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8:00 PM
@RоryMcCune They could learn a wee bit from the moderation behaviour here - I think. Almost all OWASP people I know (either having met them or by name) are perfectly reasonable and just want to help improve things - they should get community votes, which en masse could help guide the few who are political :-)
I say guide...
@ThomasPornin not constructive, sec.se is in English, if he/she doesn't like it, there's SE sites in other languages too
@RoryAlsop heh yeah the politics does get a bit out of hand at times!
since we just mentioned OWASP ....
> Tonight at 6:30pm EST you can watch the stream from the NYC OWASP Chapter LIVE from Brooklyn NY with over 250 attendees:
Full Agenda: http://www.meetup.com/OWASP-NYC/events/183358352/
Live Stream = http://www.livestream.com/nyuowasp

Tomorrow starts AppSecEMEA 2014 that will include LIVE STREAMING from the event details: http://owasp.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/appseceu-2014-live-streaming.html

Or the official AppSecEU 2014 page:
@TildalWave yeah will be interested to see how well the live streaming works on the day....
that sort of thing is, IME, a bit tricky to get right in a time sensitive set-up...
it's still gonna be better than football / soccer :) well, IMO
8:07 PM
> Hello Hello - I think Tom answered this creatively because the question is essentially an RTFM question. Tom's answer has saved it, and brought enjoyment to hundreds. SE is essentially an English speaking site, so while I understand your frustration, it is a bit unwarranted. Also - if newbies could answer like this I'd be very impressed :-)
I got to say Hello Hello
@ThomasPornin I can't believe I hadn't upvoted that answer yet. That was epic.
@RoryAlsop Nice. Taking care of these little details is what matters.
@ThomasPornin heh - I was in a good mood. I got a case of specialist ales for my birthday. Currently enjoying an Arbor Ales 'Yakima Valley American Style IPA'
very nice
@RoryAlsop Happy birthday then !
@ThomasPornin thank you kind sir/bear. It was last weekend, but I didn't get these beers until Sunday, so it's a nice extra week of beers
(I'm savouring them - one new flavour a night)
8:12 PM
@RoryAlsop Happy Birthday Rory!
@TildalWave you know what - this means I is even oldererer
and thanks
and since it was your b'day I'll let it slide that you declined my "not constructive" flag :P
@TildalWave did I?
I didn't see it
I think ... it's not like it says who don it LOL
I assume on the hello world dude
I dismissed hello world's flag
8:14 PM
doesn't matter, I already got my gold badge for helpful flags
@TildalWave I don't even have my deputy badge - it's tough when you are a mod, y'know :-)
@RoryAlsop I don't have it either, so it must not be an important badge.
Heh. While I remember:
Relatives of yours?
Well, there are eight species of bears, and being from a different species kinda prevents genealogical relationships.
@ThomasPornin Improbable perhaps, but not impossible. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grizzly%E2%80%93polar_bear_hybrid
8:29 PM
@Xander Oh yes. The grolar.
(French-speaking people laugh at that. Others don't understand.)
"Species" is a concept from biology, not mathematics, so it is a bit fuzzy.
E.g. tigers and lions are not considered the same species, but hybrids exist, and some of these hybrids are fertile enough to have descendants.
We still consider them different species because usually such hybrids are not fertile.
It's never good to see this:
> Using Google chrome browser? Please Use Internet Explorer or Mozilla Firefox for best experience
Ursid Hybrid! - now that's up there with 'Borg Attack' in my list of scary ideas :-)
@DavidFreitag s/best/worst FTFY
8:51 PM
@DavidFreitag At my work, for some parts of the intranet, they officially recommend... IE 7. And yes, they tell you explicitly to downgrade if you have something newer.
@ThomasPornin Is IE7 even usable on Win7+?
@DavidFreitag Apparently you can do it with "virtual XP mode", an emulation feature bundled with Win 7 Pro
Some people also succeed at using the IE 7 rendering engine within IE 8:
Q: How can I install Internet Explorer 7 on Windows 7?

vsync Possible Duplicate: How do you install MSIE7 in Windows 7? I need to install Internet Explorer 7 on my Windows 7 machine. How can this be done?

