The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2017-12-13 (page 1 of 2)

yper-trollᵀᴹ

00:04

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells is that sarcasm?

Evan Carroll

01:06

Nifty1!!!!!

oh this is cool

I got my answers on the resourcedb

Evan Carroll

01:30

0

A: Where is the Resource Database persisted (located on disk)?

I've confirmed that this Resource Database is packed in the archive, /opt/mssql/lib/sqlservr.sfp. So the answer to the question is that it resides in the sfp archive. More to the answer, you can extract that sfp with the method here creating a new file with the contents, /opt/mssql/lib/sqlservr/...

I wonder why though they put just that db in the archive file

yper-trollᵀᴹ

01:47

secret hat

2

Evan Carroll

02:34

Microsoft compiles internally a utility called palrun into sqlserver on Linux that utility can run any exe in any srf under Drawbridge

I guess the cool part starts when someone figures out how to extract the instructions in palrun.

Michael Green

03:34

Quick sanity check. If there are duplicate values in table Source and I run insert Target (col) select col from Source where not exits (select 1 from target where target.col = source.col) how many rows will end up in Target? SQL Server, if it matters.

Evan Carroll

duplicate values.

Paul White

agreed

Evan Carroll

Isn't it easier to just tias though?

Paul White

tias?

Evan Carroll

try it and see..

Paul White

03:43

ah

ctas has corrupted me

Evan Carroll

@MichaelGreen WHERE NOT EXISTS (SELECT null) is essentially a noop, so it's just an insert with multiple rows.

CREATE TABLE target AS WITH source AS ( VALUES (1),(1) ) SELECT * FROM source WHERE NOT EXISTS ( SELECT WHERE false );

Paul White

@EvanCarroll The subquery is correlated though (where target.col = source.col)

Michael Green

Bum. My intuition said the NOT EXISTS would have prevented duplicates.

Sanity checked and found wanting.

Paul White

@MichaelGreen You'd need EXCEPT for that

Michael Green

Maybe I'll get a new one for Christmas.

Paul White

03:46

Where there's life there's hope

Michael Green

Ta. EXCEPT worked. So did select distinct.

Which I guess EXCEPT does behind the covers.

Paul White

EXCEPT is EXCEPT DISTINCT in SQL Server.

EXCEPT ALL not yet implemented.

Maybe U-SQL has it

Evan Carroll

@PaulWhite exists is never correlated, it's an anti-join.

@PaulWhite if the row exists, 0 get copied.

Michael Green

@EvanCarroll Yes. I did try it. That's when I became surprised by the outcome.

Paul White

@EvanCarroll It's a correlated anti join.

Evan Carroll

03:50

in the sense that every join is correlated?

(well except cross joins)

Paul White

No, in the apply/lateral sense.

Evan Carroll

It's not in that sense though.

Michael Green

@PaulWhite That's so last Tuesday. As of tomorrow I'm rewriting the application in Q#. Then there may or may not be duplicates and we'll never know until a cat looks. Or something like that.

Joe Obbish

@MichaelGreen thinking about the nature of halloween protection might be helpful

Paul White

@MichaelGreen Excellent point.

@EvanCarroll All I'm saying is that the written form of the query Michael presented looks like a correlated subquery to me. It can be trivially unnested to an anti join of course.

SELECT Source.col FROM Source ANTI JOIN Target ON Target.col = Source.col;

Evan Carroll

03:59

In appearance, sure. I guess it would depend on how you define a correlated subquery by plan or appearance.

Paul White

But many/most SQL lacks that syntax. Except U-SQL as noted.

Evan Carroll

Well, all sql databases have anti joins.

Paul White

@EvanCarroll Both for this example in SQL Server dbfiddle.uk/…

Evan Carroll

It's just a left-outer-join on NULL.

(internally)

Michael Green

@JoeObbish I sorta-kinda agree with you. The original Halloween bug was an update relocating a row such that the data scan re-read and updated the row again. The fix was to list all the rows that will be affected, then apply the change. Its obvious that method is being applied in this circumstance. Here I think I have the complement of the Halloween situation, though, where I want the data re-read as the INSERTs are processed.

Paul White

04:00

@EvanCarroll I only really know SQL Server. The QO/QP/QE have anti joins, but not the T-SQL language.

