The Frying Pan

Jay

12:33

@ElendilTheTall OH you're alive

we didnt see you for a while and jojo was getting worried

Cerberus

17:02

@Jay But Jolene hasn't been online!

Then again, neither have many of us...

AFK

derobert

17:23

@Jefromi Well, I normally use the seeds too. Its for a big batch (~5qt) of chili.

@ElendilTheTall ooh, nice. But I don't see it scheduled on PBS here yet :-(

Apparently it takes a month for PBS to get it across the Atlantic...

Cerberus

17:39

Stupid copyrights.

Jefromi

17:56

@derobert Still pretty hot! But not as crazy as a batch of salsa.

Faheem Mitha

18:16

Slow day today.

Has anyone here watched Sherlock? Apparently a big hit in the UK. Though I have no direct experience of that.

Series 4 is supposed to come out at some point.

Cerberus

Yes, it is quite enjoyable.

Even though it is set in a modern setting.

@FaheemMitha When?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Dunno. WP implies 2016.

I suppose the people making it have a better idea.

Cerberus

Ah.

Faheem Mitha

18:34

BC really inhabits the role. It's like it was written for him. Though of course, it wasn't.

Jay

20:08

0

Q: Why does Win32_PingStatus returns unavailable server but pinging manually works

I have a excel workbook with a list of hostnames. I am currently using the code below to get the IP of each host name and change the cell color to red and green depending on the status of the server. This code works 99% of the time but on several occasions a server will show as unavailable. But w...

How do people over at StackOverflow handle all their volume

my post within 2 minutes was already on the second page

and since its not in the front, its still only at 3 views.

Its super frustrating lol

Stan Shunpike

Hello chat!

Jay

Hello

Stan Shunpike

So I've never been to an Italian restaurant before. And I'm going to one in a week and I'm looking through the menu. There's a lot of stuff! What are some can't miss dishes most Italian restaurants serve that I should pay attention to?

Jay

@StanShunpike Stuffed mushrooms

I love those so much

Stan Shunpike

Oooo interesting i have never had that

user116848

20:19

hello!

Jay

@Arrowfar Hey hey

user116848

Hey!

Jay

Is that you in your profile picture? If so, you are a handsome bastard

user116848

haha!

user116848

No that's not me.

user116848

20:22

But closish ;-)

Jay

Haha ok

user116848

How are you?

user116848

It is quiet here these days.

Jay

Pretty good

yea its been pretty quiet the past couple of days

I think because jolenealaska and elendilthetall isnt constantly here

user116848

Yeah they are the heart and soul of this chat.

Jay

20:27

haha, I actually have to leave.

ttyl

user116848

See ya!

Faheem Mitha

@Jay I think people follow individual tags.

Well, some people do.

Jefromi

@Jay Yeah, people generally look for questions in tags they care about, especially recent and unanswered ones.

It looks like in the excel tag, even things with answers often only have 10-30 views.

Competitive tags get answers really fast.

Cindy

20:44

@ElendilTheTall They say timing is everything! :)

ElendilTheTall

@Cindy people who sell watches do, certainly...

Cindy

i'm getting ready to start dinner and decided to jump on for a sec.

@ElendilTheTall I wish. NO call yet.

ElendilTheTall

patience is a virtue

(so say the people who sell egg timers)

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Then I must be the most virtuous person ever! ;)

How goes it?

ElendilTheTall

put that on your resume!

Cindy

20:48

It's probably in there somewhere. If not, it's definitely in my cover letters.

ElendilTheTall

hmm

so what's for dinner?

Cindy

Chx and rice dish. Somewhat similar to jollof rice and chicken, but with my own twists.

Faheem Mitha

Hi @Cindy. Waiting for someone to call?

@ElendilTheTall How is the IMM today?

ElendilTheTall

spooky - I had chicken and rice today as well

@FaheemMitha imm....

I. M. M.

nope, lost me

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall International Man of Mystery.

I thought I'd shorten it for convenience.

Make a note of it.

