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2:00 AM
@JoeObbish Because you can't share many details, and are just asking for guesses.
It's starting to dominate the chat room.
 
At 110 proof it's got me feeling positively capital
 
@sp_BlitzErik Maybe that's what I'm missing :)
 
@PaulWhite hire a dom
 
Unfortunately I have to drive later.
 
I'll drive! You can teach me right?
Or you can yell instructions
 
2:01 AM
I just got some helpful information and the chat room is usually dead at this hour
 
What could possibly go wrong
 
if you're ordering me as a mod to stop talking about it, fine. I'll leave my feelings on that unsaid
 
Knock if off Joe. If I'd wanted to say that, I'd say that.
 
@PaulWhite nothing in the front seat 😉
 
heh
 
2:03 AM
@PaulWhite You can't drink and drive in NZ?!
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft Well you can. There are consequences.
 
@PaulWhite That's the spirit!
 
Well what are you saying? Maybe I'm oblivious, but as far as I can tell people aren't having a bad time because of it
 
Just Saying... Ireland allows it.. sometimes: theguardian.com/world/2013/jan/22/…
 
Ireland is a bad influence
 
2:05 AM
One day I hope to be part of that bad influence
 
I have answered every technical question to the best of my ability. If my lack of ability is frustrating to you I'm not sure what to say. I'm frustrated by it too
 
living there I mean, not drinking and driving
They drive on the wrong side, so it's really hard for me sober... let alone drinking
 
if anyone is curious, TF 839 prevents SQL Server from starting up with some configurations. Might be amount of memory or might be number of CPUs. who knows
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft just get a horse
 
@sp_BlitzErik We have any kind of horse you like, as long as it's a quarter horse
@JoeObbish ouch
 
2:08 AM
Configurations are just suggestions anyway
 
@JoeObbish I'm asking you to be mindful of the other users/readers of this chat room, which is for general on- and off-site discussion; and also pointing out that as well-meaning and helpful as we all are, there's only so much that can be said without access to the system and workload details. I'm not asking you to stop.
 
@sp_BlitzErik Have you been spending time in Kalifornia?
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft by no means
 
well it amounts to asking me to stop because I can't follow the distinction. the chat room is usually dead at this time
is silence really better than one topic dominating a chat room?
maybe I'm remembering wrong, but for the most part I haven't said much about it during the main chatting hours
 
If there's a reasonable middle ground of a fully consensual group chat about it separate from this one I'd be equally useless there
 
2:16 AM
@PaulWhite I need to be tagged in all PostgreSQL snide, so I can barge in its defense. =)
 
DENIED!
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft If it was, I'd market that.
 
LOL
There's a 50 shades of grey/DBA/SQL joke in there somewhere.....
 
When I figure out the secret handshake, I get a copy?
 
2:18 AM
> You have fully used your vote allowance for today

oh crap I wonder how many things I voted on that didn't count =(
 
@EvanCarroll So much to learn, my young padawan
 
@JoeObbish Sure, but when people join the room later they see 500-odd new messages and it's hard to find the non-Joe-issue chat one might have missed. My normal suggestion, when a topic gets extended over more than a couple of days, is to move it to a separate chat room. That helps keep the information together, and gives it it's own set of stars etc.
 
Also re: starwars... Disney did a great job at making pretty pretty princess star wars movies these last 2 goes. sigh.
 
I think the thing about about the Joe/NUMA conversation that really gets me is I sympathize with Joe (who at this point I think has me on ignore, and I'm cool with it.) But don't think he has what he needs to solve the problem nor do I think he'll ever get what he needs to solve this problem.
So it's just the flailing and panic at this point. The only person that can solve Joe's problem is going to understand threading, cpu architecture, and virtualization. And, a the very least the threading component is a total black box. I'm assuming the Virtualization component is just as bad too.
So really his only option is to hire someone who worked on the code, or has access to it.
 
@EvanCarroll Well you're used to a single-threaded environment eh ;)
 
2:22 AM
It is a ton easier. ;)
 
For sure.
 
Threading is almost impossible to get right and it's not for mere mortals and I don't really understand even the C interface to threading. I can't tell the difference between kernel threads, and posix threads and those conversations make me quiver.
But I have all that information, and I still can't figure it out. So what's the chance of getting it right when that information is withheld?
 
It's nice when it just works to make stuff go faster.
Which is the normal situation, to be fair.
In SQL Server anyway.
 
yea, or it could be developed by an now-absent third party in a totally unmaintainable form that we all just pretend works -- like Inno. /smacckkkkk
 
Combining lots of cutting-edge stuff is always a good way to an interesting life.
 
