The DMZ

TildalWave

00:01

@FEichinger said the one that infected us all yesterday with the doge 2048

FEichinger

Don't. Blame. Me.

Rory Alsop

@FEichinger I'm doing very well on this - am up to ...bright yellow 'u'

Scott Pack

So. I clicked on that Numberwang game.

I'm getting scores, cool cool.

I'm moving tiles, uhhuh.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop you're good at consolidating your cubes into one easy power of two cube?

Scott Pack

I have no fucking clue what's happening.

Rory Alsop

00:03

@TildalWave yeah - got a backwards 45 now

FEichinger

@ScottPack That's ... kinda the point.

Scott Pack

Every few moves it'll say, "That's Number Wang!" so I figure I accomplished something.

TildalWave

@RoryAlsop hey I don't know what that means and I'm still enjoying it :)

Rory Alsop

@ScottPack that's just what the original game show said

FEichinger

@ScottPack You don't get the reference, do you?

Scott Pack

00:04

@FEichinger What reference?

FEichinger

...

TildalWave

►

FEichinger

That answers that.

Scott Pack

So...what the fuck just happened? Apparently I got wanged.

TildalWave

@ScottPack you haven't played the original 2048 did you?

Scott Pack

00:07

What are you people talking about?

Gilles

@ScottPack I think it uses the colors from the original game (with the same meaning), but shows random, changing numbers

Rory Alsop

erm - Numberwang 2048 wraps around....

TildalWave

@ScottPack try this one sujeetgholap.github.io/2048

Rory Alsop

past bright yellow you go back to the original grey

Scott Pack

@TildalWave That one makes a little more sense.

So for newjob I was given a 15" early 2013 MBP i7 Retina. It's a beautiful laptop, I'm quite happy using it. But jesus fucking christ does the battery life blow.

Rory Alsop

00:27

gahh - was doing so well

My bottom row was yellows plus the end gap and I messed up and had to move up one...

FEichinger

Did we mention this, btw?

41

Q: The profile page is getting a makeover

The Big Idea Create a page on the network that summarizes who I am as a developer, and lets me show off the stuff I am most proud of. Some of this information is only available by creating a Careers profile, but we want to open it up to everybody, even if you don’t have one. Background: The Pro...

Rory Alsop

meh - I'm with Madscientist on this one. I only look at profiles from a mod perspective, and I don't really care who looks at mine

tylerl

00:42

Know you you feel, bro.

Rory Alsop

@tylerl heh - the backwards root 9

Gilles

Who's managed 4096? (I haven't)

Rory Alsop

01:01

got a decent score on Wangernumb, sorry Numberwang:

@Gilles which one goes up to 4096?

Gilles

@RoryAlsop the regular one? Or what happens if you merge two 2048 tiles?

Rory Alsop

@Gilles I thought getting one 2048 was a win (haven't managed it yet) - but maybe it is the same as the numberwang one, and it just rolls over

Gilles

@RoryAlsop the game says “you won” but you can keep going

Rory Alsop

@Gilles ahhhhh

TildalWave

01:24

@Gilles There's a 4096 game too? The 2048 one ends when you make 2048 (and asks you if you'd like to try again LOL)

ah sorry

now I read forward duh!

Terry Chia

02:02

Woo, free IntelliJ license!

David Freitag

02:32

Woo, chocolate almond crunch cookies!

strugee

02:52

man, the star board's been looking shoddy lately. quick, someone say something witty.

makerofthings7

03:03

HACK is the new PHP from Facebook wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/03/facebook-hack/?mbid=social_fb

Aye or naye?

FEichinger

... You need to be quite full of yourself to call your programming language "Hack".

Also, am I seeing this correctly and all they're going to do is "PHP with fixed data types"?

strugee

> Hip Hop Virtual Machine

FEichinger

That's what the screenshot implies, at any rate.

(And, no, I'm not going to read it. Hell no.)

It's a wired article, it's about Facebook, and it's a pretentious "new programming language". Fuck that.

strugee

@FEichinger yeah seems like that to me too

so all in all:

TildalWave

@FEichinger or run it inside the Hip Hop Virtual Machine

FEichinger

03:12

@TildalWave Please don't make me read it. It sounds like it'll make me want to grab a drink and I really don't want to grab a drink at 4am.

