The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®

John K. N.

06:43

Morning

Vérace

A chairde - Morning all!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

09:04

morning

Paul White

morning

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace I hope you are not offended if I put a Russian flag ;)

Paul White

I was thinking of changing to a China flag

Just for balance

ypercubeᵀᴹ

09:28

nice. we'll have all our asses covered

Paul White

I don't suppose which team we pick will matter much soon, unless the 'leaders' of the world somehow manage to stop acting like children

Vérace

@ypercubeᵀᴹ FIne, if you're comfortable supporting autocratic, dictatorial and brutally violent regimes. The Ukrainians aren't exactly lily-white in all of this - see this page about the official treatment of the Russian language in the Ukraine recently. It is these moves which have allowed Putin to portray the Ukrainians as Nazis.

However, I think that the reaction is totally disproportionate. It would appear that many of those fighting against the Russians are themselves Russophone.

Any news of AndriyM these days?

Paul White

@Vérace Heard from him within the past 24h

Vérace

Pers. comm.? I noticed that he'd been online recently. He's my long-lost adopted brother - (silly thread from ~ 1 year ago...) :-)

Paul White

09:43

topanswers.xyz/databases?room=2

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace so you are not ok with it. I see.

Vérace

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Not OK with what? Russian warmongers? Ukrainian treatment of Russian speakers?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

the title underneath is roughly translated to "Comic Map of European Intelligence"

Vérace

I'm OK with neither - but if the Ukraine wanted to join the EU, they'd have to up their game re. treatment of linguistic minorities. Also, there's the question of proportionality!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace ok with me putting a flag

Vérace

09:49

Was there a part of the word "Fine" you didn't understand? :-)

ypercubeᵀᴹ

the answer was not "Fine"

it was "Fine, if you're comfortable supporting autocratic, dictatorial and brutally violent regimes."

that's passive-aggresive of saying "not fine"

Vérace

Insisting that publications be published in both Ukrainian and Russion and shelling and bombing civililan areas are not the same thing!

nytimes.com/2022/03/06/world/europe/…

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10583655/…

McNets

Morning

@ypercubeᵀᴹ hi, where do you get this map? It seems we (catalans) are represented there

Vérace

Well, I'm just making my opinion clear - minor administrative obstacles for Russophones does not justify that dead family in the first link nor the dead child in the second!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@McNets saw it in a facebook post.

intrigued that the title was in Greek

it might be old

McNets

09:54

@ypercubeᵀᴹ yep, it seems old

Vérace

What does Neos Aristophane mean?

Paul White

The Ukraine situation is certainly a lot more complex than most (western) media would have us believe. As far as I can tell, it's practically two separate countries, given their differences.

Vérace

Excuse any transliteration errors!

Paul White

A lot of people seem to think Ukrainians started dying in the past 2 weeks, for example

ypercubeᵀᴹ

a lot of people also think that US and UK and all the western governments actually care about Ukranians

Paul White

09:56

@ypercubeᵀᴹ ha ha --- no

Vérace

Yep - they've been fighting since 2014! One of those "forgotten" wars! However, a full scale invasion ups the ante considerably!

Paul White

@Vérace I dunno decapitated mass graves is p high up the list I'd say

Vérace

Some people think that the US and UK actually care about democracy! What a laugh!

Paul White

Or free speech

Vérace

What's a decaptitated mass grave?

Paul White

09:58

@Vérace A mass grave of decapitated civilians, including children

Vérace

Where was this? Who did what to whom? Don't know about this!

Paul White

Yeah well the 'conflict' in the Donbass hasn't been well-reported in the west

Vérace

Do you have a link?

Paul White

Not to hand, no. The content would probably be blocked in the EU anyway

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace Aristophanes is a famous ancient Greek comedy writer.

Not sure what "New Aristophanes" stands for.

It might be the name of a publication (newspaper/magazine) or an artist's nickname.

Paul White

10:05

@Vérace greekcitytimes.com/2021/11/23/remains-taken-from-mass-grave

not sure if that's a reliable source or not, but there's plenty out there if you look for it

Vérace

No, it's not blocked. The EU is a democracy! I checked it out - it's controversial and disputed to say the least - one grave had 4 people - that's not a mass grave! Also, air-strikes - nobody knows which side was responsible. I find it VERY strange that news of any Ukrainian authorities' atrocities against Russophones wouldn't have leaked out further west to other Russophones.

Russophones make up a good proportion of Ukrainian soldiers and Kharkiev is majority Russophone and it's putting up stiff resistance - I don't think they'd do that if the Ukrainian govt was slaughtering their brothers and sisters!