2:25 AM
Yea, and you learn trying to figure out right? Another problem Joe's quest is that the poor chap isn't going to learn squat.
 
Does anyone use mysql with like
Expectations
 
I tried some multi-threaded programming in C#. I tried for quite a while. Never got any good at it.
 
@sp_BlitzErik I know w set of warehouses that run entirely on it...
 
dba.stackexchange.com/q/191781/2639 (this guy last month, lol)
 
It is free, isn't it?
 
2:26 AM
I saw that problem and I rannnn away so fast.
 
@PaulWhite the best things in life are $7k a core
 
SHOW PROFILE FOR QUERY 216;
Query 216 was an A-Hole since it was born
It's not wonder it's still being one now
 
@EvanCarroll Hahaha 16gb
 
@sp_BlitzErik It doesn't say which one WON!?!?!?! Why do you tease me like this...
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft the golfers always win
 
2:30 AM
Also... triceps today and I was angry... needless to say, I am having trouble pressing the soap pump thing to wash my hands.
 
We should make a DBA workout group
like SQL Cruise, just without any of the cruise part...
 
Everyone else is a cross fitting nitwit
 
SELECT * FROM GAINZ;
 
you can cross ef off
@sp_BlitzErik You're welcome... youtube.com/watch?v=jI2GVcjXXI8
 
2:35 AM
anyway, now that we're done talking about numa and boring stuff... POLITICS?
 
@EvanCarroll for the last time, I am not voting for your mother.
 
You were sodomized on the floor?
 
Life goals!
 
2:36 AM
@EvanCarroll you're wrong. End of conversation.
 
@sp_BlitzErik In my dream world. You're in a gulag getting reeducated with PostgreSQL.
 
@EvanCarroll in my dream world its competitive enough that I have to learn it
2
 
@sp_BlitzErik it's waiting at the finish line for the race you'll start next year.
 
@sp_BlitzErik ouchies
 
🤗
 
2:40 AM
Brought us back on topic: politics! I like it.
We can all agree liberals suck, and conservatives?
 
@sp_BlitzErik That's pitiful.
 
And that the one true way is communist revolution.
 
Oh! Our Prime Minister is pregnant
 
You all need something better to do. Let's play a game: first person to upvote 20 of my questions wins.
 
@EvanCarroll Do you have your PG gold badge yet?
 
2:43 AM
@PaulWhite you get around.
 
@PaulWhite This game is sooooo rigged, the dungeon master is clearly an MCSE.
 
I'll take that as a "no" then :)
The problem is probably that Postgres voting is single threaded and stored in a heap.
 
Keep it up and I'll work towards getting a gold badge in SQL Server afterwards.
 
=) your community can't handle me!
 
2:48 AM
I would love you to get a gold badge!
 
@PaulWhite that's a 10x response
 
hahahah that comment.
 
chur
 
> Shaggy is the final boss in speech recognition programming
REPLY
 
Clearly that person has never heard Shane McGowan speak
 
2:49 AM
Never read the comments
 
Never leave comments either
 
I endorse that chat message
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft Did you say you have a blog?
Or were going to start one?
 
Start playing with PostgreSQL, we can call it "Crossing Over".. Worked for John Edward.
 
he has one!
i... shamefully
left a comment
 
Link?
 
Oh right that one. Ta.
@sp_BlitzErik Your comment is lacking ™
 
personal site is broken
@PaulWhite at least it's not lakhing
 
There is that
What was that old unloved Enterprise feature...scalable shared databases?
 
@PaulWhite Team blog, and I never have enough time to write good stuff or have interesting ideas
 
I'm reading What is a Read-Scale Availability Group?
Looks good?
 
3:01 AM
It's either funny or sad... or both? I've had more internal employees reference that blog than our docs page
Yesterday I got an email from an internal employee titled "I saw your answer on stack overflow..."
 
Seems to be a trend. Light documentation, better blogs (eventually)
The trick is keeping track of what is documented where.
And whether it is maintained.
 
yeah blogs aren't the best place
 
this is my favorite
 
but I'd rather people have the information than not
 
> Parallel Clusters project
 
3:03 AM
But hey, Agile, DevOps, and whatnot
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft Yes absolutely.
 
@PaulWhite I want to beat people to a pulp whomever thought constant updates like it was an app on a phone is good
 
@PaulWhite ok, understood
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft We can all agree on that. Except maybe Evan, he'll have a revolutionary communist model in mind no doubt.
@JoeObbish It's only a suggestion. Let me know if you need help setting it up. I can't speak for others, but I am finding it hard to keep past details in mind. A separate chat should make that easier. As a room owner, you can relocate messages.
 
