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11:13 AM
@RoryAlsop @LucasKauffman is it? sounds like the solution (with the exception of the ink signature image) he's looking for is "use digital signatures".
 
heh
the answer is simple
the question is broad/woolly/undefined
 
@RoryAlsop well, sure, because he is not familiar with digsigs.
its like "I need to protect the secrecy of some information. I would use something like a passcode, but stronger, to enable only me to access the information; anyone without the passcode wouldnt be able to. Isn't there some tool out there that would do this for me??"
A: "Yes, duh, it's called encryption. Go look that up, it solves it very well".
 
I've just plugged Sec.SE in a talk
I'm surprised how little known Sec.SE is. Even amongst security experts such as ones involved with OWASP
 
@Adnan that's terrible. Is RoryM wearing a Sec.SE t-shirt? :-)
 
@RoryAlsop He's not
 
11:20 AM
obviously means we need to try harder
 
aand aaaand.. I already tried and asked to get t-shirts, SE people never even answered me
I sent a request about 3 months ago
 
@Adnan shameful.
@Adnan yeah, I've noticed this too. I've been pushing it on occasion, but its more like "hum, thats interesting..."
 
@AviD I mentioned it occasionally in some talk today
 
Thomas Ptacek was harassing OWASP for not using SE resources, specifically regarding the crypto guide. many of the OWASPers were "oh wow, didnt know that! please help!"
 
then somebody asked me to talk more about it, and I gave an on-the-spot 30-min presentation on SE and Sec.SE in particular
 
11:23 AM
@Adnan good for you!
@Adnan you giving a talk? or just random conversation?
 
@AviD No, somebody else was giving the talk and he asked for suggestions on something
I suggested an idea, and mentioned Sec.SE
and the dude giving the talk asked me to talk about it more if it's possible
@AviD The only reason they were semi-interested was because I suggested applying game theory to OWASP contributions
 
"if only there was some place on the internet, where we could ask all our security questions, and get good answers from experts!"
 
We made a proposal and we're gonna send it up the chain to the OWASP guys
 
"even better if we could vote on the answers! yknow, like stackoverflow..."
 
The Dev Guide and Code Review project leaders made the proposal
They're gonna switch some projects from the Wiki to GitHub
and use GitHub API to measure activity
 
11:26 AM
@Adnan excellent. Interestingly enough, I had mentioned something like that to one of them a while ago, also why I stopped working on it
 
and reward active members with free admission to events and maybe free training
 
@AviD Am I the only one feeling that the number of actual experts actually answering questions on the main site has dropped recently?
 
@Adnan that's some stellar work! :*
 
well, "stopped" almost before I started.... that and lack of time.
@Kisunminttu TWSS! ;-)
yes yes, I know, hence the humor in it.
 
@TerryChia That's very true. You got @Lucas and @RoryM almost stopped answering
 
11:27 AM
@TerryChia I stopped a while ago, but then I'm not an "actual expert".
 
Haven't seen anything from @Codes lately
and, there's the most expert of all, myself, I've stopped
 
@Adnan I think he meant expert on security.
 
In all seriousness, some of the answers (except from @Thomas of course) to the questions I randomly clicked were embarrassing.
 
@TerryChia Please show examples so we can improve
 
have I mentioned I hate doing contracts?
 
11:29 AM
@AviD Oh, I thought he meant the art of love making
 
especially rental contracts.
@Adnan you always do.
 
@Adnan I can't remember any off the top of my head (I was just randomly clicking stuff). I stopped really paying attention to new answers nowadays.
 
@TerryChia I kind of agree with you. I haven't seen an answer by one of our top 15 lately
 
@Adnan am I one of those?
I just really barely have time for anything lately.
I think I might take a regular full time employee type of job. I would have so much more free time.
 
@AviD So you'll become one of us?
 
11:33 AM
@Adnan depends what you mean by "us"?
Perverts?
Finnish?
Terrorists?
 
@AviD You already are a pervert
 
@Adnan true, was gonna say
 
@AviD and you already are sort of a terrorist
 
am I?
 
@AviD I mean day jobbers
 
11:34 AM
@Adnan ah that.
dunno, maybe. I would consider it.
probably still be timeshifted out of my timezone, though.
 
@AviD Can't you just take less jobs if you are overwhelmed?
 