@EvanCarroll In SQL Server they're deliberately different, though sematically the same.

For historical reasons related to manual performance tuning.

Evan Carroll

I don't know SQL Server, what do you mean they're deliberately differently, and what is QO/QP/QE?

Paul White

Query optimizer, query processor, query execution engine.

@EvanCarroll I mean LEFT JOIN select NULLs is not simplified to an anti join.

Michael Green

@PaulWhite That's exactly the plan I got locally.

Paul White

Though LEFT JOIN reject NULLs may be (with the necessary DISTINCT).

@MichaelGreen It's a very common shape for that type of query. Drives me nuts. I have a 70% complete article on the topic.

I might finish it this week.

Evan Carroll

What do you mean it's not simplified to an anti-join? in the query you pasted it shows "(Left Anti Semi Join)"

Paul White

04:04

@EvanCarroll Yeah but I didn't use a LEFT JOIN.

I'm talking about equivalent syntax.

Evan Carroll

So you're saying LEFT JOIN ON NULL doesn't get planned the same way?

Paul White

Yes exactly

Assuming you mean LJ WHERE NULL rather than ON

It could get optimized the same way, but it doesn't because people sometimes write anti joins that way to get a particular plan shape.

Evan Carroll

No, I mean SELECT * FROM a WHERE NOT EXISTS ( SELECT 1 FROM b WHERE a.id=b.id) should be the same as SELECT * FROM a LEFT OUTER JOIN b WHERE b.id IS NULL

Paul White

Personally I'd very much like to be able to write A SEMIJOIN B or A ANTIJOIN B

Evan Carroll

They should both get planed as an antijoin.

Paul White

04:07

@EvanCarroll That's almost right but the join needs to be an outer join and the id column needs to be not nullable.

Evan Carroll

Erg, yes.

Fixed*

Why does the id column have to be not nullable?

Paul White

It doesn't if the missing ON clause is an equijoin on id that rejects nulls.

Also the projection needs to be a.*

So something like SELECT DISTINCT a.* FROM a LEFT JOIN b ON a.id = b.id WHERE b.id IS NULL

Evan Carroll

I'm totally lost, I gotta bow out. I'm thinking it's a miscommunication

Paul White

a ▷ b is easier

Michael Green

@PaulWhite Typed on mobile?

Paul White

04:12

@MichaelGreen No, on my laptop. Does the relational anti join operator not render for you?

Relational algebra

Relational algebra, first created by Edgar F. Codd while at IBM, is a family of algebras with a well-founded semantics used for modelling the data stored in relational databases, and defining queries on it. The main application of relational algebra is providing a theoretical foundation for relational databases, particularly query languages for such databases, chief among which is SQL. == Introduction == Relational algebra received little attention outside of pure mathematics until the publication of E.F. Codd's relational model of data in 1970. Codd proposed such an algebra as a basis for database...

Michael Green

@PaulWhite as an unshaded, right-pointing triangle.

Paul White

@MichaelGreen Oh that's correct

Joe Obbish

these get optimized the same way in oracle sometimes

Michael Green

I look forward to hearing about your successes trying to type it while on mobile, while on chat.dba.se

Joe Obbish

it can be pretty annoying actually

Paul White

04:18

A |> B 😀 @MichaelGreen

Joe Obbish

@PaulWhite thanks, much better

Paul White

Any decent chat interface would have full relational operator support of course

I wonder if math sites etc have LaTeX in chat

Joe Obbish

I need to parse some xml

I wonder if I should just convert it to JSON

Paul White

It will surely be faster and more modern

@Joe Have you enabled 4138 instance wide?

I thought Dynamics/Sharepoint had a recommendation on that but couldn't find it

Joe Obbish

@PaulWhite no but every day I drift a little more in that direction

it's so annoying

Paul White

04:28

@JoeObbish Write all your AJs like this: dbfiddle.uk/… :)

Modifying the example from earlier for entertainment value

Joe Obbish

MY FIRST XML QUERY WORKED

!!!!!!!!

sorry I got carried away

Paul White

Hearty congrats

@MikaelEriksson would be so proud

Joe Obbish

not if he saw the code!

