The Sphinx's Lair - 2021-09-30 (page 2 of 2)

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9:00 AM

upvote straight away lol

"Meanwhile, if we use all of the clues that were shaded (right diagram below), we produce a grid that looks VERY underclued and likely impossible to solve." - it's actually possible to solve ;(

I'm unsure whether the ambiguity in the second-step slitherlink puzzle is (a) an intended mechanism by Avi to help explain 'why the evidence didn't square up', (b) an unintended error that will haunt Avi to his grave, or (c) evidence that I've mucked up with my theory :)

@Avi Oh no! Have I gone down a blind alley?!

yup xD

D'oh! I couldn't spot the 'in' for that one - I'll have a rethink...

(b)

oh, it's super difficult for sure

it's mostly looking for clever contradictions

9:03 AM

?

um still thinking

and it still took me ~ an hour to solve the first time

wait are we talking about the slitherink thats produced with the shaded cells?

Yes

right.

and so avi says its a contradiction

we need to find contradictions in that puzzle?

like, knowing whether something can't be a line

gives you that it will be empty

and such

9:05 AM

hmm

little bits of brute force required at points in the puzzle but uh

what can you do when you have 2 layers

and a specific output shape x.x

I guarantee it's solvable though, I've done it like 3+ times without looking at the solution

so stiv we backtrack

to that slitherink

I've found an 'in' now - let's see what comes out! (Good job I have a day off today...!)

:D

@Stiv whats an 'in'

9:08 AM

A way to break into the puzzle solution

Liek finding the first wall you can actually place

i c

ahh

where is it?

Start by marking as many crosses as you can and see what pops out...

aha

nothing pops...

am i missing something?

Okay, I've solved that one correctly now - just seeing what happens next...

whats it like?

picture?

9:16 AM

well, it's not squaring up, that's for sure

i know right

OH! I think I see what you've done here!

xD

ok i give up trying to solve it faster than stiv :)

I make a lot of subtle puns

@Stevo ya solving faster than stiv is generally quite difficult :P

9:18 AM

Can't quite see what to do with it next yet, but I've definitely netted something :)

uh i managed to solve the slitherlink by myself!! thats an achievement for me

user image

nice job!

whats next?

uh

why not more X marks

um didn't bother

do we need it?

9:22 AM

not really

but if you want to rigorously solve it

ok time to x everything

there's a lot of process of elimination

did you trial and error?

(Don't worry Avi - I've done mine entirely by logical steps with LOTS of X marks and am editing my post...)

<3

ya Stevo if he posts it I think you'll see what I mean :P

9:37 AM

O>O

19

Q: Tic tac toe - Sudoku: A variation in which the centre box defines the layout of the other boxes

I stumbled across this interesting variation of Sudoku the other day and thought I'd give it a try, it has however baffled me and I've been unable to progress past the very early stages. The puzzle comes from the "World Class Puzzles NL" set of daily puzzles, this one published on 2020-04-29 s...

logical-deduction grid-deduction sudoku

apparently somebody had invented the style of sudoku

from my How To Trap Your Moderator

before I invented it

x.x

Answer updated with the correct slitherlink solved (gosh, I didn't half make extra work for myself!)

So far so good

10:06 AM

Can someone print out the net? I need some reference

I feel like it would've been a lot cooler if I made the evidence be based on folding the net, but for now it's just flat...

*for now it's just for making puns

@Anonymus25 sure, I'll print out the net for you. Any website you want me to start with?

2

10:57 AM

@Stevo very epic

2 hours later…

12:44 PM

@msh210 Lol

Forget the net, Im going to start printing the universe

1

Q: Attacking diagonal queens

What is the least number of queens you need to place on the main diagonal of a 8x8 chess board such that every square is under attack?

combinatorics chess

1:27 PM

this is gonna go hnq

I feel it

@msh210 omg I just realized this is a pun

xD

@Avi pretty sure of that

High votes, multiple answers, good ratio for the view count.

Very likely :D

1:44 PM

Anyone care to help me make this answer interactive?

Avi did a great job getting it to where we are :)

I'd like to make it interactive so we don't have to manually search for all of the additional points noted.

I'm currently wiring up some JavaScript to call PokeApi per Pokemon and build a UI; but I need the grid contents reformatted as:

as?

