yep

This is unrelated but I am happy this chatroom exists, I never popped in until now because I was too shy so it's nice to finally talk to all the puzzle people :)

It's nice to meet you guys lol

welcome!

:)

there's a decent amount of idle chatter here on weekdays

I'll definitely drop in regularly from now on then :)

also, don't miss the CCCC, a cryptic clue series where whoever solves one makes the next.

sounds good! we try to keep this chat pretty friendly

it's over on the right ----->

Ooh I did not see that, thank you for pointing it out!

I have gotten 2 so far

So the goal is just to solve the clue?

yep!

@bobble Two in four years isn't bad! :D

@Sciborg yep, and if you do you get to make the next one

there are some hints for the current one because it's been up for a while

"get to"

I really liked my alicorn clue:

They certainly chose an interesting one

That is a good one Bobble :D

@Sciborg the important word is "make" :)

Seeing the words "beheaded baby" definitely shook me a bit not gonna lie :p

@Mithical two in four months :)

No it doesn't

nvm then

The answer is in the chat history, but you can try to solve it without cheating

I'm reading the Cryptic Clue Guide to see how these work at the moment, so there's a definition and then wordplay to hint at the answer?

exactly!

There are a lot of kinds of wordplay, the trick is figuring out which kind and how it is in the clue

you'll want to familiarize yourself with the notation for cryptic clues

Awesome, I love the idea :)

you should look at jafe's cryptics.

eh, that's common notation, but it's not an important part of learning how to solve

(cryptics = cryptic crosswords)

@Deusovi could come in handy

useful for describing cryptic solutions, but it should come pretty naturally once you understand the overarching structure of cryptic clues

It might take me a bit to learn all of this but I'll try :)

:)

true! just saying it's not strictly necessary because you can explain things in full - don't want to make the process of learning cryptics even harder than it already is!

There are some of my early failures at clues in the chat, but everyone here was really nice until I finally got it

i think cryptics are a lot of fun, but there's a kinda steep initial learning curve. jafe's cryptics could be a good place to start, and i also recommend kegler's cryptics here (the beginner puzzles in particular)

if you have any questions about how clues work, feel free to ask in here! we'd be happy to explain anything you don't get

didn't mean to hit enter yet, oops

Since the chat is so active right now, I'll drop another (hopefully last) hint in hopes of getting my little experiment off the starboard :P

CCCC Hints: 1) The wordplay is unusual 2) The first letter is R 3) The unusual part of the wordplay is that it does something 2x separately, with only one indicator

also @Sciborg we use shorthands for certain users like Deus(ovi), North(Læraðr), Rand(al'Thor), Mith(ical), etc.. just don't call bobble "bob" :)

Ah, thank you. I figured Bobble was Bobble :)

:)

capitalization is fine

@LukasRotter hm, if it's homophones, that's definitely precedented (though i'd say i generally parse it as homophonizing a "green paint"-ish phrase)

any other questions, @sciborg?

I'm still working through the guide and I'm not sure I understand Double Definitions, do you mind explaining?

Like it's just another definition?

yes, for example "river net" = SEINE, because "river" = "net" = SEINE

both definitions should be legal for a regular crossword

Ohhh, that makes sense

"Scooter was blue (5)" is another fun one

You can put more that 2 defintions in one clue, but that's non-standard

"european shine" --> polish (verb) or Polish (demonym)

@Deusovi moped?

yep!

Moped!!! That's clever, I love that one.

This is slowly making sense now I think

good, good!

a lot of the fun in cryptics is when you have to reinterpret things! that clue is also a good demonstration of that - the "blue" there looks like a color, but you need to realize it means "sad" to solve it

I can absolutely see how these are fun to solve, I love the trickery of it

some of the best clues have you completely reinterpreting sentence structure - what looked like a verb becomes an adjective, what looked like a noun becomes a verb...

@sciborg (also we seem to be good at giving homework help)

So @LukasRotter's hint just now is telling us that this clue does something twice separately, but only indicates it once.

