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user61230
8:10 PM
@Oblongamous I'm sorry, I was sleeping.
 
user61230
Okay, look. I'm not going to respond to your conversation. All it amounts to is three people teaming up to give moderators hell and making conclusions and assumptions that I see no or little evidence for.
 
user61230
But I will say this: the site is getting healthier right now. If you, all of you, dump bucketloads of vitriol into it, it will decline.
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user61230
So don't. Stop. If you have constructive things to say, say them. But wagging your finger at us and saying "You screwed up, everything's dead!" when it's clearly and obviously not isn't going to get us anywhere.
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user61230
I'm done here. You have a choice: join constructive discussion, or don't. If you don't, nobody's listening. If you do, maybe we'll get somewhere.
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user61230
cc @randal'thor, @Victor
 
8:44 PM
9 messages deleted
This room was placed in timeout for 1 day; the topic of this room is "General discussion for puzzling.stackexchange.com. Why is this room called The Green Llama? Do you find that puzzling? Well there you go." - conversation should be limited to that topic.
@Oblongamous I just deleted your rant.
And this room is in timeout for a day or until someone feels like discussion here has potential to improve the situation on Puzzling.
Which, to be excruciatingly clear, I don't.
I don't want to tar all of you with the same brush, but I need to make something clear here:
Too many of you are letting your disagreements over policy shoot you in the feet.
I've stayed out of these discussions, and intend to continue doing so, because - quite honestly - I consider this site a joke.
But a good many folks think it has potential, including several people here at Stack Exchange.
That's the kind of support you absolutely want when you're hashing out problems with a site's scope and policy. And you are destroying that support with your childish words and actions.
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Do you want this site to thrive? Do you want it to be a place that you can call your own, with policies that you've helped to construct and a corpus that you've helped to build?
Then stop acting like spoiled children every time there's a disagreement.
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Talk it out, politely, with respect for the opinions of others, even when - especially when - you disagree strongly with them.
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Bring it to meta, hash it out in chat, lead by example on the main site... But always, always with respect for others.
If you cannot do this, then this site has no future.
And if you cannot bring yourself to do this, then none of us will be sad to see it go.
Y'all have 24 hours to think about that before you go shooting your mouths off again.
 
9:20 PM
Meta is really a better place for posting arguments too. A very small portion of the community normally comes to chat. Keep in mind that everyone that has been contributing in to Puzzling is part of the community, not just those in chat.
Nobody is trying to actively sabotage or manipulate the community. There are going to be (and have been) misteps on both sides of the debate, but what is really going to define the success or failure of the community is being able to figure out what works for the community as a whole and giving each other the benefit of the doubt.
 
10:09 PM
Well, I guess now's a better time than ever to add what I can to the wall of text above.
@randal'thor We do indeed have lives, and "trying to kill the site" isn't all we spend our time on. (It's currently finals week for most people, and I've been busy with that, a Boy Scout campout, a piano recital, and tons of other stuff recently.)
But enough about that. I could spend all day commenting on the chat transcript.
I could go on about all the ad hominems, personal attacks, and valueless insulting there's been, but that would just be a repeat of what others have already said (and focusing on the past isn't going to get us anywhere either).
So instead I'll focus on how you—nobody in particular, but just the Puzzling community as a whole—can have actual, intelligent, useful discussions instead of running in circles complaining about everything.
Let's do some mythbusting. Us moderators really aren't typically "special" or different from "ordinary" users in most cases. Jeff refers to ♦s as "human exception handlers". That is, we act as normal users do whenever possible, and only in extreme cases do we have to severely intervene.
For example, one of a moderator's main job is to handle flags. Flags are for those "edge-cases" where the normal mechanisms of voting, closing, commenting, etc. just won't do. We also handle problematic behavior such as spamming or vote fraud.
Similarly, the situation on Puzzling was so egregiously bad before the "Great Meta Post" that somebody had to intervene. Clearly, nobody else wanted to do anything about it.
There was quite a bit of backlash, as we expected. A bit more than we initially thought there would be, in fact. And that's perfectly fine.
But here's what's not fine: All you're doing is moaning about how everything's all wrong, not actually discussing where to go next.
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(You're also doing so in a very disparaging manner, but that's besides the point.)
Complaining about how everyone's destroying everything and accusing everybody of all sorts of things by finding whatever evidence you possibly can (or even none at all) isn't going to get us anywhere.
So what is going to get us places? Having genuine discussions in which both parties actually care about the other side. Assuming good faith, not throwing around bold assertions. And focusing on how to improve the site now, not who to blame for events that happened in the past.
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steps off soapbox
 
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