The Factory Floor

Gryphon

00:02

Hey @James, this question contains a spoiler. I'm not entirely sure what to do about it, maybe you could help?

Hosch250

This one can.

They gave it emotions.

Or maybe it gave itself them.

Gryphon

This is why one does not allow an AI to rewrite any part of itself.

Ever.

FoxElemental

00:42

@Gryphon You know how spoiler formatting works, right?

Oh, and I see you found my welcome comment script :)

Gryphon

@Fox, yes I did, and yes I do know how spoiler formatting works. The only problem is, the spoiler in this case is vital the question making sense.

FoxElemental

ah

I see.

And I'm glad you like the script :)

Gryphon

00:57

My typical script didn't include Meta, Sandbox, or JBH's Worldbuilding Shock post links, so your one is better :)

And hello, @bruglesco! I'm glad you decided to come back here.

bruglesco

@Gryphon Im glad to be back. How are you this evening

Gryphon

Not too bad. How are you?

bruglesco

good myself

just looking for chat while I browse the interwebs

Gryphon

Browsing the interwebs is always fun.

bruglesco

yah usually

what are you up to (besides chatting with me?)

Gryphon

01:09

Reading a web serial

bruglesco

nice. anything from the people over here on WB?

Gryphon

Nah, although I found a link to it here originally.

Here is a link.

Umm, that's weird. That formatting usually works.

There we go, that made it work.

bruglesco

Looks interesting. I'm definitely gonna check it out.

Shalvenay

hey there @bruglesco

bruglesco

@Shalvenay hey! How are you tonight?

Shalvenay

01:16

doing alright here, as for you?

bruglesco

Good

Shalvenay

01:34

haven't gotten up to too much worldbuilding, although I think I may start in on some conlanging at some point

bruglesco

I haven't done worldbuilding since HS and it was all terrible. I really want to start again though so here I am.

Shalvenay

ah

Secret

12:05

2 days ago, by Gryphon

@FoxElemental I think I've invented a new term. "Liquid Science." For when sci-fi manages to break every single law in physics.

Why stop at liquid, boil that and make it break every single law in physics and narration

Gaseous science ftw

[Random]

Given correlation =/= causation

It follows that unexplainable correlation =/= magic

Consider this:

Let a phenomenon such that when a red ball is placed in the park, exactly 6 seconds later a yellow ball appears in the fountain

This is clearly reproducible, and thus it can be utilised on demand

While its mechanism can never be found, occams razor reduces that to simply a fixed correlation in time between the location of the red and yellow ball

In fact, we can go further than that: Suppose the phenomenon has a 70% chance of making a yellow ball appear when performing the above. Then the statistics is reproducible, thus it is science

Hosch250

@Secret Then someone gets curious and puts a yellow ball in the park. Oops; I guess they won't be doing that again.

Secret

I guess that might suggests it will be possible to have reproducible phenomenon that is not explainable to science. One way it can avoid science is for every new procedure, it generates an outcome that cannot be predicted beforehand by any systematic model, thus the "science" of such phenomenon reduces to tracking a huge (possibly endless) table of possible inputs and outputs

Hosch250

I'm convinced that if someone has access to sufficiently powerful magic, they'll blow themselves up before they figure it out.

Secret

3 months ago I was investigating about Clarke's 3rd law violating magic with other users, and so far our conclusion is that those we managed to conceive so far are very unpredictable, not as well controlled as harry potter magic

It is unclear if unpredictable magic is controlled enough to wrote stories around them

aitía

hello

Secespitus

12:19

@aitía Good afternoon

Bellerophon

@Secret How does that 'avoid science'?

@aitía Greetings.

Secespitus

@aitía Welcome to the Factory Floor, WorldBuilding.SE's main chat room

Secret

because you cannot completely document the list of all possible outcomes given all possible inputs. Everything that is new may give a new or old outcome

The outcome is literally unpredictable until it happens

Bellerophon

Does the same input always give the same output?

Secespitus

@Secret Isn't that basically just chaos theory?