I am on linux..... I guess no IE for me ;p
9:06 PM
@Nick I have a WinXP system in VirtualBox just for such cases.
@ThomasPornin my brothers main desktop runs windows XP without any SPs...
I dont have the best experience with XP...
(and windows generally)
@DavidFreitag F12 + Document Mode = 7. Works on everything up through and including IE11 on Win 8.1.
@Nick Your brother should upgrade.
@Xander hes the "I dont care it works so its fine with me" type of person
@Nick Can you convince him that it may not be working?
@TRiG delete the bootmanager while hes not looking? ;p
9:17 PM
@ThomasPornin Well yeah, but that's cheating. A windows XP VM doesn't count as Windows 7
@Nick Well, unprotected systems could be doing all sorts of things. It could be using up half his RAM and most of his bandwidth to send spam. Give him some horror stories.
@TRiG I tried with the password, data theft horror stories his response is always "I have nothing to hide"

Biology: Species, Plato, definitions, and fuzzy edges.

Sep 28 '11 at 13:28, 9 minutes total – 22 messages, 3 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked Apr 16 '13 at 23:09 by TRiG

@Nick Huh. He might be surprised what can be revealed by data mining.
Still. Take a different tactic. Try telling him his computer is quite likely selling penis extensions and pretending to be a Nigerian prince (or the widow of one, more commonly these days, in my experience).
@TRiG after a month of trying to convince him to update I have given up on that and just moved his computer on a secondary router with firewall blocking all the traffic between my computers and a packet logger to check and drop anything malicious... the guy just wont understand
@Nick <Shrug /> Well, as long as he doesn't do online banking, it's his life. If he does do online banking, I'd suggest that he does have something to hide. Namely, his banking credentials.
9:28 PM
@Xander yea he doesn't do online banking and thank god everyone in the house knows to use my linux PC if they want to use their credit card and not his
12:30 here its getting late... bye everyone
@RоryMcCune I'm missing him terribly, and I didn't know that a picture like this exists, so thank you! :)
@RoryAlsop Happy belated birthday!
9:49 PM
production PCB quoting is such a pain in my ass
@DavidFreitag I can see it being problematic. But it shouldn't induce hemorrhoids.
You should see a doctor
What size run are you looking at doing?
100 8"x5.5" boards for fab and assembly
well, 100-200ish
wow. 8 inches? That's HUGE.
what does it do?
Yep. It's our motherboard
Ah, so it's not side-project.
A work thnig?
9:52 PM
runs one of these puppies criticallink.com/product/mitysom-335x
@tylerl Yes
Also, that was clearly what she said.
The issue is that it needs to be ENIG with 0.4mm spacing and 0.0013" drills
Who's the market for one of those modules? I have a difficult time coming up wth a usage case.
Anyone like us
@DavidFreitag You make them, though?
9:56 PM
Without the resources to make a board with a 500+ BGA package
@tylerl Nope, we buy them
That is the CPU module. The motherboard has a socket on it for that
.... but you're making THIS one?
@tylerl Uhhh... no. That's an 11 layer work of art. I wish I could route something like that.
Thanks @kisun
@DavidFreitag So, you build a board but you don't have the resources build the computer into it... so you get a computer you can put in a standard SIMD connector. That sound right?
@tylerl Right. TI makes the CPU/Compiler/Libraries we build everything else
Critical Link makes the module with NAND + RAM + CPU + Power management
10:00 PM
what does your board do?
@tylerl Controls 8 mass flow controllers which need a 12bit ADC/DAC each. It has a gigabit controller. Basically it just breaks out the signals from the CPU. PCAP signals for a display etc. with I2C for off-board controls.
@DavidFreitag signal processing?
@TildalWave Industrial gas flow control. Gas mixers/diluters ozone analyzers etc..
ah nice, any client I know?
@DavidFreitag you could totally do that on an arduino.
10:05 PM
Name's Environics. We ship worldwide.
@tylerl Yeah that's what I keep telling my boss, but the company insists that we use this module.
Also PCAP isn't exactly easy on an AVR