TildalWave

to me it reads as even campier version of the gayest programming language ever

kinda like Pink Visual Basic

3

it'll unite many unicorns tho

@FEichinger no need to read it

FEichinger

So ... they're bastardizing a language that is inherently chaos ... for the sake of adding fixed types and compatibility with their crappy pseudo-compiler-interpreter-VM-menagerie.

strugee

@FEichinger for a minute I read that as 'typos' and I just accepted it like that, because PHP

FEichinger

PHP has no typos.

TildalWave

@FEichinger that "gradual typing" is gonna blow back big time, but hey we're infosec guys, that just makes it merrier for us then

I'm old fashioned, I type as I type

Simon

03:22

PHP 4 lyfe

FEichinger

... See, now I have to think of ways to make fun of @Simon just so he stops talking nonsense like that.

Simon

@FEichinger My next tattoo will be "I live for PHP"

TildalWave

@FEichinger I could always edit that for him :)

Simon

I TYPE ONE THING IN THE CHAT IN A FEW DAYS AND SOMEONE WANTS TO EDIT IT, WOW.

TildalWave

@Simon welcome back

Simon

03:26

@TildalWave It feels just like home <3

FEichinger

<?php
    @set_time_limit(0);
    while(true) {}

Simon

CLOSE THE TAG

HURRY

TildalWave

@Simon can you lose the caps please?

Simon

Is it too early to use caps lock?

TildalWave

@Simon 4:30 a.m. here so ... yup

Simon

03:29

@TildalWave You raved all night and now you just came home, right? Sick.

TildalWave

@Simon actually no, I was shuffling dirt at the garden and my back's killing me

Simon

Sounds funner than raving.

tylerl

@Simon You don't close the <?php tag unless you want to output something afterwards.

Even crappy PHP developers know that!

Simon

Sounds like a bad practice that would cause problems to me.

FEichinger

@Simon The opposite, actually.

tylerl

03:39

@Simon closing the tag? Yes. bad practices, causes problems.

Simon

wot

FEichinger

By not closing the tag you prevent excess newlines and whitespace after the closing tag.

Which can cause issues when setting the header, or outputting content.

tylerl

Simon <==== mind=blown

Simon

da fuck is dat shitty language

FEichinger

Particularly important when you use a variety of different included files.

tylerl

03:40

@Simon PHP? No joke.

Simon

Pee H Pee. HA!

I know guys, I'm going to bed soon.

FEichinger

A PHP dev who doesn't know PHP is shit isn't a PHP dev.

tylerl

@FEichinger Yeah. someone like that should just give up now.

David Freitag

What suitable replacements are there for PHP?

tylerl

@DavidFreitag <*insert joke here*>

FEichinger

03:43

@DavidFreitag "suitable"? None, really.

TildalWave

@DavidFreitag hormonal therapy?

FEichinger

For definitions of "suitable" being "widely available and reasonably powerful".

David Freitag

@FEichinger I guess that makes sense. Why doesn't someone get on that?

tylerl

@DavidFreitag depends on your purposes.

FEichinger

@DavidFreitag Because there's no reason to. We have a lot of great PHP devs who know how much the language can do, and know full well why it's the mess it is

tylerl

03:44

@DavidFreitag There aren't any replacements that follow PHP's overall technique because that technique is largely considered a bad idea.

David Freitag

@tylerl Something that does exactly what PHP does without being such a heaping pile of shit?

tylerl

@DavidFreitag If it does exactly what PHP does, then isn't it just PHP?

Simon

Does PHP itself know it's shit?

FEichinger

Also, PHP mostly is a heaping pile of shit because it's a collection of Perl scripts.

There's little else that's fundamentally wrong with it.

David Freitag

@tylerl Well as long as the final result is the same, the actions between can be very different.

tylerl

03:46

@FEichinger well. it started out that way. Now it's C code that's always good reading if you need a laugh

FEichinger

@tylerl Well, yeh, but most of said C code is a 1:1 port of the original Perl, in terms of structure. :P

tylerl

@DavidFreitag So the idea that every script is actually an HTML file with embedded code -- You've got PHP, ASP, and to a certain degree ASP.NET. And by then people realized that maybe that's not a good starting point for high-quality sites.

So no frameworks after that used that same paradigm

David Freitag

@tylerl I thought PHP was mostly used for server side stuff?

tylerl

Likewise for putting your scripts inside your document root. Seemed like a good idea at the time, turns out that no.