Paul White

Baby steps

Joe Obbish

the outer "Source.col is not null" isn't doing anything in that example?

@forrest I used your demo scripts to get my XML query working without having to learn anything, so thanks!

@PaulWhite I might be able to get that on a good day, and today isn't a good day :)

happy to wait for the explanation though

Paul White

04:46

@JoeObbish What makes you say that?

Joe Obbish

I commented it out and got the same plan

Paul White

@JoeObbish Ah so you're saying redundant null-rejection is never a good thing?

But sure, I understand what you're saying and why you said it

Joe Obbish

"never" is a tough word to pull off

Paul White

05:14

I thought you might be reminded of a certain hash-joiny type situation

yper-trollᵀᴹ, Athens, Greece and London, UK

62.4k 11 98 174

lol

Mikael Eriksson

@JoeObbish be careful, down that path lies shredding. Shredding like you have never seen it before.

4

Paul White

So a moderator hat is one of the secret hats this year

Connect replacement is live: feedback.azure.com/forums/908035-sql-server

Andriy M

06:15

"212 ideas"? Is that the same as "212 tickets" (or "212 bug reports")?

Good morning

Evan Carroll

06:30

SQL Server has also been the least vulnerable database during the last seven years. SQL

where do they get this ...

Paul White

07:16

@AndriyM Guess so. It's a user voice thing?

Evan Carroll

07:29

Lol these CVE listings are such propaganda

hot2use

Wishing you all a very good morning, midday, afternoon, evening(,) and night wherever you are

Andriy M

07:46

@PaulWhite I didn't immediately took notice of the section on the right, where all ideas are categorised. That seems to clear it up for me.

Paul White

Oh yeah there's that

Andriy M

That feedback system doesn't appear to "recognise" my Microsoft account, in the sense that it looks as though I need to register first. I think I didn't have to do that with Connect. Is it so completely different?

Anyway, I guess I don't have a choice if I still wish to participate

yper-trollᵀᴹ

Why answer with a SQL Server query when the question is tagged with Oracle? There are sites (sqlfiddle.com , dbfiddle.uk ) where you can test your queries and modify them for the DBMS in question. — yper-trollᵀᴹ 1 min ago

I'm a bit irritated by the anwers that say "this is for another DBMS but yeah, I'm lazy to test for yours"

Paul White

@AndriyM Yep. It's all pretty new so who knows.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndriyM I had problems with Connect lately. I just couldn't connect ...

Andriy M

08:06

@yper-trollᵀᴹ Speaking of puns... I patrol too, you know. Maybe not as frequently as you do, but I wouldn't have bragged about it anyway!

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndriyM I'll pretend I've understood the pun ;)

Andy K

morning and evening

Andriy M

BJEAGL: I actually have no idea how the "yper" part of the "yper-troll" nickname is supposed to be pronounced in English but one possibility for me is /aıpə/. Combined with the pronounciation of "troll", it sounds to me the same as "I patrol".

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndriyM nice, thnx!

Tom V

08:55

@PaulWhite They had 4136 for a while but retracted that recommendation

The recommendation remains all over the internet now but support doesn't suggest it any more

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

09:34

@yper-trollᵀᴹ Closer to irony, I think.

McNets

morning

yper-trollᵀᴹ

> We reached out to Amjith Ramanujam, the founder of the dbcli organization, did an in-depth demo, explained what we were trying to do, and explored if mssql-cli could be included in the dbcli family. Simply put, Amjith and the other maintainers of the project were delighted and welcomed us with open arms!

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Jolly good. Microsoft the good corporate citizen. Who would have thought?

Having said that, some of their other open-source efforts have been pretty good. IronPython was a good system, although since Jim Hugunin left it seems to be in the doldrums a bit.

They do a way better job of supporting free software than Oracle.

hot2use

09:56

Tough one

I'm having issues understanding the following sentence in your question: want to insert date in 'dd/mm/yyyy' format so using below query but selecting result set is showing correct but while inserting it is going as '000000' How can the it be possible that "...it is correct but showing '000000'..."? Please edit your question and try to rephrase it. We understand that English might not be your native language and that it might be difficult to express you issue. We do try to accommodate for that, but sometimes it is difficult for us. — hot2use 54 secs ago

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@hot2use yeah. I edited but didn't want to change the original wording, fearing it might change the meaning - which is not very clear.

