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8:00 PM
"in [office]"?
Head of public relations "elected" during common era
Now that doesn't make sense in definition, though I like the surface
Noble in (selection indicator for first), and in figure
Noble (something) beginning and in figure
Head of public relations in the beginning of colonial era! (6)
The def is still sketchy
(something) empire
Head of public relations in the origins of Caesar's empire?
and now i'm just hitting wiktionary's random entry button over and over
8:15 PM
Head of "public relations" in the start of crown's expansion (6)
@Deusovi Head of public relations in early Common Era?
i read that as C(PR)E ...?
that definition doesn't really make sense to me
ohhhh i get it
the "in" is literal
Shucks can't use the "head of public relations" joke
8:17 PM
(also "head" is singular and it would need to be plural)
Noble in figure!
and also that defines an adjective, not a noun
gahhh i forgot about those
8:19 PM
I was trying to avoid chat, but I have a question:
A: Double trouble (Python)

Ian MacDonaldYou've included sum(list(map(ord, list(first_question)))), which requires significantly more work to "analyze" than a very simple brute force. sec_one = ['alpha', 'beta', 'gamma', 'delta', 'epsilon', 'zeta', 'eta', 'kappa', 'lambda', 'sigma', 'omega'] sec_two = ['aiko', 'ena', 'chizu', 'hoshi', '...

"third in line" N?
Would someone be able to read the comments under that post?
oh procession?
Am I crazy or is it not too much to ask to know the ASCII values of some basic characters?
@Voldemort'sWrath Idk any python stuff
8:20 PM
that's ok
@Voldemort'sWrath Depends on what you consider "basic"
a-z, A-Z, 0-9
stuff like that
No, I don't think that's unfair
not everyone needs to know that, even if they are a programmer
8:21 PM
and either way you're probably going to want to write code to add all of them up, unless you expect people to do all the arithmetic by hand
I understand that, but what's the big deal with the fact that my program uses the ASCII codes?
ASCII is binary?
Yes, it's great that you code some way to analyze the ASCII values
wait how is ascii binary?
well, when people refer to "binary" they usually mean "binary ascii"
8:22 PM
oh I see
ascii is base-independent though
so... if you could read the comments please and tell me what you think?
@Voldemort'sWrath it seems that you're specifically looking for something "more elegant", but you're requiring people to do a lot of programming to find the values anyway
Yes, you're supposed to do a bit of programming to find them
but you should be able to do some analysis to make your program less complicated beforehand
like look at how the numbers turn out
write a couple math equations
if you want analysis done by hand, then it should be something that's feasible to do by hand - otherwise it's very unclear where your boundary is between "should be programmed" and "should be hand-solved"
8:24 PM
that depends on the solver i don't have a set thing
but I just didn't want it all to be brute force
that's boring
@Voldemort'sWrath did you intentionally design the program to have a 'nice' set of equations?
Oooh! Figure amdist the last of sucession! (6) @Deusovi thoughts? Perhaps a better indicator is needed
(amidst goes the wrong way)
@Deusovi not exactly but that doesn't mean you can't write equations for it
also isn't a prince generally one of the first ones in the succession?
8:25 PM
@Deusovi whoops
@jafe I guess, but the last in line is still a prince?
@Voldemort'sWrath then it seems very unlikely that the equations would work out nicely - you've got a lot of modular arithmetic with different moduli, and you're combining them in weird ways. why do you expect any sort of analysis to produce something useful?
well, I worked them out
and it was possible to whittle it down a bit
and then brute force the remaining, whittled things
it's very unclear when you want people to bruteforce, and if there's no 'elegant' solution all the way through i don't see why people wouldn't just write a program to do it
(have to go for a bit)
okay bye
but if i've commented on this post saying that "hey you should try to do at least some analysis before completely brute forcing" isn't that something they should do?
@jafe Tell that to Prince Philip.
8:28 PM
instead of arguing with me about random things that don't make any sense?
Figure seizing crown at last! (6)
I have a C4 prepared, but I'm not sure if it's too silly and I should try and make a more "serious" one :p
Silly is great
Post it!
I'm not super good at making them so I just wanted to make something funny
CCCC: Brought to Deus's attention: fluffer with two heads! Silver, not young (three-legged, or headless) (7)
8:33 PM
oh geez
and since you pretty much heard me say it before, "floof" is indeed involved
enjoy :D
@Avi How's "Figure seizing crown at last! (6)"
(also for Avi: the two times I left chat today were both when you parroted the comment arguments about why that answer was good. I have already heard all of those arguments. You really, really, really didn't need to pile on)
the king-move optimization problem already has 3 answers that are just "here, I got a position with more moves than the last person". No proofs, or even ideas for proofs, about optimality. Ugh.
I didn't realize that was why you had left, and I apologize for not sticking up for you on that.
's fine. I'm used to using the run-far-away method for problems like that.
8:43 PM
Piling was probably the last thing you needed there
don't see what the issue is with posting an answer if you find an improvement on the previous answer, even if you have no proof
we've discussed it, let's not pile on again
also mick i love that c4
The problem is that there probably isn't a way to optimize or prove optimality other than brute-force - and the OP doesn't know of a way
Thank you, I was hoping it was a unique one :p
8:44 PM
also, dear goodness, Fillomino #9 is on a 20x36 board. I just finished copying it down
Ooh can we see?
haven't tried a Fillomino yet
hang on, zooming out
I just boxed all the 1s, which is an easy first step
holy sh*t
oh my gosh
8:48 PM
I'm reading about it on Wikipedia, it looks like the goal is to divide the grid into polyminoes so each number is part of an n-omino?
I'm working through the beginner pack Deus shared: mellowmelon.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/pack04ff2-v1mgl.pdf
They're really fun, lots of packing logic
are you going to wait until after you finish the Statue Parks?
Yes, I really want to finish the Statue Park pack first
But then I'll try these :D
how far are you?
8:49 PM
#14, hit a wall on it yesterday and took a breather
I thought it was windows, not walls?
it was windows before, this time it was a wall
oh noes
my little bird self got smacked
I have School Stuff (tm) to do right now, so I can't help
8:51 PM
i'm not working on it at the moment, but i'll give it another shot later :)
@bobble Those would be my opinions on why the answer was good. I think it's self-evident but there was no need for those other people to be insulting and/or toxic
That was why bobble needed some space on that, it wasn't the argument itself - it was the nasty comments.
let's just move on from it, no need to pile again.
Nasty comments on what?
mostly deleted now
8:57 PM
@PrinceNorthLæraðr It's at least good enough to read
I'm not sure about the "at" part though
The surface on that one is pretty solid, what is the wordplay?
I'm less sure about the definition, because why would the prince need to sieze the crown?
@Sciborg PRI(+N)CE
and if they are the ones that sieze the crown, then they would be the king
8:58 PM
It's an &lit
@Avi hm
Immediately where you would not want to be when flying (3,3,3)
off the bat, double def :)
I think that's one of my better ones
i imagine a bat big enough to carry a human would be a pretty terrifying sight
It'd be something right out of a fantasy novel
9:13 PM
ugh, no synonym of hut/hovel has k as the next-to-last letter
opinions on MathJax being used just to make some regular text stand out?
@bobble should be edited out
@jafe shakc?
it's super restricting when you have to have a certain letter in a certain position in the clue
9:13 PM
@Deusovi will do
now try making clues with two letters in certain positions and a specific gimmick
@bobble why
@bobble screen reader cannot parse MathJax at all :(
I know that some more expensive advanced screen readers can parse MathJax, but they'll try to read it as math. Which would be not good there anyways
9:15 PM
speaking of which, recently tried to solve "what xkcd means"... holy cow that must have taken forever to write
Which puzzle?
Q: What xkcd Means

