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00:06
well, that was just one outtake. in general, I mostly enjoy everyone on the show. Except for Joffrey.
And Sansa, when she opens her mouth.
00:50
@thelionroars1337 - By 'we' I meant me, you, everyone that read your question and didn't have any additional information, and all the literature that all of us have ever read on the topic (refers to this three-factor authentication paradigm in the same way) yet fails to credit any author for it (which is rare and inexcusable in scientific and other expert publications). Google, or other search engines, are none the wiser either. I think it's fairly safe to ascertain my assumption can be read in the broadest meaning of 'we'. ;) — TildalWave 3 mins ago
Too snarky?
 
1 hour later…
01:51
@AviD I haven't seen last night's episode yet, but in general I agree. Except for Margaery. The actress that plays her annoys the fuck out of me.
 
1 hour later…
02:53
@Griffin I learn about ten times as much hanging out here compared to school.
 
3 hours later…
06:16
-1
Q: definitive resources about ISPs' networks

psychoI've searched round the net. but didn't find any effectiveness! My question is, what are some good resources like books, docs and other related stuff in order to gain some knowledge about what the underlying infrastructures of ISPs are. My preferred issues include: how to hack an ISP due to its ...

burn it
06:31
@LucasKauffman Now I want a SO clipboard so I don't have to constantly hold back and pretend I'm polite :)
06:50
If you're running a pentest how do you know where to draw the line for physical intrusion? Would most testers count lockpicking to get into a network closet as fair game?
@ekaj erh that depends on the scope of the engagement
meh true
I tend to think of things like that when I can't go to sleep, lol
@LucasKauffman mind if I ask what schooling you've had / are in so far?
@ekaj I did my bachelors degree in applied computer science (3 years), I'm probably going to do my masters degree next year
What field are you wanting to head into?
I'm already in the field :p
06:58
=p well what do you do? lol
as in work
@ekaj You usually discuss this stuff in a kick-off meeting and decide what is/isn't in scope
@ekaj security consultant, mostly attack and penetration testing
@D3C4FF Thankya =p
I'd like to go into pentesting but I'm just starting my bachelors degree
Don't bother with a degree, i didn't
:P
Well, i guess you could, but i didn't see much point to it, different for everyone though i guess...
I seriously wouldn't mind dropping out of college =p if I could just get certifications like CE, CISSP, or whatever I would
07:02
@ekaj I've got zero certifications. That's right. ZERO! :O
Problem is I'm in a small town and college is the first time I've been in a large network and actually had a few people who understood computers more than word processing
Well, actually, i've technically got a C|EH cert, but we don't talk about that...
technically? =p
@D3C4FF Shame on you!
@TerryChia I know :( Work made me get it so i could show silly clients SOMETHING...
07:04
Do people generally not like the CEH cert?
I didn't know/care either way when i did it, then i did it, realised it was actually a joke and someone somewhere's making money out of handing out paper.
@ekaj dropping out of college isn't a smart thing to do as having a degree is often the first step to get into a company, certificates do not really matter at that point. Also you will need the basic knowledge to get a broad understanding how everything works from networks to programming
@ekaj To answer your first question more accurately, there's been one instance where network pen-testing has also included lock-picking for me (which is a shame cause I'm quite a lock-pick :D )
I'd possibly just like another college.. this one has a great CS teacher, but there's only one teacher, lol. and I can lock pick a bit, I'm not too good at it though =p
@LucasKauffman @ekaj I agree more or less, i got my jobs via my reputation and having started work when i was 16 y/o.
07:07
@ekaj lock picking isn't going to be a determining factor :p
>.> I think my dialup internet until like two years ago really limited me.. looking up info on dialup sucks =p
I can't for example, travel overseas and settle somewhere else without getting a degree for example (well, maybe i could, but it would be luck/word of mouth)
@D3C4FF yea but you have work experience then
@ekaj duuude.... D:
The internet signal overshoots my house.. so we put an engenius router on my brothers house a half mile down the road and one on ours, and we share internet that way now =p