FEichinger

It was a good idea when PHP was 10% of the site and HTML 90% ... Now that that's changed, embedding isn't the smartest idea. (Which is why almost all PHP nowadays is only embedded by syntax, not in execution.)

tylerl

03:49

@DavidFreitag Right, the PHP file is send directly to the browser unless you go like this: <? .... ?>

David Freitag

@tylerl I see

tylerl

@FEichinger And there's no small amount of irony to the fact that things like Smarty templates and frameworks like CI and cake and symphony have become the "proper" way to do site development

Since PHP is, itself, a web framework.

The very existence of other frameworks is something like a vote of no-confidence from the people who use it.

FEichinger

Well, it depends.

An awful lot of devs nowadays don't even know how to work with the core anymore.

They learned their flavour of framework, and that's all they know.

David Freitag

Not really. That's like saying building a framework with NodeJS is the same thing..

FEichinger

DON'T EVEN START WITH NODEJS.

David Freitag

03:52

Huehuehue. I knew someone would do that.

NodeJS and PHP are two topics that i know of that, when mentioned, always usually make at least one person groan.

tylerl

So, @DavidFreitag -- if you want to do development using the old-style PHP-embedded-in-HTML technique, then no, there's no other reasonable options

David Freitag

@tylerl How does the original embedded PHP style compare to javascript embedded the same way?

tylerl

@DavidFreitag Javascript is something of a different story. There has to be hooks in the HTML page because the HTML page is what the browser fetches from the server.

and honestly the original JS spec was a bit .... hurried.

David Freitag

I remember reading that JS was rushed out of the gates and that lead to an initial flop

strugee

04:53

yeah, but it's a real language nowadays

tylerl

05:13

@strugee So is Visual Basic

strugee

@tylerl screw off

TildalWave

05:24

steady ...

They're not too dissimilar really, they're both highly abstract high-level scripting languages with some OOP-like feel to it, but you won't really write anything on the hardware level with them, you need controllable interface that can be scripted with any of the two first, and those will be written in ... something else. Good part is they're both simple and that's what their main objective really is. I still write in VBA and JS on occasion, for what they do they're good enough.

strugee

> you need controllable interface that can be scripted with any of the two first, and those will be written in ... something else.

?

tylerl

@strugee huh?

TildalWave

@strugee well not in JS or VB

strugee

@TildalWave I didn't understand what you were saying

@tylerl fixed

Terry Chia

@strugee You need another language to interface with hardware.

Which is by itself in no way a negative.

strugee

05:36

@TerryChia WebGL

TildalWave

@strugee no, that's still scripting, only the interpreter for it is built into hardware nowadays

Terry Chia

@strugee Don't kid yourself. What do you think OpenGL is if not another language?

strugee

@TerryChia fair enough

TildalWave

in a nutshell, it won't let you access memory directly, or write to other addresses on the hardware level, thus = abstracted

strugee

but why would you need to interface with the hardware in the contexts that JS is used in? Python is a great language and it doesn't have malloc()

tylerl

05:39

@TerryChia It's a point of particular frustration for me that the only real option here for low level stuff is C. I mean, why hasn't technology progressed beyond that? (And don't say C++, 'cause that's not an improvement).

Terry Chia

@tylerl Rust is interesting in that account.

@tylerl Also, +1000.

tylerl

@TerryChia Same w/ Go. But neither is quite up to some important tasks: ..

strugee

isn't Haskell compiled?

tylerl

For example,

strugee

in that way?

Terry Chia

05:40

I guess C is perfect if you treat it as what it really is, a cross-platform abstraction over assembly.

4

TildalWave

@strugee well I don't have to, if I want my JS code to use, say, my SmartCard reader, I'll fire up my compiler and let it build a nice little interface for it first, then load it into memory and wait for my JS interpreter's input

tylerl

a little while ago I had to write a nsswitch library for doing userID lookups across a set of sqlite databases on various disks.

since nss is a library that gets loaded by other processes, it has to "play nice" with other processes without them knowing what code they're running

there are literally no options other than C and C++ (with C exports)

...unless you count FORTRAN

TildalWave

@TerryChia there's many languages that could fall into that category, it's what we'd usually classify as "3rd generation"

Third-generation programming language

A third-generation programming language (3GL) is a refinement of a second-generation programming language. The second generation of programming languages brought logical structure to software. The third generation brought refinements to make the languages more programmer-friendly. This includes features like improved support for aggregate data types, and expressing concepts in a way that favors the programmer, not the computer (e.g. no longer needing to state the length of multi-character (string) literals in Fortran). A third generation language improves over a second generation language ...

strugee

@TildalWave but there isn't a great reason to have direct access. it can all be abstracted into nice APIs. WebUSB...

tylerl

all newer languages need you to "load their runtime environment", for whatever context that might mean.