DeusoviWhat xkcd Means This is a variety cryptic inspired by the comic "What xkcd Means" (linked above) and the work of Ucaoimhu. It is also an entry into the 35th Fortnightly Topic Challenge: Restricted Title 1. It means saving a few seconds at a long red light via elaborate and questionably legal ma...

@Sciborg backslash intersectionaslashwaldinatorinationalify plus 2 a b
@Sciborg how does(n't) it read it?
@Deusovi - you say that as though "transmitted over the phone" or "horrifying people interested in numbers" make any sense. :) I don't have time to make an attempt right now, but this already looks like an impressive and beautifully constructed puzzle. Thanks for sharing. — Alconja May 30 '18 at 20:35
9:17 PM
@matt Doesn't read it at all, just silence :p
It just gives up
something else for the plugin, i guess
It loses the will to live
"it": the plugin? the screen reader? the mathjax?
the screen reader, it sees math and just says "nope"
9:19 PM
much like me
which i can relate to, honestly
@jafe oh, glad you're having a good time! i've made even more impressive ones since then
(well, more constrained. other people have said they're impressive at least)
Deus, is the C4 true? Has a fluffer "with two heads" which is "silver" and "not young", "three-legged, or headless" been "brought to" your "attention"?
not yet
9:26 PM
kinda hard for it to both be headless and have two heads, you'd think
it's not headless
ah, it can also be two-headed and three-legged
Q: Letter Connections

DenverCoder1What is the connection between each of these pairs and what is the missing letter? A is to G B is to P D is to Q F is to T C is to ? Good luck!

