Electrical Engineering

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PlasmaHH

07:59

@NickAlexeev in my experience there is no protection usually

They can naturally tolerate some higher voltage due to having buck converter at the first stage, but that's it

7 hours later…

Ghanima

15:28

Howdy

Does anybody know when and how "fritzing" became a thing

... and why people think that posting Breadboard view only is a good way to educate the reader about the circuit?

Nick Alexeev

@Ghanima I've seen an introductory book about Raspberry Pi (printed by O'Reilly) which had Fritzing cartoons and no schematics.

But that's probably not where it had started.

Ghanima

I could have guessed that the Pi is source and root of the evil ;)

People seem to have a hard time understanding that they force the reader to reverse engineer a schematics from the cartoon

Shalvenay

15:57

hey there @Ghanima and @NickAlexeev

Danish ALI

16:23

any moderator here ?

Marla

@NickAlexeev..some one is seeking moderator here.

Marla

16:40

@DanishALI . . you could just post your info here. And wait for response

Ghanima

17:02

hey, Shalvenay, hey all

2 hours later…

Adam Uraynar

19:14

@Ghanima Why does it matter?

Ghanima

what do you mean?

Adam Uraynar

For Fritzing, conveys the same amount of information

Ghanima

an example

to me that does not work out without looking up the datasheets of all components involved

Adam Uraynar

was this posted in a question?

Ghanima

it requires me to count which pins are connected to what, look up the pinout, etc etc

yeah, that was posted in a question, though not at EE (I guess it would have been shot down here)

Adam Uraynar

19:21

where?

Ghanima

RPi

Adam Uraynar

I mean, it's just easier for the questioner. A while ago I had a friend with a BA in physics. And he thought that schematics require some type of skill to know

~ to know how to make or something

Ghanima

it is save to say that putting together schematics requre some skills

... and yes it is easier for the questioner but puts the burden on the (potential) answerer

Adam Uraynar

Some circuit software can show moving parts, such as a servo motor moving.

Ghanima

so... which is better

Adam Uraynar

19:25

for what?

I think of Fritzing as more of a block diagram

Ghanima

I mean, which is the better aproach, say you're looking for an answer to your problem on the internet, make things easier for yourself (the OP) or for anybody else whom you expect to provide answers for you ;)

Adam Uraynar

I'm thinking it depends on the question being asked.

I wouldn't use Fritzing for asking a question.

Either way, aren't the datasheets needed?

Ghanima

probably so, but I'd say that a certain set of issues could be determined from checking the schematics w/o referring to the datasheets

Adam Uraynar

I think you just want the pinouts

not the actual internal schematic for each part

Ghanima

sure, but again, that is the value of "real" schematics over the fritzing thing

Adam Uraynar

19:36

Technical simulations (e.g., DC sweep, Monte Carlo analysis, etc)

From something like SPICE

Ghanima

that is usually something beyond the people who ask questions at RPi

.. and it is not something I would expect

Adam Uraynar

It appears Fritzing has pinouts

Perhaps each picture "schematic" has a matching pinout like the one above, and it's just the questioner doesn't know how to see it or is being lazy.

Ghanima

I guessed it has but the users chose to not post that part

they always come up with the cartoon part

Adam Uraynar

Maybe try asking for the schematic part.

Ghanima

I know, I know ;)

Adam Uraynar

19:43

W5VO

ugh.. fritzing

Ghanima

I take it that you understand my pain

W5VO

what a waste of an image

@Ghanima If you have to use something that has frizting, I understand your pain.

Oh, I see... @AdamUraynar Frizting is garbage

It's for people who just want to be overglorified electricians instead of actually communicating the circuit

Adam Uraynar

Is there a matching schematic though, with pinouts, for every cartoon?

W5VO

@AdamUraynar If it looks like that picture, the schematic is pretty useless.

Ghanima

19:55

I think we need to make our (RPi not EE) users understand the, uhm, "shortcomings" of fritzing ;)

Adam Uraynar

How is that useless?

Ghanima

how did you get rid of it here on EE?

Adam Uraynar

Most questions don't involve blocks, such as a microcontroller

Marla

Fritzing seems to me to be instructions for point to point wiring. Much like paint by numbers.

W5VO

@AdamUraynar It doesn't follow schematic conventions, and the symbols are little more than glorified pinout diagrams.

Adam Uraynar

19:58

W5VO

A good schematic should convey how the circuit works quickly and clearly

Adam Uraynar

What schematic "convention"?

Ghanima

@W5VO that!

W5VO

That schematic is like a pre-teen's texting shortcuts... "OMG TOTS ARDI+H"

Adam Uraynar

No it's not.

The only part is the battery that's different.

W5VO

20:00

252

Q: Rules and guidelines for drawing good schematics

There are a lot of poorly drawn schematics here. A few times people have actually asked for critiques of their schematics. This question is intended as a single repository on schematic drawing rules and guidelines can point people to. The question is What are the rules and guidelines for drawing...

Ghanima

I guess, we could need an Olin over there ;)

Adam Uraynar

Ya, you're just proving my point.

W5VO

@AdamUraynar Apologies, it should have been "OMG TOTS ARDI+H+BAT"

Adam Uraynar

There is no convention for

I don't care anyway. If the pinouts are available though Fritzing, then ask for it.

That's it. That's the point.

W5VO

If you take shortcuts with your symbols, then you end up with the conclusion of "my schematics can't really look that good anyways"

Adam Uraynar

20:05

Ghanima was asking about why Fritzing was used, and if there's any advantage to using a regular circuit schematic. I simply said that it appears Fritzing has a feature to extract regular schematics.

PlasmaHH

@W5VO true for that case. But at all and definitely

W5VO

It takes no more time to make a good version of that schematic than a crappy one

Ghanima

most people don't own a license for altium though ;)

W5VO

And neither do I

but that was KiCAD, not Altium

Adam Uraynar

Most people don't know either.

W5VO

20:15

And my new favorite feature - easy linking to the datasheet:

Adam Uraynar

Does Eagle have that?

Ghanima

last I checked, about ten years ago, KiCAD was somewhat baulky to handle... I understand that users new to EE try something simple, such as fritzing... and it is likely that various places on the internet (as visited by said users) are promoting fritzing instead of something else

@W5VO certainly a useful feature

W5VO

@Ghanima There is a learning curve, but it's gotten much better (Version 5 was just releiased)

Adam Uraynar

I think I see now why it's being used more and more. It has schematic, breadboard and PCB view. And people new to electronics want software that has the most intuitive wiring (the breadboard view).

Nonsense about overglorified electricians...

Ghanima

still they chose to post the least helpful view, the breadboard view

as I was saying, with just that image, without the fritzing project or however it might be called, it places the effort on me to reverse engineer that to arrive at some helpful schematics

Adam Uraynar

20:28

TIL to ask for the schematic view =)

Or else I wouldn't bother.

Ghanima

still I wonder how the workflow with fritzing is...

I would expect that you input your design in the schematics editor

not the breadboard view

am I wrong?

Adam Uraynar

Ha, I don't think anyone here has it.

I'd guess they're all connected. Changing something on one, changes it on the other views

But I've never used it before.

Marla

@ThePhoton . . did you mean that 11111111 equals -1 in your comment ? Or -128

Twos compliment

Never mind . just my bad interpreting

Adam Uraynar

20:55

...people on ham radio just talking about ham radio...

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