That's just how I roll.
@TerryChia not really overwhelmed, and I do often take some downtime.
but lots of demands for my time, and I have to keep juggling several different balls in the air.
hurhur, he said "balls in the air".
 
@Adnan you have the link to the stack swag form, right?
 
@AviD More consistent time with the family, easier to follow on your hobbies, etc.
 
@Adnan not sure about that part, though. Since I (usually) work from my home office, I can pop upstairs for lunch with the kids. Just did that today...
 
11:38 AM
@RoryAlsop The Google Docs form, right?
I had it and used it
No answer
 
@Adnan I think the big difference would be a consistently defined limit to how much time I actually spend on working.
 
@Adnan erm - yeah, sorry
@Adnan yes, that one
wonder why
if you use it again, tell me and I can ping in the teachers lounge
 
also, I would be working on one single track at a time (or maybe a set of related tracks). As opposed to running in several different, unrelated directions, with different clients pushing their demands.
 
@RoryAlsop Oh, we don't need anymore information about mainframe security. ;)
 
oh, and all the damn administrative overhead, of being an independant.
 
11:40 AM
@TerryChia pffffft. Of course we do.
 
nope
no more Star Trek
this is so boring
I'm going to watch Stargate again
 
@TerryChia hahaha, nice.
 
@AviD Exactly. Limiting your work time allows to be more focused on other things when you're not working. Now, you're just basically working all the time
at any time
That's very mentally demanding
 
@Adnan yeah, pretty much exactly.
 
you're mentally demanding
 
11:41 AM
@kalina Indeed I am. @Kisu can confirm
 
and while I dont exactly spend a substantial amount of time marketing, I do work a lot of pipelines in parallel.
 
@Adnan I already have my confirmation, I wasn't asking, I was making a statement!
 
so there is the non-work work-related work that takes a lot of time and head space, too.
 
@AviD and especially if it's something you'd enjoy. Being in a company takes a lot of the overhead
accounting, managing subcontractors, etc.
It has its upsides and downsides
 
11:43 AM
yes, absolutely.
 
I'm sure you already know that
 
biggest problem for me is that I am a helpless cynical git. I cannot bring myself to commit to anything for a non-trivial amount of time, unless I totally believe in it. Seeing as I am just short of being a nihilist, this is tricky for me.
 
...
nobody cares when I post something that's actually relevant to the channel here
 
@AviD possibly rebase yourself
 
but when I talk about angel cake I get stars
4
explain yourselves
 
11:45 AM
I came very close to taking a job, on more than one occasion, mostly with top-line companies. Managed to save myself just in time.
@Nick that's disgusting!
@kalina we're just surprised, is all.
 
sigh
 
@AviD you said your a cynical git... i had to say that xD
 
@kalina What's angel cake?
 
@Adnan I would presume it's a type of cake.
 
@Nick oh the reason I am cynical is because I have seen and experienced enough stupid snake oil to know that is the majority.
@TerryChia made out of angels.
 
11:47 AM
@Nick rm -rf .git/
 
Anybody used SDL Threat Modeling Tool from Microsoft?
 
or does it have some strange angles?
 
@Adnan a naked angel covered in cake
 
@Adnan yeah
 
@TerryChia nahhhh that does nothing, sudo rm -rf / --no_preserve_root
 
11:48 AM
@TerryChia ohhh, is that what he meant.
@Adnan what about it?
 
@AviD I"m writing a management-friendly security summary of a system. My project manager is insisting on using that tool. Is it any good?
 
"good" depends for what...
 
@AviD i ment git rebase ;p
 
@AviD He told me to use to "Generate fancy charts, graphs, and diagrams. Management love those!"
 
@kalina works for me
 
11:50 AM
@kalina Screw you!
 
I use it to build ad-hoc DFD's, with the focus on trust boundaries. I also use it as kind of a backup to my memory to run through STRIDE-per-element when doing threat models.
 
@Adnan it's okay for that purpose, yes
and it's actually an okay process flow
 
@FEichinger I shouldn't google for that?
 
@AviD Sooooooo much buzzwords in that one sentence.
 
@Adnan graphs yes, charts and diagrams not so much.
 
11:51 AM
@kalina Good thing I have that image now firmly planted in my head, the other one my brain constructed is purely ohgogwhydidIthinkofthatagain
 
@RoryAlsop @AviD Can I whip out a couple of diagrams with a couple of hours of work from it?
 
@TerryChia nooo techy words you dont understand. dont make em buzzwords....
 
