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20:00
`"Thredis is Redis + SQL + Threads. Or perhaps it's pure lunacy
resulting from some mad winter hacking mixed with eggnog. Or perhaps
it's the first hybrid SQL/NoSQL server. You be the judge."`
@Phil ya, this was just a insert into tablea@remote select * from tablea
just an easy way to move data from one to the other
I love their theme
20:16
@Phil So human life expectancy has gone from our hearts beating less often lol
Wat? http://t.co/jC4TWRqz
20:32
looks like @bluefeet spends a lot of her (if I remember correctly) day fixing stackoverflow.com/users/2001199/andrew 's code
@DTest it was me because of lacking reading abilities and don't know whether I can revoke that vote
@dezso what sort of vote?
@jcolebrand close vote
So two other technical interviewers rated this guys tech ability well above average
@rfusca And your opinion was..?
20:43
@dezso then don't worry about that too much
@rfusca but did they say he was likely to be a good fit for the team?
@Lamak low
Holy carp! Latest CU of SQL Server 2012 supports direct native backup to Azure. That's awesome!
@jcolebrand yeah they disappear after a while...just wanted to know why, and now I do :)
So my first question was basically: imagine a table of : tableA (createDate date, somefield text) and I was like "Just give me all the records (don't bust a nut if I should use 'rows' there ;) ) that were created in the last 7 days "
@jcolebrand Do you use synergy on your mac?
20:46
and that failed miserably
@DTest no. I only really use one machine all the time (I know, that's a terrible practice, what happens in the case of damage/loss, etc. Don't remind me, please)
haha, i was just wondering since you mentioned it earlier
having trouble mapping my 'opt' key (server is running on windows)...I managed to redirect the alt key correctly, but not so much the opt key :/
@rfusca doesn't seem like a trick question
@Lamak its most definitely not
its the "can you write a really simple SELECT statement" so that I can justify going further in the interview question
@rfusca Did he even know what SYSDATE was?
20:48
@Phil nope
No point hiring to work in an Oracle shop then
@Phil yup, that was my take
my boss just let me know that somebody else gave a 'thumbs down' - so at least now I don't have to feel bad that it was 'just me'
@Phil you should've given him another chance. Did you ask for the rows that were created on the last 6 days?
20:50
@jcolebrand going to poke around their site first
@rfusca what were you expecting him to return. select somefield, Createdate from whereverthehell order by create date. or was he suppose to make up some rows?
@Zane I gave some sample data
I would have been fine with select * from tableA where createdate >= sysdate -7 or any reason attempt at it
@DTest ahem ;-)
21:08
Oh dear:
nice
21:35
I missed your 7 days portion.
@rfusca curse my short attention span.
Wind-up or PHP monkey?
0
Q: What exactly do database passwords protect?

TheBajI would like to know what exactly I am password protecting on my server when I set a database password. I am unclear as to what people are referring to when saying to password protect a database. Are they referring to a single specific database or do they mean the complete mysql database structur...

@MarkStorey-Smith Send me your password and I'll tell you what you're protecting
3
at least that's what I'd want to respond
@billinkc Genius, please do :)
Not likely to get by our beloved mods as an answer but its a storming comment
21:51
what?
-2
Q: T-SQL SELECT IN WITH ITEM LIST CONTAINING DUPLICATES

user1892534I'm doing SELECT Name WHERE Id IN (3,4,5,3,7,8,9) where in this case the '3' Id is duplicated. The query automatically excludes the duplicated items while for me would be important to get them all. Is there a way to do that directly in SQL? thanks a lot

@bluefeet This is why I only visit SO when your goodself and Aaron post comedy SO questions in here :)
@MarkStorey-Smith because we find the best questions
@bluefeet Literally the comedy gold
like this one
0
Q: What does url/test/$&-_~#%\@^*()=!()][`'?#+π§½Жש?dummy=&param=$&-_~#%\@^*()=!()][`';:|".{},<>?#+π§½Жש mean?