Paul White

there is a story that the only Ukrainian army units prepared to fire on their own people in the so-called 'Anti-Terrorist Operation' were hard-right perhaps neo-nazi elements that the Ukrainian government does not have complete control over. idk how much of this is true, but it is at least worth investigation

@Vérace Yes I deliberately chose one that would be unlikely to be blocked for you. It has been extensively reported (and documentaries made) by organizations you no longer have access to

Vérace

But that would have leaked out! Russophones aren't stupid, gullible dupes!

Which organisations would these be?

Paul White

What's a russophone? Someone who speaks Russian?

@Vérace The ones recently blocked by EU diktat

Vérace

Namely?

Yes, a russophone (not capitalised) is a Russian speaker!

Anglophone = English speaker.

Where's this "diktat"?

Paul White

10:11

Don't you watch the news? bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-02/… and thejournal.ie/… came up first

Not to mention things Facebook, YouTube, TikTok etc. have taken down or prevented access to in the EU because they're not safe for you to view.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

gad, I can't even access moex website since last week.

Paul White

@ypercubeᵀᴹ What's moex?

Vérace

I can get RT on Rumble!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

Moscow Exchange

Vérace

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Maybe it's because they use Firebird? :-)

ypercubeᵀᴹ

10:21

@Vérace maybe because it's part of the economic sanctions

Vérace

Could I get sputniknews.com if I used a VPN?

Can you get all of these sites still in New Zealand?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

that's sarcasm, if it wasn't clear. Any form of removal of access to information is unacceptable in my opinion. No matter what the reasoning is.

Paul White

@Vérace Yes

Vérace

I would agree - if I choose to watch Russian propaganda - I'm a big boy, I can look after my own mind!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

I can see sputniknews.com just fine

Vérace

10:23

Where are you now - Greece or UK?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

uk

Paul White

Not in EU then 😀

ypercubeᵀᴹ

haha, no. I forgot about it ;)

Paul White

@Vérace Well if you have access and can decide for yourself what is propaganda or not have a look at the documentaries at youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBRLKmBip431_HwxtT-6sGcnCWwnUd3fY

@ypercubeᵀᴹ I am willing to make exceptions for the most extreme cases e.g. censorship of the video released by the Christchurch shooter, but they should be very few and far between. Either freedom of access to information is a fundamental principle, or it's not. You can't pick and choose based on the issue of the day.

> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference, and to seek, receive, and impart information and ideas through any media regardless of frontiers

(United Nations' 1948 Universal Declaration of Human Rights)

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@PaulWhite yeah, I can understand certain exceptions for violent media

Paul White

10:31

I get the whole idea that Putin is just plain evil, obsessed with rebuilding the USSR, won't stop at Ukraine etc. I'm just not comfortable reading only that viewpoint.

I also don't personally think it's very credible.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

I agree on all you said

Paul White

Anyway, if no one's interested in actually negotiating in good faith with other parties, we might as well launch the nukes now

Because that's the way it's headed. Sanctions and absolutism aren't going to lead us anywhere good

Vérace

Got sputniknews - downloaded hola vpn! So, boo-sucks to you, Ursula van der Leyen!

3

Paul White

ha ha

Vérace

"censorship of the video released by the Christchurch shooter," - unless it's depicting people actually being shot, then if he want's the spew anti-Islamic rubbish, surely that's his right?

Paul White

10:39

@Vérace Well I haven't seen it, obviously, but the official censor's report was p clear I wouldn't want to. It's right at the very extreme end of things. Like really really bad.

classificationoffice.govt.nz/news/news-items/…

(because I know you're going to ask for a link)

CONTENT WARNING on that

Vérace

Looks like it's people actually being killed! Fair enough that it's not being released!

When I say "looks like", I mean that I'm inferring that the video contains such content!

Paul White

Yeah that's waaaaaay over the line for me

Vérace

I wouldn't want to see that!

Paul White

The NZ censor has a history of only banning the very worst of the worst, and v few of them, so I am personally willing to take it on trust

Vérace

Some people here are grumbling - why couldn't we have done for the homeless here over the last 10 years what we're planning to do for Ukrainian refugees now!

Paul White

10:46

People do like to grumble

Vérace

They also have a point!

Paul White

Perhaps not a v empathetic one, but sure

Vérace

We're planning on building modular homes on State land! Why couldn't this have been done 10 years ago for some of our homeless?

Paul White

OTOH yes western society has several thorny problems, of which homelessness is one

Vérace

BTW, in Ireland, except for a tiny minority, homeless doens't mean rough sleeping!

Paul White

10:49

The unaffordability of housing is a widespread problem. Pretty basic human right I'd say

@Vérace Is it similar to NZ where many homeless are in transitory or emergency housing like motels?

Vérace

Exactly!

B&B's, other centres.

Paul White

Yep same

Vérace

Also, the Govt rents appartments!

Paul White

This is why I might choose the China flag

😀

Vérace

The problem is stability esp. for children - they can't be going to different schools every day of the week!