07:08
@ekaj where do you live o.O?
West Virginia, lol - there's a big hill right beside my house though, so it barely overshoots it
@ekaj duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude....... D:
The horrors!!! ;__;
Bah some have it worse
What would you all say are some of the better certs then?
@ekaj OSCP, OSCE
if you have the cash, SANS 542, 560 and 642, 660
I'll read about those some tomorrow
07:12
@D3C4FF Zero certs here also... worked for many govt's, gov't contractors, security pass class xzy,.... not a single cert would've ever helped me do my stuff any better (except lose some more time) LOL
but SANS is a little bit... hyped
It's not like I'll be taking them any time soo, I'd just be interested in what they're about
If you can select certification, make sure it's mixed gender classes, at least you won't be bored to death attending! ;)
lol =p
@TildalWave Yeah, that shit takes time, time i could be spending learning relevant things to my job!
07:15
@D3C4FF exactly! I'm not of course counting those compulsory tests for internal certification... that's different... but the external booze seanses... that's useless
Internal certification?
Of which tests do you speak?
@D3C4FF all kinds really, even psychological evaluation if needed... depends on what's required... these I'm fine with... the more, the more interesting the project will be... plus you get to laugh about it a lot :)
@TildalWave Ah right, yeah i wouldn't call that a test per say. I can't recall ever having to study for any psych evals i've been to :P
@D3C4FF lol no you don't study ... they study you ;)
Or do i study them while they think they're studying me but actually we're both pretending to study eachother and our studying ends up being everyone studying themselves???
07:19
@D3C4FF you forgot study.
@D3C4FF How does that make you feel?
I just wanted to see how much times i could put the word study in a sentence...
I was usually busy studying what anatomy they're hiding under their clothes
3
@LucasKauffman I feel like studying
@TildalWave Psychs always seem to be either old wise men or hot babes who've just finished psych degrees :D
I get on with both well ^_^
@D3C4FF I had it two times, both a total babe... I was drooling, but that was fine it was for some military access class, those are all drooling anyway if they see a woman, regardless how she looks like :)
07:22
Yeah, but defence chicks... DAYUM...
'Dat uniform!
they aren't military themselves... just trusted experts
at least here
@TildalWave I literally just did the Carry On ... "oooohhhh maaatron" thing.
@Polynomial I need subtitles for this one, I'm not that old ya'know :P
OK, I'm old enough to know what Carry On is, which is plenty old anyway :)
basically there was a matron in the movie, and her skirt always used to get blown up, and she'd always say double-entendres without knowing what she was saying
and the main guy would say "oooohhhhh maaatron" in a croning voice
ah yeah... found it on YouTube... goodens oldens :) I loved "Lipstick on your Collar"
07:37
Linky link?
I've NFI what you old folks are on about
ACK! Someone just turned the lights on which has awoken me to the fact it's well dark O_O
@D3C4FF might take you a while to watch them all... youtube.com/watch?v=D0VRKZTjRzQ&list=PLEC49A346A3D0C068
this would be an appropriate moment for "ACK, MEIN AUGEN!"
oh yeah
@RoryMcCune Tim Brown says hi, btw
0
A: Can I determine if my computer has a key logger installed?

НЛО Create GMail account with no 2 step authorization (not from friend' laptop). Log in with you friend' laptop into GMail web interface (type username/pass manually). Create new mail with subj some reports from %companyname%, attach some dummy .docs and .pdfs, type "dave123@another-company-in-your-...

inventive, but flawed
@Polynomial cool :) that you settled in now? have they got you on tests yet?
@RoryMcCune doing research atm
gonna shadow some tests at some point, once my *nix-fu is up to scratch
using Tim Brown's patented "get in the fucking deep end" method.
anyway, speaking of work, I'm off
laters .o/~
07:52
@Polynomial heh yeah Tim does love a bit of unix.....
Hello there Liondancer
@Poly have you watched Off Their Rockers?
08:48
@JeffFerland I disagree with closing this question as a dupe.
0
Q: Is compiled code more of a security risk than interpreted code?

sybindIs compiled code more of a security risk than interpreted code? I'm under the impression that it is due to the fact that compiled code can hide malicious code from malware scans.

They are totally different.
 