RenanTwice this code showed up in my Google Analytics report. I don't have a subdomain /url or /test anywhere in my directories. This site has less than 3 months old and that's about it. I have no idea what it could possibly mean but it showed up in the main directory and a subdirectory.

what does hfkshdfkshdfiuhfrfhkfhskdfhsdhf mean?
@bluefeet !"£$ing 'ell
One does wonder how these people manage to start their computers without electrocuting themselves
21:57
@MarkStorey-Smith One also wonders when the hell they'll get on with it and electrocute themselves already.
3
@MikeFal Good point, well made :)
I'm a DBA, I'm all about providing helpful solutions.
just for you @MarkStorey-Smith
-2
Q: How to get value from a table base on "Prefrence"

Ashish GinotraIts a very difficult task for me to get a value from a table based on "Preference". Plz help me... I have a table "t1" including two columns "id" and "alphabet" having values "1","1","2","3","3" and "A","B","A","A","B" respectfully(It means every id has alphabet "A" by default and some also has "...

my eyes ... they bleed
They told me 64gb of ram aught to be enough for anyone :(
@DTest >.< someone should edit that post.
22:09
@bluefeet I love that he's upset that there is no comments yet.
I felt a great disturbance, as if all the ESL teachers in the world cried out at once...
Haha
I think I am too nice
@AshishGinotra actually no, your question is not very clear. Please edit your post with additional details like table structure, sample data and desired result. — bluefeet 15 secs ago
NoSQL meeting is one monday...Need as much ammo as possible I'm omw home to find it.
wow
-1
A: Can you sell apps as a Google Developer or must you be a Merchant?

user2009185I will open merchant account for you. for a small partnership fee. USA.. [email protected]