Cindy

20:54

@FaheemMitha Yes. Hopefully the hiring manager for the job that I was pre-screend for last week.

Faheem Mitha

Anyone else found the DLF in "Prince Caspian" distracting?

Points if you even know what I'm talking about.

@Cindy So, what is the status?

ElendilTheTall

dear little friend?

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall Was that just a good guess? And yes, correct.

Or you've got a good memory...

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall Chx and rice seems to work for my taste buds today. Especially with a little spice. But what a coincidence!

ElendilTheTall

@FaheemMitha that would have to be a fucking amazing guess

Faheem Mitha

20:56

I occasionally eat chicken and rice too. Clearly, supernatural forces are at work.

@ElendilTheTall True. So, good memory, then?

Plus, of course, having read the book in question.

Cindy

@FaheemMitha Just waiting to get a call for an interview. Fingers still crossed. It's a job I would love to have.

Faheem Mitha

@Cindy Waiting sucks.

Or, as Orwell once put it "It's the waiting".

Cindy

@FaheemMitha I couldn't have said it better!

ElendilTheTall

@FaheemMitha not a bad one at least

Faheem Mitha

Points if you remember the scene in question.

It's probably just me, but I found that DLF thing really distracting.

When I was reading the book, I mean.

ElendilTheTall

20:59

I'm not a huge fan of Lewis anyway tbh

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall Me neither.

Not at all really. But I have pretty much have the Narnian novels memorized, I read them so often as a child.

And they aren't so long, or so complex.

@Cindy I recall you waiting for a job for an interview last week (I think). Same one or different one?

Cindy

I'm off to get started. Out of saffron so a sub will have to do. Catch you guys later. @ElendilTheTall, don't get too busy for us! ;)

@FaheemMitha Same. I talked to the recruiter on Friday and she told me to give some time.

ElendilTheTall

@Cindy i promise nothing!

Faheem Mitha

@Cindy Ohh. Been there. Really sucks.

Well, keep us posted.

Cindy

@ElendilTheTall You hurt me! Knife deep to the heart. ;)

@FaheemMitha I'll keep you up to date. Hopefully with good news! :)

Faheem Mitha

21:03

@ElendilTheTall you hurt @Cindy's feelings! Naughty.

@Cindy Fingers crossed.

Cindy

@FaheemMitha Thanks!

ElendilTheTall

@FaheemMitha I naturally prefer his mate's work

Cindy

I really must go now. Catch you guys later! :) I will await @ElendilTheTall's nicer words. ;)

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall Me too.

ElendilTheTall

@cindy the minutes will seem like hours 'til you return

Faheem Mitha

21:07

For one thing, the Narnian books are really racist, in a fairly ugly way.

@ElendilTheTall you sweet talker, you.

And I'm not really that sensitive to racism most of the time. I can even read Edgar Wallace and people like that without throwing up. Or, I could.

ElendilTheTall

racist, and with allegory as subtle as a sledgehammer to the nuts

Faheem Mitha

@ElendilTheTall Yes. But very very popular. Go figure.

ElendilTheTall

no accounting for taste

Faheem Mitha

I've read quite a number of people say they wanted to go there. Weird. It never really felt like a real place to me. Plus magic sounds scary.

I don't think I'd want to live in a place where magic is real. The real world is bad enough.

But the recent series "The Magicians" actually did a fairly good riff on that. The first novel being the best.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha How so? I don't remember.

What races?

I don't remember any African or East-Asian people from the story?

I do remember how very Christian it was.

Faheem Mitha

21:21

@Cerberus The most notable example is the Calormenes.

Calormen is a country neighboring Narnia, which is sort of Middle Eastern like.

But in a very ugly and exaggerated way.

That's not the only example, but it's one of the more obvious ones.

The Narnia books aren't long, but you could write a lengthy essay about racism and sexism in them. Though more racism, I'd say.

It is curious that they are so very popular. They're actually quite strange books.

As I said above, "The Magicians" does a fairly good job riffing off them. Though I'm not aware of anything else, at least in English, that does.