1 hour later…
10:46
@CodesInChaos flagged to migrate
 
1 hour later…
11:48
@ThomasPornin Do you feel that the distinction between a Dos and DDoS attack is irrelevant?
12:02
@TerryChia Most of the time, I would. DoS attacks come in many different flavours. Most of these are easily blocked by identifying attack packets manually and adding the source IP addresses to a firewall. The attacker's way around this is to use lots of different IP addresses. But it's still basically the same DoS attack underneath.
E.g. DNS amplification= from my IP address I dump the dns of ripe.org on your server. Might be DoS if you have a bad link (e.g. home broadband). To make that worse, I use a bunch of servers. Probably DDoS.
The only time there's a difference is when the attack packets are exactly the same as legitimate packets. Then, the only way to identify them is by quantity. Using lots of IP addresses makes even the quantity from any one IP address the same as legitimate traffic.
@Ladadadada Well, for that particular question - I think he is asking about malformed packets ala ping of death instead of the common syn flood attacks nowadays.
1
Q: How a DOS TCP packet different from normal Packet?

messi fan a normal tcp packet shown in figure How a TCP packet that causes dos attack different from normal Tcp Packet?

So I feel that while The Bear's answer is perfectly correct, it isn't really what the asker wants.
@TerryChia Oddly he doesn't seem to be interested in the data portion of the TCP packet, which is where most non-bandwidth-exhaustion DoS attacks are these days.
@Ladadadada The question strikes me as very homework-like.
12:16
@TerryChia It's not the question a sysadmin would ask.
@Ladadadada If a sysadmin had to ask, I would question his credentials as a sysadmin.
Incidentally, I did have a DDoS a while back and for a few hours, the traffic switched to be all coming from port 1234. That made it quite easy to block.
heh
it's tools like bwraep that I worry about
potentially costly for bandwidth-limited sites.
Apart from that, there were about 100,000 IP addresses hitting us at about 1 per second each, so putting together a blocklist of 100,000 was the general strategy.
heh
grep ftw
12:20
@Polynomial what, you didn't type it out by hand? LAME!
12:43
@LucasKauffman Two questions: 1) What is your primary language, I see three listed for your country, and I've got it narrowed down to two. 2) Was that tweet of yours actually that language? Because I have to say, it looked like what someone might mockingly say in a sitcom to spoof German.
@TerryChia A DDoS is a sub-category of DoS, namely a DoS which works (better, or at all) thanks to the use of a lot of remote clients. The distinction between DoS and DDoS is about the same that the distinction between "computing" and "distributed computing": relevant... where it matters.
@TerryChia Well, when you think about "DoS through malformed packets", you instinctively think "ping of death", not "TCP of death".
I am not aware of a DoS attack using malformed TCP packets which would be as famous as the "ping of death" (which has been fixed 15 years ago).
Anyone heard of the "InfoSecurity Europe" conference? I vaguely remember seeing a flyer for it last year but then deciding it was just vendors pushing "solutions" at CSOs.
I'm looking at the signup form and their opt-out process is one of the sneakiest I've ever seen and the fine print says that attending any session or by having your visitor badge scanned by an exhibitor (or an exhibitor stand) is opting in to receiving communications from them.
SSL provides message authentication, right? not just bare AES CBC?
@lynks SSL provides message integrity (almost the same thing).
roughly speaking, SSL guarantees that the all data bytes received by the server (resp. the client) have been sent, in that order and with no missing byte, by the same client (resp. server) all along.
@ThomasPornin ahh yes, thanks. i had a moment of self doubt
12:55
Each encrypted record has its MAC (normally HMAC with TLS 1.0+).
Oh, yay! That bounty got me Mortarboard!
hehe
hiya there
@Iszi You are just getting that now? :P
@Iszi So you are now 2% Epic.
@ThomasPornin Not quite. He got mortarboarded, he didn't repcap.
13:10
@ScottPack The count for epicness is based on reaching +200 in a day, not on reaching the rep cap.