Secret

12:21

@Bellerophon Well, ver 1 does give consistent input output pairs, thus that will be reproducible to science, albeit the theory that describe it is identical to basically tabulating all pairs and no deeper explanation

aitía

@Secespitus Thank you

Secret

@Secespitus Chaos theory is a lot more predictable than unpredictable itself: For example, if there are attractors, the dynamics will more or less gravitate towards it in some fractal fashion. Also for any chaotic system, if the time frame is short enough, you can still predict the dynamics to sufficient accuracy

Secespitus

@Secret Doesn't mean you can document every possible scenario as there may very well just be far too many input factors to account for, which could also apply to your magic system.

Bellerophon

@Secret Still can be studied scientifically.

Secret

I think what I want to say is that it is possible to have magic with chaotic dynamics, but no chaos theory phenomenon can be magic (to be checked)

Bellerophon

12:25

Someone would set up a database of input/output pairs that have been tested and shown to work.

Someone would test the sensitivity of the input output pairs.

Secespitus

@Bellerophon InputPair1 - Death; Inputpair2 - Death; InputPair3 - Let's-Not-Describe-This-One...

Secret

:Cthulu intensifies:

Secespitus

@Secret You would have to write that in this creepy vertical font.

324

Q: How would Facebook Sysadmins prevent the summoning of Cthulhu?

So, I've got this idea for a short story. Some researchers find a forgotten manuscript hidden locked away in an ancient tomb. While they are working on it one of them pastes part of the text into a Facebook announcement and Facebook automatically translates it. This links Facebook to the nether r...

Secret

At the opposite extreme you have every inputpair producing something new every time, but then it gets so unpredictable that you are not sure whether you are dealing with magic, or just a load of unrelated coincidences that has no rhyme or reason or pattern

->let alone trying to use it

Secespitus

@Secret Maybe the timestamp is simply an important input factor :D

Secret

12:33

That's true, but I guess really the only "theory" you can come up to explain it is "it is different everytime red and yellow balls are placed together", and experimentally you only have a growing list of potentially bizarre phenomenon whenever the balls are placed together

Also: C̴̱̘t̮h͉͖͞u̶͎͕̦̻̮̯l̡̦̱̞̫̺̺ͅṵ̢̬̙̜͕̳̹ ̩̣̞ì̮n͔͎͈̖̜̼͡t͙͇̲͢e͘n̜̮̺̟̘͇̪͜s̵͕͚̭i̸̠̺̪͔f͙̰̥i̙e͔̱̘͙̥̹ͅs̛̳̻̟̲͕̘

Secespitus

Just a bug in your matrix. Write a ticket and wait for the service technician to reset your magic.exe. And no modding next time!

@Secret Now we're talking (to the Great Old Ones)!

Secret

surely they must have a better way to communicate without melting our brains

Bellerophon

Always make an external backup before casting eldritch summoning rituals.

4

Secespitus

182

Q: How can a Horror from Beyond Reason reliably communicate with mortals?

Jimmy is an Eldritch Monstrosity. Jimmy has a Red Ball. Jimmy wants someone to play with him and his Red Ball. All of Jimmy's friends are busy trying to Overturn the Cosmic Order and bring Chaos to all of Existence. Jimmy thinks that humans will play with him and his Red Ball. Jimmy once ...

communication horror

@Bellerophon As long as your clone spell is working properly and the clone had enough time to grow everything should be fine.

Secret

Anyway, one reason I love thinking about how to get pure magic is it really trains our brain to deal with thinking about the unpredictable and the unprecendented

Trying to conceive something more "random" than randomness itself is very hard exercise

and once you got there, you will be amazed to see how well behaved quantum mechanics and chaos theory is

[Random hierarchy out of nowhere]

(Physics <> Magic) < Mysteries < Unknown < Unknown unknown < unknown unknown unknown ... <

Absolute (philosophy)

In philosophy, the concept of The Absolute, also known as The (Unconditioned) Ultimate, The Wholly Other, The Supreme Being, The Absolute/Ultimate Reality, and other names, is the thing, being, entity, power, force, reality, presence, law, principle, etc. that possesses maximal ontological status, existential ranking, existential greatness, or existentiality. In layman's terms, this is the one that is, in one way or another, the greatest, truest, or most real being. There are many conceptions of The Absolute in various fields and subjects, such as philosophy, religion, spiritual traditions,...

