The DMZ

Mark Buffalo

00:16

Son of all the known bitches in the galaxy

It's snowing harder than Hoth during a record storm

David Freitag

@MarkBuffalo D:

woah drama alert

Thomas Pornin

00:35

@Adi This is good.

@Xander They are. We were talking about it a few days ago.

However, roaches are also vectors to a number of bacteria that are not good at all for human health.

You'd better munch on grasshoppers, it is safer.

David Freitag

@ThomasPornin So boil them before enjoying them.

Thomas Pornin

In the school where I did my PhD, there was also a physics and chemistry lab. In the basement there were tunnels, inhabited by very large roaches.

You could hear them walk on concrete.

David Freitag

What pray tell was young Pornin doing in the basement ( ͡◉ ͜ ʖ ͡◉)

TildalWave

@DavidFreitag I don't think that's good enough, IIRC it's not the bacteria itself that is dangerous, but its metabolites

David Freitag

@TildalWave Cleanse it with fire.

TildalWave

00:44

there's other sources of carbon :P

many species of beetles also grow fungi symbiotically, some of them pretty toxic

kinda their defense mechanism, which is pretty neat actually

David Freitag

@TildalWave Yeah well thanks to evolution my defense mechanism is thermite.

TildalWave

again, that will only reduce it to mostly elemental carbon and the rest will evaporate

which isn't what you want if you're trying to obtain nutrients

David Freitag

You're ruining all of my fun @Tilda

TildalWave

sorry :)

David Freitag

It's funny you would think I was one of those kids who would burn insects with a magnifying glass

Although I think the only reason I never did was because we didn't have a magnifying glass with which to burn things

TildalWave

00:55

since you're thermite expert, which one produces highest adiabatic flame temperature?

David Freitag

Who said I was an expert?

Also: adabawut

Thomas Pornin

@DavidFreitag "Adiabatic" means "without transfert of heat".

The Adiabatic flame temperature is the temperature of the flame when the object burns in isolation.

TildalWave

haha never mind, I think it's red iron but it doesn't matter ... I was just thinking about something re some question we had about construction on Mars and dangers of accidentally setting off a thermite chain reaction

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave If that could occur, it should already have happened. You can get quite some heat from a meteorite impact.

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin well, it also tends to move things around

but yeah, I'd imagine some melts can trap some of it

it wouldn't make much of a difference there tho

TildalWave

01:14

come to think about it, it might be one of the sources of "Martian blueberries" ... highly metallic dust can and does cause burn-throughs in lava flow kinda like if someone would drill tiny holes into its solidified surface with a blowtorch... which can spurt out small granules

I'm talking about these little guys

Martian spherules

Martian spherules (also known as blueberries due to their blue hue in false-color images released by NASA) are the abundant spherical hematite inclusions discovered by the Mars rover Opportunity at Meridiani Planum on the planet Mars. They are found in situ embedded in a sulfate salt evaporitic matrix, and also loose on the surface. The shapes by themselves do not reveal the particles' origin with certainty. "A number of straightforward geological processes can yield round shapes," said Dr. Hap McSween, an Opportunity science team member from the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. They include...

Mark Buffalo

@DavidFreitag Yeah... my daughter is freaking out over it, though. She loves it

@ThomasPornin Is this like thermodynamic diabeetus?

TildalWave

a what? :O

ha LOL I got it

Mark Buffalo

@TildalWave How are you?

TildalWave

Me? I'm great :) You?

Mark Buffalo

great

TildalWave

01:23

snowed in yet?

Mark Buffalo

yep

took us like 50 minutes to drive 17 miles

TildalWave

yeah that's the shitty part of it, but I miss snow this year anyway

Mark Buffalo

The weather isn't as bad here as it was in maine

Thomas Pornin

@TildalWave Come to Canada ! We have lots of the stuff.

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin you know I just might if all goes well, maybe end of May ... tho I'd expect you won't have snow by that time any more LOL

Thomas Pornin

01:25

Not everywhere, indeed.

But when the winter is very snowy, they accumulate extra snow in some dumping areas, where you can have 30m high snow hills. Such an amount does not melt fast; in fact, half of it would still be there the following winter.

I have witnessed it in 2008.

TildalWave

I'd imagine it doesn't stay white tho

Mark Buffalo

@ThomasPornin wtf...

even through summer?

Thomas Pornin

Ah no, it is dark grey. It is really not pretty at all.