Maybe they could be housed in Uigur yurts?

Or Tibetan temples?

Paul White

10:52

Right, and even leaving aside the homeless (as people do!) there's a whole generation growing up right now that might never be able to own their home

@Vérace Every country has its problems for sure

Vérace

But, of course, with the campaign of forced sterilisation, there won't be any Uigur children - so problem solved!

Paul White

Who knows what to believe these days

Vérace

Yes, some people even believe that there are Ukrainian storm-troopers slaughtering russophones!

Paul White

Well there have been 14,000 reported deaths so I guess it's not completely implausible

The azov and aidar battalions do exist

Vérace

And how many of those were Ukrainian?

Paul White

10:57

No idea. Most? Some? All?

Vérace

I did say earlier on that the Ukrainians weren't lily-while. The motto of the Azov batallion is "Ідея Нації" (pron. something like "Idea Nazi") and their badge is as close to an SS one as you can get!

Paul White

It's basically been a civil war for 8 years or so

Some of the events of 2014 were truly disturbing e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

There's no real reason to suspect those deep-seated animosities have eased in the meantime

I don't think it's terribly controversial to suggest the coup/revolution/uprising of Euromaidan was welcomed in the west of Ukraine, but not so much in the east

Anyway, like I said right at the start, it all v complicated

Vérace

I think that might be fair enough - but the cities of Kharkiev and Sumy are putting up stiff resistance. If the russophones were unhappy with the Ukrainian govt. I would suggest that the Russians would have had flowers thrown at their tanks instead of Molotov cocktails?

"The azov and aidar battalions do exist" - they don't. Both have been disbanded!

Paul White

Azov Battalion

The Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), also known as the Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), Azov Battalion (until September 2014), or simply Azov, is a right-wing extremist, neo-Nazi, formerly paramilitary unit of the National Guard of Ukraine, based in Mariupol, in the Azov Sea coastal region. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia in May 2014 and has since been fighting Russian separatist forces in the Donbas War. It saw its first...

> On 12 November 2014, Azov was incorporated into the National Guard of Ukraine, and since then all members have been official soldiers serving in the National Guard.

One might formally disband an entity, but has it really gone away if its members still serve and you see their flags commonly? Anyway I'm not debating this point.

@Vérace Well that might have happened if there had been 100% pro-Russian support and no Ukraine military in the cities? Neither of those things is true.

And that pre-supposes the objective is to capture cities.

Vérace

11:18

The objective isn't to capture cities? Putin thinks that the Ukraine is, in fact, really Russia. I believe that he very much wants to capture cities. Why would the Russians not want to capture cities? Why not just bomb them from the air rather than risking troops if that's the case?

Paul White

@Vérace That's a very selective reading of his long speech where he specifically stated the two objectives: demilitarization and denazification.

Vérace

Just looked at my first article on sputniknews - As Russia's special operation to demilitarize and de-Nazify Ukraine continues,

Paul White

> The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime. To this end, we will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine, as well as bring to trial those who perpetrated numerous bloody crimes against civilians, including against citizens of the Russian Federation.

Vérace

It's quite entertaining really - I think I'll read a bit more...

But to "de-Nazify", he has to take the govt and the cities!

Paul White

@Vérace Maybe certain places. It's a bit of a woolly term. My best understanding is it means dealing with individuals (including oligarchs/officials) and parts of the military with clear Nazi affiliation. Who would know for sure.

I think it was Lavrov who said recently that denazification did not necessarily mean regime change i.e. central government/president

Vérace

11:25

Bit tricky to accuse Zelensky and his prime minister of being Nazis - they're both Jewish!

Paul White

@Vérace Well yes and no one has done that. The point is that certain elements of the government/military they preside over are Nazis

Poroschenko in particular had some very Nazi-adjacent things to say about citizens in the east of Ukraine

Zelenskyy was elected largely on the promise of peace in the east. I don't believe he has complete control over his military, and so lacks the means to implement the Minsk agreements

Vérace

This just in: Chernobyl ‘cut off from grid by Russians’, sparking fears over cooling of spent nuclear fuel! Oops...

I checked out Poroschenko's web page - nothing too offensive that I saw there - the most "offensive" thing was "Poroshenko warned that he had a "Plan B" if the initial peace plan was rejected"... hardly fascist or Nazi-adjacent?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

better than 3d printing: 3d knitting!

innouvators.com/en/profile/56

Vérace

11:41

Radio interviewee on RTE (State radio) - "no connection between language and poltical outlook"...

Paul White

11:52

@Vérace What were you expecting to see? Swastikas and a copy of Mein Kampf? You can research these things for yourself, but for example reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY

The situation is so corrupt and ridiculous they even tried to arrest him for treason recently reuters.com/world/europe/…

> In an ideal world, President Petro Poroshenko would purge the police and the interior ministry of far-right sympathizers, including Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, who has close ties to Azov leader Andriy Biletsky, as well as Sergei Korotkykh, an Azov veteran who is now a high-ranking police official. But Poroshenko would risk major repercussions if he did so; Avakov is his chief political rival, and the ministry he runs controls the police, the National Guard and several former militias.