@Adnan pretty much, yeah :-)
 
@Adnan sure, if you know the system architecture.
and assuming you know what you're doing...
 
Alright, thanks.
 
11:52 AM
the graphing part is basically Visio, with a modified toolkit.
 
@AviD Security stuff, yes I know, but the tool itself I have no clue
 
@Adnan The bear is usually faster than me in answering crypto questions on security.se. No point in posting a redundant answer.
 
for those of you who aren't in a position to sponsor my wee daughter, she has been entered in a Mountain Warehouse competition, where votes will determine the winner, who will then get a cash prize towards their charity. Anybody fancy voting, please do: mountainwarehouse.com/charity/entries/…
 
is she raising money for snacks??
 
@AviD sort of, yes
:-P
 
11:56 AM
@RoryAlsop but joking aside - totally WOW on her.
 
@AviD she's a wonderful nutter
 
@RoryAlsop I would expect nothing else from your kids ;-)
 
@AviD His kids are probably older than you. They just age slower.
 
hahaha
so this is new. Recruiter spam from... the GCC. That's the arab countries in the Persian Gulf, right? How the hell would I be able to work there?
funny, the guy looks just like @Adnan. but he's from UAE. Strange....
 
@AviD hehheh
 
12:06 PM
@RoryAlsop I don't see a vote button
 
you must be blind.
 
THE VOTE BUTTON IS MISSING
 
@kalina scroll down - it says Vote Now
 
yeah I don't see that, one of my plugins must be disappearing the button
 
it's a big green button that says "Vote Now". That's the vote button.
 
12:07 PM
@kalina how about on this main page:
 
FINE I'll use internet explorer
 
@RoryAlsop she's in the lead! woohoo!
 
I hope you, as a security professional, feel bad making me bypass all of my security to commit vote fraud
 
@kalina In which case, thanks very much. (I despise having to go to IE for something)
 
FWIW, I'm not seeing the button either.
 
12:07 PM
@RoryAlsop buncha troglodytes.
 
@RoryAlsop That's awesome. My father's a pediatric rheumatologist, so I grew up around juvenile arthritis of all manner.
 
@FEichinger it's on the second link he linked
 
@AviD not quite - I see ones that have quite a few votes
 
I still don't see it on the first page
and it asked for an email address!
YOU WANT ME TO GIVE OUT A LEGITIMATE EMAIL ADDRESS?
 
@kalina erm.... you must have some spare, right?
 
12:09 PM
@RoryAlsop ohh. I thought it was sorted by votes....
 
this is an outrage
 
it's only an outdoors clothing and supplies company...
sorry
 
even my own mother doesn't have my email address
 
you don't have one.
 
I do technically
the individual I popped out of is still alive
 
12:11 PM
you motherless goat. your father smelled of elderberries.
2
umm no, I think I'm mixing my insults.
 
@RoryAlsop Is there still a way to sponsor as well, or is that done?
 
I think JustGiving keep the site open for 3 months after an event
 
anybody read that Stephen king story "The Long Walk" ?
 
So she has £1300 on the site, about £500 offline, and my work is adding £250 - it's all good
 
fine I have done the thing
 
12:13 PM
@AviD I'm not reading that to Lexie
 
all future email to that address will be sent to /dev/null
 
it was awful!!
 
@kalina Thanks. Karma suggests you will get cake!
 
I am the cake.
I am an angel
 
(but the cake is a lie)
 
12:14 PM
@RoryAlsop who's Karma? she sounds nice.
 
angel cake is an angel covered in cake
do you not get it
 
@kalina so if the cake is a lie, this suggests you are a naked angel?
 
FINE WHATEVER
star trek voyager is a crap show as well
 
@kalina yes
 
@RoryAlsop the cake isn't a lie, it is delicious moist cake
I refuse to watch the original series because it's too old
 
12:15 PM
@kalina Yep. Very much so.
 
I can't be bothered with terrible cheesy acting and terrible effects
 
Red Dwarf is outside of the lower threshold of what I find acceptable but it gets away with it. Just.
@RoryAlsop Portal is a lie
 
this is the GlaDOS / Jonathan Coulton duet version
 
@RoryAlsop Excellent, thanks.
 
12:21 PM
@Xander Dude - seriously. Thanks!
 
dude
did you just dude?
 
@kalina I do just dude
 
Dude dude dude. Dude.
Dude dude.
 