@MarkBuffalo Yes. The power of asymptotics.

TildalWave

we have plenty of snow in the Alps but a bit of it down below wouldn't go amiss as far as I'm concerned ... at least it would brighten the days a bit

Mark Buffalo

@ThomasPornin don't troll me, Thomas... my heart can't take it

Adi

01:30

Ooooh yeah!!! We got Virginia, Vermont, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Massachusetts, Georgia, and Alabama!!!

MickLH

Someone lighted the beacon?

Adi

Now I can go to sleep in peace!

TildalWave

wot? who has?

this is about elections?

Adi

@TildalWave Our Dear Leader Donald J Trump

Mark Buffalo

what the fuck

Clinton is stomping Sanders

MickLH

01:31

He's such a lovable narcissist.

Xander

@ThomasPornin I've had grasshoppers. They tasted quite similar to charcoal. Whatever their advantages, I can't say I recommend them.

Mark Buffalo

if clinton wins I'm ritualistically committing suicide with a spork

Thomas Pornin

@MarkBuffalo Heat exchange grows with the surface, which is quadratic in the length of the snow heap. The amount of heat needed to melt grows with the volume, which is cubic. Thus, melting time grows linearly with the length.

Mark Buffalo

@ThomasPornin That just got me all hot and bothered... slowly, that is

TildalWave

@Adi Well... shit :))

Mark Buffalo

01:32

I believe you

Thomas Pornin

It is the same mechanism that explains why whales are big. A big animal has a lot less trouble keeping warm in cold water than a smaller one.

Adi

I guess Colorado and Minnesota gonna have to wait until I wake up.

Fingers crossed for a Trump win!

Mark Buffalo

@Adi I hope Trump wins

Xander

@MarkBuffalo If Clinton wins, things will be much the same as always. As it will be if any other candidate wins.

Adi

@Xander Not if Trump wins

Mark Buffalo

01:34

@Xander I know, but it's fun to complain and make threats. This is an American pasttime

Xander

@MarkBuffalo That, however, is a bridge a bit too far.

Mark Buffalo

We'll threaten to suicide/go to canada/europe, and like 2 weeks afterwards, it's all back to normal again

TildalWave

what, to Arnhem?

Adi

God damn it! How is Clinton gathering the black votes?!

Mark Buffalo

@Adi Why do you want Trump to win?

He's just going to continue the waterboarding/torture... you know, the same shit you went through in Syria.

TildalWave

01:37

so for a US elections nob like me, what is actually super tuesday? the TL;DR version pls

MickLH

lol

TildalWave

@MarkBuffalo I heard they're deprecating that

Mark Buffalo

I doubt it

MickLH

Why? I'd think they have something better by now

Thomas Pornin

@MarkBuffalo For everything related to foreign policy, the US president does not have a lot of choice, except maybe a general orientation as a choice between "more war" and "more war, but reluctantly".

After all, Obama did not close Guantanamo.

MickLH

01:39

You could pretty easily use Q-learning to monitor a human and optimize the usage of several torture instruments

Thomas Pornin

And Iraq and Afghanistan are not finished business either.

TildalWave

@MickLH s/water/fizzy drinks

MickLH

@TildalWave Better: Digitally control the fizz level to optimize the person's despair

Thomas Pornin

The USA are the World police, and they don't have much choice if they want to keep on, say, using iPhones produced in China.

Mark Buffalo

@MickLH Q-Learning?

Xander

01:42

@Adi How does any politician win the vote of any demographic? She says things they like to hear.

MickLH

@MarkBuffalo It's a technique used to train neural networks based on letting it do trial and error, and measuring the effectiveness of its actions

Mark Buffalo

@MickLH ah, I understand

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin funny you should mention that: Obama Sends Plan to Close Guantánamo to Congress (FEB. 23, 2016)

Mark Buffalo

this is why I behave in the most bizzarre and unpredictable ways. so I can't be profiled

is secretly profiled as: nutty tinfoil hattist

MickLH

You could even have a human operator provide the actions in the beginning so that it starts from highly effective already

Thomas Pornin

01:44

@TildalWave Well, I recognize that he tries, and did so several times in his eight years. So far, the number of closed Guantanamos is still 0.

MickLH

lol welp. I just had a huge security breach -_-

luckily it was my mother who broke in

TildalWave

@ThomasPornin true, and this try doesn't have huge chance of succeeding either

Xander

@MickLH It doesn't count if she lives with you. Or you live with her, however you most like to frame it.