Cerberus

22:32

@FaheemMitha Ugly in what what? And how is it related to race? And how does it propagate the message that other races are bad?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Read "The Horse and His Boy".

Cerberus

I have read some Narnia books, but I remember little, except the stupid closet, the ice queen, and the stupid Christian lion.

They did not make a big impression on me, as a child.

As opposed to Tolkien, Vance, and many others.

Dracht, Beckman.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Hmm, I didn't think many people read Vance.

@Cerberus Lewis's racism would be complicated to explain, and would require many words. And you might not agree with me, anyway.

Cerberus

23:04

@FaheemMitha Why not! Vance is the best!

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus I'm sure Vance is fine. I just didn't think he was that popular. Though I might be wrong.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha I have to say, whenever American media are up in arms about racism, I am often very sceptical, except when it is about the police.

I know many people who know Vance.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Racism is real. And a big problem in lots of places.

Cerberus

His only flaw is that his characters are always very weak.

@FaheemMitha That doesn't contradict me.

Faheem Mitha

But it can sometimes be hard to distinguish from general nastiness.

@Cerberus You mean personally? Have you met him?

Cerberus

23:06

For one thing, many people use racism when it isn't really about race, but some other form of discrimination.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus No, it doesn't.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha Oh, no.

Faheem Mitha

It was intended as a comment.

Cerberus

So are my lines always.

Faheem Mitha

By "know Vance" perhaps you mean "have read Vance".

Cerberus

23:07

Alas, no.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Pardon?

Cerberus

Alas, I did not know him personally.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Well, different forms of nastiness can blur into each other.

Cerberus

But it makes no sense to call it racism.

Faheem Mitha

For example, when I was living in the US, people would occasionally be nasty to me. For some reason blacks were particularly unpleasant. Did I know why they were nasty? No.

@Cerberus Makes no sense to call what racism?

Cerberus

23:09

"Different forms of nastiness".

Racism is when you treat someone unfairly because he is of the Caucasoid, Negroid, or Mongoloid race.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Well, that's my point. People might be nasty towards someone because they are racist. Or maybe for some other reason. How can you know?

Unless they tell you, of course. But that is rare in my experience.

@Cerberus Racism is because you treat someone differently because of how he looks, isn't it? Practically speaking.

He or she, that is.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha Yes, that is a problem.

@FaheemMitha I disagree: it has to be about race, the 19th-century concept.

Faheem Mitha

Color of skin, typically. Which is ironical, since humans are so similar genetically. I believe the genes that cause the characteristic differentiations in appearance are quite insignificant.

Cerberus

They are.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus 19th century concept?

Cerberus

23:12

The whole notion of race is rather old-fashioned.

Yes.

Or maybe 18th century.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus If you say so.

I personally don't think that paki-bashers and such are motivated by anything as sophisticated as a 18th or 19th century concept.

Cerberus

I don't know that genre.

And I don't know whether that's racism or some other form of discrimination.

But the idea that humanity can be divided into three or four races is an old pseudo-scientific concept.

Faheem Mitha

Anyway, racism is literature is often quite plain and visible. Edgar Wallace is today almost forgotten, but a century ago he was one of the world's best selling authors, at least in English. And his books are very clearly and visibly racist.

@Cerberus I see. Is that what you meant?

@Cerberus What genre?

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha Does he treat black or yellow or red people badly, unfairly?

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Who, Wallace? No, he quite plainly says things along the lines of "uppity Nigger" and suchlike (in his narrative voice).

Cerberus

23:16

If you write a book suggesting that e.g. black people are genetically stupid, then that is certainly false, but is it really racist, when it is your earnest belief and you wish them all the best?

Faheem Mitha

He wrote a series about Africa - Sanders of the River et. al. Real ugly stuff.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha That is the 18/19th-century concept of races. And treating people unfairly based on those concepts is racism in my book.

@FaheemMitha "Paki-bashing".