@Sphinx also seems like there should be a better title, but I can't think of one at the moment
9:47 PM
Hm, trying to parse the def
It must be at the front, because "three-legged or headless", "or headless" doesn't make much sense
headless could be the def
and the C4 ends with Young three-legged or?
"or" as a connector?
or could be a connector, or just the letters OR
Hm, didn't consider that, actually
That might make more sense, now I think about that
9:50 PM
pretty sure i know the answer but can't quite get the last part of the wordplay to work
@bobble You're right, it's more like [word-property] but with letters instead of words. I couldn't find a [letter-property] tag though. — DenverCoder1 6 mins ago
anyone got tag suggestions?
FL(-uffer) + AG + (-a)GED
Yup. Figured you would get it, Deus :p
9:50 PM
Yeah, I was almost there...
Technically I intended FL(-oof) but that works too
Ah "Brought to deus's attention"
Huh, I actually suspected flagged but I guess I miscounted the letters
@Sciborg: what does the screen reader think of "lettersd"?
(also, still fishing for tag suggestions)
i'd just go with [pattern] for lack of a better tag
9:52 PM
It actually says "letters" so it must be able to handle some typos
[pattern] sounds like it would fit
it already has [pattern]
Word-property is for, well, words. It might be confusing
and [connections-puzzle] and [letter-sequence]
just remove [word-property] then?
9:53 PM
It has and , I think that should be plenty
should I put something in the edit reason, as a comment, something else...?
Just a comment should suffice, IMO
CCCC: Someone working with you cracked metameta (8)
9:55 PM
yep, not awake enough to write a challenging clue so i threw out a freebie
wow that was fast
about as long as i expected tbh
CCCC: Comic Trump quote about election's conclusion? (5)
@Deusovi Well "you cracked metameta" was kinda funny though
9:56 PM
@Voldemort'sWrath wordplay?
@jafe Nice surface
ahhh I forgot I have to tutor someone in two minutes. bye!
9:57 PM
@bobble See ya!
Seeya :)
North is there anything else I should put to improve my answer to your wall? i.e. anything i missed?
Nope, looks good. I usually wait a little bit before accepting
@Deusovi a good strategy
I can only think of XKCD for comic :P
Q: Sjudoku - in a world where 9 is replaced by 7

Per AlexanderssonSjudoku (sju = seven in Swedish). Rules similar to Sudoku applies: In each disk, the numbers 1,2,...7 should appear exactly once. No line may contain duplicate digits (note that there are lines in 3 directions). Of course, there is a unique solution.