Well spank my ass and call me Susan. You're right.
I must be pretty epic then.
;)
@Polynomial See for yourself on security.stackexchange.com/reputation
see the day count on "earned at least 200 reputation" (near the end)
@Polynomial So you are 126% Epic (since you get the Epic badge at 50 days)
13:12
yay!
Only 87 days of effort to get to Legendary status, then.
\o/
before I become a Leg End
@ThomasPornin Also, now only 1k away from the 10k barrier!
@Ladadadada yeah know it well.. its a vendor-fest :).. i go sometimes to keep an eye on whats happening in the industry.. Of course nearby is the Portcullis arms where I expect @Polynomial will be spending some "quality" time
@Iszi Oh yeah, the fabled "moderator tools".
13:15
@RoryMcCune maybe. I might not be at infosec.
I'm planning on booking the time off in advance so I can go to BSides London instead :P
(mwa ha haar)
@ThomasPornin Also the ability to see what mods hide behind that curtain known as "deletion".
@Polynomial yeah but you can get into the arms ... was nice last time I went (back when I worked for a bank and they would let me in :) )
13:41
@AviD (sigh) still with that :D
14:17
@ScottPack It was dutch
My native tongue is dutch as well :)
My german is quite rusty though
Dutch was my first guess, but that was purely instinctual. I'm pretty sure I could hear the difference, but I'm not sure I could see it.
@ScottPack The germans generally use these: ü ä ß ö
which is not something you will see in dutch
i always envy people who grew up in switzerland, they're virtually guaranteed to be trilingual.
@LucasKauffman So you're too sexy for your umlaut?
@LucasKauffman Ooh.. you're German is rusty? Tell me how rusty your German is?
Slowly..
14:21
@Adnan Mein Deutsch ist sehr FeO2
4
@ScottPack actually we spell the german "u" like "oe" and the german "ü" as "u"
@LucasKauffman Did you just Well Actually me?
@ScottPack not intentionally
but I suppose I did
@Polynomial Jesus Christ. I asked, you answered, I wasn't disappointed.
14:34
@LucasKauffman I'll allow it. This time.
@ScottPack Thank you mr. Pack sir.
anyone know perl?
@Polynomial What do you need to know, bigboy?
got a file here that starts with use /usr/local/.../some/directory
@Polynomial I know enough to stay away from it.
14:35
any idea what it means? why would it do a use on a dir?
sorry, use lib /...
I've not seen that before. If I had to guess it would pull in all modules within that directory?
interesting
@Polynomial stay away from Perl, it is the devil's language!
5
Oh, that's different!
lib is a special case
So the form for that is use lib LIST; where LIST is a list of directories, space delimited.
and that pulls in all modules from that dir?
14:37
That adds each directory to the @INC variables, which is the module search path.
so when it does a require you might be able to modify the packages by putting stuff in those dirs?
It's intended to be a "cleaner" way of fiddling with @INC.
@ScottPack Nothing about perl is clean. :)
14:39
require is used to specify that a specific version of perl
So, for instances, if you had a program that required a special weird version of perl installed in, say, /opt/versions/polynomial/perlduggery/perl-4.1 you could do the following
use lib '/opt/versions/polynomial/perlduggery/';
require v4.1;
And then your script would, effectively, run everything out of your special directory.
can i make a quick poll of c programmers; char* str;, char *str; or char * str;
char* str for me
@lynks void *str;
I think that the pointer is part of the type, so it should be attached as such.
@lynks char* str
it just looks cleaner.
14:43
@Polynomial then how would you do multiple declarations per line?
the 3rd one is just weird.
@lynks I wouldn't.
@TerryChia yeah it seems to come up fairly regularly though
@lynks I think that's poor practice for readability, unless you're allocating a large number of simple types (e.g. int)
@Polynomial yeah i tend to only use it for the 'boilerplate' types, eg int x, i;
14:44
@lynks char *str;
I agree with @Terry and @Thomas.
Because C type declarations are inductive.
@ScottPack what?
You don't write "str has type 'char *'"; you write: "str is such that '*str' has type 'char'"
@TerryChia That char * str is just weird and that anything except char *str is the devil's work.
14:46