> [ 'Blipbug', 'Azumarill', 'Dracozolt', ... ], // All of row 1.
> [ 'Chimecho', 'Vibrava', 'Centiskorch', ... ], // All of row 2.
and so on

ah

Then I can iterate over it, build a grid (which I just built for the magic square 🙃); then I can build a panel for displaying the API data, which will take a bit more time, but it'll be dynamic and based on data with only the most common stuff at the top.

@Avi you're on the Discord right?

[[Blipbug,Azumarill,Dracozolt,Noctowl,Pineco,Abra,Doublade,Mudsdale,Diggersby,Espurr,Shroomish,Vulpix],
[Chimecho,Vibrava,Centiskorch,Ferrothorn,Machop,Obstagoon,Galarian Meowth,Alcremie,Qwilfish,Shedinja,Heatran,Torkoal],
[Gardevoir,Exeggutor,Cresselia,Decidueye,Herdier,Regirock,Lairon,Bibarel,Gogoat,Eevee,Stantler,Sentret],
[Natu,Hoppip,Bulbasaur,Porygon,Joltik,Trash Wormadam,Galarian Rapidash,Morgrem,Spring Deerling,Amoonguss,Dialga,Milotic],
[Galarian Stunfisk,Volcarona,Zweilous,Octillery,Cherrim,Combusken,Comfey,Shuckle,Blacephalon,Alolan Muk,Simisear,Haxorus],

1:51 PM

Oh snap lol

Noice

Did you just do a replace on | for the table data? lol

I suspect Trash Wormadam will not go so well

@Tacoタコス that plus some manual []'ing

I see that lol

Still needs the single ticks ' though

JS will yell at me for that, but I can do it :D

Thanks for the assist!

oh

sec

do you need right tick

or left tick

` or '

@Avi doesn't even seem to have Wormadam

@Avi 'name', 'name', ...

[['Blipbug, 'Azumarill, 'Dracozolt, 'Noctowl, 'Pineco, 'Abra, 'Doublade, 'Mudsdale, 'Diggersby, 'Espurr, 'Shroomish, 'Vulpix'],
['Chimecho, 'Vibrava, 'Centiskorch, 'Ferrothorn, 'Machop, 'Obstagoon, 'Galarian Meowth, 'Alcremie, 'Qwilfish, 'Shedinja, 'Heatran, 'Torkoal'],
['Gardevoir, 'Exeggutor, 'Cresselia, 'Decidueye, 'Herdier, 'Regirock, 'Lairon, 'Bibarel, 'Gogoat, 'Eevee, 'Stantler, 'Sentret'],
['Natu, 'Hoppip, 'Bulbasaur, 'Porygon, 'Joltik, 'Trash Wormadam, 'Galarian Rapidash, 'Morgrem, 'Spring Deerling, 'Amoonguss, 'Dialga, 'Milotic'],

1:55 PM

I think if it's not found I'll just input the name

@Tacoタコス oof, that's only gen 4

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Wormadam_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

like so

mebbe just print the ones for which it can't find anything

if it's too many find a new api lol

Getting data back :D

Was missing a forward slash lmao

user image

2:24 PM

nice

Since the fetch is async I have to stage the data first lol

2:40 PM

maybe post source code as a github gist if it's elegant enough :P

@bobble yo

not quite sure that the queens puzzle needed a mathematical argument?

5

Q: Attacking diagonal queens

What is the least number of queens you need to place on the main diagonal of a 8x8 chess board such that every square is under attack?

mathematics combinatorics optimization chess

this puzzle to be precise - not sure the mathematics tag was needed

or even, appropriate

it's just that the best answer happened to include a math-flavor argument, but even so it's not explicitly written out in math form

anyways, just my 2 cents

@Stiv Amoz asked you to solve my magnum opus puzzle; have you got to it?

@Avi

undefined Galarian Meowth
undefined Trash Wormadam
undefined Galarian Rapidash
undefined Spring Deerling
undefined Galarian Stunfisk
undefined Alolan Muk
undefined Farfetch'd
undefined Mimikyu
undefined Galarian Weezing
undefined Pumpkaboo

Also what's the best way to post a metapuzzle? All at once or as and when I have the individual puzzles?

Lol

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pumpkaboo_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

not sure what their problem is with irrbis

2:54 PM

Not sure

Prolly gonna trim the name to get the bulbapedia link for those and add them as an anchor tag with the original puzzle name

@ParclyTaxel If it's a metapuzzle that involves a significant amount of work (e.g., more subpuzzles) in each subpuzzle, post the subpuzzles separately. Otherwise, you can post them as part of an overarching puzzle (for example as in puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/65270/…)

Pokemon has gotten complex:

> Whether or not it must be raining in the overworld to cause evolution this Pokémon species.