3:05 AM
Haha, I had to take 2 Azure tests... by the time I took the test half of the items were deprecated or no longer available.
3
 
@sp_BlitzErik I wonder what that is/was.
 
@PaulWhite I have a guess... not sure I'm right though
 
@PaulWhite multiple writable iirc
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft Polybase?
@sp_BlitzErik Did that make it into the wild? I don't recall it.
 
No, I'm thinking a Keanu reeves movie
 
3:08 AM
far out
 
@PaulWhite not even close
 
Pretty sure a new column was added in the log output for it
 
@sp_BlitzErik Ah so you have Inside Information™
 
It's so hard to keep track of stuff
 
It really is.
And now we have Linux.
 
3:10 AM
It's getting to the point I need a OneNote for my OneNotes
@PaulWhite ugh.
 
I have a 3D trace flag list
2
 
Epic
and not the EMR
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft oh that piece of crap
 
HAhaha I see you've met
 
@PaulWhite I heard a funny story from someone who drank too much
 
3:13 AM
Could be worse... I had to deal with AllScrewups.. .I mean Allscripts
@sp_BlitzErik Do tell
 
Most interesting information comes via red-wine-infused PMs at MVP Summit
2
 
That's one of the few things I'm not allergic to
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft can't here! This is a public forum.
 
@PaulWhite this is why you have the trace flags
 
3:15 AM
Nah they don't trust mere PMs with those
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft I wouldn't want to be regarded as untrustworthy
 
too late?
lol ok
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft 😎
 
can you give me the last letter of what you think it is?
 
🔥🔥🔥
 
3:17 AM
if anyone is interested in such a chat room let me know
I'm kind of stumped (and the room is in agreement on the right next step), so nothing really for me to say anymore
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft me?
 
hai
I'm telling you, the one gf I had that was Japanese really ingrained words into my head
 
@sp_BlitzErik I'm hurt
 
I'm no good at word puzzles
@JoeObbish 😚
 
lol
I bid you all a good geographically appropriate time of day greeting
 
3:20 AM
it's a legacy application I swear
 
@JoeObbish as soon as you get off that vm...
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft adios
 
@sp_BlitzErik if you keep this up you'll get one of those dreaded invites to private chats ~
 
@SeanGallardy-Microsoft haere rā
 
@JoeObbish I prefer email
 
a group... email?
then I can add people without their consent
that's a great idea
I'll CC Bill Gates
 
3:24 AM
Did he try running it on the metal yet?
I'm still confused even where he left off with this project
 
@EvanCarroll nope
 
Run it on heavy metal
 
@JoeObbish what are you using to virtualize?
 
I'll run it on linux
 
Clustered columnstore on Hekaton on Linux
 
3:26 AM
it's interesting that someone thought "hekaton" was a good name
 
I like it better than XTP
EXTREME THREADING P
What is in his dom0?
 
@JoeObbish I like it. Much better than In-Memory OLTP
 
is there a hidden meaning?
admittedly, it's the same company that gave us Zune and Xbone
 
Heka is a prefix meaning 100 isn't it? As in 100x faster, which was the target IIRC
 
It's greek for 100 (looked it up)
 
3:30 AM
No wonder no one uses it. Even 10X developers aren't able to handle it
 
> Hekaton is from the Greek word ἑκατόν for “hundred”. Our design goal for the Hekaton original proof of concept prototype was to achieve 100x speedup for certain TP operations.
 
Hekatonne
 
I think it got 30x speedup in some video I saw about it.
 
oh, ἑκατόν
 
@EvanCarroll DeWitt keynote?
 
3:31 AM
@EvanCarroll You might be thinking of columnstore?
 
of course
how silly of me
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ can confirm
 
one of the authors working in a google hangouts with two other people
 
I imagine so
 
I think it was a brent ozar video
 
3:31 AM
Well
 
I WATCH THEM FOR THE LULZ
 
@EvanCarroll that's about what they're good for
 
I can feel Evan turning to the dark side
 
If we Really Cared® we'd be on plural sight
Or so I'm told
 
can't learn enough on the Microsoft side. =( They keep me in the dark and scream "no secret handshakes for you."
 
3:34 AM
SQL Server is quicker, easier, more seductive. - Yoda
 
@PaulWhite Young and Good Looking©
 
I envy people that know more than one part of the SQL Server stack well
 
@PaulWhite that's not gonna be a thing much longer
 
@PaulWhite Who fits that criteria in your estimation?
 