MickLH

We do not share a residence

Thomas Pornin

@MickLH ... but she still does your laundry and brings prepared meals ?

MickLH

01:47

Nope

Xander

@MickLH Then why is she breaking in?

MickLH

She didn't literally "break in", she has access to my so-called secure stuff

Thomas Pornin

@Xander Maybe she wanted to caught him red-handed while he is DMZing.

Xander

@ThomasPornin That would be typically maternal.

MickLH

She called me to say I left my passport at her place, which if she knows that it means she has access to my secure storage.

Mark Buffalo

01:49

I hope my mom never finds out I chat with a bunch of nerds in this room

Xander

@MickLH This story is becoming less and less newsworthy.

MickLH

It's not newsworthy, I'm just venting to people who might understand

I have to throw away all my private keys now since I had a backup in there

Bob Ebert

hey, whats the difference between the service version and a banner grabbing?

Matt Clendenen

Does this chat room ever talk about security or is it just a bunch of people that know about security talking in a room about anything except security because they all deal with that stuff 24 7 anyways. Maybe with a couple of inside security jokes every now and then

Xander

@BobEbert Is there additional context you can provide?

@MattClendenen We talk about cryptography from time to time. And we talked about threat modeling once. That was fun.

Matt Clendenen

01:56

@Xander lol

Bob Ebert

When doing a recon, you can decide to use netcat to grab the banner

using nmap you can decide to use -v to get the service version

Thomas Pornin

The banner is what the service says.

nmap may potentially know better because it also analyses behaviour.

Xander

^ This.

Bob Ebert

So the most optimal "version grabber" would be nmap's version grabber (-v) ?

Thomas Pornin

@BobEbert The most optimal, is the one which is best good ?

nmap is a tool, it is not perfect

MickLH

01:59

What about a specific good makes it the "best" good?

(Assuming "good" is defined in context)

Bob Ebert

accurate

MickLH

I was hoping for a general answer

A way to generally differentiate between the "best" good and the "most" good

Xander

@BobEbert nmap will probably get you more accurate information, more of the time. It will not be 100%.

Bob Ebert

Would metasploit be a better option?

TildalWave

@MickLH doing the "most" good with as little effort as possible is the "best" good

you said you wanted a general answer :P

MickLH

02:02

@TildalWave So efficacy to effort ratio then, how are ties in this ratio resolved? I could see least absolute effort and most absolute efficacy as reasonable options.

(Which leaves all other options as "in-betweens" given identical ratios, so none of the ties are really eliminated by that)

Ohnana

3

Q: Basic question about how an IDS works

Would the location of an Intrusion Detection (or Packet Analysis) sensor on an internal network impact whether the external host's Source IP (assuming inbound TCP traffic) is retrievable from a packet? Put differently, is there a common deployment scenario in which sensor placement would mean co...

^^ edited after close, general opinion?

Xander

@Ohnana I think its a better question now. Hence my reopen vote. But, decide for yourself.

Ohnana

@Xander it was closed because the meat of the question was bad, the meat of the question is still the same but it's better worded

Xander

@BobEbert A tool like metasploit or nessus is generally used as a second step, after you generally figure out what you're dealing with from the results of something like an nmap scan and surface mapping.

Mark Buffalo

VTO'd

Xander

02:07

@Ohnana It's more targeted to what you might see from an IDS sensor now, as opposed to the general "what does a packet look like" question it was originally. If you don't think it's improved enough, vote to keep it closed. You won't hurt my feelings. :-)

Thomas Pornin

@Ohnana I think it is on-topic.

Ohnana

@Xander hmm, i'm rereading it and I see what you mean

it's less about "how do network?"

Xander

@Ohnana Yeah, that was my take on the edit.

Bob Ebert

@Xander I heard that metasploit was more accurate to get the right version of a service and one should use that if nmap didn't find the right version

Thomas Pornin

It is not a very good question, but, generally speaking, knowing how the network topology impacts the functioning of an IDS is in scope of security.SE.

MickLH

02:09

metasploit has built-in surface mapping?

Bob Ebert

it does

Thomas Pornin

@BobEbert I doubt there is an absolute ranking between nmap and metasploit, in which one would always be at least as good as the other, for all services.

Xander

@BobEbert That is likely true, but it's quite heavy and potentially noisy. I'm not a pentester though, so YMMV. You really need to ask someone like @RоryMcCune who does this for a living.

He'll be about in a few hours.