TildalWave

05:44

@strugee there isn't, if you're not doing anything new and don't mind relying on what others thought you might find useful before you

strugee

@TildalWave ...I've lost track of what we're debating

:P

Terry Chia

@TildalWave Yeah, but nothing as widespread as C.

TildalWave

@strugee Different generation programming languages or low and high level programming languages aren't directly comparable. It's like saying a chainsaw and swiss army knife are the same thing, because they both can cut.

strugee

@TildalWave amen to that

subtle distinction there

TildalWave

tho there are always some C programmers that will try and cut themselves a steak with a chainsaw, and some JS programmers that will try and butcher a cow with a swiss army knife ;)

@tylerl you forgot Pascal :P

tylerl

06:16

@TildalWave I don't think chainsaws ever appear in meat preparation

at least not on this side of hollywood horror films.

@ManishEarth Hello, μ

TildalWave

They don't? What do they use to cut the carcass in half then?

tylerl

@TildalWave band saws, usually

TildalWave

ah, well ... I'm no expert :)

tylerl

@TildalWave chainsaws make a greasy mess

Even electric ones.

Falcon Momot

that and they would splatter gore everywhere

TildalWave

06:20

yeah I'd imagine so, didn't really think too much about it to be honest

didn't Salvador Dali use a chainsaw on a cow?

tho he also slept with them on a nice 16th century bed in his little castle, and he catapulted one too, so that wouldn't be too surprising if he did

kiBytes

06:54

@TildalWave I don't think he did, at least never heard about that

Lucas Kauffman

07:55

morning gents

kiBytes

08:17

hey @LucasKauffman Did you try the HIIT thing?

Lucas Kauffman

@kiBytes yea, I hated the app though, wouldn't allow me to put my iphone in pocket :(

@kiBytes but I did enjoy the training

kiBytes

I like it because it's hard

the iphone in the pocket, never though of that

I usually put it in front of me or in an armband

Lucas Kauffman

@kiBytes I pocket it but then the app goes into pause mode

@kiBytes I need one that counts down but still allows me to pocket it

I did 10 sets of 30 running 10 walking, then another 10 sets of 1 minute running 1 minute walking

@kiBytes the best part of it all is that I don't feel as stiff as I would when running continiously for 30 minutes

kiBytes

But the key here is to go the hardest you can

30/10 looks really hard to me

30running/10walking

And 1 minute is too long push off limits

Lucas Kauffman

@kiBytes better do 30 repititions of 30/10 then?

kiBytes

08:28

Mmmm the best thing is to get a planning from internet

but I would go: 10 sets 30 seconds pushing of limits/ 30 or 40 seconds walking

but if you feel comfortable with that, reduce the time

Lucas Kauffman

must burn fat asap

kiBytes

I myself won't be able to sprint 30 seconds and then rest only 10 secs

and make 10 repetetitions that is really hard

Maybe I am wrong but I am afraid you are "jogging" 30 seconds and walking 10 seconds

Lucas Kauffman

@kiBytes I did that yesterday, it was hard though

kiBytes

Ok, then, if you are able to do the 30/10 that is great

Lucas Kauffman

I also thought of playing this game

zombiesrungame.com

kiBytes

08:32

@LucasKauffman Oh, that sounds funny, they make it in Madrid last year

I finally didn't sign up

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman It's good fun - my kids used it a lot on holiday

If you mean the zombierun app

the real life game - I'd do if I could find a place that did it at a useful time

kiBytes

@LucasKauffman Oh, that's an app, I thought it was a run

runnersvszombies.com

Lucas Kauffman

@kiBytes it's an app but you actually gain points you can use in game

perks of having an Italian director: brings tiramisu and limoncelo to LAN parties

ooooh yiiiiz

Rory Alsop

@LucasKauffman mmmmmmm

kiBytes

@LucasKauffman I love tiramisu

Hey guys, do you know any open source HSM for linux?

I mean a distro or similar with a server to manage keys and so on

Stack Exchange

10:09

Stanford sleep researcher William Dement said that after 50 years of studying sleep, the only really solid explanation he knows for why we do it is 'because we get sleepy'.