@PaulWhite how many stacks would you say there are?
 
3:37 AM
@sp_BlitzErik How so?
@JoeObbish I'm not even sure tbh
@EvanCarroll Can't think of anyone offhand
 
examples of what you mean by stacks?
 
oh gawd.
 
@JoeObbish I was struggling for a word. Major product areas?
In the past, it would have been SSIS/SSAS/SSRS/Mirroring/Replication etc.
 
So things that MSFT has different PMs for? Or something else?
oh, that's what I was looking for
 
3:40 AM
oh, those are all products.
That's funny glad Joe asked now
When I saw stacks I thought you referring to internals. (different background)
 
I'm trying to Talk Like A Developer
 
I was thinking: database layout, threading and workload distribution, indexing, query planning, etc.
 
I'd include query optimization/execution, Hekaton, Columnstore, Always On AGs now
But exclude core T-SQL because everyone knows that, and it doesn't change much
 
I'm sure there are people who meet your criteria there, if you're using relative expertise
but I suspect that you aren't
 
@PaulWhite sort of long winded but the surface area for someone to be good at perf and or infrastructure and is going to get harder
 
3:43 AM
@JoeObbish Where is "there"?
 
@PaulWhite knowing more than one part of the stack well
 
For one person to master
 
The only person that impresses me on the Microsoft side that I've really been amazed by that wasn't employed by Microsoft was the OrcaMDF guy, there is also an Indian blogger that has come up a lot that does a killer job blogging about the server too
 
@sp_BlitzErik Oh right then yeah
 
@sp_BlitzErik but AI
 
3:43 AM
@JoeObbish To an expert level I mean
 
Mark S. Rasmussen
 
Oh yeah Azure, Cosmos, DW, R, AI...
@EvanCarroll Nah.
 
Expert level or Paul White Expert Level™?
 
@PaulWhite not a fan?
 
@EvanCarroll Oh I'm a great fan. But he's a specialist as well.
 
3:45 AM
What do you mean when you say specialist?
 
Makes me want the automation end to pick up to take the low end out
 
@EvanCarroll One expert area.
For some (high) value of expert.
@JoeObbish It's tough to define these things, but think reasonably expensive consultant that is actually worth the money.
Actually someone like Greg Low or Erland Sommarskog might make my list.
 
Adam
 
But I'm just talking.
@sp_BlitzErik Again, pretty specific expert area.
 
CLR isn't a separate area?
 
3:48 AM
Oh sorry, wrong list
 
You know I still have the Hekaton log viewer. which is not distributed to windows users
=)
 
@JoeObbish Arguably. Though he'd probably not accept himself as an expert.
@EvanCarroll Is SSMS available for Linux?
 
yes, though I haven't installed it
afaik anyway
I don't at all care about their gui stuff
 
What did Carbon become? SQL Operations Studio?
That's cross-platform and open source.
 
I'm going to print out a list of the DBCC complete trace codes when I get more time, then I want to work on linking in C/C++ code into the server I've been having problems cross compiling or loading that through the clr.
 
3:52 AM
See I don't even know if SQLCLR is functional on Linux
 
Neither do I, and it's not documented so there is a good chance it's not.
 
Vaguely recall something about some .NET core or something
 
but they do have .net core on linux
 
Yep
 
yep
I got that.
That's a cluster fuck, btw.
I wasn't too familiar with .net compilation and lingo so I worked on it a bit
 
3:53 AM
Something else I'm not qualified to comment on :(
 
I'm still not sure why we have to use the CLR. That seems like a mess.
What can't i do with a little bit of cleverness and XTP
and is there really a chance that they're going to remove XTP?
 
XTP?
 
I couldn't get mingw to compile with xtp either
the extended stored procedures api that allows native code
 
Oh right yeah they've been deprecated and discouraged for a long time
 
yea, but who cares right? =)
 
3:57 AM
Well when an extended proc corrupts SQL Server process memory or takes the whole instance down...
 
I honestly don't care at all what they suggest, deprecate, or discourage. they're trying to push .net everywhere.
@PaulWhite don't write crap code =)
 
The world would be a better place without code bugs for sure
 
anyway, I'm not scared of C or C++ even if I'm not the best at it. Things won't just corrupt the processes memory or take the instance down. I'm not that bad. ;)
I think you could probably point to the failures of C# for the reasons that SQL Server has so little outside development (as far as I've seen anyway).
 
As time has gone by, I've used CLR less and less
 
which is sad, because it is so vital to a healthy community and good performance.
 