I think I understand what the issue is - and why it happens. But the question needs more clarity

hot2use

@yper-trollᵀᴹ Could you possibly comment on what you think it might be and if correct ask OP to incorporate that into his question?

yper-trollᵀᴹ

PLus, it got me a hat. Or rather glasses!

hot2use

Oooooo!

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@hot2use I'll just edit. Last 2 times I asked him to edit, he didn't and only added comments.

edited

hot2use

10:18

Cheers

yper-trollᵀᴹ

Not a very clear question either.

"Also, the query is grouping on UserName, Type, Location." No, it isn't. Not the one you showed at least. Please edit the question and show us your query. — yper-trollᵀᴹ 3 mins ago

Well, it's clear but then they add that "the query is grouping on UserName, Type, Location." which confuses.

hot2use

@yper-trollᵀᴹ Yes, very confusing.

We get to see the results of a group by in his question and multiple items which have been grouped contain NULL which should be replaced. With what?

Paul White

@TomV Ah, thanks

yper-trollᵀᴹ

10:34

@hot2use with the value from another row (with same username, different type and +-15 min in datetime)

hot2use

ahhh. Now I understand.

gbn

10:53

Anyone got that link about how to break into SQL Server when not sysadmin please?

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@gbn you mean this q? dba.stackexchange.com/questions/192901/…

Tom V

11:17

@gbn are you admin on the windows level?

you mean starting as single user, adding yourself and restarting again?

Andriy M

12:44

@yper-trollᵀᴹ I think they added that detail about their query because they thought it might be relevant. It's quite possible that it doesn't matter.

They never showed the real query. The bit of code is just a set of conditions they want to apply when choosing a row to populate the current row's location from.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndriyM Yes. It may not matter but if we had their query, the (answer) query might be possibly simplified.

Also that datetime is likely an aggregate of some kind, so answers should consider it (writing the answer with a CTE or a derived table that the OP can easily substitute with the original query)

@AndriyM It is relevant in a way. The result set has a unique constraint on (UserName, Type, Location)

Andriy M

@yper-trollᵀᴹ Absolutely. I only meant to clarify that bit because your comment seemed to imply that the OP had any query in the question when in fact they didn't.

Your main point (show your query) still stands

yper-trollᵀᴹ

Yeah. I realized my "Not the one you showed at least." wasn't very accurately phrased but I couldn't come up with a different phrase. At least not anything that didn't look like trolling.

I have to be careful with this Oh' Shiny new name

gbn

@TomV yes. It's a dodgy install I have to recover

Andriy M

@yper-trollᵀᴹ The OP hasn't seen your comment, there's still time to repost it.

Tom V

12:56

@gbn gist.github.com/wadewegner/1677788

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndriyM I added one more.

@Andriy, how do you know he hans't seen it?

Andriy M

@yper-trollᵀᴹ It's a bit presumptuous, of course, I'm judging by their last visit time.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

Ah. OK. Last seen at SO: 50 min ago

Andriy M

Or "last seen" time

@yper-trollᵀᴹ That's what it didn't occur to me to check.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

but that could be only a browser tab open. Probably they haven't seen the comments

Andriy M

13:05

Might not have seen the notification. In my experience, they are not as noticeable on white as they are on black.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

A lot of suggested edits today, many by the same user

Andriy M

What the Hats Season can't do to people.

3

yper-trollᵀᴹ

Rejected a few, even rolled back one that was accepted.

Is the Winter Bas page broken for you?

winterbash2017.stackexchange.com/leaderboard

Andriy M

They seem to be going through old posts, and it doesn't look like those have been bumped by Community recently. More like the user is deliberately looking through them for issues to fix.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

There is a hat for editing old posts

Andriy M

13:13

Ah, I haven't looked at all of the hats yet. That explains it.