22:18
haha
flagged it as spam
@bluefeet I envy your patience. Patience is a character trait I spend from a very limited budget.
@MarkStorey-Smith it's called I am home sick from work and am bored since there are no good questions to answer
@bluefeet You need either a) more interesting work or b) less interesting home to miss :)
I'm on travels this week and primarily treating it as an excuse to crunch 16 hour days
Apparently my Oracle client install was screwed up all by itself.
22:33
nice
HEY JUST TELL ME ONE THING .... HOW TO USE IF EXIST IN QUERY — Ashish Ginotra 3 mins ago
@bluefeet DO NOT TAUNT HAPPY FUN BALL
@AaronBertrand wow they marked mine as helpful
@bluefeet did you flag the question or an answer? I flagged the question.
@AaronBertrand I flagged the answer as spam
22:37
Ah
I think the question should be closed, but that's just me.
Do declined flags count against us anymore? I know there used to be some flag weight but it was abolished, yes?
@MarkStorey-Smith I seriously theought that was a wind-up
I am not sure if declined flags count against us. Maybe behind the scenes they do.
@Phil Someone even took the time to answer. I felt compelled to upvote them as a mark or respect.
@bluefeet Depends if 404s show up in Google Analytics logs... If they do, there could be any shit in there!
@bluefeet Same, flagged it as spam and it was marked helpful
22:45
Apparently you can't do anything to prevent a carriage return from being entered into a column.
No. It's a valid character. Nothing to prevent it from being added. You could scrub it yourself. But I would do that as a one-time thing. After that, you should be much more focused on making sure only good data makes it to your DB. It's the only choice if you want to keep your DB running effectively. — Eli Gassert 1 hour ago
22:56
@AaronBertrand afaik they don't count against you. They work to "raise or lower your flags in the flag queue for moderator visibility"
@AaronBertrand The sad part is this is an app concern at the end of the day, not a db concern
@jcolebrand I disagree. The DBA's job is to protect the data, not the app.
You prevent the garbage from getting in. Then you fix the app(s) (and get a ruler for the wrists of the people running ad hoc junk).
But data entry is the responsibility of the app. The database should hold the data without losing it, not worry about the format of what the actual stored data is.
How do you know what's junk in a given field?
Had someone said to you "oh noes, there's \r and \n in the fields" what would be your first thought?
@jcolebrand I think you will find varying opinions on that.
mine would be "Why didn't you say that when we developed the database?"
Just like business logic always belongs in the stored procedures, never belongs in the stored procedures, and everything in between.
23:04
how the hell did I manage to repeat "is the responsibility" ...
It sounds like bad requirements bit someone in the ass
Think about a database that has multiple applications. What is the quickest way to prevent a piece of junk - let's say that has already been identified as junk by business requirements - from getting into the database? It certainly isn't to go recompile all of the apps and have a conversation with every single person having the ability to run an ad hoc query. So, no, sorry, I don't believe this is an application concern.
The database shouldn't give a crap unless it is expected to do validation (via triggers/constraints) or it itself is responsible for processing said data. Every app<>DB interaction is dofferent. Sometimes the DB is purely a store, so it's "garbage in, garbage out". Other times (DWH in lots of cases) the DB is repsonsible for ETL and will check the data etc, as it has to do lots of validation and processing
@Phil sure, but this given example doesn't seem to have anything to do with a data warehouse. Just someone can't use a search field as expected.
Indeed
If I were really paranoid about the searches I would setup some sort of full catalog search mechanism anyways (is that the right name?)
@AaronBertrand ok, fair point for "well, we fecked it all to hell and back, and we need a fast solution" but I've never had a case where I didn't question what was valid input ...
23:08
@jcolebrand you are not 90% of the app developers / data stewards in the world.
If the database knows it's junk it shouldn't let it in. It all depends on whether this is something the database is going to be responsible for. It also depends on your surface area - if the database is, for example, also responsible for generating a CSV file of this data on a daily basis to a partner with an SSIS package, then it needs to be able to know how to handle line breaks. It will have a hard time being dumb storage AND providing the data in a particular format as one of its services
