit 213.175.192.158:4643
 
duration not important ;)
@eBusiness what is that =/
 
@eBusiness ssl error!
 
@Dave Your Virtuozzo Power Panel, that should work for most server jobs.
 
6:54 PM
@dave do you know who ranma was? i'm talking about "ranma 1/2"
 
nope ?
@eBusiness should i really not be touching that
 
then watch the anime. it's not really important if you watch the whole thing but I only want you to get the idea!
one or two episodes are more than enough
 
i read the wiki
he cursed into a girl with cold water lol
 
@Dave You should ignore the warning and continue
 
i dunno the login @eBusiness
 
6:55 PM
@eBusiness I thought his site was powered by cPanel...
 
@Dave It should be admin, and your password
 
my WHM password? or cpanel
 
@eBusiness are you doing anything using teamveiwer? or any other desktop sharing?
 
no were not using that gajet
 
@Gajet cPanel is for shared webhosts, this thing allows you full control.
 
6:58 PM
so whats WHM ?
 
@Gajet Nope, I'm just reading on the internet.
@Dave Your root password, all I did was find this guide and forward the information: kb.eukhost.com/what-is-virtuozzo-power-panel
 
ah root
ok im in :D
 
@Dave Sorry, my mistake, account was root not admin.
 
yeh lol
i think im in a console
i just opened a java window its all black
tho it wont connect
 
@Dave I can't help you much further, no idea how that power panel works. Though it seems likely that it might take some time to load.
 
7:04 PM
:(
my host can install node.js for me
so ill let them do it :P they know what their doing after all
 
@Dave Really, I don't believe you'll get anything out of Node without that access sorted.
 
Could just go back to using PHP =/
 
use vert.x
 
@tylerrrr07 Sure, but we are talking about a game server right?
 
what do you mean by access?
 
7:08 PM
@Dave Access to your system. So you can install programs, start and stop them etc.
 
i can always ask my host to explain how i do that
once they install it
 
I guess that works
They'll probably point you to some documentation they already have out there :P
 
true
 
In any case, the point of a VPS is kinda lost if you don't know how to administer it yourself.
 
7:10 PM
@eBusiness my thoughts exactly on both points.
I wish Windows VPS wasn't so expensive
 
theres not much to administer tho =/ ive only ever used it for basic web hosting until recently
 
Hi there. I'm a university student and I'd like to apply for a summer job at a game development studio.
 
awesome news
 
Any advice on what I should focus on in my CV?
 
Do it!
What area of game development are you interested in?
 
7:13 PM
Personal projects should me the first one, I guess.
@tylerrrr07 Programming.
 
@PaulManta have you made any games ? if so show them - thatll do better than a CV
 
I'll most likely be put into gameply programming.
 
Cool. If you can, focus on game related programming projects you have done. Also include anything where you had to work in a team
 
@Dave One small game in the past, and I have an ongoing project right now.
 
@Dave If you dare you can mail me your password and I'll log in and see if can make heads and tails of the panel.
 
7:15 PM
If you have a web site that can present those games in some manner (Screen shots, design, source code if available) they would really appreciate that I think
 
@eBusiness just use team viewer with me u can see my screen live
 
Otherwise Send the game stuffs along in the email or on a disk if you are mailing your app
 
@JoshPetrie Interesting. Thanks!
 
@Dave Ok, mail me a login to that. ebusinessjma@gmail.com
 
7:16 PM
okay
 
@tylerrrr07 I don't have a website, however my first project (the small game I mentioned) I published through a forum.
It was fairly well received. It was entirely modifiable through a simplistic scripting language and was translated into a few other languages by the other forum members.
The game was fairly short, so the translation wasn't that much of an effort.
However, the game is no technical feat. I was in highschool at the time (I'm a freshman now), and it was a text-based adventure. The only "special" thing it had about it was that I added ASCII art animations into the turn-based battles in the game.
 
Sweet. Thats good news. So the hope is that it can be well received by the game studio as well. I personally would try to get something together where they can easily view the game you made.
 
i read something a while ago, i think on GD:SE, that compared the perception of framerate between film and game. it pointed out that recorded film frames include motion blur that help the brain fill in the gaps
anyone know what i'm talking about?
 
user4704
Yea, but I don't recall a specific article
 
@tylerrrr07 Well, on the forum there's a download link to the game (executable game scripts) and one to the source. What more should I add?
And also a PDF manual on how to use the scripting language.
 
7:21 PM
@JoshPetrie any ideas on a good search term? anything about framerate tends to have a very bad SNR
 
If you think the forum is presentable enough to submit to an employer feel free to use that. I honestly don't know how it would be perceived by someone in the industry
It honestly might be good enough
So on your CV you could include that project in your experience, provide a short description and a link to the forum
 
@tylerrrr07 Here's the forum thread: forum.worldofplayers.de/forum/threads/614233
@tylerrrr07 Should I mention the current project as well? Currently it's in the very very early stage of development so all I'll have to say about it is engine related stuff.
 
I would. To me any relevant experience would be nice. If you had nothing to discuss at all then maybe not but even engine related stuff is relevant
I like the forum post but I'm not an employer so I'm not the best to judge
 
Okay, thanks for the help! :)
So the first thing to focus on is personal projects. The second, the programming languages I know?
If yes, should I go into details such as idiomatic programming, familiarity with popular libraries for that language (Boost for C++, for example).
 
7:41 PM
Ah, and another thing. That memo Josh linked (arena.net/pdf/Open_Letter_To_Intern_Candidates.pdf) says you should mention any game-related experience, including articles you've written.
I'm the main contributor to two game related article on Wikipedia (the articles have received the Good Article status, which one of the highest on Wikipedia). Should I mention these as well? The articles are both Half-Life related: Concerned (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concerned) and Codename: Gordon (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codename:_Gordon).
 
user4704
Those don't seem relevant. I would not include them.
 
@PaulManta I loved the game, but it was no more than 5min game
actually it's a little tempting to download and play the original game
 
@Gajet The reason I was asking is because that memo recommends you to show you are passionate about games. Should I mentioned I wrote those articles?
 
yeah, I also think should bring every thing you did in your CV.
but don't flood it with thing like "I wrote nibbles once" if you have better things to talk about.
 
@Gajet Including my activity on StackOverflow and GameDev.StackExchange?
I'd put those nearer to the bottom, anyway.
 
7:48 PM
that seems to also be good, specially if you increase your reputation.
 
I guess SO is a pretty reputable forum among developers, right?
@Gajet I only have about 1000 on GD, but I have 5000 on SO and I'm among the top 7% overall, so that should count for something.
 
I've got a friends who applied mostly because of his reputation in SOF.
 
There's no way I'm getting that much reputation in a few weeks though. :P
 
but his reputation is a little too high! if I remember correctly he was number 8 when he applied!
@JoshPetrie that message was really helpful,
expect I didn't publish any of my projects anywhere, no github, no sourceforge, not even web pages. what do you think about the guys like me?
 
@JoshPetrie The Wkipedia articles? I only just though of adding them because the memo you gave suggests you mention articles you've written. :)
 
7:55 PM
doing projects just to have some fun and later bury them beneath lots of other projects?
 
Ah, actually, the studio asks for good English skills. I have an A in a Cambridge Advanced English exam, but would showing some actual articles be better (or mentioning both the exam and the articles)?
 
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