I mean I did expect a hat for editing something, but the one specifically about editing old posts explains why it's mostly old posts for that user.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

yeah, she got two hats for the edits

Lamak

@yper-trollᵀᴹ I have won zero hats yet....but that was expected since I just got here

Andy K

Yper-Cube became Yper-Troll ... wow

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@AndyK it's only temporary. Last year I was typo-cube

gbn

@TomV Thanks, that worked

Tom V

13:26

I got a secret hat (y)

A moderator hat at that

hot2use

A lakh question

0

Q: how to optimize query with left join and multiples tables

I'm trying to run a query on MySQL database, but query takes too much time even database size is not too large around 1lakh data in each table. This is my query : SELECT post_feeds.post_id ,post_feeds.post_title ,post_feeds.post_date ,post_feeds.post_featured_img AS post_fe...

mysql join

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@hot2use lakhs details?

3

hot2use

bwahahahahahah

:-D

I'm going to develop a lakh-tose intollerance

McNets

I'm tempted to reject and edit all edits from this op: dba.stackexchange.com/users/140482/kindle-q

hot2use

@McNets +1

We had somebody do that just recently and @PaulWhite had a peek. Can't remember what he did though.

yper-trollᵀᴹ

13:39

I approve your rejections

> User suspended due to hat fever

6

Andriy M

@yper-trollᵀᴹ That was proper trolling. I bought it.

Tom V

Uber-trolling

Paul White

218

A: How do suggested edits work?

See the related blog post for an overview with screenshots: Suggested Edits and Edit Review. Who can suggest an edit? Registered users without the edit privilege (2000 rep) can suggest edits to any post or tag wiki. Registered users who have the edit privilege but are not trusted users (<20000...

Details of automatic edit suggestion bans can be found there.

(not specific to hat season of course!)

bluefeet

So many mod hats in here

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@PaulWhite so they probably got the ban. right.

> Editor Stats

Kindle Q had 9 edit suggestions approved, and 11 edit suggestions rejected

Paul White

13:54

@bluefeet A moderate number :)

4

Paul White

14:07

@yper-trollᵀᴹ The system works pretty well to prevent a rush of poor edits without overreacting. It does rely on careful reviewers, which luckily we have.

John Eisbrener

Why is @EvanCarroll asking sooo many SQL Server questions? Why am I getting a bad feeling?

hot2use

@JohnEisbrener :-)

sp_BlitzErik

@gbn you around?

Paul White

@JohnEisbrener What did you have for lunch? Sometimes that can cause a bad feeling.

gbn

@sp_BlitzErik yeah

John Eisbrener

14:12

If you've ever given Evan's profile page a read, you'll understand what I mean.

sp_BlitzErik

@gbn i have a pr with some tinkering in databaserestore, would you mind kicking it around when you have a chance?

Paul White

@JohnEisbrener I sent Evan a SQL Server <3 Linux t-shirt for Christmas.

Andriy M

@JohnEisbrener SQL Server on Linux has apparently gained enough visibility for Evan to notice it, so I imagine he's enjoying playing with it, taking it apart.

sp_BlitzErik

@PaulWhite i got a rock.

Paul White

@sp_BlitzErik Engraved?

sp_BlitzErik

14:18

thrown

Paul White

LOL

gbn

sure

sp_BlitzErik

thanks

@PaulWhite do you have a blog post re: heaps/deletes/rcsi?

Paul White

@sp_BlitzErik This one? sqlblog.com/blogs/paul_white/archive/2012/08/31/…

sp_BlitzErik

i suppose that'll do.

Paul White

14:33

@sp_BlitzErik Were you trying to remember one of mine, or just asking generally?

I'm sure I've written about heaps/deletes/rcsi more than once.

Pretty wide net.

sp_BlitzErik

well, specifically about the pages not being deallocated drama

Paul White

Oh that. Don't think so, only in passing.

i.e. as an aside

sp_BlitzErik

would you mind if i ran with it a bit? i need some source material to point people to

Paul White

@sp_BlitzErik Go nuts!

Worst case, people throw rocks.

Lamak

@PaulWhite are you sure you should say that to @sp_BlitzErik?

sp_BlitzErik

14:38

has anyone else noticed that @Lamak doesn't have a hat but thinks he can talk to people with hats?