@ThomasPornin ahh thats a nice way of thinking
@Polynomial Did that brief perl primer help, make sense, complete your question?
@lynks It's worse than a way of thinking: it is how the C compiler thinks.
@ScottPack yup
@ThomasPornin although i do agree with @Polynomial in that my usual thinking is that str is a char pointer hence char* str
@Polynomial I assume you're looking at someone else's code and ran into that?
I always considered it that '*str is a pointer to a char" which I think is the same meaning as what @Thomas said. I never really considered how the compiler worked it out.
14:53
char *foo[100] defines an array of 100 pointers (to char)
char (*foo)[100] defines a pointer to an array of 100 char
it is clear if you do the inductive thinking; otherwise, it is obscure.
C is already opaque enough as it is.
@Polynomial I should point out that I just read about a use of require for modules. I didn't know about that one. perldoc.perl.org/functions/require.html
Anybody can recommend some buttery Chardonnay for pasta dishes?
15:09
@lynks I always use char* thing for the reason @Poly says - it's part of the type. Actually, technically, all pointers are the same thing, but the bit before the * is what it will (try to) dereference it as (which does affect what asm gets generated).
By contrast, the name bit does not affect the asm in any way whatsoever.
@ScottPack No, seriously. Any idea? Since you're an experienced drinker.
@Adnan I don't really get all that into pairings. I'm also not that into chardonnay.
I can cope with any of the three, however, if you wish to drive me nuts, do this: typedef void * PVOID;
@AntonyVennard Technically, all pointers need not be the same thing, and in particular were not the same thing on 16-bit x86 (back in the days of MsDos).
@ThomasPornin well, true. But these days segmented memory is pretty much dead - you can't use it on x64 without really bad things happening.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned it's all good either way unless you typedef away the *. Then, I'm an unhappy person.
15:20
@Adnan try J.P. Chenet
It's relatively cheap and is very sweet
What up security
Whoa, @AntonyVennard! :D long time no see!
So I have a semi legit reason for visiting -- I've been seeing the Shodan search engine getting a ton of press lately. It made the front page of CNN yesterday. There's not much on Sec.SE about Shodan at all. Could we ask a question like, "How can I prevent devices on my network from being accessed by a search engine like Shodan?" Or would such a question be NC?
@Aarthi Hello! I'm busy being not constructive here between compiles. So, how are you?!
@Aarthi you didn't do it just for love? :(
15:26
Way to make us feel used.
Aw guys. Y'all know I love all our sites equally. I can't pick favorites.
@AntonyVennard BUSY! We hit 100 sites recently. Things are kinda zany!
@Aarthi You must be a parent to pull that off with a straight face.
@Aarthi Yeah. I started checking sec.se regularly again and I did have a poke at some other sites. There's lots of them now.
jrg
jrg
@Aarthi that looks strangely unsettling.
@Aarthi We blatantly have the best design, hands down.
Jin loves us.
15:27
@ScottPack I'm not a parent. Though I am always reminded of a scene in Wimbledon (the Paul Bettany film) where Jon Favreau's character says, "That's like asking me which of my kids I love more. Which of my kids do I love more? My daughter."
@Aarthi It could be fairly open, but I don't think it's terrible.
@AntonyVennard lions!
@jrg right?! it's kinda horrifying
Shodan is a pretty cool project.
@ScottPack chinstroke Can I make it more specific? I'm not really a security pro...
@Aarthi From what I know of shodan, you can't stop your machine from being indexed if it's public facing.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
jrg
jrg
15:29
@TerryChia it's just like nmap.
@Aarthi Well, it's kid of like, "How do I prevent web sites from indexing my web site?"
Ah.
@jrg yeah, it's basically a huge database of portscan results.
I mean, the easy answer is, "robots.txt bitches!"
laughs
I'm gonna ask it!
jrg
jrg
15:30
so the answer is "sudo shutdown -h now"
I sense a reptrain...
Hmm....I could probably repcap on SO with that answer....
@jrg naw, putting a NAT router in front of it will be way less drastic. ;)
jrg
jrg
@TerryChia it'll detect the upnp crud. probably.