Vérace

12:17

Hmmm... read it.. It would appear to me however that Zelensky doesn't have such ties or obligations, having being plucked from relative obscurity when he became president - I don't think that any of his rhetoric has tinges of right-wing anti-Russian sentiment. The fact that he may be trying to put Poroschenko before the courts would suggest that he has little sympathy for his views?

I do think that Zelensky blotted his copybook by accusing Nato/West of being responsible for the deaths of Ukranian children by not enforcing a no-fly zone. Anybody with half a brain can see why that's a non-starter - but maybe that was for domestic consumption? Many of the Ukrainian interviewees on RTÉ have also been calling for this - both politicians and ordinary people.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

maybe because they were naive enough to believe the West's promises that they would provide help ;)

Paul White

It is a plausible theory that the inexperienced Zelenskyy found himself in an impossible position and chose to bet the farm on NATO riding to his rescue. Who would know for sure.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace or maybe you are right, that is for domestic consumption. Giving an excuse for agreeing to some plan with Russia in the ongoing negotiations.

From what I hear, the latest plan suggested in the negotiations, would keep the current government (but no idea of any other details).

Paul White

Yes I heard that too. It's tough to imagine an outcome that would be better for Ukraine than could have been negotiated before Russia invaded.

Maybe it is all about selling it. Still.

Vérace

The Ukrainians have been pretty staunch about their sovereignty - and I would sympathise. Who are the Russians to tell the Ukrainians which international organisations they can join. The Russians are trying to Finlandise the Ukraine. It's backfiring badly for Putin - Finland are now engaged in a rapprochement with NATO with good reason.

ypercubeᵀᴹ

12:27

@Vérace "who are the Russians ...?"

one of the 7 members of the UN Security council.
one of the 4-5 countries in the world with enough nukes to end civilization.
the central country of former USSR.

I don't agree that power should be the only thing that counts but it does count in the international world

Paul White

It's not as if NATO is a book club

You might as well ask who are the US to say which missiles Cuba can host or not

ypercubeᵀᴹ

yeah. NATO is not a peace keeping organization.

As the US president recently said "we will not allow any Russian operation in any NATO soil".

Paul White

I have some sympathy with the view NATO is obsolete and ought to be replaced

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace Finland has a history of going back and forth with their alliances. Not without reason but I would think they might change views again ;)

Vérace

I think they just want to be left alone - they were obliged to take various positions in WWII by forces beyond their control.

Since then, they've been fairly strictly neutral.

My Dad was friendly with the director of the Finnish Meteorological Service and he used to complain that they were obliged to buy crappy equipment from the Russians/Soviets!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

12:41

That's why I said "not without reason". Still, they decided to ally with Germany to fight Russia, from 41 to 44.

Vérace

And why wouldn't they fight with the Germans? They'd been invaded by the Soviet Union! Plus, it's arguable that they saved the USSR's neck by not marching on Leningrad in 41/42 - they held back - had they help the Germans there, Leningrad may have fallen with unforeseen consequences!

I think they just took back their old borders but weren't belligerents in any real sense!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

@Vérace why wouldn't they ally with the Axis? I can think of a few reasons.

Paul White

There must be at least one good one

I wonder how many compelling arguments have ever started with the phrase, "And why wouldn't they fight with the Germans?"

Vérace

13:21

My enemy's enemy is my friend! Realpolitik!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

16:55

for Wordle enthusiasts: How to Cheat at WORDLE with PostgreSQL

Vérace

17:26

@ypercubeᵀᴹ Nice - it's a pity they can't play with accents - there are frequently words that differ only by an accent which have completely different meanings! Erwin Brandstetter says never to use SIMILAR TO because it's converted to a regex anyway, so there's always a regex that is at least as good as anything SIMILAR TO might give! You can see that in the EXPLAIN ANALYZE section at the end.

I like the use of ARRAYs. AFAIK, much of PostgreSQL is implemented via ARRAYs under the hood, so using them over another option will usually give superior performance! Link to Erwin Brandstetter's views on SIMILAR TO.

And it's not cheating - it's merely using information that could be tabulated on a piece of paper!

ypercubeᵀᴹ

17:42

> "the terror when one realizes that mysql would be better than what is currently used"

this would be good for dba reactions ^^

Vérace

18:00

Where's that quote from?

ypercubeᵀᴹ

21:58

from my company's slack channel ;)

mustaccio

23:27

I'm sure the list of candidates for "what is currently used" can be pretty long.

Sadly

Transcript for

The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®