@AaronBertrand true. I'm just trying to be a better developer every day when I can.
At my previous job I was responsible for the database. I did not have control over the apps. So for me to protect the database from junk that was required to be kept out of the database, I protected the database.
Then I didn't really care how messed up the apps were, it was someone else's job to fix them, and I wouldn't have to play clean-up.
Also, the example does not mention WHY SSMS has chosen a particularly infuriating path on this. It shows it as a space to avoid truncating things or making "rows" in the grid multi-line (understandable to avoid those things). However it can be misleading/confusing. I think it would be better to show it with a special glyph for those non-space whitespace characters.
I'm curious, as a SQL Server developer, is there much potential to contribute to any open source projects?
23:10
@AaronBertrand but how do you proactively determine what's junk?
@EugeneM yes
drivers drivers drivers
@jcolebrand Constrain early and often.
Every single platform needs reliable db drivers, for every language. OSX drivers, Windows drivers, bindings for PHP, bindings for C, bindings for nodejs
@jcolebrand I don't think there is a magic one-line formula for that. If the business determines they don't want to let a user save a password with 3 repeated characters, that becomes part of what I validate.
Go find a driver and see how you can pitch in (see github) or go find a platform that doesn't seem to have a driver and see what similar drivers do.
@jcolebrand interesting
23:12
@AaronBertrand point being: you couldn't have ever dreamt that this particular field didn't need \r or \n inline in it until someone came up with a business rule here.
I ask those questions. I realize that makes me special, but so be it.
Also remember that unless you're using this EF Code First nonsense, you design the database first. Do you really want to defer any and all constraints until the applications have been written?
I just don't believe that we should ask the database devs to enforce those constraints
@jcolebrand plenty of business rules are added after the fact because they were unforeseen. We're not all perfect.
I mean, yes, the db should constrain it
but I shouldn't be relying on the db
@AaronBertrand well sure, I accept that.
@jcolebrand the db is your single point of failure for all of its consumers. You better be able to rely on the db.
23:13
If you want to see code I've written with bugs in it let me pull up this bug ticket that got opened today about IE8 untested code
@AaronBertrand wait, you flipped my points
You leave the database unconstrained and rely on the apps, you are fucked.
I should do validation before the database.
I shouldn't let the only validation be at the database
@jcolebrand but again, you can't. How do you add validation to Billy Bob's query in Management Studio?
What about LINQ and all this crap that generates queries for you?
@AaronBertrand oh screw those. I despise them.
Sometimes you only have the database to protect you.
23:15
We currently use NHibernate and I shudder, every time.
@jcolebrand well, they are getting more and more popular, so you can't just shove your head in the sand and only worry about the apps where you can enforce full validation.
@AaronBertrand I know. It pains me.
@EugeneM seriously, thought everyone knew this ...
@jcolebrand In this particular case, Aaron's answer is the typical process anyway - you discover something, you fix it and you see if you can prevent it. The DBA or database developer has to fix the data in situ AND determine how it should be handled in the future. The choice to constrain the database or the app may not work in the database, but this one is relatively easy to fix with a CHECK constraint.
db drivers normally suck for everything but C# and Java for Oracle and MS SQL
I mean, the open source guys are doing a pretty good job on stuff like couch and mongo, but even those routinely have issues.
@CadeRoux What if the app doesn't catch the constraint the DB throws?
23:16
You design the database so that it will handle all the crap that comes its way from all this junk they keep pushing out there. I laugh at all the questions along the lines of "how do I do this thing in EF that is so simple in T-SQL" and the answer is typically "you can't, you'll have to wait for them to add that functionality"...
Just saying :P
@jcolebrand Well, more interesting that I could make the jump to that. Drivers seem pretty low level.
So it wasn't something I had considered
Anyway, as an aside:
@EugeneM oh, sure you could. Mostly you're providing bindings and writing a translator.
0
Q: Chat and the SE toolbar

