The Sphinx's Lair

M Oehm

6:00 PM

How does fiction fit in? A novel is neither an opinion nor a fact.

n_palum

@Deusovi D:

But fiction could be a lie, therefore a fact in the mind of the deceiver

Deusovi

@MikeQ That's not true. All statements are opinions, facts, or falsehoods, but questions are not statements.

Mike Q

That's just your opinion.

And is therefore not a fact.

n_palum

Lol

Mike Q

Actually, MOehm has a good point. Fiction isn't fact, but it isn't an opinion or question either.

n_palum

6:05 PM

@BeastlyGerbil Tryna show us up on Marius' question? Readability and conciseness is important to :P

Sconibulus

but Fiction is clearly a falsehood

Sphinx

0

Q: Pirate Puzzle Double Twist

Five pirates, fresh from their first bout of pillaging, return to their island base to celebrate and divide up the treasure. While this was their first time working together, the start of what they all hoped would be a long and profitable partnership, they were all well versed in the habits and ...

Mike Q

Not necessarily. A fiction novel exists, then it factually exists, and is therefore not an opinion.

Deusovi

We're not talking about the existence of a novel, we're talking about its contents.

Mike Q

The contents exist too. Factually.

n_palum

6:08 PM

Fact of the matter is that facts can be argued factual or not. That's just my opinion though. And if you disagree, well, you're wrong.

Deusovi

We're talking about the contents' accuracy, not their existence.

Mike Q

Alright, that's it. I demand a new logical semantic framework.

Deusovi

I think you're the only one confused here, and that's because you're not making a distinction between the map and the territory.

n_palum

Sure, map and territory, but what about the terrain and borders?

Mike Q

All things are either: fact, opinion, question, fiction, or "other". There are no superpositions.

Sid

6:10 PM

There is a distinction between Map and territory?

Deusovi

@MikeQ Well that's a lot different from your previous statements.

Mike Q

Is that a fact?

Deusovi

Yes.

11 mins ago, by Mike Q

Fact: All things that are not opinions are, by process of elimination, facts.

Mike Q

Classify that statement as "other".

Deusovi

What is "other" to you? Of course everything fits into a set of categories if one of those categories is "other".

Sconibulus

6:12 PM

@MikeQ I find your opinion in question

Deusovi

Also, what about "Isn't this book the best?"?

Mike Q

The set of labels {fact, opinion, question, fiction, other} is mapped to numeric digits, keeping in mind that the map is not the territory. With this distinct symbolic logic we can invent a Turing-complete system that can confuse itself faster than any human.

Deusovi

That's an opinion, stated as a question.

Sconibulus

I'd like to believe that a human's natural state is confused

4

it explains why we go 'wait, what? Why?' so damn often

Sid

I didn't get an answer. What is the difference between map and territory?

Mike Q

6:14 PM

If so, then a machine that can achieve super-human levels of confusion, must also therefore be more natural than a human.

Deusovi

@Sid The territory is the physical landscape - the map is the piece of paper that tells you what the physical landscape looks like.

Sid

Well, yeah, how are they different? The map simply tells you that you control this amount of territory.

Mike Q

Well there's your problem @deus. Your maps aren't to scale.

Beastly Gerbil

@n_palum :P (Seriously though, does it need better formatting?)

Sconibulus

the territory is what's actually there, the map is how you talk about it

Deusovi

6:15 PM

@Sid The physical object "the map" is not the same thing as the physical object "the territory".

Sconibulus

and you have different maps for different contexts

Deusovi

^

Scon explained the metaphor better than I could.

Mike Q

If a territory is dimensions X x Y, then the map should also be dimensions X x Y. Otherwise you get a loss of precision.

Sconibulus

political maps for organization, those ones with the lines for elevation/geography

different maps for where various animal species live

n_palum

@BeastlyGerbil Meh you'll be fine. Just looks dense

Beastly Gerbil

6:17 PM

k i'll seperate it up a bit

Sid

Ah, that sort of map.

Sconibulus

watersheds and stuff

Sid

I prematurely assumed that you just meant political map where countries show the territories they have in control.

Sconibulus

all of those things are describing information that can be found in the territory, but are not themselves the territor

n_palum

I don't think splitting more will help. It's just a lot of information

Beastly Gerbil

6:18 PM

hmmm...

maybe some other format than bullet points then

Sconibulus

It's a pretty common metaphor for Quantum Mechanics, and why it's counterintuitive at times

whatever is actually going on there, we don't really have a map for, but we do have maps that work ok in certain contexts

and we're trying to come up with experiments that work to resolve areas where our maps are foggier, to improve them

Mike Q

You could try mapping a fog.

Sphinx

0

Q: A very unique Web Question

I got this link from a friend of mine, it's supposed to be really hard to understand. Could you help me get the hidden text? https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/csh-static/all_your_base/04d6afa880b76ca48e21ec43094a7ddb31e552fcb0ca7b931e2837f66b249629.html

enigmatic-puzzle

Mike Q

Uh oh. This new question smells like flags.

n_palum

^

@BeastlyGerbil again bullets aren't the issue, it's just a lot of information

Beastly Gerbil

6:24 PM

@mikeq why?

unless you think its a certain user

n_palum

I was just concerned because of the link only.

Surprised you clicked it.

Beastly Gerbil

I recognise the address

amazonaws is safe

n_palum

Didn't know

Sconibulus

is it?

I thought you could put pretty much anything up there

Mike Q

Ditto with Scon. No domain is guaranteed safe.

Deusovi

6:26 PM

^^

and amazonaws is a webhost - it lets you host whatever

including unsafe things

Beastly Gerbil

ah

didn't know that

oh well...