<> because we have the following relation:

A corollary of Clarke's 3rd law says every sufficiently understood magic is physics

Thus magic is technically a subset of physics given infinite time of understanding

meanwhile, some phenomenon reminds of physics and some less reminds of physics

thus perhaps magic and physics actually contains each other as categories

(Disclaimer: What I said above is either false or not applicable if the ontology does not contain some Absolute Being)

Also to better understand how mysteries are defined above, I basically took inspiration from harry potter that there are beings and things that are a mystery even to the wizarding world

I don't really know what separates between mysteries and magic (if any)

Hosch250

12:58

@Secret Mysteries are murder with physics. Magic is murder with unknown physics.

Secret

13:09

24

Q: Can crime still exist if mages can see the past?

In my world one of the branches of magic is Sight; foresight, farsight and hindsight. Foresight is basically the gift of prophecy. It's limited in that the world doesn't exist in a fixed timeline, so you can only see possible or probable futures. A very powerful Seer is dangerous and can see wel...

magic crime

6

Q: In a world with magic, would thieves be more cautious?

In various shows, movies, books, etc, thieves often intend to steal from wizards or, if they're lucky, from a treasure horde of long dead royalty or such and, almost as often, either set off magical traps or pick up some ancient artifact that has some adverse effect on them or entire lands. I wo...

reality-check magic

non magical ways to solve magical problems is grossly underrated as The Magician shown

Hosch250

@AndyD273 We now know the 3rd challenge.

My idea is, we set off the blast under water with a phylactery, collect the mineral, and create a new phylactery to enhance the shadows.

Secret

9

Q: How can elemental magic aid forensic in a magical murder?

The ideal murder weapon is probably an icicle, because then you can melt the evidence Well, it's far from perfect. At least when magic kicks in. The story is set in this modern world, with elemental magic added in (fire, earth, wind, water). Magic users can manipulate their element (move, c...

magic crime

Hosch250

Maybe the generic phylactery just suppresses the shadows, and each person must create their own phylactery tuned to them to enhance it.

Secret

"Uses of Magic-Related Knowledge in CSI" is such an interesting point of view I never though about

I guess, someone with deep understanding of "insert concept" will be able to see how it is used in all sorts of context, thus a degree of intuition that is not present from systematic study

Hosch250

However, perhaps A) Bremdag's phylactery can be placed at a weak point such that it brings down enough rubble for the others to use as well, or the others can use their shadows to break some off.

Secret

13:14

My magic specialty is the Overlooked Neutral things

Hosch250

I mean, if the shadow picked up a large rock (or few) and smashed at the lode several times, some would come off.

Hosch250

13:58

@MonicaCellio I just found your sisters series. I'm quite liking it. I'll need to wait until after work to finish it, though.

Bellerophon

So the challenge requires smashing a phylactery but earlier someone said no one had ever lost a phylactery before. That doesn't make sense.

It would make more sense that the fire slug slime caused the explosion and was triggered by contact with a charged phylactery or something.

Hosch250

@Bellerophon Sure.

I was thinking the slime might be used as a trigger.

Umm, what's the chemists' word again?

Ah, catalyst.

James

@Aify As a fellow cat avatar I will not forget your kitty meow or ever.

HDE 226868

14:17

@James I thought you were an otter the first time I saw your avatar but didn't get a good look. An otter trying to open a clam or something.

Hosch250

@HDE226868 I thought they floated on their backs to do that, and banged the clam on a rock on their chests, like that Disney guy who grew up with the apes.

HDE 226868

They do, I think. Maybe James can't swim. . .

Hosch250

How'd he catch the clam then?

HDE 226868

Maybe it migrated. It could have been carried by an African swallow.

Bellerophon

Pick it off the shore at low tide.

Secespitus

14:22

He threatened to smite it.

Hosch250

@Secespitus Seems to me being eaten is essentially the same as being smote.