4:03 AM
@PaulWhite I know you had a use for it with some aggregates. What else has it made sense for?
 
@sp_BlitzErik I've been told you can use it to avoid some unnecessary sorts in query plans
 
What do you mean, what has it made sense for?
 
have you looked at SQL#?
 
@JoeObbish it creates indexes? 🙄
 
@sp_BlitzErik indexes aren't enough to avoid some unnecessary sortrs
 
4:08 AM
@JoeObbish maybe with your heaps and columnstores
 
@sp_BlitzErik do you not use the CLR for your projects?
 
@sp_BlitzErik People like it for RegEx etc, but yeah, aggregates.
@EvanCarroll I used to enjoy reading things like blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/cbrumme/2004/02/21/hosting
 
@sp_BlitzErik we don't have an index in the database
it's great
but really, it's for stuff like I have a data set ordered by a date column
then I add one day to the date
the query optimizer doesn't realize that the data is still ordered
 
@EvanCarroll I don't because I'm garbage with it. Our developer Richie does quite a bit of c# but not sqlclr AFAIK
@PaulWhite yeah the thing I always find stack dumping on max columns. Proper Regex would be brilliant.
@JoeObbish I know what you mean
 
I think if I was using SQL Server, I'd be best friends with the SQL CLR.
 
4:13 AM
@EvanCarroll aren't you?
 
I prefer the PostgreSQL system (obviously), but I think it's not half bad.
@sp_BlitzErik only to take SQL Server a part and solve other people's problems
I don't actually start or do new projects with Microsoft products.
 
Yet
Use your anger...
 
@EvanCarroll if you're gonna wah about it as much as you do you might as well make yourself useful
 
Keep it up and I'll tell Joe that you're paying us all to withhold the answer to his problem.
 
@EvanCarroll I'd encourage that
 
4:21 AM
@sp_BlitzErik teh grief!!!
I really wish this system had a more efficient method of retagging and fixing tags.
Not just do you not have batch operations, you have to click into the question to retag it
that's horseshit
Most of the tags with [stored-procedures] and [postgresql] are wrong it would be super nice if I didn't have to go two pages in to fix the titles and tags.
 
4:40 AM
You don't
 
 
2 hours later…
6:18 AM
Tags removed. You may apply a green tick if you so wish. — Paul White ♦ 2 mins ago
When I become mod, I'm going to give every question a sixth paul-rox tag in commemoration
 
6:48 AM
861 messages!!
Good grief, what happened? Is Microsoft discontinuing SQL Server because of Evan?
 
GOD HATH ANSWERED ME?
Are the golfers all dead? Did the pineapple pizza disappear too? Communist revolution? The reds took congress and Wall Street?
 
7:13 AM
@EvanCarroll are triggers just SQL or do they let you do unsafe stuff? Presumably I can grant privileges (I'm not going expose superuser)
 
I don't know the answer to that, I wrote my first trigger in MySQL today!
And I'm an "expert" with MySQL.
That's the amazing thing I guess about MySQL. No matter how big the install is, all they ever do is SELECT/UPDATE/INSERT/DELETE.
It's pretty weird.
1
A: Storing the last updated date of a row in a different table

Evan Carroll My current idea is to to create a new table in the legacy database and then create a trigger on the old table to insert the date and primary key of any new rows created or updated in the old tables. Your method will work, but that seems almost more likely to break something.. In that case, y...

 
7:41 AM
@PaulWhite confirmed ;)
 
@ypercubeᵀᴹ Thank you ;)
 
and is still in use. It has lost the final "n" when used as "100", but kept it for composite numbers
eg 101 = εκατόν είκοσι
the "ν" is the n
 
-1
Q: postgresql json format (ORDER BY CLAIM_COUNTER I need)

Vijay KSELECT array_to_json(array_agg(Result)) FROM ( SELECT C.eCPClaim_carrier_id ,json_agg( row_to_json( ( SELECT t FROM ( SELECT C.eCPClaim_Key AS CLAIM_KEY ...

0
Q: postgresql json_agg order by issue ( ORDER BY CLAIM_COUNTER I need)

Vijay KSELECT array_to_json(array_agg(Result)) FROM ( SELECT C.eCPClaim_carrier_id ,json_agg( row_to_json( ( SELECT t FROM ( SELECT C.eCPClaim_Key AS CLAIM_KEY ...

One of them should be deleted
 
7:57 AM
zomfg how do they write code with that white space.
 
Answering some comments in the last 881 messages:
Yes @JoeObbish, Bare metal might not be the solution but it will certainly omit any potential grievance with VMs.
 

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