XD

yeah there are some of those

generally not relevant to any measure of competitive though

what are those doctors clickbait titles like?

@Tacoタコス I can also tell you, having been into Pokémon, that Inkay only evolves into Malamar upon turning the device upside-down

even in pokemon go

and recently they had a controversy about that because some players' phones were too outdated to have gyroscopes

so they couldn't evolve inkay

@ParclyTaxel also, hello, and welcome :)

3:06 PM

@Avi I've been in PSE for a while. My home Stack is mathematics, though

@ParclyTaxel TF?! lol

I stopped playing after Emerald version (though I did play let's go pickachu)

sad

they never brought back a proper battle frontier

nor the dupe glitch

proper shame

also check this out

it's amazing

46

Q: Recognizing a Metapuzzle

Creator's note: This puzzle was meant to be released in April 2017 for the metapuzzles fortnightly topic challenge. As you can see, it is currently over a year late. Real-life events interfered, and the scale of the project kept growing. It's finally out now, though, so I hope you enjoy! Metapuz...

enigmatic-puzzle metapuzzles

4:03 PM

user image

@Avi

:D

Getting closer :)

ooh

pretty

highlight all the pokemon whose name starts with P

or maybe represent them all with images yanked from bulbapedia lololol

codepen.io/tacosontitan/live/ac04aac9f2302ad97c0a2a51d7e0e90e

It's not responsive

And the data isn't visible yet, but getting there :D

Having to bounce back and forth with it

C4 hint: If, in the course of solving, you come across some people named Kirsty and Alan, then you had a good start but are barking up the wrong tree.

(If you didn't, then that hint probably didn't help you at all.)

xd

agreed

Well, it didn't help me at all. (Except, of course that the burn rest and the wrong tree I might have been barking up but didn't both could be ashes.)

4:33 PM

@Avi I added it because combinatorics was on

We likely need to evaluate the "Use with [mathematics]" part of the combinatorics tag.

The example given for the tag doesn't require any mathematical arguments.

Neither does the chess puzzle

Not saying it doesn't fit right now

It does fit on the "Use with [mathematics]" criteria

But we should probably think about removing or redefining that statement

user image

Well, I got sprites now lol

4:59 PM

... with tooltips?

You did add tooltips, right?

user image

5:20 PM

Slowly working on it lol

@Tacoタコス the example given is literally a classic combinatorics example, and combinatorics is a branch of mathematics... not seeing where it's not mathematics.

@bobble I'm saying it's simple enough that mathematics isn't required to solve it

Probably falls back to our previous conversation though

Probably good etiquette to prove it

As in including mathematical arguments for it.

Is counting not mathematics?

The method of solving is counting, and combinatorics is a sub-field of math developed to count things in a formal mathy way. Thus, it's math.

I guess the main problem comes from it not really being a combinatorics puzzle

so therefore also not really being a math puzzle

just asking "find the best setup"

obviously it smacks of n-queens but it's not quite the same

but I would be fine with it being combinatoric

Well, if it's not a combinatorics puzzle then the tag shouldn't have been applied

5:34 PM

because it's at least tangentially related

whereas math is more a 2-degrees-of-relation distance away

21

Q: Queens attacking exactly one queen

What is the most number of black and white queens that you can place on a standard 8x8 chess board, such that each queen attacks exactly one opponent queen?

combinatorics chess

I trust the the OP to know what kind of puzzle they have, and if they say it's combinatorics I'll tag as such

here's another example of a chess puzzle being combinatoric and not math

It's likely just chess optimization.