Bob Ebert

Thanks guys! I'll ask him when I see him

MickLH

man surface scan, payload generator, exploit loader, seems like the ultimate script kiddie toolbox

Bob Ebert

02:13

or pentester...

MickLH

Well of course, just thinking it seems like selling rocket launchers at the grocery store

Bob Ebert

script kiddy wouldn't know what they are doing (or just a little) and wouldn't know what to do afterwards, which is the difference with a professional :P

Thomas Pornin

@BobEbert The professional knows how to grab the money and run.

MickLH

(Which is why you pay them their asking price lol)

Bob Ebert

where the script kiddy would grab the money and wait xD

MickLH

02:17

I used to think it was hilarious to get all my friends browsers hooked into my BeEF install and then inject messages into their browser when they went to do things securely

Ohnana

@MickLH haha you should see cobalt strike

now THAT is a toolbox

it's metasploit with even more features and syntactic sugar bolted on

Bob Ebert

Pentesters uses that?

looks like armitage to me!

TildalWave

@MickLH in a fully self-contained system, you can't resolve it to one single "best" good out of an infinite matrix, that's why you need context (initial state) or feedback (loop control) to make it deterministic

have we gone full nurd yet?

MickLH

@TildalWave noooooooo! I need a closed form solution!!

TildalWave

@MickLH fuzzy logic?

dunno, pick your control theory poison

MickLH

02:24

I pick both, conditionally

TildalWave

quantum state suicide huh?

Matt Clendenen

02:49

So, if every single MAC on an AP is being deauthed except one.. would this affect the internet connection of the one MAC that is NOT deauthenticated?

Thomas Pornin

@MattClendenen If it is alone, it may have more bandwidth at its disposal.

Matt Clendenen

That's the idea of my in progress project:

github.com/m4ttclendenen/greedy-mac

@Tho

TildalWave

@MattClendenen didn't you post some question on the site about it?

Matt Clendenen

@ThomasPornin but I was wondering if there were to be any interference such as the router being very busy with deauths

Yes I did

Thomas Pornin

@MattClendenen This is a question of performance, so it should be measured.

Matt Clendenen

02:55

What tool would be used to measure this.. Am I on the right track of thinking airodump-ng measuring the PWR?

Henry WH Hack

03:57

I am unblocked yes.

Henry WH Hack

04:36

yeah

Henry WH Hack

05:11

bored! any body here?

Bob Ebert

hello

Henry WH Hack

@BobEbert hello

Bob Ebert

I was wondering what was the difference between nmap -sV and nmap -v

Henry WH Hack

@BobEbert I don't know much about nmap.

Bob Ebert

oh ok thanks anyway

Henry WH Hack

05:14

@BobEbert did you tried the command nmap --help or man nmap

Bob Ebert

lol good idea

-sV: Probe open ports to determine service/version info

-V: Print version number

I guess -sV would be better

To enable version detection, just add -sV to whatever Nmap flags you normally use. Or use the -A option, which turns on version detection and other Advanced and Aggressive features later

so there's -sV, -V and -A which are almost the same thing

Henry WH Hack

@BobEbert I think -V is more to tell the version of the nmap program you are using on your computer

Bob Ebert

it does...

so -sV and -A are the same thing

Henry WH Hack

google is your best friend now good bye.

Bob Ebert

05:34

you don't buy it if its free though

Henry WH Hack

where is everybody?

Terry Chia

@BobEbert No.

Henry WH Hack

@TerryChia Hey

Bob Ebert

@TerryChia what do you mean "no"

Terry Chia

@BobEbert They are not even remotely close to the same thing.

Bob Ebert

05:41

Can you explain the difference between -sV and -V ?

because on their website they wrote: To enable version detection, just add -sV to whatever Nmap flags you normally use. Or use the -A option, which turns on version detection and other Advanced and Aggressive features later.

add --version-all to the list

Henry WH Hack

@BobEbert you know when you run the command -V and --version it looks like it gives the same output or is it maybe a game of spot the diffrents

Bob Ebert

yea thats exactly what I did

what about this nmap -sV -A --version-all scanme.nmap.org

Terry Chia

@BobEbert -V prints out the version of nmap you are using...

Henry WH Hack

like I said before

Bob Ebert

Mybad I meant -A

Terry Chia

05:51

@BobEbert -sV enables version detection. -A enables a whole lot of things including NSE scripts which are much more aggressive and nosier.