so yes, less drastic, but not as effective.
@AntonyVennard memegenerator is down, which makes me sad, so let's just go with the text version.
15:31
@jrg hell, even pulling the ethernet cable is less drastic.
RELEASE THE REPTRAIN
3
@jrg upnp? You have that garbage enabled?
@ScottPack I prefer the more solemn "A reptrain is coming".
jrg
jrg
@ScottPack I don't. But some people do.
@jrg That sounds foolish.
jrg
jrg
some defaults are foolish.
15:33
@ScottPack your face is foolish. ;)
@jrg troof
there, that sounds better.
@jrg iptables -A INPUT -j DROP
you can actually mitigate the risk of shodan. Basically remove all sensitve information from headers and banners and there's no real risk beyond the disclosure of the service running
if you really really don't want to be found restrict the service to specific source IP address ranges :)
@RoryMcCune Which of course you do anyhow, right?
15:35
@AntonyVennard well of course, I never find info. disclosure issues on tests
Y'know, like taking out Apache/2.2.6x I AM RUNNING UBUNTU WITH A VULNERABLE INFO lines and such
@RoryMcCune Precisely. Tightly restricted firewall rules and don't send ICMP messages on drops. Great Success!
One other thing if you're feeling mega sneeky would be to try and find the netblock for shodan's scanners and block that, but that's probably more security by obscurity....
edit away, team
do your magic!
jrg
jrg
the answer is: THEY WILL ALWAYS FIND YOU.
15:36
HUSH @JRG
jrg
jrg
We Are The Bad Guys. You Will Be Compromised. Resistance Is Futile.
Shut it Sheldon.
jrg
jrg
Shutting up Mr. Pack.
15:38
Go team.
I look forward to seeing how you all respond :)
I gotta respond to meta posts -- bye Sec.SE!
Working on one, but someone will probably come up with a better one before i'm done.
@Aarthi It's been lovely seeing you again!
meh the one @RoryMcCune is good enough. discarding the 3 lines i have so far.
@TerryChia thanks for that ringing endorsement :P
I'm so tempted the downvote the one by @ScottPack.
Just cus it's by @ScottPack.
15:42
@LucasKauffman hmmm, thanks. I never thought sweets would be good with creamy food. I'll give it a try.
$599 for a 960GB SSD.
@TerryChia don't tell me things like that... it's really bad for my bank balance!
2
@RoryMcCune heh. i'm broke after adding the graphics card into my system. gotta wait till the end of the year for any more upgrades.
But it's a good sign that SSD prices are dropping at last.
@TerryChia anyway for that SSD I'd at least wait for the Anandtech review to see what he reckons to it. If it's slim enough it would be awesome to put something like that in a laptop. mmmm laptop with 1TB SSD
@RoryMcCune It's a 2.5" one. I'm not sure what size laptops use.
It appears to be a follow up of the popular M4 SSDs.
15:48
@TerryChia That makes me sad. I was just going for the SE gaming notion of multiple edits to keep your posting time early.
jrg
jrg
2.5, most desktops are 3.5
@jrg Most SSD's are 2.5". They use a mounting bracket to fit it in desktops.
Don't forget 1.8
jrg
jrg
@TerryChia right
@ScottPack i don't know anyone with a 1.8. is that what macs use? ;P
The velicoraptor in my desktop is a 2.5 that fits inside a caddy that's effectively a big freaking heatsink to get it up to 3.5
@jrg No, they use normal 2.5s. The original SSDs were 1.8
jrg
jrg
15:50
oh, interesting. most 1.8 ssd's go into things like chromebooks.
@RoryMcCune Review is already up: anandtech.com/show/6884/…
I just know we had to get interface adapters for the forensics lab.
I still need to get a thunderbolt controller for my desktop.
@TerryChia there's the 7mm/v9.5mm thing but it looks like it's 7mm so it would fit in my laptop...
Why isn't AJ in here? He needs a talking to. ShieldsUp? Seriously.
4
15:52
@TerryChia you really are not helping my bank balance here.
@ScottPack Hah.
Can @jrg mod ping him?
I'll bet @jrg would totally @@ that.
Or can only site-mods do that?
jrg
jrg
i can, but i'd need to be convinced first.
I would buy you a beer the next time you were down this way, but I don't think that would be appreciated.
15:54
@jrg here's a cookie
jrg
jrg
fine, gimme the userid
jrg
jrg
i need to see the cookie first. at which point, you might as well just ask him in here yourself. ;P
@TerryChia Encrypted cookie! :D

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