Or would it be smitten?

Journeyman Geek

14:37

smitten is an entirely different kind of getting hit over the head

3

smote

James

@HDE226868 Heh. I do like otters. They are little, adorable and vicious.

FoxElemental

@Aify What can we do to make you stay?

Hosch250

@JourneymanGeek OK, well, being smitten may or may not be as bad as being eaten. I've yet to decide.

James

@FoxElemental Burninate the countryside?

FoxElemental

@James . . . . you mean set tags on fire?

Journeyman Geek

14:40

not as bad. Unless yer into vore.

Hosch250

@James Sweden's busy doing that already.

FoxElemental

Funny . . . . there's a song that goes "Queriendo convertir los campos en cuidad/Mezclando el cielo con el mar."

James

@JourneymanGeek This is brilliant.

Journeyman Geek

;)

FoxElemental

Except in this case

James

14:41

@FoxElemental go on youtube and look up Trogdor the Burninator

You will smile.

FoxElemental

It's "Mezclando los campos con el fuego," which doesn't work as well in a lyrical context

technically

it should be

"Quemando los campos con el fuego," but that turns it from a love song to a declaration of war.

Hosch250

@FoxElemental Ahh, that's better :)

Because after all, love is war.

FoxElemental

Oh god and now I have the song stuck in my head

Do we have any questions about earworms?

James

@FoxElemental Another reason to go watch trogdor.

Hosch250

Both parties conquer the other's love, and both vanquish other contestants.

Whether that's literally physically or not is up for grabs :P

> First you throw the knife; your opponents, poof, they are gone. Then you sing the serenade; the lady, she is yours.

FoxElemental

14:44

Remind me never to take relationship advice from you.

Hosch250

LOL.

James

HDE 226868

And that didn't make it into the site design? Pity.

Journeyman Geek

@James funny thing is....

he used to mod on SU :)

and was part of a SE wide meme

We miss troggy :(

James

15:07

@JourneymanGeek As in the guy that created Trogdor or just someone using Trogdor as an avatar?

Journeyman Geek

sadly the latter

or trogdor himself who knows

James

I would have voted him Emperor Mod for Life of Everything.

Journeyman Geek

oh he retired

mods are after all for 'life'

FoxElemental

There seem to be deep and long periods of respectful silence.

I'm going to say "boring!" and interrupt them.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I am in a lot of chatrooms.

And working

James

15:20

@FoxElemental I am contemplating the meaning of fudge

@Secespitus I see you over there.

Journeyman Geek

by eating it?

FoxElemental

@James You mean fudge in the confectionery sense or the cursing sense? I find it can often be in both at the same time

Journeyman Geek

Fudge! I fudged the fudge!

FoxElemental

That totally belongs in The Frying Pan ^^

AndyD273

@Hosch250 Interesting. Sort of like a reverse phylactery?

FoxElemental

15:21

@JourneymanGeek Exactly

Hosch250

Kind of.

FoxElemental

Totally a Seasoned Advice style of comment

Hosch250

Kind of like how a Jedi needs to make their own light saber.

Journeyman Geek

only they make their own fudge?

FoxElemental

lotsa stars

Speaking of stars, @Gryphon get over here so you can say something and we can star it!

Secespitus

15:25

@James That can't be. I am hidden so well...

AndyD273

@Hosch250 Any problem with them running into Hemdul and Jiralo again during this challenge (since they are/could be ahead of them)? Maybe between three explosions they can get enough mineral to make 5

Journeyman Geek

@FoxElemental I have the outspoken badge here I think

and a it other places ;)

Hosch250

@JourneymanGeek I'm working toward it.

Journeyman Geek

lol

I've been on chat a while

and talk a lot

Hosch250

I think I got that one on CR in a chain.

We had some impressive chains for a while, but we don't do them much anymore.

FoxElemental

15:30

@JourneymanGeek Really :)?

me too

Journeyman Geek

@FoxElemental last I checked, third chattiest person historically on SE chat ;)

FoxElemental

WOAH

I mean

Congrats!