@kalina I have a certificate. I have my Dudeism ordination
 
12:23 PM
oh no
ashton kutcher without a top on
get it off my screen
 
@RoryAlsop Johnathan Coulton has many talents. Singing well is not one of them.
 
my eyes
MY EYES
I'm blind
 
@Xander true. He writes fun filk songs though
 
@RoryAlsop Yes, yes he does.
 
My kids love Skullcrusher Mountain and Ikea
 
12:24 PM
@kalina NOBODY TALK. KEEP IT ON HER SCREEN.
 
...
 
Wait, no, nevermind, not risking my life over this.
 
edit history is a wonderful thing
it's still on the screen
this is a disaster
anyway
 
@RoryAlsop Sure thing, it's a good cause and she's working hard. She deserves it.
 
I'm not really bothered, I just wanted to pretend you had found my kryptonite
now I know that in my darkest moment, @fei would actually kick me when I'm down
EXPOSED
 
12:27 PM
@kalina lol
 
@kalina Of course I would! Just like you would torture me in unspeakable ways for it.
 
I wouldn't torture you for kicking me in my darkest moment
I'd consume you, entirely, in fire, followed by everybody you've ever known or met
boredom level 10/10
 
@Adnan There has been an answer from @DW just yesterday (or today, depending on time zone)
 
boredom overflow
critical warning: boredom level 11/10
 
@kalina Take a walk around
Fun stuff happen all the time
 
12:33 PM
@Adnan I think the fun stuff actively avoids @kalina.
 
@TerryChia I know that I have my fun stuff avoid @kalina.
 
@kalina If you're having a boredom overflow, shouldn't that be boredom level 0/10, overflow flag active?
 
@Kalina Stop a random person in the street and have a conversation about anything
 
@Adnan if she were to stop a random person to have a conversation about fun stuff, she would likely be arrested for solicitation.
 
@AviD :|
 
12:36 PM
@FEichinger no I handle the overflow and assume 11 for dramatic purposes, since it overflowed
 
If you say "Hello, big guy. Want me to show you some fun time?", then yes
 
@Adnan this never ends well, if I approach a random guy in the street they assume I want sex with them
if I approach a random woman in the street she assumes I'm after her other half
let's just avoid approaching random people
that sounds like a good idea
 
@kalina silly girl, she doesnt know that you're still after sex
 
@AviD I wasn't after sex in the first place!
I have people I can call for that -.-
 
@kalina well, how do you define random? Is pseudo random good enough, or does it need to be cryptographically random?
 
12:38 PM
@AviD you're taking this a little too far now
 
@kalina TWSS!
 
@kalina I don't know, I do that all the time
 
I will define "random" as "anybody I do not already know"
 
Yeah, most of the time I get weird looks and people telling me to fuck off
 
@Adnan you are a guy
@Adnan seriously, if a random girl walked up to you and started talking to you in the street, would you tell her to fuck off?
actually, *you* are probably the wrong person to ask
 
12:40 PM
@kalina thats probably half correct.
 
@AviD -.-
 
@kalina I wouldn't say fuck off, to anybody.. guy or girl
 
you know I'm right.
 
@AviD of course I do, I've already said as much
 
@Adnan you just did! just now!
 
12:41 PM
But most of the time I have somewhere I have to be, and usually I'll politely say that I'm busy
when I'm just strolling around or waiting for something, I have no problem talking to a guy or a girl
 
"I'm busy right now. Can you call me tonight? Or just stop by."
 
Throughout the years, I've stopped hundreds of people in the streets, and only rarely I've ever thought "I wanna have sex with them"
 
@Adnan a guy stopping a girl in the street is a completely different thing to the other way around
 
and I've been approached on buses/trains by ladies and guys and I've rarely thought "They want to have sex with me"
 
the two acts are physically the same act, but the different sexes form different preconceptions about what the stopping is about
 
12:44 PM
Unless the lady is being obviously flirtatious
@kalina I'm from the different sex, and I don't assume every lady stopping me in the street wants to have sex with me
and many people think the same
 
@Adnan you're obviously wrong
 
@Kalina I guess it's just because you think every guy who stops you wants to have sex with, you seem to think that when you stop a guy he'll think about that.
So, honestly, the problem is you
 
@Adnan I haven't ruled that out as a possibility
 
@kalina and I'm just asserting it
 
@kalina My assumption is never that they want anything other than what they are asking. This has led to me being surprised a couple of times.
 