10:01 PM
yes xkcd is the best
xkcd is awesome
Guessing that "comic" or perhaps "comic trump" is the def
one of my favorite xkcd's is 1920
"Multiplayer Avocado" would be a great band name, actually
10:04 PM
Well, well, I almost don't want to say this
@jafe It isn't a ddef of FRAUD is it?
that would be one definition used twice, if i understand your parsing
Bc if I pretended "about" was a splitter... eek
@jafe True
Gonna be difficult to avoid politics with this one :p
10:06 PM
Guessing it's (--S--)
"trump quote" around S
Doesn't have to be about president trump, mind you- maybe it's trump as in victory
True, true
Like "Hurrah" or "yay"?
I was also thinking along the lines of parody or satire for the def
"comic trump"
I've heard "CLOWN" used for both "comic" and "trump" (i.e. clowning on someone)
I saw that too, but couldn't get the wordplay
Plausibly, it could be charades if "comic" is the def and then "trump quote about election's conclusion" is the wordplay
"conclusion" makes me think "ending" indicator
10:14 PM
Hm, not sure if TWI(+S)T works
@Sciborg Right. And about make me think inside
Does "twit" count as Twitter?
ooh, true, "about" could be an indicator
"quote" wrapped around "election's conclusion"?
Might be a specific one word trump quote
That's also four letters long
(comic Biden talking about election's conclusion = BEA(N)O, taking BEAO as a rather dubious homophone of BEAU)
I was thinking more like "Yuge"
10:17 PM
@GarethMcCaughan Oh, I thought you were serious for a moment
@GarethMcCaughan Ahhh
ohhh, COMIC
i getcha
So close
CCCC: Desire to hug friend is capital (7)
awww, that's a cute one
10:20 PM
Well, OBVIOUSLY it's WA(PAL)NT, the capital of Eurasia
I was joking
I'm not even sure that parsing is legal :P
oh, i was about to be like dang :p
Eurasia is not a country, FYI
i know, you just sounded so confident that i believed you completely :p
10:21 PM
i was like "dang, maybe Eurasia IS a country"
I'm not sure if desire acts as the container outside, indicated by "to hug"?
maybe desire + T(friend)O ?
ah yes, tfriendo
@Sciborg virtual hugs!
I will mentally hug all of you and nobody can stop me
nobody wants to stop you
hey msh!
10:27 PM
mental hugs
@Sciborg Close enough. It was "waves generally" for SURF (since "waves" is plural but "waves generally" = "surf").
Ahh, I getcha.
Very good C4 :)
oi, no mental hugging without consent
oops, you're right - is a mental handshake okay?
uh sure i guess?
10:30 PM
Huh, fun fact: Mecca is a synonym of capital, but also is a capital
@GarethMcCaughan I didn't check your dictionary. :-) Seriously, though, I poked around a bit online and found that "Tween 20" and "Tween 80" are surfactants but "Tween" itself is formally just a brand of surfactants, not a surfactant itself. Nonetheless, I also saw that "Tween" itself is used informally to refer to (one? some?) of the Tween surfactants and thus informally "Tween" is a surfactant -- hence my comment that this is an out-of-dictionary definition.
@Deusovi late to the discussion but I pronounce it [dijusoːvi] or [djusoːvi]
hey bobble! :D
I am here until my next tutoring session, which will start anytime now :)
@GarethMcCaughan I think this is KAMPALA (the capital of Uganda) = KAM(PAL)A, with KAMA being the Sanskrit for "desire"
10:34 PM
Nice find
@PrinceNorthLæraðr Turns out this wasn't that far off :P
And now I have to flex my atrophied CC creating muscles, assuming I got that one right
kama is apparently a word in 21 languages
@Sciborg thanks
10:35 PM
@HTM Yup!
dang, Sanskrit for "desire" is the biggest-brain C4
Should've gone to wikipedia's page of capitals and looked for any word with "pal"
@GarethMcCaughan what's OED's (relevant) definition of Tween, please?
Kama as in Kama Sutra, of which you might have heard even with a normal-sized brain :-)
10:37 PM
here i was looking at English words :p
@PrinceNorthLæraðr That's exactly what I did hehe
@msh210 "Any of a class of polyoxyethylene derivatives of fatty acid esters of sorbitan, several of which are extensively used as emulsifiers, solubilizers, and surfactants. Frequently with following numeral to designate the compound in question." With a note saying it's a proprietary name in the UK.
@matt hi (sorry, catching up in some weird order on back-read)
10:38 PM
@GarethMcCaughan thanks. So I guess it is a surfactant according to the dictionary.
(not just a brand)
or at least a kind of surfactant.
leaving again!
yeah... whatever. At least the clue was fair even if the hint wasn't.
10:40 PM
I'm gonna leave in about~ 20 minutes a college I'm looking into is hosting like a virtual event thingy I wanna check out
Sounds like fun :D
@PrinceNorthLæraðr The thing about virtual events, unlike real ones, is that you can be in two places at once.
@msh210 True
Especially true of virtual event thingies.
Very true
Except kinda wanna pay attention, because Idk how good this school's music program is yet
10:42 PM
@Avi bravo
@PrinceNorthLæraðr fair enough :-)
If it's Juilliard, I've heard it's decent.
@msh210 Oh, they're alright
Could be better :P
ya know, it's only JUILLIARD
I've heard a couple pretty famous people graduated from that school
i hear harvard is pretty decent too, come to think of it
could use some improvement but you know how it is
Stanford's also aight
10:45 PM
yale is kinda meh :p
At least it's not Princeton. I heard their program's just mediocre at best
Oh, and don't even get me started on MIT
garbage school, 2/10
2? That's being generous
(Deusovi is gonna kill us lol)
Did Deusovi go to MIT??
10:47 PM
we're gonna get banned
it was nice knowing you
@PrinceNorthLæraðr I hear they like to hunt
Not gonna lie, MIT was my dream reach school when I was applying to colleges and I wanted to go there so bad. I feel bad for insulting it :p
I've heard they like to Bost-in to your house
I didn't think Deusovi was at MIT. He participated in a bunch of MIT-based puzzle hunts but I don't think any part of that requires you to attend the university there.
@GarethMcCaughan Oh, it said so on his profile page for the longest time
But I think MIT puzzle hunts are open to everyone
10:52 PM
really? I'm very confused then, because I thought I knew where he was and it wasn't MIT.
@Deusovi did you go to MIT?
CCCC: According to Google, "loveless love" is an emotional problem? (9)
An old one I had lying around, hopefully it isn't clued terribly (like most of my CCCCs are)
Oh, and it looks like we're doing a love theme now lol
All you need is love

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