Mike Q

Well, anyhow. It's tagged "enigmatic" but probably should have the steg tag instead

Also the file is a ".gif.jpg", for anyone interested in trying to solve it.

n_palum

enigmatic is like the default for "idk what this is"

Sconibulus

It probably can't be solved on this site

Mike Q

But the enigmatic-puzzle tag says what what the enigmatic puzzle tag means.

The goal of the puzzle is "Get the hidden text from the image." Is that not explicitly a steganography puzzle?

Beastly Gerbil

6:30 PM

yep its stego

Mike Q

So is it stego and enigmatic, or just stego?

Beastly Gerbil

both I'd say

Mike Q

Hmm. With that reasoning, then would most (if not all) steganography puzzles also qualify as enigmatic puzzles?

Beastly Gerbil

nah

there is a difference

n_palum

Many start as enigmatic and reveal the steg tag later as having it from beginning would give it away

Beastly Gerbil

6:33 PM

enigmatic is where we have to work out what to do, stego is where we have to find the hidden text

Mike Q

Is there more to it? If not then I don't see how most puzzles are enigmatic and/or steganography, just by default.

Beastly Gerbil

some stegos we know what to do, others we don't which is where they combine

Mike Q

Hm, okay... what's an example of a stego puzzle where "what to do" is obvious (and so it is not enigmatic)? As in, it's explicitly stated in the question, or you can easily derive it from the puzzle instructions.

Beastly Gerbil

generally if the op provides a hint (explicit or not) on the stego method its not enigmatic

if no hint provided: enigmatic

Mike Q

Actually, that reminds me: Should questions have hints included?

Or, better put: Should a puzzle be solvable without any hints?

Beastly Gerbil

6:38 PM

depends on the type of puzzle really...

e.g. a crossword doesn't need hints on how to solve

nor does a cryptic clue'

but stegos and ciphers usually need hints

Mike Q

But in that case, should it be included in the puzzle and not as a hint?

I am assuming that "hint" means secondary, separate information.

For example, when I see older puzzles where nobody made progress until ample hints were given, it makes me question whether the puzzle was originally solvable in the first place, and in turn, whether it was a bad puzzle.

n_palum

Usually, Hints are supposed to come into play when it's been a while and they want to help

Beastly Gerbil

@n_palum edited, better?

n_palum

If a hint is fundamentally important to the solving of the puzzle, then it is not a hint and should be included in the question.

Beastly Gerbil

^

Mike Q

6:44 PM

That was how I understood it

n_palum

@BeastlyGerbil Bit better

I'm not saying it is bad

I was just saying my first instinct was to ignore it because I didn't feel like reading it all

Beastly Gerbil

yeah I know. I've tried to split it up a bit

Too much info in one block isn't good for eyes

n_palum

Too much info as a whole is hard on the eyes

Talal_Sharaa

7:56 PM

Just saw an R capital hidden in David Starkey's steganography pic!

n_palum

@Talal_Sharaa Welp, if you can find an A we can make TARGET PRACTICE

Talal_Sharaa

near the perks but not sure how to upload the photo here

yeah trying to find more letters

Beastly Gerbil

click 'edit' to get T

that been found yet?

Talal_Sharaa

I just literally flipped my head upside down and saw the R by coincidence lol

Yeah we found it earlier

Forklift

8:22 PM

I highlighted the R for you. Very hard to see. Nice spotting.

n_palum

Maybe it's meant to be TARGET PRACTICE somehow

Forklift

hmm, sounds like your job could be a target, yes

Beastly Gerbil

being target practise is not my dream job though

Forklift

I'd need to see the benefits package. wfh is nice.

Deusovi

"early retirement"

yeah, I bet

n_palum

8:26 PM

Lol

Well, without that A, there's not a lot of anagram words

Deusovi

have we used the phone number?

Hey, it's @Emrakul! :D

Beastly Gerbil

emraks back

n_palum

No we haven't used it yet, and it's important

user61230

'eyo!

Deusovi

How's everything going over at Lit?

Forklift

8:28 PM

someone did the math. it adds to 20, letter T

Deusovi

oh right, literally multiplying it and subtracting

user61230

Pretty well! Reasonably drama-free, things chugging along... fairly healthily actually!

Deusovi

Sounds great :D

Beastly Gerbil

leading 0 :/

n_palum

Oh yeah I think it's just the T

Forklift

8:29 PM

one of 3 Ts

n_palum

@Emrakul I'm heading over right now to stir up trouble

Beastly Gerbil

@Emrakul personally I think its slowed down slightly, but all the issues seem to have been sorted out

user61230

@n_palum Eheheheh................ [narrows eyes]

user61230

@BeastlyGerbil Yeah. There are still a few lingering questions, but we need time and more data to really address them.

n_palum

Woosh

Beastly Gerbil

8:30 PM

I'm trying to get to 4k so I can have 'trusted user' tools :P

Never had em before

@Randal'Thor I still don't understand how you have 11k while the next highest is 5k and after that 4/3k ...

Forklift

It's subtle, but the A in the title is slightly bigger and drops below the line. I believe that is the final letter

user61230

Rand answers a lot of the questions on the really popular stuff.

n_palum

@Forklift The actual title or the flyer's title

Forklift

flier

it looks below the W

n_palum

Eh it doesn't look any more out of place than the Y or D or J

Forklift

8:34 PM

A for asterisk?

eeeew

Still feels reachy

...yeah...

Also for anyone who was trying Hugh's puzzle.. Mike and I thought it had to do with Hobbes and maybe the Levithan but apparently there's no issue in the title. And he's not who we are after

Beastly Gerbil

hugh is too clever for me

n_palum

8:37 PM

It says stega but idk what

Talal_Sharaa

9:03 PM

Well, right now I have no idea on the missing A... Other than (2a) in hex is actually * will investigate more

Beastly Gerbil

night all

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