2

Joe Obbish

@sp_BlitzErik I have a patent on that topic

sp_BlitzErik

you have a patent on most things to do with heaps

Joe Obbish

kindly pay your royalty fee of 1 lakh cents

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik I have

Andriy M

@sp_BlitzErik Having no hat relieves you of having to bare you head before speaking.

sp_BlitzErik

14:39

@JoeObbish i lakh all common cents

5

Paul White

@Lamak I'm in a reckless mood :)

Lamak

@PaulWhite winterbash really is your favorite time

*here

Paul White

@sp_BlitzErik Or this Q & A dba.stackexchange.com/a/52647 in case that's useful.

sp_BlitzErik

@PaulWhite DDIPS

mon dieu

Paul White

quoi?

Oh, the table alias.

SQLPrompt.

sp_BlitzErik

14:48

blame the tool

Paul White

By default.

@AndriyM and @yper-trollᵀᴹ Do one of you want to work the comments about unrestricted updates into this accepted answer dba.stackexchange.com/a/192691 or a separate one?

It just seems odd that there isn't an answer containing the actual answer at the moment, as far as I can tell anyway.

gbn

@sp_BlitzErik What is needed sorry? Being a bit thick right now

yper-trollᵀᴹ

@PaulWhite @Andriy should add it in his answer.

Paul White

Ta

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik were you talking with evan yesterday about sqlcmd?

Paul White

15:03

Hasn't that been rewritten in Python, json, and Q#?

sp_BlitzErik

@gbn just regular use i suppose, i mostly made changes around logging and added checks for database existence and accessibility before running secondary commands.

@Lamak vaguely, why?

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik nothing important, just wanted to ask you if you had tried the preview of mssql-cli

sp_BlitzErik

not yet, no

Paul White

I did, briefly. Seems better than sqlcmd in several ways, but not my cup of tea.

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik ah, ok, thanks

Paul White

15:08

On the upside, I now have Python for Windows installed.

Lamak

@PaulWhite not mine either, but a colleague needs to use a command line client, and wanted to know if this would be better

Paul White

I will admit to becoming slightly bored with preview/alpha releases

Like delivering Notepad and asking if it would make a good Word replacement some day

Lamak

@PaulWhite do you think that notepad would make a good Word replacement in the future?

Paul White

That's a poor comparison, but then my country is bad at similes.

We're slack as.

@Lamak Needs more quantum.

Lamak

it does

Paul White

15:13

and AI

Lamak

of course

sp_BlitzErik

@PaulWhite where are you going with python?

or was it a byproduct of installing something else?

Lamak

15:27

@sp_BlitzErik I now have a hat

sp_BlitzErik

fake hat

Lamak

naah

Andriy M

@PaulWhite and @yper-trollᵀᴹ Entering waters slightly out of my depths there. Hopefully my attempt doesn't sound too amateurish.

Forrest

@JoeObbish Cool!

Gonsalu

15:57

@sp_BlitzErik required for mssql-cli

Evan Carroll

18:06

I'm on mssql-cli

Lamak

18:18

@EvanCarroll how is it working?

sp_BlitzErik

better than your fake hat

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik why are you insulting my great hat?

I just didn't want to use the same you are using ;)

sp_BlitzErik

you don't even have a robot

Lamak

@sp_BlitzErik but if I had, I would give it a hat that fits...

sp_BlitzErik

it doesn't have to fit in zero gravity, earthling

Lamak

18:26

doesn't sound like a very useful hat to use in zero gravity either

sp_BlitzErik

what do you know about zero gravity

you don't even have a front balcony

Lamak

even worse, you don't even have an apartment in chile, dude

how lame is that?

sp_BlitzErik

only because my checks keep getting cashed by an evil chicken down there

Lamak

you lost me with that one....but our chickens are kind of evil sometimes

sp_BlitzErik

you'd get it if you understood zero gravity

man

Lamak

18:32

you may have a point...

Evan Carroll

@Lamak way better than the sqlcmd

@Lamak a really solid improvement.

@Lamak the days of GO are over.

Lamak

@EvanCarroll I was actually gonna tell you about it if I saw you here

Evan Carroll

18:52

daaaaaww, thanks for thinking of me!

@sp_BlitzErik see, @Lamak loves me.

sp_BlitzErik

i don't recall that ever being a point of contention

is this a feeble attempt to arouse my jealousy?