12:48 PM
@RoryAlsop That's the exact opposite of me. I always assume they have an ulterior motive, but that I can rarely surmise what that is.
Doesnt stop me from being surprised on ocassion, though...
 
@AviD heh
 
@RoryAlsop and I guess that's only very few times, no?
 
I always assume people are shitbags. Works for me.
3
 
@AviD You should always assume that their ulterior motive is nefarious. That they're just trying to distract you so their partner can rob you. Always check your six.
 
@Adnan I lose count, or I forget - some time ago...
 
12:49 PM
@FEichinger same
 
@Xander this works too :-)
 
it's probably that assumption that resulted in this conversation
however, it keeps me sane
 
> Always mind your surroundings.
 
spatial awareness and knowing where the exits are
 
@FEichinger I always assume that shitbag people are shitbags
 
12:50 PM
Random person stopping me to talk? Get the hell out of my way.
 
@kalina and what objects can be used as weapons
 
"If it comes down to it, will I actually survive jumping through that window and falling 6ft into the carpark"
 
@Xander actually, I dont usually assume nefariousness. Doesnt mean I dont prepare and watch out anyway.
@Adnan That's racist.
 
enter a building I've never been in before, locate the exits, the weapons, spot all the people, watch which routes they're taking
 
@AviD Shitbaggery doesn't know a race
 
12:51 PM
@kalina this maybe does mean that you will be well prepared in the event of the zombie apocalypse, but doesn't it require an awful lot of effort that could otherwise be used being less bored?
 
@AviD Yeah, I don't really either. I typically default to assuming extroverted-ness. Nafariousness isn't that far behind though.
 
@kalina always sit with your back to the wall and facing the entrance.
 
@kalina I hate that I'm relating to you
 
@kalina always locate exits, sure, but weapons? really?
@AviD I do that because you get to check out the folks passing by...
 
@RoryAlsop You never know
 
12:52 PM
spot all the CCTV cameras, the guards, people of authority, check to see if they're looking at me like I'm innocent or wary of my presence
 
@kalina aaand I'm semi-horny now
5
 
@Xander Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.
 
@Adnan true - but I'm confident I'm 99.9% correct
 
@RoryAlsop yes, in a split second I want to be able to defend myself if the need arises
 
... or cluelessness.
 
12:52 PM
@Adnan ಠ_ಠ
 
If I'm walking down the street, and a guy is walking on the other side of the street
 
@AviD Yes, that too. I find it to be regularly true.
 
@FEichinger We discovered some ASCII list haven't we?
 
I will speed up, locate the darkest tightest route I can and prepare to sprint
if they cross the road, I tense up
 
@kalina I was with you until this. Better to prepare an active defence.
 
12:53 PM
@Adnan No, actually I have had that in my button script for ages.
 
@FEichinger That's actually non-sarcastically cool
 
@AviD I am tiny, I know my physical limitations and I know that against a guy my size or larger I will lose
 
@kalina what's that thing you like to remind us all? It's not the size that counts?
 
@AviD size matters when you're being pinned down
 
12:55 PM
 
@kalina What are you doing tonight?
 
@AviD Hmm. So, since the purpose of defense is to end the threat and disengage, running away is a very viable option in many cases.
 
I actually, never mind, tonight we have the OWASP pre-party
 
@Adnan stop hitting on me
 
12:56 PM
@kalina am I? Is that how guys it on you?
Poor you
 
sorry for the crappy quality. first link I grabbed.
 
@AviD We never really expect quality from you
 
@Xander ANd especially if you are tiny, or likely to come off worst in close contact, this is a really good piece of advice
 
true. that is my safety vest.
@RoryAlsop better is to call a cop, or run into a crowd.
 
@AviD agreed
 
12:58 PM
@AviD calling the police does nothing
 
@Xander I completely agree
 
I wouldn't go the 'darkest' route
 
I never go into fights that I'm sure I'll lose
 
@RoryAlsop I would, I have dark brown hair and wear dark clothes, I'd become invisible
 
unless you run a lot, all you are likely to do by running away is to tire yourself out. Have less chance of defending yourself when he does catch up.
 
12:58 PM
Threat mitigation with the easiest way possible
@kalina Do you have dark skin?
 
@Adnan and yet you keep picking on @kalina.
 
@AviD Oh, come on. Kalina would never be able to take me in a fight
Or any other way
 

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