Faheem Mitha

My father used to like reading pulp for some reasons (he was a strange man) so I was exposed to some of that. Like Nero Wolfe.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha And does he treat black people badly and unfairly by doing so? If so, then it is racist. It depends on context, obviously.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus That's not a genre. It's just what they call what thugs do in the UK to people from the sub-continent. Have you not come across the term?

Cerberus

23:18

Never.

I am not familiar with the phaenomenon, nor with the idea.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus Well, his attitudes are clearly racist. White people are superior, Africans are inferior and should know their place, and if not, it's the duty of the whites to show it to them. Etc. I'd certainly call that racism.

@Cerberus Hardly an idea.

Paki == People from the subcontinent. Bashing == Hit people over the head.

But Wallace was just intended as an example. He's a good one. I'm guessing you aren't familiar with his work, though.

Cerberus

@FaheemMitha I suppose you could call that racism, if that is really what he meant and not what people read into it (people often read anachronistically).

@FaheemMitha I am not.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus No, I think he is quite clear. But don't take my word for it. You can read his stuff yourself.

He's as clear an example of racism I can think of. Which is why I used him.

Cerberus

Very well.

Faheem Mitha

Lots of people tend to scream racism when writers use an African character who is portrayed as comical, for example. Like Hugh Lofting's Prince Bumpo.

But Lofting wasn't a racist, I don't think.

Cerberus

23:23

Yes, that is the problem.

Faheem Mitha

Edgar Wallace

Richard Horatio Edgar Wallace (1 April 1875 – 10 February 1932) was an English writer. Born into poverty as an illegitimate London child, Wallace left school at 12. He joined the army at 21 and was a war correspondent during the Second Boer War for Reuters and the Daily Mail. Struggling with debt, he left South Africa, returned to London and began writing thrillers to raise income, publishing books including The Four Just Men (1905). Drawing on time as a reporter in the Congo, covering the Belgian atrocities, Wallace serialised short stories in magazines, later publishing collections such as Sanders...

Wallace has dated very badly. I think he is little read now. I've personally never met anyone who has heard of him. Which is a little ironical, seeing as how popular he was once.

"Wallace characters such as District Commissioner Sanders can be taken to represent the values of colonial white supremacy in Africa, and now viewed as deeply racist and paternalistic. His writing has been attacked for its conception of Africans as stupid children who need a firm hand. Sanders, for example, pledges to bring 'civilisation' to "half a million cannibal folk".

George Orwell called Wallace a "bully worshipper" and "proto-fascist", though many critics conceived Wallace more as a populist writer who pandered to the market of the time."

From the WP page.

I mentioned Sanders above. That series is really, really unpleasant, but it's educational reading. It helps one understand British imperial attitudes.

According to this article, Wallace is very popular in Germany.

Cerberus

I may have heard of him, but there are so many Wallaces...

Faheem Mitha

Orwell has some good things to say about him. Google "George Orwell Edgar Wallace"

E.g. telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/essay/tribune/…

"The curious thing is that this utterly wasted life—a life of sitting almost continuously in a stuffy room and covering acres of paper with slightly pernicious nonsense—is what is called, or would have been called a few years ago, ‘an inspiring story’."

I think that deserves an LOL.

Cerberus

I agree that a reverential attitude towards famous people mainly because they're famous is sickening.

It is related to populism, as the Wikipaedia article says.

Faheem Mitha

23:38

@Cerberus That's a very common disease, especially nowadays.

Cerberus

The great bane of democracy and capitalism.

Faheem Mitha

Maybe it always was.

Cerberus

To some degree; but it is greatly amplified by democracy and capitalism.

Popularity itself is rewarded in those systems.

Faheem Mitha

Though today is seems to be more focused on show-business folk. Before it was kings and queens. I don't know whether that is progress or not.

Cerberus

Kings were very different.

Faheem Mitha

23:39

How so? Because they could kill you?

Cerberus

They were part of a political game, with many opponents.

And they had real power, yes.

Faheem Mitha

@Cerberus well, sleep time. Nice chatting with you.

Cerberus

Sleep well!

And don't dream of discrimination.

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