Evan Carroll

You don't have to be jealous, you're still on the totem pole on a rung between pineapple Lamak and Pineapple Pizza.

You don't have to be jealous, you're still on the totem pole on a rung between Lamak and Pineapple Pizza.

@AndriyM I enjoy taking things apart, software is something I can break that doesn't cost me anything. =) I also run my own mssql/mysql/postgresql environment on my laptop for answering questions

@AndriyM actually, at this point I'm more interested in Drawbridge than the database.

sp_BlitzErik

19:08

check out this bourgeois scum with his PRIVATE PROPERTY

Evan Carroll

personal property*

This prole scum gotta get some coffee. I just owned some SQL Server users in Overwatch, and now I'm going to take apart their Frankenstein.

Don't actually know if they were SQL Server users. Didn't ask. Seems likely though.

sp_BlitzErik

were they pessimistic by default or something?

Joe Obbish

19:33

@sp_BlitzErik Would you like some PEPPER to go along with your SALT?

sp_BlitzErik

i'm a hash man

but i appreciate your concern for my seasoning

Joe Obbish

🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂

one day that'll be a salt shaker emoji

you'll need to use your imagination for now

sp_BlitzErik

19:52

🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂🧂

one day that'll be crushing loneliness when you've let me down too many times

for now you'll have to use what's left of your cold, cold heart

Joe Obbish

good thing I haven't let you down yet

Evan Carroll

@sp_BlitzErik No, their nicknames had [] surrounding them, and I told them that wasn't an ansi-compliant quote character, and that visually it was supremely awkward. They didn't care.

@sp_BlitzErik I figured [OrionZ] was certainly a SQL Server DBA

sp_BlitzErik

@EvanCarroll without a schema prefix? maybe a jr. dba.

Evan Carroll

I wonder why Microsoft kept PAL closed source

hot2use

20:15

@EvanCarroll probably just their team tag. Most games use [] to denote the team tag.

Tom V

@EvanCarroll wal or pal?

Evan Carroll

PAL

their DrawBridge abstraction to run Windows applications on Linux

Tom V

The log analysis thing?

Evan Carroll

(how SQL Server runs on Linux)

Library OS/DrawBridge/Platform Abstractoin Layer

Tom V

I was thinking of pal.codeplex.com

The point is nonsensical either way

Evan Carroll

20:20

What point?

Tom V

They decide what they open source

Evan Carroll

so questioning their decision is nonsensical?

Tom V

Their customers vote with their wallets. Why would someone whining in a chat room effect them in any way

Evan Carroll

How can customers vote on a decision that they haven't went to the market with?

Tom V

They don't vote on each issue separately but the company as a whole

Evan Carroll

20:25

And, moreover why are you being so adversarial with me? All that I'm saying, is that if I was Microsoft I would want people to develop native applications that ran on Windows and to endure a performance hit when they ran those applications elsewhere. That's what DrawBridge does.

As compared to the hardware virtualization which results in everyone taking the same hit, or even worse cross-platform libraries that result in a worse experience for the customers of the products and the developers.

Tom V

I'm not adversial but OK have it your way

Hats fine by me

Evan Carroll

And pretending like Microsoft is subject to any form of democracy is a farcical act.

(aside from all technical merits)

Tom V

You are missing the point

Deliberately, if you ask me

Evan Carroll

I'm not sure what your point is -- my point was that it was a bad business decision.

Tom V

Exactly my point

Evan Carroll

20:33

Ah, then good point.

Tom V

You don't get to decide or judge their business decisions

Customers and shareholders do

Evan Carroll

That is absolutely not true in any sense.

Tom V

Ok

Max Vernon

nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/04/16/…

^^^ corporations hold a fiduciary duty to do what will benefit the shareholders most. It's a legal obligation.

swasheck

oh hey. hats

gbn

20:58

@EvanCarroll It wants people using their code and tools. If the price is to contribute to OSS then so be it.

That is, have you ever tried to get IBM WebSphere Kerberos SSO working against Windows AD? Or, in another world, I compile something OSS from MS to run on Linux and it just works

Evan Carroll

No, I have gotten Samba with Kerebos to work against Windows AD in the distant past.

gbn

Better they kill Java and become the platform independent language of choice. We've had mono.net for years: Unity tools used to run

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