If I had caught that one I would have added mathematics

user image

5:35 PM

PRO

Added the tooltips

Building the data modal

@Tacoタコス I think that would be the best combination of tags for now

not sure why combinatorics is being uh

limited to the counting definition

Chess in itself is combinatorial

* the enumeration (counting) of specified structures, sometimes referred to as arrangements or configurations in a very general sense, associated with finite systems,
* the existence of such structures that satisfy certain given criteria,
* the construction of these structures, perhaps in many ways, and
* optimization: finding the "best" structure or solution among several possibilities, be it the "largest", "smallest" or satisfying some other optimality criterion.

according to wikipedia

A puzzle related to mathematical facts and objects, whose solution needs mathematical arguments. General mathematics questions are off-topic but can be asked on Mathematics Stack Exchange.

so math tag does require a solution with mathematical arguments

whereas a combinatorics problem does not necessarily require mathematical arguments, as long as you can provide an optimal solution

obviously, the trickier problems can require some level of math

But to prove it optimal the puzzle should require some combinatorics

We're going in circles of the definitions/tag usages

5:38 PM

yes but not mathematics

And combinatorics is mathematics

despite combinatorics being a subfield of mathematics

I believe the math tag is intended to apply to problems with a heavier mathematical nature

than just "yeah this won't work if you do it this way"

I am saying that applying the combinatorics tag is supposed to only be on puzzles which would require combinatorics to solve, and since combinatorics is mathematics the tag guidance is accurate

But that puzzle doesn't require combinatorics to solve it

You seem to be using as something closer to a theme tag

5:40 PM

combinatorics can include "the existence of such structures that satisfy certain given criteria"

mathematics can include basically anything math-related

even tangentially

I was near the same answer with nothing more than visual inspection

it's too broad, so it's better to apply the tag judiciously

e.g. drawing on the board

But the point is to prove it, not just go "this looks good"

And we're back at yesterday

is the point to prove it, though

"What is the least number of queens you need to place on the main diagonal of a 8x8 chess board such that every square is under attack?"

let's say it's 5

a good answer would show that it can't be less than 5

and it can do that using combinatorics through brute forcing

instead of combinatorics through mathematical reasoning

5:43 PM

But brute force is not what we want!

but it is

in this case

I give up.

it literally is not worth the time

for a solver to "combinatorially" prove something that's visible to the naked eye

providing intuitions and logic is great for readers/future solvers

but, in this case it's not even strictly necessary to provide a proof

The accepted answer is brute force with reasoning; it starts with 8 and removes elements in a guided fashion until no more can be removed. That's educated brute force.

right

and that's all the puzzle really calls for

it's not like, grid-deduction or logical-deduction where the key elements of a solution are the deductions

5:48 PM

I won't beat the dead horse though. I don't think we need to be strict strict on tags.

Strict enough to enforce common consensus, but not so strict that it takes away from the fun in things.

we don't, but it generally helps site quality to uh

not have certain puzzles miscategorized

like, if I came to see math, I came to see elegant, unintuitive, fun, and/or brilliant maths

There are plenty of users that don't participate in chat or meta, that don't know or care about the etiquette surrounding types of puzzles. They'll come in and find the answer and post it. If the author or community doesn't like the answer, they'll vote and let us know.

@Avi you're likely also more inclined to go to MSE for that than here

yeah the second they added the math tag all the upvotes stopped :P

Here would be more of a curiosity for you

@Tacoタコス that has the traditional maths

this place has some very interesting problems sometimes

5:51 PM

@Avi well, more of SO for math lol

If you have a "problem" and need help

yup

Here you can create the problem for others to solve

That's the fun in it

But if you're looking for serious math answers to a problem you created, you're not likely posting it here

I dunno

right

I wanna make a beautiful pokemon grid lol

and I'm looking for fun maths

like this one :o

76

Q: Can you fold a square into a square of one-fifth the area?

I love origami, and it recently gave me an idea for a very hard but beautiful puzzle. I'm really curious whether anyone here can solve it. So here's the puzzle. You are given a large perfectly square piece of paper with no marks on it. With this square, you have to make a square of exactly one-fi...

mathematics visual geometry dissection

41

Q: Polynomial game with Devil

You die, and awake in Hell. Satan awaits you, and has prepared a curious game. On a blackboard, he has written the polynomial $x^2+x+666$. He explains the rule: On each day at $12$ noon, you must either increase or decrease the coefficient of $x$ by $1$, and a minute after, Satan will either inc...

mathematics strategy game

also very nice

alright I'm going to head out - cheers

AncientSwordRage

6:07 PM

@Tacoタコス let me find this so I can down vote it...

I hope that's a joke?

It's a good answer

AncientSwordRage

If it's just brute force then I would disagree

> If the author or community doesn't like the answer, they'll vote and let us know.

@AncientSwordRage purely on brute force?