PhilI quite often spend plenty of time in chat without ever navigating back to DBA.se. Is there any way of making the Stack Exchange toolbar (as it appears on DBA.se) appear at the top of the chat page so that I can see notifications, rep changes etc?

23:17
@Phil that's the app developer's problem, not mine. If the app developer is aware of the business rule, then they should also be updating the app to validate it.
@Phil this has been long asked for. It isn't going to happen anytime soon.
There is a userscript I believe that adds that functionality in. It's why I pinned the site url in the room info top right. I use that link probably a dozen times a day.
@AaronBertrand this is all I'm saying. And the only way to do that is to be a good developer.
@Phil A possibility. But at least your perimeter is secure. Your database is guaranteeing its higher-level integrity. I'm not saying it started out that way with that constraint, but once it was decided that that data should be handled differently, handling it in the database is not necessarily wrong. This particular Q on SO is a good case.
@jcolebrand right, but you're suggesting that as long as the app validates it, you don't have to validate in the database? Sorry, but that is like going to Tijuana without condoms.
@AaronBertrand no no no no no
@Phil If it can't handle it, you can always put the constraint on once it can - obviously, like anything, you might have to coordinate client and server code releases.
23:19
I said you flipped my points on that particular concern
I should proactively validate before the db. But once it's a known business concern, it should be transmitted to every part of the app equally.
So how should I interpret "This is a business rule, not necessarily a database problem. While it presents a general problem today you really should consider if this needs to be done closer to the UI and not rely on the database for this sort of validation."
Like with forms on javascript: We do client-side validation, then we do server-side validation.
That sounds to me like: "validate in the app and you won't have to validate in the database." And that, to me, sounds stupid. Sorry.
@AaronBertrand don't rely on the database. Yes, enforce those constraints in the database, but if they had this flub, they probably don't even know how to put the constraint on the table.
proactive, not reactive.
@jcolebrand that's not how the public comment reads at all. It reads like you are arguing against any validation in the database.
23:22
@jcolebrand This is a problem which needs to be made easier to handle. The database needs to protect its perimeter no matter what. The user needs responsive feedback. There is currently no general way of making a good easy conduit between those two things. But relaxing the database is NOT a solution because nobody will trust the database if it doesn't make useful promises. And it needs to keep the promises it makes.
I've only ever seen those constraints be handled as Exceptions, and handling logic flow by Exceptions is a bad idea.
@jcolebrand and of course they don't know how to put the constraint on the table. That's why they're on the site asking, and why they had the problem in the first place. And so we tell them, constrain your table, and validate in the app. My point is that you can always do the former, you can't always do the latter (since not all DML statements come in through an app).
There's no point arguing about it. Each company has a different set of apps and databases that interface in different ways. Nobody can be correct!
@jcolebrand that's silly. The database layer can also check (instead of raising an exception) even while the app remains unchanged.
@Phil no, but what I'm saying is I agree with Aaron, I feel like he's just upset about what is inferred by my comment that I didn't remove and replace with new text.
@AaronBertrand hence "I've only ever seen"
I would also argue I've never worked with more than two gifted db devs
23:23
@jcolebrand I'm not upset. I just don't agree one bit with the comment as written.
fair enough
@jcolebrand ah, so you don't trust DBAs because you don't know any good ones?
@AaronBertrand nonsense
@jcolebrand don't fault the database layer for personnel problems. :-)
Why do you think I'm a moderator on dba.se? You guys are the bees knees when it comes to data storage
@AaronBertrand THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS
That's what kicked this off.
The db did the "right thing"
The devs screwed up
The database was inherently faithful to the data that was given to it, and did the right thing
And that's what databases must do, and that makes me happy and warm and fuzzy
23:25
Ah, Parallels can't do shared disk devices. Bollocks
@jcolebrand Exactly. This idea of conduits of logic is not well-handled with exceptions. There needs to be a better way to reduce duplication, while still allowing the database to protect its perimeter to keep making useful promises.
Nobody is saying the database was wrong to take the garbage data. But once garbage data is identified, and that it shouldn't be in the database, the database can be updated to no longer accept such garbage. And that should be done no matter how many of the apps are immediately updated to validate.
@AaronBertrand sure, I don't disagree.
@Phil is that where you boot from the host OS or a VM using a physical disk partition?
@jcolebrand But now the right thing is different, and the expectations are that such a scenario needs to be avoided and the database can have a useful place to play in making that change (in some architectures).
@CadeRoux but then people rely on that as a crutch (I've seen it happen a half dozen times over two employers, at least, which means it happens more)
23:29
@jcolebrand No, it's where a virtual disk can be mounted read/write by more than one guest simultaneously. Need it to do an Oracle RAC install. VirtualBox supports shared disks
@jcolebrand so what? If the app raises exceptions and enough people complain, it will get fixed. Having experience with lazy developers does not mean you must abandon database validation and force the developers to implement it in the app. I'm not following your logic at all.
@Phil do you happen to know the name of the thing I'm asking about?
@AaronBertrand I'm not against database validation. I think that's just as important as server-side validation, which is just as important as client-side validation. Validate early and often.
I'm against lazy code and bad requirements gathering.
@jcolebrand natively it's bootcamp. Parallels has an option to boot your bootcamp/windows partition in a VM
@Phil So when I get my SSD if I install my Windows VMs with BootCamp and Parallels I should be able to run the same VM in either a VM or native? (in theory) or do you have any experience with that?
@jcolebrand I've only ever repartitioned the primary disk and booted natively into windows on that
This machine is a hackintosh and has 3 OSes on it (3 SSDs, 3 spinny disks) :D
(Did the Bootcamp thing on my iMac though, I must add)
23:35
@jcolebrand Well, sometimes you only need it in the database. Just let the app handle it as an exception unless it's something which the app is being asked to try all the time by users. You can't anticipate everything and some things are not worth the UX effort doing anything but a quick constraint by the database.
@jcolebrand I tend to see a lot of the multi-modal database access from various apps and reporting and import/export and I subscribe to the strong perimeter and database service provider mentality
@jcolebrand i'd attempt some greasemonkey antics, but my web-fu is crap. Do wonder if an age-old <IFRAME> Would suffice ;)
@Phil I believe the issue is there is no API call.
I encourage you to look on StackApps.com and see what shows up
stackexchange.com/filters/75595/sql-server-questions @AaronBertrand I only added three tags to this, not many, as the workflow takes some time. But this may interest you. (It's how the community team follow posts on all the metas easily)
55
Q: SENotifier, a Stack Exchange inbox notifier for Mac OS X

Greg Hewgill Screenshot Updates Version 1.1 Added support for Notification Center (10.8 and later) Adjusted menu icon to align better with existing menu items Auto-update is now supported via Sparkle Version 1.0 Option to automatically start at login Login token now requested with no_expiry (yo...

Looks awesome
@Phil lemme know how that works, I may need it too >.>
@jcolebrand both parallels and fusion can treat a bootcamp partition as a VM. But there are a bunch of known limitations.
Gotta go eat n stuff
23:50
this is an ugly pivot
0
Q: Slow Query- pivoting causes the issue

LockI have a query that takes around 4 minutes to run and really need to improve on this. I'm basically pivoting the data into columns. Any idea how I can improve this query? I am mostly joining on indexes. It is the aggregates that is causing the issues Are there better ways of pivoting the data ...

@Phil you did see the link I posted just above your OSX notifier, right, that lets you do network-wide feeds?
@jcolebrand Yup
@jcolebrand replied to you on meta

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