@Sciborg exactly

Change commercial fitting -> AD + APT is a favorite one of mine

I officially love this.

@bobble ooh, that's also a good one (though it would need to be "change", not "changes")

typo, not a problem with the clue

you might be interested in our visual and enigmatic-puzzle puzzles

I've always been a wordplay kind of person so I find the whole concept of these just super fun

if you want a math-cryptic hybrid, this puzzle of mine may be interesting to you :)

Oooh that's a cool one!

oh they're a lot of fun! like i said, steep learning curve at first, but once you get into them it's great to be able to reinterpret words in these weird ways

ah, I have the answer to the C4 but I have too much I'm supposed to be doing and not actually doing right now so I'll let someone else get it. I will remark that I don't think the wordplay is actually very unusual.

Gareth just casually dropping his CC skills

Flexing on the noob I see

@Sciborg apparently so :(

hmm, interesting. I thought it was unusual because of the reasons noted in hint 3), obviously I'm also not very familiar with cryptics. I guess rather than helping people with hint 1) I confused them

I was kidding, no worries :p

Can you explain the Sound Clues? Is that where you hint that it's a homophone?

or a spoonerism:

oh, in my guide? yeah, I grouped homophone clues and spoonerisms (a less common type of sound-based wordplay) together

For homophones, mine here:

> The spoonerism clue is similar. A "spoonerism", named after Reverend William Spooner, is a transposal of the starting sounds of two words in a phrase. For instance, the spoonerism of "nook and cranny" is "crook and nanny".

"To those listening" is a homophone indicator, "generously tip" = POUR, "the needy" = POOR

Ahh okay. Deus your guide is awesome, I'm reading it to learn!

make sure to upvote!

Ooh good point I will

So that's why our theory is that "conversationally" might be a sound clue?

yes, because it hints at talking/noises

Now that makes sense :)

you might take a look at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossword_abbreviations as well

Hm

So abbreviation hints go with those?

Oh btw @Sciborg, your [REDACTED] puzzle is very interesting. The more I seem to understand about it, the more I like it. I think I got all of the references and probable meaning of the second signal, but I'm stuck there. (not fishing for hints, just wanted to say)

@LukasRotter Thank you!! I spent a lot of time on it :) I was hoping the reference was stark enough that it would become clear once you found it.

@Sciborg Usually abbreviations are in charades, but you can also use them in other clues types in combination.

rant: my Spanish teacher just said "for this quarter all assignments are due at then end of class (11am) to take pressure off students who procrastinate". that just seems backwards.

I don't mean to procrastinate, but I do push later assignments off when I get swamped with other stuff

makes sense but like if you want to give students less pressure, give them more time! smh

I have one class where all homework is due at the end of the unit, one where all homework is due the next day, and several looming college apps that are due like a month from now

ahh

by the way, I'm shocked that my minesweeper has lasted 2 hours

Is that because people aren't trying, or because it's hard?

as am i, certainly someone would've solved it by now

i've been working on other things

@LukasRotter Because it sounds like you are close to the answer, I will drop a second hint on it to clear up what I think you might be stuck on.

we gave up as soon as we saw deus online :P but with that information things might change

yeah Deus is like the fastest puzzle solver in existence, it's been rumored he has 42 brains /s

I can solve it in like 2 minutes, but then I know all of the deductions

that is technically cheating :P

How dare you solve your own puzzle

to check if the logic is valid

oh also @Sciborg, merrybot and I are the same person, just so you know

That... makes much more sense now lol

giving the puzzle a shot now! looks interesting - i've placed one tetromino, but haven't figured out what looks to be a "big" break-in

oh no

Press F to pay respects to the puzzle that's about to get destroyed by Deus

fffffffffffffffffff

F

F

F

@Deusovi I'm pretty sure I know which tetromino it is, and that one is supposed to be easy :)

figured as much!

ooh just got a neat deduction

yesss

Bass answered, but Deus can still get the check for posting a write-up first

and Deus, Bass didn't spoiler their final grid... don't scroll if you want to solve by yourself

Maybe somebody should edit their answer to spoiler the grid

that was a very nice puzzle!

lots of interesting shape placement logic

I'm reading your writeup and it is super clever on both of your parts, well done :)

Deus' path was EXACTLY the one I intended!