Did you read it at least? lol

user image

@Avi ^ Added type info

6:34 PM

user image

Swapped to nicer sprites and changed background to improve visibility of types

7:04 PM

What I was thinking is add some kind of filter

so all the ones with that type (or other trait) will have their background change to bright orange temporarily

7:25 PM

Added an initial release of the interactive version to the wiki answer

@Avi Oh we can certainly add some more features

I don't think it's anywhere near done

I just have to run some errands and it's stable enough to let others use it now, so I wanted to get it pushed out

Dropped my chatroom link in the answer so we don't get comments or answers providing feedback or attempting to collab

The Taco Truck 🌮

Enter with caution; this chat room contains spoilers and is sp...

AncientSwordRage

@Tacoタコス I'm still reading (I got waylayed) but my quick impression is that a) the answers are using informed/logical trial-and-error which is fine, b) the question is in no way combinatorial. They just want one combination of queens, not all valid ones

That's what Avi and I were trying to say earlier

AncientSwordRage

7:41 PM

@Tacoタコス bobble is still right about not editing the tags for the user. I'm going to leave a comment when I have free time (hahah what is free time 😜)

@AncientSwordRage I dunno lol

ABout the free time part

Speaking of which

I gotta go for now lol

2

Q: NASA analyzing message from space

$\hskip3in$Newsflash Since our space probes and radio beams first plumbed the cosmos, mankind has sent into the void numerous notices describing our location. Today NASA announced the recovery of a golden object that crashed into the ocean yesterday from space. Scientists assume it has been produ...

knowledge enigmatic-puzzle visual story

1 hour later…

8:47 PM

meowth-galar
wormadam-trash
rapidash-galar

also deerling-spring at weird url pokeapi.co/api/v2/pokemon-form/585

stunfisk-galar

muk-alola

farfetchd (Actually spelled Farfetch'd but for some reason the URL is different)

mimikyu-disguised

weezing-galar

pumpkaboo-average

I think that's all the api endpoints for the undefineds

I'll give them a try :D

galarian forms are name-galar, alolans are name-alola

farfetchd eliminated the ' for some reason

Pumpkaboo has sizes (Small, Average, Large, and Super Size)

Mimikyu has a disguised state and a state with disguise broken (that can't be caught in the wild)

deerling has an endpoint at deerling

it also has an endpoint at a weird url that's form-specific

wormadam-trash wormadam-sandy and wormadam-plant should be the endpoints for wormadam

Sounds like if there's a space, I need to split on it and move the first word to the end, inserting a dash

Replace ' with empty string

uh

I'll look at it shortly :)

8:55 PM

Galarian Stunfisk -> stunfisk-galar

so not precise transformations

Oh, good catch

might as well just include the option for a delimiter

like name | endpoint

So some truncation needed

and if present, split on it

display the left, lookup from the right

I can do if (Galarian) galar

Wouldn't be hard

8:57 PM

your choice ;)

At this point I'm trying to be simple with the code

Spent too much time on it already lol

ya

i'm gonna uh

try to do my AI hw because I've been procrastinating too long

xd

If you want you can pull the repo and modify some of the code too :D

@Avi I'm waiting on my unit tests and writing a new puzzle :)

Decided to take a break from the pokemon grid for a bit

nice

There's a fair amount of info already provided with what you did in the wiki and the interactive puzzle that's been added.

8:58 PM

yup

user image

Loved that color combo so I'm using it lol

Also created a template that allows me to build a grid of N size with just an array of arrays

Up to 15 that is

Visual styles can be tedious

Plus, I likely won't ever write anything bigger than 15x15

That in itself is pretty monstrous

225 squares is a lot of info lol

yup

9:23 PM

Oh this is agonizing lol

I'm sure Deusovi will solve it in under an hour

9:52 PM

for real

could be a type-based connect wall

or odd-type-out or something

The pokemon puzzle?

> Let's see... so placing a letter, requires payment to the adjacent tiles, on the immediate outer band, within the grid.

I had to think about that several times to get it there lol

10:12 PM

0

Q: When a Cube Loves a Circle

Align the center of a unit cube to the origin, and one of its long diagonals to the z-axis. In terms of r and h, what proportion of the circle {x^2 + y^2 = r^2, z = h} is inside the cube?

mathematics geometry three-dimensional

@Sphinx Looks like a text-book problem to me. (albeit a bit tough)

agreed

10:57 PM

the wrong tree in the c4 is M_+C_G+E_E, which fits so well that i suspect "barking up the wrong tree" means something else than what you'd expect

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Sep '2130

The Sphinx's Lair

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