Bob Ebert

Does that mean that -A is more efficient/accurate?

Terry Chia

Efficient, no. It's much slower. Accurate? Probably.

Henry WH Hack

@TerryChia wait what is sS used for?

Bob Ebert

Thanks for the answer

syn scan

Henry WH Hack

details

Bob Ebert

05:56

half-open scan (simply sending a syn request)

Henry WH Hack

okay

Bob Ebert

It doesn't do the 3way handshake

Henry WH Hack

ok

@TerryChia Are you there?

Henry WH Hack

06:09

anyone?

Bob Ebert

Still here

johnp

What is this place? :3

Henry WH Hack

@johnp this is a chatroom

johnp

...information security, lol the room description confused me

Henry WH Hack

06:45

thank the lord someone is here

johnp

The trouble with being a vampire is that one has to work unsociable hours...This just seemed like the most general chatroom on stackex

Henry WH Hack

@johnp who is a vampire?

johnp

Me

Henry WH Hack

@johnp I am coming over with a wooden stake.

johnp

Please dont, I thought this room was secular

Henry WH Hack

06:53

@johnp I have garlic

Journeyman Geek

@johnp and life sucks?

Just don't be a help vampire ;)

johnp

wut?

Journeyman Geek

(vampire joke)

Henry WH Hack

I love garlic

johnp

oh no...

delayed reaction

Journeyman Geek

06:54

Its spelled garlic.

johnp

what is the info security stack all about?

hacking?

encryption then, very nice

i love crypts

Henry WH Hack

@johnp it is about asking and answering questions on computer security and hacking stuff.

johnp

very interesting stuff, and frightening too

Henry WH Hack

@johnp you know keeping safe from hackers pentesting hacking hackers

johnp

stupid question: is coding knowledge absolutely necessary for hacking or are there other techniques or whatever involved

Henry WH Hack

07:01

@johnp yes it is coding is important for any IT/ITSEC guy also hackers.

johnp

future is looking bright for hackers and preventors alike

indeedy

lol

Henry WH Hack

And you need to know how computers,networking and IT works

StackExchange

Does it get taller first and then widen, or does it reach full width before getting taller, or alternate, or what?

Henry WH Hack

@StackExchange who are you?

johnp

it's our god

Henry WH Hack

07:07

@johnp lol joke

johnp

pretty weird actually

Deer Hunter

github.com/fulldecent/system-bus-radio

Air-gapped computers sing 'Mary had a little lamb' on AM 1580 kilocycles

Henry WH Hack

@DeerHunter what?

Adi

Oh, you poor guys don't know what happened yesterday

Henry WH Hack

the link

johnp

07:10

i feel like i've fallen down a rabbithole

Deer Hunter

@Adi? What?

johnp

but I bet you're gunna tell us @Adi

Adi

@DeerHunter Like on million mods came to the chat because of @HenryWHHack

Half the people thought he's a bot

Half the people thought he's drunk/baby

Henry WH Hack

@Adi I was blocked yesterday by that Avid guy that's what.

johnp

haha I don't even know what this room is, but it did cross my mind

Deer Hunter

07:11

@Adi / Svetlana - can't see that, li'l green button is a great helper

Adi

@HenryWHHack Because you were being an idiot

johnp

you have that bottish look about you alright

Henry WH Hack

I am really a bot

Adi

No. You're just a troll

johnp

tell us, do androids dream of electric sheep?

Adi

07:14

On a different news, Trump won the majority of states' primaries yesterday. Yay!

johnp

oh fudge

Does he really stand a chance? (european here)

Adi

In the general election? No, I don't think so

johnp

for presidency

Adi

Yeah, no I don't think so

johnp

good

Adi

07:16

Sadly, I feel it's gonna be Trump vs. Hilary

and even more sadly, I believe Hilary will win

:(

Deer Hunter

@Adi - polls set him about par for the course in the national vote

johnp

are u really a Trump supporter??

Deer Hunter

It gets murky insofar electoral college is concerned...

Henry WH Hack

@Adi I will go for Bill Gates our god.

Adi

@johnp Supporter as in I want him to win? Yes

johnp

07:18

I'm very naive so sarcasm doesn't work on me a lot of the time

Adi

I'm not being sarcastic at all

I truly, with all my heart, want him to win.

johnp

lol I don't believe you at all now

goodbye everyone, i bid thee farewell

Henry WH Hack

@johnp goodbye.

Henry WH Hack

07:40

bored

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