And I so enjoyed how much "can't use 3 Ls" logic there was

now we wait for deus to post a puzzle so someone else can solve it in 15 minutes

yeah, the reuse of that is really neat

hey @avi!

hi

when your translator turns la pasta de dientes into "the pasta of tooth"

Ah yes, the tooth pasta

Just like Mama used to make

ew, disgusting

lol

Did you never have Pasta di Cavity?

Uncultured

non, mon amie - how's that for uncultured?

le Gasp

yes oui

i don't plan on learning french anytime soon

llora en español

haha yes

אולי זה רק אני, אבל פתאום אני מרגיש שקצת קשה להבין מה הולך פה היום... ממש מוזר.

> Maybe it's just me, but suddenly I feel a little hard to understand what's going on here today ... really weird.

אני מסכים עם הצהרה זו

Hebrew?

yep

looks kinda cool and futuristic tbh

i wanna make a font for it

Odd, since the script is ~2,000 years old (or older)

everyone knows that squares = future :P

@Sciborg also when your translator turns "los dedos del pie" into "foot fingers"

AH YES, FOOT FINGERS

That classic snack

UnCuLTuReD

Foot Fingers(tm), Now With Extra Toenail

@matt that reminds me of my favorite insult that I made up

"You're about as cultured as unpasteurized milk!"

excellent

Potential offshoot on that: "I could leave yogurt alone for a couple days and it'd be more cultured than you"

perfection

actually, there is something a little unconventional about the way in which one indicator does multiple things in Lukas's clue. But only a little.

I've been working on his clue for a while to learn how cryptics work and I have a few tentative theories, but my main one got killed when I remembered it started with "R"

(wasn't meaning to show off or flex on the n00b, by the way; to do that, actually giving the solution would be more convincing :-).)

No worries :p

I'm a little bit unclear on what "with" means in these kinds of clues, the example Deus gave (FRES+HEN) made it seem like you're meant to combine two words?

yeah

@Sciborg Out of interest, what was your main theory?

So potentially with this clue, the first part is a homophone and the second part is either a wordplay or a second definition?

I don't know, I'm still not any good at these lol

hey it's fine :) i'm terrible at cc's

(cryptic clues)

brb, gonna make a hebrew font

I guess my current working theory is that if "a wide assortment" is a Second Definition that's meant to be the second half of the word, then the full word could maybe end in -LOT, -MANY or -BUNCH since those seem the most plausible as word endings. But as far as starting with R, that only gives me stuff like REPLOT and REALLOT to be the whole clue, and those don't seem to match.

(this is @matt's other account btw)

But I still don't really know how these work so that could be completely wrong.

Am I way off base?

"a wide assortment" does not clue the second half of the word, no

Conversationally might be the doubler

i mean, it could, but it doesn't in mine

Okay. The "with" threw me off.

because it's a homophone indicator

Double homophone?

yeah

that'd be a bit unusual though

I mean he did say it was unusual

yeah but this is like unusual unusual

So maybe a word like RAIN/REIGN/REIN where it could potentially have two homophones?

might be using a homophone on multiple words at once

Ohhhh

God these are so hard to wrap my brain around

but the first letter being R doesn't really help with homophones

can't think of anything that means dominate that starts with R

"Rule" was suggested earlier

Or "Reign" obviously

but the problem is

is there anything akin to "collection" or "wide assortment" that starts with R

and currently I can't think of anything like that

hm

nor can thesaurus.com

Range?

Like a range of things

that's 2 letters too few

There's a letter rule?

(7)

oh i am dumb

I'm still learning sorry

no need for apologies

and not knowing something yet doesn't make you dumb.

Apparently "The whole enchilada" means "everything" TIL

if you see (4, 6) it means the first word is 4 letters and the second is 6.

time to go around beating people with enchiladas

Ohh, okay. So this is one 7 letter word starting with R.

yes

OH MY GOD WAIT

Rainbow????