@DavidFreitag lol. And honestly you don't REALLY need more than 8-bits in your ADC, right?
256 is a big number.
@tylerl We were going to go with 16bit, but they get a bit pricey.
@tylerl The DAC we are using is only $2 digikey.com/product-detail/en/MCP4728A0-E%2FUN/…
plus you'd get to write the code using that sketchpad ide. totally a plus.
I get to use Linux to write code
and QT for the interface
@DavidFreitag I mean for those boards application ... sounds like something used in either distribution / storage systems or high precision flow control (which of course - note, I'm biased - could be used in space launch systems)
10:09 PM
And no low-level system drivers!
@DavidFreitag And the arduino comes with a built-in LED on GPIO 13. VERY USEFUL.
rain again, duh!
some summer
@tylerl Aw yuh.
@TildalWave It's possible, but propellants are usually really really cold and really really hazardous. We usually don't work with cold or hazardous.
@DavidFreitag The best part though: paying $30 for a $2 uC.
@tylerl Depends on which board we are talking about. The leonardo's 32U4 is ~$8 and the mega2560's cpu is ~$18
And i think the Due's ARM chip is pretty expensive too
The arduino guys need to start getting into the xmega chips. They are so much more advanced than the regular mega chips.
10:15 PM
@DavidFreitag not all ... high performance and cryogenic propellants yes, but there's all kinds of other propellants, like xenon, nitrogen and other "cold gas" propellants, and you also need to fill those liquid hydrogen tanks with nitrogen or helium first otherwise you get a nice boom
where nice = not nice
and then there's payload integration purging, launchpad purging,... all needs quite precise mixture control
@TildalWave I suppose. As long as the gas mixtures aren't corrosive to stainless steel it would be pretty trivial. We do custom systems all the time. The largest (flow rate wise) that we have done in the past was for the meat packing companies
And that was only a combined maximum of like 150LPM
@DavidFreitag so you're the US branch of otherwise Canadian company?
@TildalWave Nope we're all american. As far as i know...
@DavidFreitag I googled for Environics and the first one displayed is environics.ca
@TildalWave Nope that's the Environics Research Group. Not affiliated with us
10:24 PM
well it says Environics Analytics is also based in CA :)
(second result)
@TildalWave environics.com
the one that says "Gas mixers and gas blenders"
@DavidFreitag I tried to search for "environics gas" and got environics.fi :))
funny how many "environics" companies there are
@TildalWave haha nuclear forensics. Nope that's not us
@TildalWave And they are all copies. We have been around since the 70s i think. Maybe longer
My next project. Power by a STM32F373CC6 72MHz ARM chip. (waaaaaaay overkill :])
loads of companies named "enviromatics" too
2 HDMI ports and a USB MINI B connector with Bluetooth a host chip
10:50 PM
woops that was supposed to say 'a bluetooth host chip'
@TildalWave I enjoy that website. I really like the fact that everyone holding their gear is wearing full hasmat suits despite being in places like a busy airport.
@DavidFreitag but what does it do?
@tylerl That chip has a built in HDMI CEC controller. It allows me to leverage the CEC stuff over bluetooth
@tylerl I wonder if this means I should be wearing a hazmat suit when I go to the airport?
I bet the TSA would love that.
11:18 PM
I don't think it's against any regulations, but you would have to show your face unobstructed at the checks
happened when we went one year to the Venice carnival and there were a few passengers with their face painted ... had to wash it off
it's only a 20 minute flight and I guess nobody considered there was still a border check at that time ... it no longer is
but now we have the "post 9/11" controls that weren't then in place, so I actually dunno, maybe they simply don't allow it?
would be cool to know how they'd excuse themselves for prohibiting a gas mask and alike ... "unfair advantage"? :)))
@AviD @kalina Indeed, I concur. Unless the app gap is a big deal for you. Unfortunately, Windows Phone still hasn't closed that.4

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