Journeyman Geek

and one of the top two is the spam detection bot

naw, just means I talk a lot

FoxElemental

Nods weakly

Hosch250

One of my acquaintances' chatbots is gaining on you.

Secespitus

15:32

@FoxElemental You gotta step up your game ;)

Hosch250

She monitors SO comments recommending migrations and GitHub activity on certain repos.

Aify

@FoxElementalRelax, I haven't left yet.

FoxElemental

@JourneymanGeek Why sub woof but never superwoof?

Hosch250

@Aify Please let us know before you do so we can put the tag on the chatroom :)

Journeyman Geek

lol

its a small dog joke

FoxElemental

15:33

@Aify exactly. That's why I'm asking

Journeyman Geek

also a small dog afraid of heights joke

Hosch250

Also, a subwoofer joke. As if small dogs aren't loud enough :(

Journeyman Geek

@Hosch250 its a joke on multiple levels

FoxElemental

no. Because it's only subwoof.

silence

Get it?

silence

Okay, bad pun

Hosch250

Really loud silence.

FoxElemental

15:36

Is there an echo in here?

Hosch250

Is there an echo in here?

Apparently yes.

Feeds 4026

15:47

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

how can chi be used to preserve a man's fertility? Chi is the energy of life that allows the body to continue its natural functions. A person who controls their chi can focus it in certain areas of the body, such as arms or organs, to make them more efficient. They can increase their strength, s...

Monica Cellio

@Hosch250 thanks! I really need to finish that. The final part is sitting half-written on my computer...

Aify

16:58

@Hosch250 I'll make sure to ping you when/if I do

@FoxElemental I just monitor question quality.

Bellerophon

@Hosch250 @AndyD273 I added a timeline on the story meta to help people keep track of who is where.

Hosch250

@Bellerophon They are having a pretty hectic time if this is all happening in sequential days.

I imagined they had some travel days between the obstacles.

But still a good timeline.

Bellerophon

As far as I can tell it all seems to be one day after the other.

Hosch250

I thought that's because we just didn't cover the boring days :)

Bellerophon

Maybe.

Hosch250

17:02

Although, they could be doing it in one quick sprint.

Bellerophon

The raft journey probably did take a few days from what was written.

Hosch250

Especially if they are trying to be prime contenders.

Hosch250

17:21

FYI, @JourneymanGeek: Smitten = past participle of smite.

Where Smote = past of smite.

I think usage would be "I have (been) smitten" and "I was smote".

Although, I'm somewhat weak on my participles ATM.

James

@FoxElemental Confectionary.

FoxElemental

I'm back

@James ah. What kind?

Chocolate?

If you're not thinking about chocolate fudge, you need help.

Chocolate, right?

FoxElemental

18:10

Hewwo?

AndyD273

18:42

@Bellerophon Looks good. I kinda thought it was one day after the next, though yeah the raft journey may have taken more than a day. We haven't really specified how big this trial area is. Maybe once the story is done we can plot out a map

Mithrandir24601

Wow. science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2018/07/24/science.aar7268

James

20:08

@FoxElemental Yes, obviously. Though there is something to be said for the zebra milk/white chocolate setup too.

HDE 226868

@Mithrandir24601 Yeah, that's big.

Also, the ESO had a similarly-exciting announcement about a completely unrelated subject: eso.org/public/usa/announcements/ann18058

Hosch250

@HDE226868 Hey, it only says it was a successful test. Not what it tested or whether it supports/disproves it.

HDE 226868

@Hosch250 The paper has more details on that.

Statistical fits of gravitational redshift dramatically support general relativity over Newtonian gravity.

Hosch250

LOL, we already knew Newtonian gravity didn't work in those situations.

Gryphon

20:54

@FoxElemental Hmm, maybe I could say something about "gaseous science".

Let's define gaseous science as: "When sci-fi breaks every law of physics in the same scene". And plasma science is: "When sci-fi breaks every law of physics at exactly the same time."

2

FoxElemental

22:37

yep

Gryphon

23:10

Has anyone else noticed that there seem to be a lot of new users today? I mean, I've already got 6 reviews on the New Users queue.

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