Thomas Pornin

12:19

@kiBytes The 'H' in "HSM" means "hardware". This calls for a different notion of "open source".

@TerryChia Hell no, it is far from perfect in that role too -- it is just that all other cross-platform abstractions over assembly are worse.

kiBytes

@ThomasPornin But I though that maybe I can turn a Linux machine into an HSM

Thomas Pornin

@kiBytes Technically a HSM has any value only because of its physical shielding, which a random "Linux machine" does not feature. I suppose that what you want is not a "HSM" but some sort of key server (not the same kind of beast).

kiBytes

@ThomasPornin yeps, you are probably quite right =)

Terry Chia

12:34

@ThomasPornin True.

@kiBytes Probably???

kiBytes

@TerryChia Yeps, probably, because maybe what I really need is an HSM and not the key server, I will have to ask again the guy for the specifications =)

it was a quick chat in the halls and I want to have a quick look to the options

so I will need to sit down and ask

FEichinger

13:00

AviD

@RoryAlsop interestingly, that is not the same everywhere.

@RoryAlsop @Adnan here at least, it is a normal loan, or almost. First of all, it is much longer term; second of all the scope of the loan is subject to certain requirements (e.g. relative to a percentage of the verified value of the house, your current paycheck, etc); and thirdly the house itself is put up as collateral. Which has a fourth effect, of in turn requiring "special" mortgage insurance signed over to the bank.

Also interesetingly, mortgages here have a much larger range of types - it is more like an investment portfolio.

E.g. my mortgage has 6 or 7 sub-loans, each running at a different rate with different conditions.

Scott Pack

Here we also have a special type of mortgage insurance for when the value of the home exceeds 80% of the remaining principle.

AviD

shouldnt the value of the home ALWAYS exceed 80% of the principle?

oh wait, subprime. Right.

FEichinger

13:17

And of course Arqade now has a 2048-numberwang question. Because why the hell not.

AviD

@FEichinger what the hell. Is this based on math for morons?

FEichinger

How can so many people not get the Numberwang! reference?

Uncultured swine!

13 hours ago, by TildalWave

►

AviD

watching. not getting.

do they use dev/urandom instead of a calculator?

Adnan

13:45

@AviD and that's a numberwang!!

AviD

what is?

Rory Alsop

@AviD here too. Which is incredibly annoying. I just want one thing

Numbers for how much I owe, how much I'm paying a month, and when it will be done

AviD

@RoryAlsop yeah, I know.

but the thing is, it really is a long term investment - 20-30 years is most common here. And if you just link the whole thing to the current interest rate, you might get rightly screwed.

so you branch out. Maybe take a fixed interest, so you know that won't change the whole time.

but that tends to be relatively expensive. so you take some linked to the USD.

or renewable monthly.

or linked to the standard of living index. (which most of them are here, anyway).

etc.

hence the reverse- portfolio.

Rory Alsop

@AviD ahhh - here it is generally the best option for a long term loan (ie lowest interest rate)

never considered it as an investment as such

but then I don't do accountancy nonsense

(apologies to RoryM :-)

AviD

@RoryAlsop but the interest rate can go up or down. A LOT.

Lucas Kauffman

13:56

@RoryAlsop the current interest here in September was about 1.5% it was a real bargain. Now it's gone up to 4

AviD

so it might be the best option right now, but 5 years, or 15 years from, it might be a very different story.

Adnan

@AviD It's a satire about modern TV game shows. Seen Mitchell and Webb Look before? It's like the English version of Burnistoun.

@LucasKauffman How can the difference be so large?

AviD

@Adnan ahhh Mitchell and Webb. Of course.

@Adnan mostly, supply and demand.

Lucas Kauffman

@Adnan Depends on what the ECB is doing, if they increase interest, the banks will have to follow

AviD

and the state of rain in east asia.

Lucas Kauffman

13:57

Time to buy roubels

Adnan

@Lucas @AviD But but but 1.5% -> 4% is a huuuuge difference.

AviD

@Adnan Not the biggest we've seen, but yeah it's pretty sizable.

Lucas Kauffman

@Adnan it is, it was considered ridiculously low, but it was because the ECB was lending money to the banks almost for free to stabilize the markets

makerofthings7

WPA2 Cracked? phys.org/news/2014-03-wpa2-wireless.html

AviD

for a stable economy. Of course, instable economies can jump a hell of a lot more than that.

@makerofthings7 a Cracked.com article about WPA2??

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