:O

you got it

good job!

HOLY SHIT I SOLVED IT

yes!

Reign->rain

I JUST LEARNED HOW TO DO THESE LMAO

you do still need to explain the rest of the wordplay, of course

@GarethMcCaughan You totally got it first though

I didn't post it. No credit for just saying you solved something.

(I mean, yes, I did solve it, but so what?)

noice!

so if i'm not mistaken you get to make the next one

need to explain wordplay first

right

oh god okay so, i have to use the symbol thingies?

just explain the word components

nah. you can if you want, but OK to do it in words

they're not required but you can if you want to

so REIGN (dominate) sounds like "rain", the definition is "a wide assortment" for RAINBOW

"dominate" clues into "reign" obviously and "conversationally" is a sound clue for homophone, and a homophone of "reign" is "rain"

so far so good

the question is, how does BOW get formed

well, you see, you have lots of little water droplets and light reflects off the insides, and different wavelengths of light are refracted different amounts, and so ...

@GarethMcCaughan yes but no

ahhhh

beau -> bow

pretty

yes!

pretty boy, not just pretty

i honestly don't deserve credit for that, Avi talked me through it and got most of it

nah

I would've never gotten this far without you coming up with the solution first

sure you do!

if you want someone to check your clue for legality, share a onetimesecret

What's a onetimesecret?

@LukasRotter - Sciborg solved your c4!

Sciborg and Avi solved it, we have to share that one because Avi got the important bits

I refuse to not let Avi get credit

@Sciborg go to onetimesecret.com and type in a note, then click "create a secret link"

apparently today the solution to a cryptic clue does not count as an important bit.

only one person will be able to access the link

@Sciborg the solution is the most important bit

thus you get the credit

@matt not always

one time we had the solution for like a day

😅 I still think Avi talked me up to that point, it was definitely not a solo solve

before deusovi came in and finally figured out the wordplay lol

But thank you lmao I'm glad I got my first solve

That was a really clever one

@Sciborg onetimesecret.com/secret/e9dj9rltzvx1h8vac0e5azbuch35qxr

google docs link

in any case, congrats @sciborg! now you get to make one, just remember to put the length in (these things) and start it with CCCC

Are you sure I have to make the next one?? I'm terrified

I can collaborate with you to make sure it's solid lol

Please do

I don't want to make a terrible one

in which case, please join the google doc

I made some really terrible ones in chat a while back when I was trying to figure out the rules

We all start out bad :P

I'm the most incompetent person you could ask right now lmao

But I'll try and think of something

What's the google doc link?

join the document

it's an empty document

where we'd be able to design a clue

Ohh like I make one?

ya

exactly!

the fourth "C" is "Chain"

Right but like do I make a doc or is there an existing doc is my point of confusion here

Avi made a doc

there is an existing doc

the link to it is at the other end of that onetimesecret link

above

You'll not be able to top this one

OHHH god I am stupid sorry

(Displayname was me)

more flexing?

"the guy who made that shitty CCCC" is hilarious not gonna lie

yes, I am flexing that I can make the most horrible clue

what was the solution of the cccc lol

lol

wait a sec

so many rules broken here

Ascent[ers]???

ascenders

You had the rules but you chose not to use them

I don't understand either way

I can only stand in awe

ascenders = b, d, f, h, k, l, t

I still don't understand

how are ascenders b, d, f, h, k, l, and t

they have | segments

on top

most lowercase letters fit within a squarish sort of box but some have parts that go down below the baseline ("descenders") or above the usual upper line ("ascenders")

strictly, I think the ascenders are the bits that protrude upwards, not the whole letters

letters with descenders are gjpqy; letters with ascenders are bdfhklt

@sciborg no rush on the cccc, btw, take as long as you need :)

Avi and I are brainstorming in our google doc

@Sciborg nicely done (solving the C4) !

Thanks, I was just as surprised as everyone else! :p